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[Foreign Jackass]

The original post was kind of crazy since (as impirius pointed out), the "extra buttons" aren't terribly functional during gameplay.

With that said, I personally feel that modern game controllers are overly complex. The number of buttons and control sticks is daunting enough, but when you have to combine them in various ways in realtime during a game, it can be overwhelming. From an HCI theory point of view, controllers do exploit certain types of natural mappings (button = take action, stick = indicate direction), but including things like buttons that are triggered by pushing on sticks is a lousy design idea.

I know that a lot of people here are going to think I'm crazy (or weaksauce, or both) for thinking that controllers are too complex when most of you have zero problems using them. However, I also suspect that it's easier to master something complex when you learn it for the first time, rather than learning something simple and progressing to something complex. When I was growing up, most controllers had a single D-pad and 2-6 buttons. When I got back into gaming as an adult, I did well with games that had simpler control systems, but struggled with more complicated ones because my learned muscle memory didn't help me juggle, say, using a second analog stick to manipulate a camera. Same thing with FPS games -- I learned how to play them on a PC, but simply cannot adapt to console controls, even though it's basically the same thing.

The problem with making controls simpler is that you do necessarily limit the number of options you have during gameplay. A simple controller which requires complex, precise actions to cause different results (see: Street Fighter) is also very hard to learn. It's a tough design problem...but I do wish that games would have simpler controls and provide more contextual options (e.g. knife at close range, shoot at long range, rather than having separate buttons for each).

Very smart post. Thanks. I know my OP made it seem like I was talking about this gen in particular, but I think I made my point clearer afterwards, and I'm in agreement with you over everything you said. Finally, a smart human being.

 

[PantherLotus]

If we can make this thread even slightly serious, he does have a small point. And that is the generally hard-to-approach level of next-gen gaming. Imagine your mom playing Gears of War and you get the idea.

Not saying that less buttons are the solution, but still.

I think eventually we will get to the point where points on our body become the real buttons in a game, and we will be one step closer to the wonderful holodecks of Star Trek fame.

And truthfully, I wish that I could play games with PS3-level graphics and with Wii control. I really do think that motion control (in-game hand manipulation) is the future, where our minds are our greatest obstacles to overcome, not what we can do with our hands.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

And truthfully, I wish that I could play games with PS3-level graphics and with Wii control. I really do think that motion control (in-game hand manipulation) is the future, where our minds are our greatest obstacles to overcome, not what we can do with our hands.

AVATAR IDENTIFIED

AGENDA DETECTED

GAF HOMING IN FOR THE KILL

 

[mckmas8808]

No man, Campster is saying that only with the power of Wii mote can we all enjoy mainstream titles such as Wii Sports.

But isn't that incorrect?

 

[Razoric]

If we can make this thread even slightly serious, he does have a small point. And that is the generally hard-to-approach level of next-gen gaming. Imagine your mom playing Gears of War and you get the idea.

Not saying that less buttons are the solution, but still.

I think eventually we will get to the point where points on our body become the real buttons in a game, and we will be one step closer to the wonderful holodecks of Star Trek fame.

And truthfully, I wish that I could play games with PS3-level graphics and with Wii control. I really do think that motion control (in-game hand manipulation) is the future, where our minds are our greatest obstacles to overcome, not what we can do with our hands.

Why do you people care if older people can / can't play video games? Does this really concern you this much? Has Nintendo PR burned this into your brain?

There are plenty of complex mainstream titles out there. Could you imagine your mom playing World of Warcraft? Grand Theft Auto? etc? No. Why would you want to?

 

[mckmas8808]

If we can make this thread even slightly serious, he does have a small point. And that is the generally hard-to-approach level of next-gen gaming. Imagine your mom playing Gears of War and you get the idea.

Not saying that less buttons are the solution, but still.

I think eventually we will get to the point where points on our body become the real buttons in a game, and we will be one step closer to the wonderful holodecks of Star Trek fame.

And truthfully, I wish that I could play games with PS3-level graphics and with Wii control. I really do think that motion control (in-game hand manipulation) is the future, where our minds are our greatest obstacles to overcome, not what we can do with our hands.

I don't want my mom to play Gears of War. WTF guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should we lower our expectations of great complex games to our ****ing moms that's close to or over 50 years old to play GEARS OF WAR??

My mom wouldn't play Gears of War if it could be played with one button. Sheesh you guys are very very short sighted in this thread.

 

[SuperPac]

I sort of agree. It's always a bit daunting when I download a demo from XBL and it only gives you the button layout during the loading screen and everything on the controller (including pressing in the analog sticks) does something different. Makes me not want to bother, almost.

 

[davepoobond]

it depends on how the developer making the game presents the controls, not how many buttons are on the controller

virtua tennis uses 2 buttons and that's it. wtf is the point of proclaiming for less functionality in a controller resulting in only limiting the type of games that can come about because of it?

the buttons are in different places, and different configurations. a game that uses only shoulder buttons is going to act differently than a game that only uses the face buttons.

for making such a big deal about taking off rumble, i'd imagine people would make even more of a stink about losing freaking buttons.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Meh. I never count the d-pad as a button at all. I guess technically it is, but directions are different than actions to me.

same. but with the wiimote its a bit different. on the other controllers, you cannot push the d-pad while using the analog sticks. but since the wiimote itself acts as an anolog stick, i would say it works as separate buttons as well.

 

[stalker]

However, I also suspect that it's easier to master something complex when you learn it for the first time, rather than learning something simple and progressing to something complex. When I was growing up, most controllers had a single D-pad and 2-6 buttons. When I got back into gaming as an adult, I did well with games that had simpler control systems, but struggled with more complicated ones because my learned muscle memory didn't help me juggle, say, using a second analog stick to manipulate a camera.

I completely agree with this statement, an also with most of the rest of his post (especially the Wii part).
I am also a gamer who "came-back" to consoles as an adult, an I had (and still have) problems adapting to the complexity of the "standard" controllers we use today.
Some of you guys may call me a weaksauce for that if you wish, ok, but let's play some Ghost'nGoblins first ;-)

 

[mckmas8808]

I completely agree with this statement, an also with most of the rest of his post (especially the Wii part).
I am also a gamer who "came-back" to consoles as an adult, an I had (and still have) problems adapting to the complexity of the "standard" controllers we use today.
Some of you guys may call me a weaksauce for that if you wish, ok, but let's play some Ghost'nGoblins first ;-)

You are weaksauce. Go buy some Xbox arcade games or something. Let me ask you this question.

Did it make you mad when Sony took rumble out of the PS3 controller?

 

[Razoric]

I completely agree with this statement, an also with most of the rest of his post (especially the Wii part).
I am also a gamer who "came-back" to consoles as an adult, an I had (and still have) problems adapting to the complexity of the "standard" controllers we use today.
Some of you guys may call me a weaksauce for that if you wish, ok, but let's play some Ghost'nGoblins first ;-)

It seems you have a problem with 3D games in general rather than a distaste for controllers. Why not play some Xbox Live arcade titles, Katamari Demancy, etc and see if you still think it's complex.

What games are hard for you anyway? Rainbow Six?

 

[Campster]

Why do you people care if older people can / can't play video games? Does this really concern you this much? Has Nintendo PR burned this into your brain?

There are plenty of complex mainstream titles out there. Could you imagine your mom playing World of Warcraft? Grand Theft Auto? etc? No. Why would you want to?

There are lots of reasons to care, kid. First of all, if you're at all interested in games as a medium (and you're probably not, but bear with me here) it is imperative that we expand our audience outside of the 18-32 year old upper middle class male. Comic books fell into this trap years ago, and look where they ended up. They're just now (barely) starting to recover.

Second of all, why should we (as I've previously stated) act like elitist assholes who are somehow entitled to this form of entertainment, while people without the time, the money, skill, or knowledge of convention need to only sit and watch as we enjoy ourselves? It's great that games like Civilization, Metal Gear Solid, and World of Warcraft exist. But their existence shouldn't be mutually exclusive with the creation of games that aren't so deep that they appeal to a hyper-niche audience.

Third of all, while our market is growing, it's not growing anywhere nearly as quickly as development costs are. Things are getting less and less sustainable. Games cost somewhere between $8 and $15 million this generation, and they don't look to be going anywhere but up. We need to attract more people to this industry.

Your mom would never play GTA, sure. But if the only way you can picture the medium is in GTA or World of Warcraft clones, I think you've drastically underestimated it.

 

[Buffy4ever]

i swear i was thinking about the same thing 2 days ago. :lol

atari 1
nes 2
sms 2
genesis 3
snes 6
genny arcade 6
saturn 6
playstation 8?
n64 8?
dreamcast 8
ps2 10 (analog clicks) plus d pad
xbox 8? plus d pad
360-8 plus analog clicks, plus d pad :lol

atari face buttons 1
Intellivision 12 button keypad, 2 button 16-direction disc
ColecoVision 12 button keypad 2 button
Atari 5200 12 button keypad analog joystick and 2 button
Vectrex 4 face buttons analog joystick
Atari 7800 face buttons 2
nes face buttons 2
sms face buttons 2
genesis face buttons 3
snes 4 face buttons 2 shoulder buttons
genny arcade 6 face buttons
saturn 6 face buttons 2 shoulder buttons
playstation 4 face buttons 4 shoulder buttons
n64 8 buttons
dreamcast 4 face buttons 2 shoulder buttons
ps2 4 face buttons 4 shoulder buttons (analog clicks) plus d pad
xbox 6 face buttons 2 shoulder buttons (analog clicks) plus d pad
360-4 face buttons 4 shoulder buttons plus analog clicks, plus d pad

 

[Johnny]

"virtua tennis uses 2 buttons and that's it. wtf is the point of proclaiming for less functionality in a controller resulting in only limiting the type of games that can come about because of it?"

Because developers often abuse the sheer number of buttons making their games harder to play than they should be. Having fewer buttons to begin with keeps them in line to a degree. It really is a balance though, a balance which I believe involves having access to all the buttons without adjusting your hands constantly, just your thumbs.

 

[Foreign Jackass]

There are lots of reasons to care, kid. First of all, if you're at all interested in games as a medium (and you're probably not, but bear with me here) it is imperative that we expand our audience outside of the 18-32 year old upper middle class male. Comic books fell into this trap years ago, and look where they ended up. They're just now (barely) starting to recover.

Second of all, why should we (as I've previously stated) act like elitist assholes who are somehow entitled to this form of entertainment, while people without the time, the money, skill, or knowledge of convention need to only sit and watch as we enjoy ourselves? It's great that games like Civilization, Metal Gear Solid, and World of Warcraft exist. But their existence shouldn't be mutually exclusive with the creation of games that aren't so deep that they appeal to a hyper-niche audience.

Third of all, while our market is growing, it's not growing anywhere nearly as quickly as development costs are. Things are getting less and less sustainable. Games cost somewhere between $8 and $15 million this generation, and they don't look to be going anywhere but up. We need to attract more people to this industry.

Your mom would never play GTA, sure. But if the only way you can picture the medium is in GTA or World of Warcraft clones, I think you've drastically underestimated it.

*slow clap*

He's commenting on a general trend, not making an incredibly specific contrast between two specific controllers, Xbox to 360. He's aying IN GENERAL, the number of buttons on controllers is getting to be too high. If somebody wants to disagree with him, they should just disagree on that actual point. Saying "Well 360 has the same number of buttons as Xbox" is not relevant, as his point is that there are ALREADY too many buttons.

Thank you! Now we're getting somewhere...

 

[Chris Remo]

but you were proven wrong with last gen -> 360.

and the PS3's new "buttons" are just the L2/R2 'click'


So now that you know that, is the sky still falling chicken little?

He's commenting on a general trend, not making an incredibly specific contrast between two specific controllers, Xbox to 360. He's aying IN GENERAL, the number of buttons on controllers is getting to be too high. If somebody wants to disagree with him, they should just disagree on that actual point. Saying "Well 360 has the same number of buttons as Xbox" is not relevant, as his point is that there are ALREADY too many buttons.

 

[Grifter]

Finally, a smart human being.

everyone else in thread is dumb confirmed

 

[Branduil]

It sure would suck if more people shared my hobby.

 

[PantherLotus]

Jesus, talk about overblown reactions. The way you guys make it sound, you'd like to have some of these as controllers:

HEY LOOK I'M HARDCORE CUZ I CAN HANDLE MORE BUTTONZ!


No. Just because one asks for more intuitive control does not mean that we should have to limit what kind of games we can play. Just because some people think there are too many buttons doesn't mean that they want gc_controller_win_button.jpg. Seriously. There has to be a way that a simple interface can translate to complex controls, and adding more and more buttons every generation is not the answer.

 

[davepoobond]

"virtua tennis uses 2 buttons and that's it. wtf is the point of proclaiming for less functionality in a controller resulting in only limiting the type of games that can come about because of it?"

Because developers often abuse the sheer number of buttons making their games harder to play than they should be. Having fewer buttons to begin with keeps them in line to a degree. It really is a balance though, a balance which I believe involves having access to all the buttons without adjusting your hands constantly, just your thumbs.

that'd be more of a problem with the particular game/decisions of the developer then, imo. now that game consoles are using wireless technology, why don't they just include a "two button" controller along with their game? it might increase costs, but a game that is simple and wants to only use two buttons shouldn't cost that much to begin with.

 

[kaching]

This must be the 4D buttons we're talking about? Because I don't see more buttons on gamepads unless I bend space/time.

 

[stalker]

Did it make you mad when Sony took rumble out of the PS3 controller?

No, not at all. I thought it was a strange move, but I am not really concerned about it. I am not sure of how your question is related to my post, but ok, here you have my answer.

It seems you have a problem with 3D games in general rather than a distaste for controllers. Why not play some Xbox Live arcade titles, Katamari Demancy, etc and see if you still think it's complex.

What games are hard for you anyway? Rainbow Six?

Honestly, I do not know how you came to that conclusion, but you are right to some extent. I have some problems adapting to 3D gaming. But I do not have a distate for them, actually I love a lot of 3D games, and I can play most of them without problems.

I have not played Rainbow Six, though I guess that it is probably the type of game I have more problems with (Splinter Cell is an example I have played and dislike in terms of the subject of this thread).

I Love Katamari, btw.

 

[lachesis]

One thing that I want for sure... is that I wish there would be more games that I can play with my wife or non-gaming friends - pick-up and go with simple control.... at the same time, satisfy my deep gaming needs. Sometimes being able to control a dual shock 2 with all the buttons, makes me feel like I'm a freak of nature in their eyes.:lol

 

[Bebpo]

Can't we just have simple games w/simple controls and complex games w/complex controls like we've had on the PS2/Xbox for years now?

I like that I can have my friends pick up and play Katamari with no trouble. I also like having all sorts of buttons at my disposal for MGS.

Why can't both just co-exist on a controller that offers both types of control?

 

[mckmas8808]

There are lots of reasons to care, kid. First of all, if you're at all interested in games as a medium (and you're probably not, but bear with me here) it is imperative that we expand our audience outside of the 18-32 year old upper middle class male. Comic books fell into this trap years ago, and look where they ended up. They're just now (barely) starting to recover.

Second of all, why should we (as I've previously stated) act like elitist assholes who are somehow entitled to this form of entertainment, while people without the time, the money, skill, or knowledge of convention need to only sit and watch as we enjoy ourselves? It's great that games like Civilization, Metal Gear Solid, and World of Warcraft exist. But their existence shouldn't be mutually exclusive with the creation of games that aren't so deep that they appeal to a hyper-niche audience.

Third of all, while our market is growing, it's not growing anywhere nearly as quickly as development costs are. Things are getting less and less sustainable. Games cost somewhere between $8 and $15 million this generation, and they don't look to be going anywhere but up. We need to attract more people to this industry.

Your mom would never play GTA, sure. But if the only way you can picture the medium is in GTA or World of Warcraft clones, I think you've drastically underestimated it.

Blah Blah blah. Xbox Arcade/Playstation e-distribtion

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[kaching]

Maybe controllers should have secret, rotating panels, so you can hide buttons when your casual/non-gaming friends come over.

 

[CoryCubed]

yeah you won't haft to worry about more buttons, just more complicated buttons with analog and led projection, plus speakers, mics, touch screens, annoying dashboard ones in the center of controller, that kind of thing

 

[Razoric]

Can't we just have simple games w/simple controls and complex games w/complex controls like we've had on the PS2/Xbox for years now?

I like that I can have my friends pick up and play Katamari with no trouble. I also like having all sorts of buttons at my disposal for MGS.

Why can't both just co-exist on a controller that offers both types of control?

Yes, thank you! That's pretty much all I'm trying to say.

 

[mckmas8808]

Can't we just have simple games w/simple controls and complex games w/complex controls like we've had on the PS2/Xbox for years now?

I like that I can have my friends pick up and play Katamari with no trouble. I also like having all sorts of buttons at my disposal for MGS.

Why can't both just co-exist on a controller that offers both types of control?

Because they are not smart enough to use the controllers with all those buttons even though you don't have to use them.

The sheer fact that they are there is scaring the crap out of them.

 

[Razoric]

Because they are not smart enough to use the controllers with all those buttons even though you don't have to use them.

The sheer fact that they are there is scaring the crap out of them.

Kaching has a pretty good solution. :lol

 

[Campster]

Blah Blah blah. Xbox Arcade/Playstation e-distribtion

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You do realize that instead of spending $300-$600 on a machine to purchase a bunch of casual and classic games they'll probably just use the PC they already own, right?

 

[mckmas8808]

You do realize that instead of spending $300-$600 on a machine to purchase a bunch of casual and classic games they'll probably just use the PC they already own, right?

Well then if that's the case don't you realize that the PS3 and 360 want sell to the masses that you sooooo hard love to defend until the prices hit $149 or lower anyway?

Just like the PS2 which is selling to super casuals at $129 the PS3 and 360 will hit those prices years from now when those casuals will care anyway.

Why take away L2 and R2 from the PS3 and hurt so many good games. Shadow of the Colossus is a GREAT game so is MGS3 and Resident Evil 4 and those games would have been hurt if the controllers had less buttons.

 

[trancejeremy]

atari face buttons 1
Intellivision 12 button keypad, 2 button 16-direction disc
ColecoVision 12 button keypad 2 button

ColecoVision also had those Super Action controllers, which had 4 buttons, plus a little spinning wheel, plus the keypad.

 

[Jewbacca]

HAY GUZ TOO MANY LETTERS IN ALPHABET!? Make ALPHABET smaller! K Thanks PM me if you have way!

 

[mckmas8808]

HAY GUZ TOO MANY LETTERS IN ALPHABET!? Make ALPHABET smaller! K Thanks PM me if you have way!

:lol

 

[JoJo13]

You do realize that instead of spending $300-$600 on a machine to purchase a bunch of casual and classic games they'll probably just use the PC they already own, right?

Casual gamers know about emulators+roms? :lol

There is nothing wrong with adding more command buttons to a new revamped multi-million seller, DS+DS2. Plus, it comes with motion sensing too!! Chang3 is good!!

 

[Mononofu]

HAY GUZ TOO MANY LETTERS IN ALPHABET!? Make ALPHABET smaller! K Thanks PM me if you have way!

Lets shoot for A to G like the musical alphabet, that's all we will ever need.

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100th post

 

[Zombie James]

HAY GUYS, more buttons sucks becuz that meansd every game will have tyo use ALLOF THEM and peoplee like the op will get all LOST AND CONFUSED, becvausde NO GAME WILL USE LESS. EVAR.

lol. WIN BUTTON.

 

[mckmas8808]

HAY GUYS, more buttons sucks becuz that meansd every game will have tyo use ALLOF THEM and peoplee like the op will get all LOST AND CONFUSED, becvausde NO GAME WILL USE LESS. EVAR.

lol. WIN BUTTON.

That is what Camptser would want you to believe.

 

[JoJo13]

Staple should make a win button now. :lol

 

[Tellaerin]

Yes. Let us keep our elitist hobby to ourselves. The unwashed masses simply aren't worthy of taking part in our wonderful habit of paying exorbitant amounts of money to play the same crap again and again. It is our right, and our right alone, to purchase titles where we enact our teenage power fantasies in dark living rooms for hours on end.

Or we could do the sane thing and develop some titles that are wonderfully deep and rich and last for 60 hours and attract a select few, and titles that are quick and easy and fun and can be played by anyone.

There are many recreational activities out there that require people to learn associated physical skills in order to enjoy. Whether it's dancing, playing an instrument, or sports, physical skills are a bar to entry, and there's a limit to how far you can lower that bar without changing the essence of the activity itself.

Videogames (that is to say, the ones with an action component, rather than exclusively menu-driven ones) are in the same class. In order to get the most out of them, you have to have decent reflexes, and you have to take the time to memorize the positions of a handful of buttons (and a couple of thumbsticks) to the point where you can use them without thinking. Some people can do this easily. Others can't. Just like some people have an easy time learning to play the guitar or keyboards, while others struggle forever without getting anywhere.

To tell you the honest truth, I don't think videogames are ever going to be a 'mainstream' activity in the sense that movies or television are. Most games require dexterity and quick reflexes from the player, and some people just lack those things. They're all thumbs when it comes to the controller. And that's OK - some people can't hit a hole in one or even play Chopsticks on the piano, either. But nobody's seriously going to suggest changing the rules of golf or simplifying pianos because some people don't have the abilities needed to really enjoy those activities. That's what the OP seems to be suggesting - that changes should be made to controllers as a whole to accomodate the people who can't handle them as they are. I couldn't disagree with that more.

You made a good point about companies developing titles for two tiers of players - the hardcore gamers and the casual, non-gaming crowd. (Though I don't exactly care for the way you painted dedicated gamers as pathetic loners in dark rooms - I think that's a wee bit unfair. ) While those casual-oriented titles might not appeal to me, and might not capture what I consider to be the spirit of videogames, if there are people who enjoy them, hey, more power to 'em. I just don't want to see development shift away from 'games for gamers', leaving those of us who do (and can) enjoy them out in the cold.

 

[Zombie James]

There's a fine line between saying, "i want less buttons" and saying "i suck at games, dumb them down for me." Anyone remember the discussions on MGS3's online controls?

 

[WolfgangK]

I don't see anyway around ending up with the number of buttons we have on controllers now, when the hardcore gamer is always pushing developers to up the ante on controlling every minute movement and detail in games.

IMO, gamepads have grown in complexity, as gamers have asked for more complex controls and interactivity in the game environments. We want to look under doors with snake cameras, we want to set hot routes, send guys in motion, and be able to throw to 5 receivers, pump fake, juke, accelerate. We want isomotion, we want to call mapped plays, we want to make a wide variety of shots and dunks. We want to climb ropes and shoot at the same time, we want our games to mimic real life as much as physically possible, and then try to get our characters to function like a real person using a piece of plastic that sits in our hands.

We're always wanting all that control over the fine details in almost every game that hits the market these days, and this is the result. And when those little features disappear, or are abscent in one game while available in another, we scream to high-heaven and create 20pg threads about developers being lazy. Think about the control you have now in a football videogame that didn't exist 10 years ago. It's ****ing insane. And we're always asking for more more more control, over more things.

that said, I have no problem with the number of buttons on the 360 pad. but's it's not hard to see how and why we got here...and I don't see the hardcore gamers willing to give up features and finite control to push things in the opposite direction.

 

[tegdf]

I've been playing games since I was a little kid and I have never had any problems using a controller, I've never been "confused" or anything

 

[Pimpwerx]

This is a natural progression of the interface. Until you move the controller from the user's hands, you are forced to jam as many buttons as possible. The more buttons, the more inputs you can allow, and thus the more control you allow. Controllers aren't particularly complicated. People who think an 8-button controller like the DS, or the 360 pad lack coordination IMO.

I'd like more buttons, if it was possible. TBH, I love for the days of a 6-face, 4-shoulder pad. 10 buttons + waggle would be pretty nice. As of now, the 6XS seems to offer the greatest level of control. I'm still not convinced the Wiimote makes offers all that many input options, and I am insulted by the button layout. all those buttons mean nothing when that aren't all useable at the same time. The 360 and PS3 have 8-button controllers where all 8 buttons can be used. As long as the buttons are within reach, it's up to gamers to learn to use them well. Button counts have increased b/c we've kinda demanded it through our gaming habits. PEACE.

 

[TigersFan]

Well then if that's the case don't you realize that the PS3 and 360 want sell to the masses that you sooooo hard love to defend until the prices hit $149 or lower anyway?

Just like the PS2 which is selling to super casuals at $129 the PS3 and 360 will hit those prices years from now when those casuals will care anyway.

Why take away L2 and R2 from the PS3 and hurt so many good games. Shadow of the Colossus is a GREAT game so is MGS3 and Resident Evil 4 and those games would have been hurt if the controllers had less buttons.

If you're going to make claims like this you have to back them up. I've played SotC, and can't for the life of me figure out why it couldn't have used a few less buttons and been fine. Its got an entire button dedicated to just holding up your sword in the air. Fewer buttons means that devs have to write better camera controls and better context sensitive controls. That's not really a bad thing, is it? I mean, if that had been done, these games would have been even better, right?

 

[Learn2read]

I've been playing games since I was a little kid and I have never had any problems using a controller, I've never been "confused" or anything

umm...:lol :lol :lol

 

[RumFore]

Hell I think the 360 controller should have two more buttons like the X,Y,A,B. Three on top three on bottom. Also using a keyboard and mouse must be hell for this guy.:lol

 

[agent069]

There's a fine line between saying, "i want less buttons" and saying "i suck at games, dumb them down for me." Anyone remember the discussions on MGS3's online controls?

Can you enjoy this 2 button + cross madness?

And what about that :