Support NeoGAF

[Phoenix]

I just saw a 2 hour demonstration of some of the new features. Spotlight is one of the greatest innovations in an OS. The extent to which it works is simply amazing. It is simply awesome.

Much of what Spotlight did was in other applications. The greatest thing about the OSX implementation, however, is that it indexes INSIDE documents so that if I search for OpenGL Programming Notes, I'll get everything on my machine with those things in context. Not just the things with that as the title


You'll also like Smart Folders too. It took me a while to warm to the idea, but it builds off the Spotlight system. So imagine for a second you want to have a folder for all of your images. Yes you can manage every single image on your machine in one folder, but that becomes a pain in the ass after a while. I created a smart folder called "mobile game textures" and it looks for images all over my machine that are 32 bit, 256 x 256, has an alpha channel, and is smaller than 32K.

 

[shantyman]

Link please.

There is no link. I actually went to a meeting in Columbus Ohio for Mac lab managers. There was ahnds on demonstration by an Apple sytems engineer.

I agree Phoenix. Most people have no idea how powerful this is. Google should not even bother releasing the Mac Google desktop search application- it would be a waste of time.

 

[shantyman]

Why doesnt QT PRO come with the MAC OS? Its rubbish.

Because it is only 30 dollars.

 

[Phoenix]

There is no link. I actually went to a meeting in Columbus Ohio for Mac lab managers. There was ahnds on demonstration by an Apple sytems engineer.

I agree Phoenix. Most people have no idea how powerful this is. Google should not even bother releasing the Mac Google desktop search application- it would be a waste of time.

What would be smart for them is to make a plugin for spotlight since the API is publicly available and supported by Apple - just about anyone who wants to give you online index search, new desktop search functions, etc. is welcome to do it.

The one thing that annoys the hell out of me about Spotlight, however, is that it doesn't cache queries and will invoke them raw each and every time.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

I got mine pre-ordered, and I'll be installing it without any firewire devices attached

 

[fse]

If my school is in the apple store education site, then I can get the discount?

 

[shantyman]

Yes, you can. $69 with free shipping.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Just ordered my copy. I love Apple's student discounts!

I never got to upgrade to Panther. Money was tight with tuition and all. I'm psyched. Can't wait.

 

[shantyman]

One of the best thing about Apple OS upgrades is they run better than the previous version on the same hardware. It really is quite impressive.

Also of note:

Slashdot posted a link to a review of Tiger by avowed Windows evangelist Paul Thurrot. He gave it 4 out of 5 stars, although he made a couple inane comments (specifically, claiming it only has 2 real new features and even worse saying that Tiger was equivalent to a Service Pack release for Windows). The comments on this one are pretty interesting:

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/15/1431241

 

[Phoenix]

If 10.4 is like a service pack, I suppose he will have to say the same thing about Longhorn which is having features cut from it almost quarterly just to get it into a position where it can ship in 2006-2007

 

[pxleyes]

If 10.4 is like a service pack, I suppose he will have to say the same thing about Longhorn which is having features cut from it almost quarterly just to get it into a position where it can ship in 2006-2007

What kind of craptastic analogy is that?

Longhorn is built on a different system than Xp and has a TON of new features.

Tiger is simply some small new additions to a current OS. Similar to SP2 was to XP. The issue isn't in the naming, but that Apple ALWAYS charges 129 bucks for what really amounts to service packs for their OS. Someone on another forum posted a list of all the different versions of the Mac OS that came out, and they ALL cost money. Let me show you:

Apple versions.
<1.0
1.0
1.1
2.0
2.0.1
5.0
5.1
6.0
6.0.1
6.0.2
6.0.3
6.0.4
6.0.5
6.0.7
6.0.8
7.0
7.0.1
7.1
7.1 (Pro)
7.1.1 (Pro)
7.1.2
7.5
7.5.1
7.5.3
7.5.5
7.6
7.6.1
8.0
8.1
8.5
8.5.1
8.6
9.0
9.1
X
10.2
10.3
10.4

 

[shantyman]

He also mentioned that Loghorn would have a superior form of searching to spotlight. As far as I know the WinFS file systme is not going to be part of longhorn, which contradicts what he said. Very very odd.

 

[shantyman]

What kind of craptastic analogy is that?

Longhorn is built on a different system than Xp and has a TON of new features.

Tiger is simply some small new additions to a current OS. Similar to SP2 was to XP. The issue isn't in the naming, but that Apple ALWAYS charges 129 bucks for what really amounts to service packs for their OS. Someone on another forum posted a list of all the different versions of the Mac OS that came out, and they ALL cost money. Let me show you:

Dod you use both Macs and a PC? You sound as if you simply do not know what you are talking about.

I also love how on a gaming forum, where people regularly drop hundreds of dollars on game sin a year, people complain about Apple's pricing. $129 every 18 months is not a big deal. No one is forcing you to upgrade you know.

 

[shantyman]

I love this PR from the MS website:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/longhorn/default.mspx

What is Windows "Longhorn"?

Microsoft is currently building the next version of Windows, code-named "Longhorn." "Longhorn" is being designed to provide the foundation for a new industry wave of innovation—ultimately enabling businesses to use technology more effectively, with far fewer barriers, while enabling customers to better realize the full benefits of technology.

"Longhorn" will provide advancements in the following key areas:

• A strong focus on the fundamentals of the operating system, including advancements in reliability, performance, deployment, and ease of use.

• Major improvements to help PC users to work smarter and provide exciting new experiences for home users.

• The next-generation developer platform to make it easier for developers to create breakthrough applications.

I am forced to be a full on Mac flag waver now when I have the time. Shogmaster's comments I can live with, because he formulates his opinions on facts. Pixel, what you are saying is just dumb.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

MS released Windows 2000 and ME within months of each other. And XP less than a year later. ME was total shit. Good thing they didn't charge for any of these releases. Microsoft is a good guy.

 

[pxleyes]

Dod you use both Macs and a PC? You sound as if you simply do not know what you are talking about.

I also love how on a gaming forum, where people regularly drop hundreds of dollars on game sin a year, people complain about Apple's pricing. $129 every 18 months is not a big deal. No one is forcing you to upgrade you know.

I use both Macs and PCs on a dialy basis, so unless you want to back up your shoddy claims, I suggest you stop making idiotic assumptions.

You say no one is forcing you to upgrade, but you seem to forget how Apple not only pushes the upgrae, but tries to alienate older users by having software updates that ONLY work on the new version of the OS. They have done this since the beginning of OSX, and it will continue with Tiger. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head, but you have to be really fucking naive to think that Apple hasn't once again set up the update so that in the next 6 months it becomes almost necessary to run a good deal of the software on the system.

You saying "$129 every 18 months is not a big deal." doesn't make it a small cost to individuals and institutions that have to dish out that $129 x the number of systems they have every 18 months. MS Service Packs on the other hand are free upgrades which come out at similar intervals. A new copy of XP can be found for the price of an UPGRADE to OSX.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

You saying "$129 every 18 months is not a big deal." doesn't make it a small cost to individuals and institutions that have to dish out that $129 x the number of systems they have every 18 months.

You think Apple charges institutions, such as Universities etc, the full upgrade price for every machine they have? LOL

MS Service Packs on the other hand are free upgrades which come out at similar intervals.

Sweet. So you're telling me my pc OS still continues to blow ass, but for free? Rawk.

A new copy of XP can be found for the price of an UPGRADE to OSX.

At retail I've never seen a copy of XP home much below $199.99. You can get OEM versions of XP home/pro online for much cheaper ($91.95 for home @ Newegg), but I don't expect every person to know that. Somehow I don't think MS is the one behind cutting consumers this deal.

Apple's charges $129 regardless if you're installing for the first time, or upgrading.

MS assrapes you if you're installing for the first time, and buying it at retail. $199.99 for XP home. $300 for XP Pro.

I'd much rather pay $129 than the $199 or $300 MS expects you to pay at retail for new XP Home users.




Anyway, don't like it? Don't upgrade. I've been using Jaguar since I got my Powerbook since I couldn't afford the upgrade to Panther. My Powerbook didn't exactly stop working.

 

[shantyman]

Let's get back to the point: Why are the changes in Tiger only considered "small additions to the current OS." How can you make this claim?

What is substantially different in XP than, say, 98, besides the more stable kernel and GUI?

PS: you started this with your Mac trolling.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Let's get back to the point: Why are the changes in Tiger only considered "small additions to the current OS." How can you make this claim?

What is substantially different in XP than, say, 98, besides the more stable kernel and GUI?

Isn't it sad when being more stable is your biggest new feature?

 

[pxleyes]

LOL, ever heard of Volume liscences? They are hardly "cheap", and for what, an small upgrade? :lol

LOL, I love how every Mac fanboy claims that XP is a POS when it has 90% of the market share.

So let me get this straight. You would rather pay up the ass for small upgrade instead of a similar price for a full OS? Wow, you Mac fanboys really are far up Job's ass.


I know someone is going to claim I'm a MS fanboy, but lets get a few things straight. I am a Graphic Design and Digital Arts double major. I use Macs daily and for what I use them for, they (usually) work fine. I own a PC and use a PC as my home computer because of the price, upgradability, and customizing options on the OS itself. Would I buy a Mac if I could afford one? In a second...but...

If I had a Mac, with Panther, I would outraged to have to $129 bucks (even $69 on academic pricing) for an upgrade like this. $69 may be bearable, but when I upgrade my version of XP another service pack, I dont pay jack, and that is how is should be on a Mac.

 

[pxleyes]

Let's get back to the point: Why are the changes in Tiger only considered "small additions to the current OS." How can you make this claim?

What is substantially different in XP than, say, 98, besides the more stable kernel and GUI?

PS: you started this with your Mac trolling.

Yea, I guess a new kernal is small addition and a search function like free desktop searches isn't?

 

[Phoenix]

What kind of craptastic analogy is that?

Longhorn is built on a different system than Xp and has a TON of new features.

Tiger is simply some small new additions to a current OS. Similar to SP2 was to XP. The issue isn't in the naming, but that Apple ALWAYS charges 129 bucks for what really amounts to service packs for their OS. Someone on another forum posted a list of all the different versions of the Mac OS that came out, and they ALL cost money. Let me show you:

Please list the MAJOR new features to Longhorn please. And do not list those that have been removed or rehashed for XP.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

LOL, ever heard of Volume liscences? They are hardly "cheap", and for what, an small upgrade? :lol

Again, no one is being forced to upgrade. I'm not saying upgrading is cheap, but I seriously doubt Apple is charging large institutions the full upgrade price for every single machine. Lets inflate those numbers though.

LOL, I love how every Mac fanboy claims that XP is a POS when it has 90% of the market share.

My desktop is a pc. My laptop is a Mac. From personal experience... Windows 90% marketshare has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of Windows itself. Absolutely nothing.

So let me get this straight. You would rather pay up the ass for small upgrade instead of a similar price for a full OS? Wow, you Mac fanboys really are far up Job's ass.

Sure. I'll pay for features like Expose, Spotlight, Dashboard etc. I wouldn't pay for Service Pack 2 features, er scratch that, I mean bug/security fixes. You mean IE is the most exploitable browser around, but now it has a pop-up blocker? SIGN ME UP!

I know someone is going to claim I'm a MS fanboy, but lets get a few things straight. I am a Graphic Design and Digital Arts double major. I use Macs daily and for what I use them for, they (usually) work fine. I own a PC and use a PC as my home computer because of the price, upgradability, and customizing options on the OS itself. Would I buy a Mac if I could afford one? In a second...but...

Like mentioned earlier, my desktop is a pc. Doesn't mean I'm not bias towards Apple. Doesn't mean you aren't bias towards the pc platform just because you use a Mac at school/work/saw one once/orwhateverthefuck.

If I had a Mac, with Panther, I would outraged to have to $129 bucks (even $69 on academic pricing) for an upgrade like this. $69 may be bearable, but when I upgrade my version of XP another service pack, I dont pay jack, and that is how is should be on a Mac.

Again, at least I'm getting new features for my money. Useful features not found in XP. And I'm still getting bug fixes, and security patches if I choose not to upgrade. I wouldn't pay for a MS Service Pack. I expected most of the Service Pack 2 "features" like safer web browsing etc when I bought XP. Apparently safer doesn't cut it, because IE is still total ass despite the pop-up blocker, and security center shit that came with SP2.

 

[shantyman]

2 Things. One, I NEVER said XP was a POS. In factm it is a fine OS. Obviously I prefer Mac OS but I have no issue with PCs. I'm certainly not a typical mac zealot who rips on MS every chance they get. I prefer to state why I like the Mac instead.

Second, you still have not said why you think Tiger is just a bunch of minor features similar to a service pack. How do these constitute minor featue upgrades?

*Spotlight, a dead ringer for the touted Findfast feature that will be in Longhorn
*Automator, a simple way to create applescripts, or at least makes it more accessible
*Dashboard, HTML and CSS based widgets that enhance functoinality of the Os (weather, calculator, stocks, etc)
*New ichat AV with upport for 4 way video chat and 10 way audioconferencing
*RSS feeds integrated in Safari
*64 Bit Memory addressing
*New version of Mail client
*Voiceover, a new accessbility interface for the visually impaired
*XGrid, built in distributed computing app

These are just blatant, "on top" changes. The under the hood changes number many more, even if Apple's claim of 200 is hyperbole.

 

[shantyman]

Yea, I guess a new kernal is small addition and a search function like free desktop searches isn't?

See you have now exposed your stupidity. Spotlight is NOT like a free desktop search. It is infinitely more powerful and robust, using metadata to search through files, much like the find fast feature that will be coming out in your beloved Longhorn.

 

[Phoenix]

LOL, ever heard of Volume liscences? They are hardly "cheap", and for what, an small upgrade? :lol

LOL, I love how every Mac fanboy claims that XP is a POS when it has 90% of the market share.

Poor reasoning. The fact that something has the vast majority of the market share speaks nothing for whether or not it is a POS. The better selling products on the market are often not the better product.

So let me get this straight. You would rather pay up the ass for small upgrade instead of a similar price for a full OS? Wow, you Mac fanboys really are far up Job's ass.

And you are just loony. Your argument is so poor and full of logical flaws... then again, keep going. I enjoyed these types of questions on the LSAT so keep going so I can keep pointing out the issues.

I know someone is going to claim I'm a MS fanboy, but lets get a few things straight. I am a Graphic Design and Digital Arts double major. I use Macs daily and for what I use them for, they (usually) work fine. I own a PC and use a PC as my home computer because of the price, upgradability, and customizing options on the OS itself. Would I buy a Mac if I could afford one? In a second...but...

Poor reasoning. None of what you said would prevent you from being a MS/Windows fanboy. Just because you use Macs does not mean that you cannot be a MS fanboy - enter goodcow

If I had a Mac, with Panther, I would outraged to have to $129 bucks (even $69 on academic pricing) for an upgrade like this. $69 may be bearable, but when I upgrade my version of XP another service pack, I dont pay jack, and that is how is should be on a Mac.

What features were added in service pack 2?

From Microsoft's site

"The latest Service Pack for Windows XP—Service Pack 2 (SP2)—is all about security, and it’s one of the most important service packs ever released. It provides better protection against viruses, hackers, and worms, and includes Windows Firewall, Pop-up Blocker for Internet Explorer, and the new Windows Security Center."

Fixes so your machine doesn't get raped because the OS had initial issues, a popup blocker for IE because it was and still remains an open door for exploits and spy ware, and security center - so you can at least feel good knowing that you can keep some of the hacker ass-rape at bay. I mean come on.

Microsoft Windows XP service packs are for fixing stuff that has been broken since release. These are point releases in OSX. Hence 10.3.1, .2, .3, .4, etc. There are (rarely) significant new features introduced and are done more for system stability, security, performance, etc. Just like SP2 and the various hotfixes for the BugTraq masses.

 

[pxleyes]

Scratch Dashboard (see Konfabulator for free). ichat AV has video conferencing which is has been used by a number of chat programs for years. RSS feed in Safari (see FireFox for free).

It does boil down to a few new features, and the only one I am impressed with is Spotlight. The thing is though, the only thing that impresses me about it compared to other desktop searches is that it is integrated more into the OS. That is all.

I know Tiger has some valuable features, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple charges WAY too much for the upgrade. I would expect a company that overcharges out the ass for their system to at least offer up free OS upgrades unless it is a full version release.

And I agre IE is a POS, which is why I use Firefox.

 

[pxleyes]

See you have now exposed your stupidity. Spotlight is NOT like a free desktop search. It is infinitely more powerful and robust, using metadata to search through files, much like the find fast feature that will be coming out in your beloved Longhorn.

Um, desktop searches like MSN or Google use metadata too, the only difference is that Spotlight is natively integrated into the OS. Seriously, look it up.

Christ, there you go calling me an MS fanboy. I never said I loved longhorn, in face I think it's completely unorganized and bloated right now. Longhorn or MS vs. Apple isn't the issue here. The issue is the cost of Apple's SPs.

 

[shantyman]

You make no sense. Now you are impressed with spotlight, but before it was just Google desktop search?

Also, Konfabulator is NOT free.

http://order.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=ZG&&

 

[shantyman]

Again, it is not an issue. They are charging a fair price for a new versin of an OS.

I stand corrected on Google desktop search, but as you pointed out the beauty of it is it is part of the OS, so it is better (i.e. faster).

 

[pxleyes]

You make no sense. Now you are impressed with spotlight, but before it was just Google desktop search?

Also, Konfabulator is NOT free.

http://order.kagi.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?storeID=ZG&&

Did you even read my entire post? I said the only reason Spotlight impressed me was that it was natively integrated into the OS. Thats it.

I use Konfabulator now and I haven't paid a dime. D/l it and try it yourself.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Christ, there you go calling me an MS fanboy.

Step 1: Denial.


I can handle the fact that I have a heavy Apple bias. You should try telling youself the truth sometimes. It isn't all bad.

 

[shantyman]

This is my last post for now, but I can download the new NIN album for free, so I guess it is. Don't be a cheap bastard, register your software!

 

[pxleyes]

Again, it is not an issue. They are charging a fair price for a new versin of an OS.

I stand corrected on Google desktop search, but as you pointed out the beauty of it is it is part of the OS, so it is better (i.e. faster).

I haven't personally used Tiger, so I cant say anything about its speed yet, but it would be nice if it were faster than the Google desktop search.

The issue up price isn't going to be solved. You think it is fair, I think it is way overpriced.

Of course if I can convince my parents to get me a miniMac for my GD program, I wont have to worry about upgrade costs....yet.

 

[pxleyes]

This is my last post for now, but I can download the new NIN album for free, so I guess it is. Don't be a cheap bastard, register your software!

Lol, no you can use it for free. If you dont pay the cost though, after 30 days you get a quick message when you start up your computer. It goes away before the rest of my startup programs load anyways though.

Palsy, just shut up.

 

[pxleyes]

Speaking of my possible miniMac, has anyone used one with Final Cut HD, PS, and Illustrator? i was going to get it as side comp to my lappy if I had some spare cash, but it wont be worth it if it cant hanlde those programs.

 

[shantyman]

Speaking of my possible miniMac, has anyone used one with Final Cut HD, PS, and Illustrator? i was going to get it as side comp to my lappy if I had some spare cash, but it wont be worth it if it cant hanlde those programs.

I have not used one, but it should be fine prrovided you are not working with HD video, and you upgrade the RAM as much as you can afford. You may want to do RAM third prty though because Apple really overcharges for memory (all Mac users can admit this- I hope).

 

[Phoenix]

Scratch Dashboard (see Konfabulator for free).

As a person who purchased Konfabulator (NOT FREE - Konfab has steadily been increasing in price) and developed Konfabulator widgets I can tell you with certainty that Konfabulator and Dashboard are NOT the same thing. Not even close. The reason for this is simple. Konfabulator was intended to be a simple rendered widget layer for the OS, while Dashboard was designed for integrating system level services of the OS. In Dashboard you have access to everything in the actual OS.

It does boil down to a few new features, and the only one I am impressed with is Spotlight. The thing is though, the only thing that impresses me about it compared to other desktop searches is that it is integrated more into the OS. That is all.

Automator - brings system automation to the masses. No equiv on other OSes without a programming background

Dashboard - takes web services and os services and brings them to the desktop in ways that Konfabulator and ObjectDesktop simply can't. Write code for them, you'll figure it our really quickly.

Spotlight - Deeply integrated system level indexing searching and metadata

CoreImage - Basically what Microsoft is trying to do with there DirectX-Next stuff on the desktop. Just that Apple is already shipping it.

CoreData - What Microsoft is trying to do with their new JetDatabase engine replacement which is a stripped down version of SQL Server

Updated 64bit SMP kernel - we won't even go there. Eventually Windows 2003 will get full 64 bit compliance... after they rip out and throw away the 16 bit driver model... maybe then it will run happily as a server OS like Unix does.

XCode - Amazing that this tool is free considering how much Visual Studio costs... and sucks

XGrid - plug and play gridding of every 10.4 compliant mac in your enterprise. Distributed builds - for free. Distributed rendering - for free. Etc. Come on, there is no equivalent in Windows yet, and gridding isn't even in the Longhorn feature set.

And then some of the not bullet point features that are excellent:

Smart Folder, VPN On Demand, OS Level stealth mode internet connectivity, and VoiceOver.

If this is a service pack (and it pretty much covers what's coming in Longhorn), then so is Longhorn.