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[hououinkyouma00]

Tim showing up like a cunt again. What a surprise lol

That shit about Apple doing deals is bullshit because you know 100% he wouldn’t give a shit if epic got that same deal. He/they only care because they want more money and are mad that they can’t so they will try to win anyway that they can.

I’ve never understood why people would want a company to fail really until Tim started this bullshit. Now I wanna see epic in the fucking ground because of how much a cunt Tim is.

They won’t, but people gotta dream.

 

[64bitmodels]

That doesn't make any sense. Again, you're conflating "consumer friendliness" with "producer friendliness".

None of those other stores took off because consumers are sticky when it comes to incumbent storefronts and platforms.

All of them were created specifically because publishers believed that Steam was taking too much out of their pies.


Other than the UI and base functionality of the storefront (congrats, neither are unique or particularly hard), none of that has anything to do with the value of a place on the storefront to the producer.

I don't know what Epic has done with their store or launcher, and I doubt you do either. I'd be shocked if you had it installed.


Of course, but we're on a game forum talking about the business of games. These storefront fees are one of the reasons publishers behave the way they do.

gtfo of the thread console warrior, pc business doesnt concern you

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Sweeney is emailing Gabe Newell and Scott Lynch, and begins by outlining his problems with Apple, before telling them about the imminent launch of the Epic Games Store. This is a direct competitor to Steam and, credit where it's due, Epic put its money where Sweeney's mouth was by launching with a flat 12% platform fee. Sweeney wants Valve to respond to this, mainly because it'll strengthen Epic's hand against Apple, but he's clearly not had too many lessons in the gentle art of persuasion:



writes Sweeney.



The next day Valve's Scott Lynch simply replies: "You mad bro?"

via PCGamer

This is hands down one of the funniest articles I have ever read. They literally got a 54 year old virgin madman who wants his piece of pie harassing them in emails LMAO

 

[JimboJones]

as do valve

Checkmate

 

[Silver Wattle]

Tim is such a weeney.

 

[64bitmodels]

Tim is such a weeney.

You forgot the s.... it might be better that way though

 

[Senua]

Checkmate

 

[cartman414]

Because of the 30% cut.

as i said.

So wouldn't that prove it isn't about the cut?

 

[Barakov]

Sweeney is emailing Gabe Newell and Scott Lynch, and begins by outlining his problems with Apple, before telling them about the imminent launch of the Epic Games Store. This is a direct competitor to Steam and, credit where it's due, Epic put its money where Sweeney's mouth was by launching with a flat 12% platform fee. Sweeney wants Valve to respond to this, mainly because it'll strengthen Epic's hand against Apple, but he's clearly not had too many lessons in the gentle art of persuasion:



writes Sweeney.



The next day Valve's Scott Lynch simply replies: "You mad bro?"

via PCGamer

Do and nothing and win seems like the best tactic for Valve.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So wouldn't that prove it isn't about the cut?

is all about the cut.

Epic is just salty that despite taking less they are losing money hand over fist.

why?
Because their cut is lower


Which probably explains why their shitty store has been over run with shovelware now.

why?
Because their store can't compete with Steam, they cant increase market share and discoverability is poor.


They're desperate.
why?

mobile is already taken (Google and Apple)

Console (you need own hardware)

PC ( you are competing against a 20-year-old store which people love)

so yeah. having a lower cut to incentivize devs to publish their games on your store is useless if that store cant generate significant sales. (both parties lose)

 

[cartman414]

is all about the cut.

Epic is just salty that despite taking less they are losing money hand over fist.

why?
Because their cut is lower


Which probably explains why their shitty store has been over run with shovelware now.

why?
Because their store can't compete with Steam, they cant increase market share and discoverability is poor.


They're desperate.
why?

mobile is already taken (Google and Apple)

Console (you need own hardware)

PC ( you are competing against a 20-year-old store which people love)

so yeah. having a lower cut to incentivize devs to publish their games on your store is useless if that store cant generate significant sales. (both parties lose)

You know the saying "you get what you pay for"?

A better price will rarely justify or excuse a shoddier product or service. EGS after all this time is still far inferior to Steam and GOG.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

If Steam collapsed today, PC gaming would take a super, super, super huge hit. Bigger than if Sony left the gaming market, imo.

Depends on the region, but yes. Both would be seismic.

Fortunately, neither is happening, but kudos to James for a post that literally sidetracked this topic!

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You know the saying "you get what you pay for"?

A better price will rarely justify or excuse a shoddier product or service. EGS after all this time is still far inferior to Steam and GOG.

GOG doesn't generate the amount of money steam does and is the best "pro consumer" store, right?

you are getting DRM free games and people don't give a shit.

but again the point is that the market segments are already established and in order for a company to compete will required a lot of money and time.

this is why Epic and MS are fighting for apple to open up the app store.

 

[WitchHunter]

Indie gaming would be vastly different today if it wasn't for valve. They created a new paradigm in gaming.

That's true. Also, they became a fat, ugly, slow ass dinosaur, with Mr. Jabba riding on top and letting the Kowakian monkey-lizard fanbois eat the slimy crumbs. Doing nothing, just counting money. They are a benevolent monopoly, but that's also shit for indie makers who spend years to make a game, just to watch their baby sink like an anvil thanks to that lame ass shit discovery system that Valve has.

 

[Sonik]

It’s the industry standard.

Epic can’t even sell gift cards because their 18% cut is too small to do them. Screw that. Take a bigger cut, and cater to your users.

When something is an "industry standard" usually it just means that the industry has established an oligopoly no one can break and they're ripping off customers/contractors with it. This "industry standard" is ridiculously unfair considering what the particular companies offer. In fact this industry standard is far more fair on steam compared to other app stores because at least steam is competent, Google play for example is complete cancer with deliberately awful search, only fake reviews, no community features and so on. Trash like Google Play are also "industry standard" btw, doesn't mean we should settle for it

 

[Oppoi]

They would make a good celebrity death match.

Tim Sweeny VS Gaben cagematch. Ding ging and the fight is on folks looks like none of them is too eager to get physical we have Sweeny in one corner yelling across the crowd at his team of lawyers, will he ever turn his focus on the fight? Meanwhile it's all quiet on the Valve side though as it appears Gaben is halfway through a game of Dota2 on his SteamDeck, a power move that should really get Tims blood boiling once he catches on.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I wonder what it's like being Tim Sweeney. I hope that China money makes it worth being such a willing stooge for Xi Jinping

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Calling Valve "you assholes" when they are probably the most consumer-friendly software outlet in the tech industry is some grade A moronic bullshit.
Sweeney, the only people using Epic Games are either using it for free games or Fortnite. Nobody wants or likes your shitty storefront. Fuck off.

Valve is literally the benevolent dictators of PC gaming. Sure things may go to hell the further we get from Gabe, but we should all be so lucky to enjoy what he and his company are doing for us. They could be fucking people so hard, like Microsoft, Sony, and Epic are chomping at the bit to do.

 

[Robb]

The next day Valve simply replies: "You mad bro?"

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

GabeN, the BASED man in gamin'!

Tim says "you assholes" and then... expects them to be on their side?

 

[DAHGAMING]

Gabe is a proper top boy, i hope any other response is somthing like " gg ez " .

 

[cartman414]

GOG doesn't generate the amount of money steam does and is the best "pro consumer" store, right?

you are getting DRM free games and people don't give a shit.

but again the point is that the market segments are already established and in order for a company to compete will required a lot of money and time.

this is why Epic and MS are fighting for apple to open up the app store.

You're ignoring the point.

If you would, for instance, rather spend $20 for a cheap, slow-charging USB hub instead of one with faster charging and more ports for $50, then hey, you do you, but I know what I'd rather have.

Epic offers an inferior service. Players respond by not using their service to purchase games, and instead opt for the one with better features, even if they forfeit the free games (or perhaps, do get them free on EGS, then buy them on Steam).

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

You're ignoring the point.

If you would, for instance, rather spend $20 for a cheap, slow-charging USB hub instead of one with faster charging and more ports for $50, then hey, you do you, but I know what I'd rather have.

Epic offers an inferior service. Players respond by not using their service to purchase games, and instead opt for the one with better features, even if they forfeit the free games (or perhaps, do get them free on EGS, then buy them on Steam).

The point is not from the consumer side in this issue but from the companies that are not established in the market. in this case Epic. and in the case of MS the failure of growing its market share and destroying the 30% cut by disincentivizing people buying games.

 

[CS Lurker]

Sweeney is that chess player with a fantastic strategy in mind to obliterate the opponent, but this strategy is totally based on a specific move the opponent has to do and never does

In this case, it seems to be nothing more than a simple Scholar's Mate lol

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

No.

200 bucks for a fucking VESA mount!? Thank god for 3D printers...

 

[Senua]

I've come to the conclusion the anti steam people itt are insane. Maybe they're angry indie Devs whose games didn't sell idk

 

[Dr.Morris79]

when they are probably the most consumer-friendly software outlet in the tech industry

Killing the PC physical space was far from consumer friendly

But it depends how you view it

 

[JCK75]

I mean Valve could follow Epics lead and be more indy friendly by looking for ones that break out and steal every single idea they have.

 

[RoboFu]

Sweeney really is a communist isn't he?

Either that or he owes a lot of money to China for a possible really bad drug habit?

 

[alucard0712_rus]

Do better

 

[Embearded]

In this case, it seems to be nothing more than a simple Scholar's Mate lol

I was thinking the "i resign" move.

 

[SmokedMeat]

When something is an "industry standard" usually it just means that the industry has established an oligopoly no one can break and they're ripping off customers/contractors with it. This "industry standard" is ridiculously unfair considering what the particular companies offer. In fact this industry standard is far more fair on steam compared to other app stores because at least steam is competent, Google play for example is complete cancer with deliberately awful search, only fake reviews, no community features and so on. Trash like Google Play are also "industry standard" btw, doesn't mean we should settle for it

Not my problem, and I’m not concerned about developers given the absolute unoptimized, broken states they release their games in. They have no problem selling you or I a problematic game for $70 game, and I’m expected to card that they give a 30% cut to access to a large userbase someone else built?

I just don’t care. This thread being about Valve, that’s who I’m talking about. They’ve earned it.

 

[M0G]

Killing the PC physical space was far from consumer friendly

But it depends how you view it

As somebody who's a massive advocate for physical game ownership and collecting I'd disagree. From what I remember, PC physical was in the gutter. We were only getting shitty broken ports of console games and it looked like the platform was on it's way to becoming a non-factor. Steam's rise was PC gaming's resurgence/catharsis. Valve took a shit situation and gave it a second chance. Let's face it, there's no way on earth The PC crowd were universally going to adopt blu-ray drives and then UHD drives. DVD drives only became common years after they should have. So digital was always on the horizon.

 

[Holammer]

I've come to the conclusion the anti steam people itt are insane. Maybe they're angry indie Devs whose games didn't sell idk

Trolling or ragging on PC/Steam is the final frontier when it comes to platform warring on GAF.
Write that stuff in a console context and mods will take you to the farm upstate.

 

[ahtlas7]

 

[Plague Doctor]

For this, his many tantrums on social media, and he has a shit storefront, Tim Sweeney is such a pathetic little bitch. It boggles my mind there are people cape for him and his shit.

Look, you don't have to be all for Gabe to see that Sweeney is a massive piece of shit.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

That tells you all you need to know about how much it costs to run a friggin’ digital store….

At that time Valve had 350 employees, Google had 140 THOUSAND as of 2021. How about you do the math first?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

At that time Valve had 350 employees, Google had 140 THOUSAND as of 2021. How about you do the math first?

How about you do the math?

Google is a massive corporation but RPE is a way to evaluate different business scales

Valve just sits on their moat collecting their cash, running a store is not difficult or ambitious

 

[Topher]

Valve just sits on their moat collecting their cash, running a store is not difficult or ambitious

Good thing that is not all they do then. They continue to make advancements on Steam Deck. They continue to develop Steam OS not just for Steam Deck, but for other manufacturer handhelds. They released Counter-strike 2 last year.

This narrative that all they do is run a store is factually not true.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Google is a massive corporation but RPE is a way to evaluate different business scales

Exactly, and the fact Valve didn't grow like crazy means they have very well streamlined their operations. What does Google need 140k people for? Oh wait, I know what for...

Killed by Google

Killed by Google is the open source list of dead Google products, services, and devices. It serves as a tribute and memorial of beloved services and products killed by Google.

killedbygoogle.com

 

[Dr.Morris79]

As somebody who's a massive advocate for physical game ownership and collecting I'd disagree. From what I remember, PC physical was in the gutter. We were only getting shitty broken ports of console games and it looked like the platform was on it's way to becoming a non-factor. Steam's rise was PC gaming's resurgence/catharsis. Valve took a shit situation and gave it a second chance. Let's face it, there's no way on earth The PC crowd were universally going to adopt blu-ray drives and then UHD drives. DVD drives only became common years after they should have. So digital was always on the horizon.

Well, I would have

I get why it happend, I can see the benefits of why it happend, but we were free!!

I'm a sicko though. I miss the days of patch hunting too. Buuuut, on a hypocritical point too, yes it was a pain in the arse if your drive died on a Saturday night..

I just miss the complete ownership we had over everything. It feels these days everyone is so willing to throw money at zero ownership of anything.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Good thing that is not all they do then. They continue to make advancements on Steam Deck. They continue to develop Steam OS not just for Steam Deck, but for other manufacturer handhelds. They released Counter-strike 2 last year.

This narrative that all they do is run a store is factually not true.

Those other projects are fine but they’re not particularly interesting or significant overall, I want them to quadruple their headcount and make games

 

[Topher]

Those other projects are fine but they’re not particularly interesting or significant overall, I want them to quadruple their headcount and make games

Doesn't really matter if you find them interesting or not. If we are going to evaluate Valve in regards to what projects they have going on then we should be accurate about it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Doesn't really matter if you find them interesting or not. If we are going to evaluate Valve in regards to what projects they have going on then we should be accurate about it.

I’m evaluating them on the basis of RPE and PPE

They are absurdly profitable and could stand to organically grow and contribute much more to the industry they take so much from

 

[Topher]

I’m evaluating them on the basis of RPE

They are absurdly profitable and could stand to organically grow and contribute more to the industry they take so much from

And you are free to have that opinion, but you've also said flatly that all they do is run a store. That is false.

 

[SoloCamo]

As somebody who's a massive advocate for physical game ownership and collecting I'd disagree. From what I remember, PC physical was in the gutter. We were only getting shitty broken ports of console games and it looked like the platform was on it's way to becoming a non-factor. Steam's rise was PC gaming's resurgence/catharsis. Valve took a shit situation and gave it a second chance. Let's face it, there's no way on earth The PC crowd were universally going to adopt blu-ray drives and then UHD drives. DVD drives only became common years after they should have. So digital was always on the horizon.

I only buy physical for consoles (in all fairness, the Switch is the only 'modern' console I've had since X360) as the last time I bought a physical game was for PC was Doom Eternal which I quickly realized was just a code inside of the box (sigh). That said, many people do not quite understand how much of a mess the PC industry was in at the time.

Steam really helped turn the ship around and acted as the PC platform itself. Knock on wood, in all these years and my huge library of games I've rarely had an issue with any of them and it is so much more convenient than trying to find some obscure old patch hosted on a site that is on it's financial death bed. I will say this though, I miss the art on the old school PC boxes. I've kept a bunch but really kick myself for losing so many... I've got a shelf dedicated to what I still have at this point.

 

[A.Romero]

Tim has a point. His store have better discounts for consumers and lower fees for developers.

Epic is the most pro-consumer and pro-developer company in the market.

Sure. That's why consumers are migrating to EGS in droves and in just a few years they became the number one option.

EGS hasn't been able to come close to Steam in functionality despite many years have passed since its inception.

Also, if the product was so good it would speak for itself, it wouldn't need Sweeney talking out of his ass constantly. He is an opportunist and an asshole. His product is lackluster and he can't really compete. He might be charging less to devs but that is clearly reflected on his second tier store. I'm a consumer, I'm not a dev. I'm paying for a product and I want to have the best value possible. I can't get that from a store that doesn't even have reviews.

Valve might charge a lot but clearly everyone involved feels they are getting their money's worth or they wouldn't be working them... And they have tried to leave but they can't.

 

[M0G]

Well, I would have

I get why it happend, I can see the benefits of why it happend, but we were free!!

I'm a sicko though. I miss the days of patch hunting too. Buuuut, on a hypocritical point too, yes it was a pain in the arse if your drive died on a Saturday night..

I just miss the complete ownership we had over everything. It feels these days everyone is so willing to throw money at zero ownership of anything.

Yeah man, it sucked balls but it had to happen I guess. Like you say, the patch hunting etc was/is a pain. If you try setting up old games out of the box now it can be hell finding the patch for the right region to install on old hardware. Digital even makes that easier lol.

I only buy physical for consoles (in all fairness, the Switch is the only 'modern' console I've had since X360) as the last time I bought a physical game was for PC was Doom Eternal which I quickly realized was just a code inside of the box (sigh). That said, many people do not quite understand how much of a mess the PC industry was in at the time.

Steam really helped turn the ship around and acted as the PC platform itself. Knock on wood, in all these years and my huge library of games I've rarely had an issue with any of them and it is so much more convenient than trying to find some obscure old patch hosted on a site that is on it's financial death bed. I will say this though, I miss the art on the old school PC boxes. I've kept a bunch but really kick myself for losing so many... I've got a shelf dedicated to what I still have at this point.

PC games packaging is a lost art too. The new Baldurs Gate physical release is a good example. They made it so it fits on a shelf next to the 90s games but it it comes with a music CD, some stickers, a foldout map and a poster. Back in the day there'd be no soundtrackCD or stickers... just the game, a big fuck off manual, lore book and a cloth map. Call me crazy... I just spent the last few years re-buying my old PC big box collection after throwing away probably 80% of it over the years.

 

[JimboJones]

Good thing that is not all they do then. They continue to make advancements on Steam Deck. They continue to develop Steam OS not just for Steam Deck, but for other manufacturer handhelds. They released Counter-strike 2 last year.

This narrative that all they do is run a store is factually not true.

The comments about valve not making games any more is pretty strange in a thread about Epic games .

Like I get being disappointed but using it as an argument in this thread is a bit rich.

When's the last game Epic released? I mean we could say all they do is sit back and release skins for Fortnite, skim profits from Unreal engine based games and video production.

Obviously this is a gross simplification just like anyone attempting to say Valve sits on a moat of money doing nothing.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Valve makes games though, they have released 2 games in the last 4 years and also mantain a live service game in dota2. That they don't make AAA cinematic games doesn't mean they are not a game developer, if they have no interest in that, then they don't. There's plenty of those games.

What purpose would it serve to hire 200 more people, invest 100mill and the better part of a decade to make AAA in the vein of first party console games? Probably none, so that's why they don't do it.


They want to push VR and they want to push the steam deck, expect their game output to align with those goals.