Whoever implemented the higher quality shadows probably applied them correctly and didn't notice or wasn't aware of the issue at 60fps.
TLOU Remastered: 30 fps option gives better shadow quality [Up: Comparison GIF in OP]
- Thread starter nhlducks35
- Start date
Whoever implemented the higher quality shadows probably applied them correctly and didn't notice or wasn't aware of the issue at 60fps.
These are the first pics I have seen where you could even tell a difference, and even then it's so unbelievably small it blows my mind someone would still choose that option over 60 FPS.
Summer Haze
Banned
RecursiveFault
Banned
PC gaming has people downgrading shadows first before any other part of the graphics settings, usually to achieve 60. ND has been quoted to say that implemented these relatively quickly due to the huge amount of extra unused cycles in the 30 lock. There is no world in which you get both on this hardware. Personally, playing at 60 far exceeds one minor visual change.
This isn't a crazy solution here. It's how computer hardware works. If ND put a ton of time into it they could've made the game even prettier at 30fps I'm sure, but instead they shot for 60, and I appreciate that. This will probably become the best game to show people to illustrate the difference of 30/60fps.
Also what is that weird effect on buildings like that. Shadows look too dark and sharp or something IMO.
This isn't a crazy solution here. It's how computer hardware works. If ND put a ton of time into it they could've made the game even prettier at 30fps I'm sure, but instead they shot for 60, and I appreciate that. This will probably become the best game to show people to illustrate the difference of 30/60fps.
VisceralBowl
Member
Thanks. I have deduced that neither mode has the same 'missing' shadows. Infact, there are cases where 60FPS actually has more/different shadows than the 30FPS version. Really odd.
Either way, still looking forward to playing this at 60.
It's definitely unfortunate. Clearly 30 FPS has better shadows. That said, I think the rest of the game looks so amazing, that I actually don't care as much if one effect isn't as good. I'll gladly take 60 FPS over better shadows.
If I had make the same choice in a PC game, I would definitely sacrifice shadow for FPS (and have in the past). That said, usually my hardware can max out everything, and if I have to make that choice, it's due to bad optimization.
If I had make the same choice in a PC game, I would definitely sacrifice shadow for FPS (and have in the past). That said, usually my hardware can max out everything, and if I have to make that choice, it's due to bad optimization.
Wishmaster92
Member
Thanks. I have deduced that neither mode has the same 'missing' shadows. Infact, there are cases where 60FPS actually has more/different shadows than the 30FPS version. Really odd.
Either way, still looking forward to playing this at 60.
Yeah, i noticed that too. Must be a bug then.
In regards to this,
I obviously can't know for sure, but it's much more likely that this is a bug, not working as intended. I'd expect it to get fixed on launch, if not soon after.
I'm not happy seeing that. This was an active distraction in the PS3 version originally. I can't comprehend why that wasn't caught/addressed in the remastering.
Parhelion69
Member
As a mid-range PC gamer, I usually dial down shadows first, then a game can't reach 1080p/60 fps
So I'm not too concerned with the shadow difference (which can admittedly be massive on some circumstances).
I was half joking previously when I said I'd game at 30 fps for the superior IQ. But since the framerate is going to give me a bigger difference (compared to the original), then I'll stick to 60 fps.
So I'm not too concerned with the shadow difference (which can admittedly be massive on some circumstances).
I was half joking previously when I said I'd game at 30 fps for the superior IQ. But since the framerate is going to give me a bigger difference (compared to the original), then I'll stick to 60 fps.
It is what it is. This remaster isn't as definitive as was assumed.
Pray ND patch this oversight (among others). It's pretty glaring.
Just the offset, check this area on the animated gif.
On 30fps version the offset is larger, thus when shadow receiver is too close to shadow caster it will not be visible.
Based on the first pictures, I was going to go with 60 fps but after seeing the latest ones, it's going to be 30 fps. I just can't stand any jaggedness / flickering if I know I can avoid it. Just let me turn off some post processing and ambient occlusion to get 60 fps instead of lowering shadow quality.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Lots of the things in this game are a straight port of an effect from PS3, so that it would look as close to the original as possible, it seems. Someone described earlier that the reason this is low res is because they calculate GI bounce for the flashlight and then use dozens of point lights to create realtime GI to the rest of the scene, which is the only way it could have been done on PS3.
I wish they implemented it so it was consistent. There were whole areas or types of effects that had what looked like 1/4 resolution or lower implementations. Addressing those seem like they would have been higher on the priority list, and it's not like they were subtle, even before the resolution bump.
Backfoggen
Banned
To me shadows and stuff like that low-res GI effect are as important to the overall image quality as the resolution. It is after all part of the picture rendered at a lower resolution.
What I'm saying here is #Team30fps.
What I'm saying here is #Team30fps.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I've just came from watching Gsmersydes videos and I'd say the whole game is a straight port, I'm barely seeing the benefits of 1080p either and same low res textures that stood out a mile in the PS3 version are still present, what happen to 4x the texture detail?
Summer Haze
Banned
Disappointing isn't it? ND seemingly blew most of the development time of this port on the 60fps coding.
Are you serious?
If you can't see the improvement in texture detail, resolution/AA, and anisotropic filtering in those shots....then I don't know what to say.
I know!
''You need glasses.'' Sounds appropriate.
EDIT: Or maybe ''Put down these googles.'' because they're not good for this context.
gundamkyoukai
Member
It's a remaster not a remake some of the things you asking for they would have to change a fair amount of things engine wise .
ND blew most of there time just porting the game over which was not easy since they use every trick in the PS3 book to get it look the way they did on that system .
Summer Haze
Banned
Really? Now you're whining that they made 60fps a priority?
In what possible universe is this a bad thing? 60fps is the best and most important improvement in this remaster, imo, after resolution. Do shadows really mean this much to you?
Summer Haze
Banned
I know!
''You need glasses.'' Sounds appropriate.
EDIT: Or maybe ''Put down these googles.'' because they're not good for this context.
I think some people just need to replay the PS3 version to remind themselves of how "bad" it looks in comparison to the PS4 version. Character models, framerate, AF, AA, resolution, shadows (yes, even the worst of the 60fps shadows), LOD, draw distance is all better than the PS3 version.
I dunno...maybe nostalgia is causing people to remember the PS3 version looking better than what it actually does?
Oops, sorry for the double post.
This is one of those ports that looks like how people remember the game. When I booted it up about a month ago I was shocked at how dated it already looked. Remastered is a big jump.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
True
I always get avatar quoted for same reason lolI know!
''You need glasses.'' Sounds appropriate.
EDIT: Or maybe ''Put down these googles.'' because they're not good for this context.
I think I do, rose tinted glasses maybe to be blamed as it looks the same to me
.
Looks nice, but so did the PS3 version.Are you serious?
If you can't see the improvement in texture detail, resolution/AA, and anisotropic filtering in those shots....then I don't know what to say.
I can see a slight improvement in quality but I think they should have replaced certain textures.
Summer Haze
Banned
Definitely. I played it a few weeks ago and it looked much worse than how I remembered it looking, the jaggies were pretty bad. Maybe that was just because I had played so many PS4 games with much better IQ's and graphics before playing TLOU again on PS3, but seeing these screenshots of TLOUR so soon after seeing TLOU on PS3, the difference is huge.
TLOUR looks like the PS3 version on PC at ultra/high settings.
Summer Haze
Banned
I think there are a few new textures here and there, but overall they're indeed using the source assets of the PS3 game, at a higher quality.
Some of them do go above and beyond though. Final Fantasy X had new character models and new textures.
But this isn't necessary for TLOU obviously since it still looks pretty good.
I think that the times you will even benefit from the better shadows are so rare it is not even close to the benefit of 60fps!
I mean it's only when you are really close up to the shadows will you see the lower resolution.
I just wish they had smoothed the 60fps shadows more. The pixelation is ugly and I much prefer softer shadows over sharp shadows which look unrealistic.
In some PC games I will lower the shadow quality simply because HIGH shadows are softer than the ULTRA shadows. Even when I have no performance benefit of dropping the quality.
I mean it's only when you are really close up to the shadows will you see the lower resolution.
I just wish they had smoothed the 60fps shadows more. The pixelation is ugly and I much prefer softer shadows over sharp shadows which look unrealistic.
In some PC games I will lower the shadow quality simply because HIGH shadows are softer than the ULTRA shadows. Even when I have no performance benefit of dropping the quality.
That isn't an "oversight," that's how the game engine works on PS3 as well. In some instances when you use the flashlight, it causes an environmental bounce of light and the shadow maps in that bounce have a relatively low sampling, but it isn't a static effect (because the shadows move and shift as your flashlight/character move) and as such isn't as noticeable in motion as it is in still form, and it only pops up as especially ugly and noticeable in very specific circumstances, such as the one in this screenshot. For that reason, it's not an "oversight" that Naughty Dog somehow screwed up and introduced some new "problem" with the PS4 version, that's simply how the game engine works. But I don't know why I'm bothering responding to one of your posts at this point in the thread.
Mysterious
Banned
Anyone have any PS3 vs PS4 comparisons (non-video and non-spoiler)?
I bought the PS3 one on launch and didn't really get a chance to experience it, and since this is the "definitive" edition, I'm considering it. Target Canada has $15 off all PS4 games, so it'd be "worth" getting now, if ever. EB/Gamestop also has the trade in the PS3 one and get the PS4 one for $25 offer, but I'm OCD about my gaming collection. :x
I bought the PS3 one on launch and didn't really get a chance to experience it, and since this is the "definitive" edition, I'm considering it. Target Canada has $15 off all PS4 games, so it'd be "worth" getting now, if ever. EB/Gamestop also has the trade in the PS3 one and get the PS4 one for $25 offer, but I'm OCD about my gaming collection. :x
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
A remake is like REmake or Oddworld: N&T
Oddworld: SW HD wasn't a remake and look what they didt, they could have done some texture replacements.
Yes this, TLOU doesn't need anything to this extreme, but you would have thought the team would see that some textures needed replacing and done it.I think there are a few new textures here and there, but overall they're indeed using the source assets of the PS3 game, at a higher quality.
Some of them do go above and beyond though. Final Fantasy X had new character models and new textures.
But this isn't necessary for TLOU obviously since it still looks pretty good.
What annoys me more is TRDE cost me £34 which people bitched about being too expensive for just a port when it was a lot more then just a port.
Metro Redux is £29 for 2 games, this is £39.99 for just a port and it is just a port there is no denying it.
I mean it looks like bluepoint has done it which isn't a bad thing but on Nextgen consoles a 1080p 60fps port isn't gonna cut it.
TLOU looks great for a PS3 game and I'd say gets away with it, But everyone saying 1080p 60fps is a big improvement will be singing a different tune when they start porting games that don't look good with just a 1080p 60fps upgrade.
And they'll do it because you've given them the ok to do so
I agree that TLOU:R's price is probably not right, and they even wanted to sell it at a full price originally, but at least they're including all the DLC and stuff, which is significant, and I think that makes up for it. TRDE had the "unfair" advantage of there already being a much better looking PC version though.
Those upgrades were simply moved on over to the PS4. TRDE actually was $59.99 though, setting an awful example/standard.Yeah, there's a few places 30fps is missing shadows for sure. I'm guessing this is a bug.
Summer Haze
Banned
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I'm pretty sure that by size they mean, if the texture was 512x512px it is now 2048x2048, so you do get a lot more detail. I don't think they meant texture file size (like 50Kb vs 200Kb). There's no way PS3 version of the game had textures this detailed, they were really quite low res in a lot of more open areas, and I just don't see that here at all. Texture artists must have drawn all the texture in a much higher resolution than what the PS3 game ended up using, so they could now just use to larger size files that they had all along.
Just downloaded and watched the Gamercyde videos and it is VERY hard to even spot the lower resolution shadows unless you are specifically looking for them.
And the shadows seem nice and soft (more realistic) for the most part.
Pretty happy after seeing these videos that the gain in shadows by dropping to 30fps is not even remotely worth it.
However it's nice for those that prefer 30 that there preference earns them a slight upgrade.
And the shadows seem nice and soft (more realistic) for the most part.
Pretty happy after seeing these videos that the gain in shadows by dropping to 30fps is not even remotely worth it.
However it's nice for those that prefer 30 that there preference earns them a slight upgrade.
Scoot McNairy
Member
Boy, I'm sure Naughty Dog are glad they gave us the 30fps mode now.
I'm pretty sure they were 256x256 and are now 512x512. When you double both parts, total quadruples.
killatopak
Member
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That's usually not how people who work with graphics refer to image size. Everyone I know would call 256x256 -> 512x512 increase a "2x image size increase".
I think they increased shadow resolution (in 60FPS mode) from 256x256 to 512x512 (or from 512x512 to 1024x1024), which is what they referred to as 2x size increase. Reason being that it would be very difficult to visualize a 2x increase in square texture size otherwise. If they counted it they way you suggested, 256x256 "2x increase" would result in a texure size of 362x362 which kind of makes no sense.
In regards to this,
I obviously can't know for sure, but it's much more likely that this is a bug, not working as intended. I'd expect it to get fixed on launch, if not soon after.
You should check out the 42 page thread of people vehemently arguing about Dark Souls not having a pause button.
It's not a bug, basically their bounce light implementation that you get from flashlight is not really a bounce lighting but a trick. They use many many point lights to create the effect of bounce lighting because of which having some 70-80 point lights intersect a scene would have caused slowdowns on PS3, hence they use lower resolution point lights which of course means the geometry that the light fall son ends up appearing lower res. So either
1) It would've been impossible to change it because that is how the system works on PS3 and changing it would mean changing a considerable amount of things in the engine itself.
2) Having as many lights intersect at once can cause even the PS4 to slow down.
All Naughty Dog games have very good texture detail and high shadow detail (especially Uncharted games). The reason why it looked bad was because their games didn't have any AF so their textures ended up looking blurry.
Similar threads
- Locked