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To GAF Bush supporters: why?

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Socreges

Banned
I mean, why do you support him?

Do you feel that unilaterally invading and occupying Iraq was a good idea? That removing Saddam and potentially establishing a democratic regime in the region was worth thousands of lives (US soldiers and many more Iraqi civilians) and international/domestic outrage?

Has his decisive response to 9/11 been above and beyond what you'd expect of an administration after such an attack? Do you feel that he will continue to fight this "war on terror" better than Kerry could? How come?

Do you honestly think that the administration's unusually aggressive tactics have deterred terrorism? Or maybe encouraged it?

What about domestic issues? Where does he have your interest?

Does his average demeanour appeal to you? Do you find him easy to relate to? ie, would you like it more if he were to say "y'all" versus "you all"?


Fleshed-out replies that don't resort to talking points are welcome. Please address as much as possible. It's in your best interest.

Obviously I'd prefer Kerry over Bush. I suppose I'd just like to understand where you're all coming from.
 

akascream

Banned
I mean, why do you support him?

I think of what would have happened if Gore had to deal with 911. Bush has and continues to make lots of stupid mistakes, but what is the alternative?
 

BlackMage

Banned
akascream said:
I think of what would have happened if Gore had to deal with 911. Bush has and continues to make lots of stupid mistakes, but what is the alternative?

_1349932_kerry150.jpg

"zuh?"

edit: Is it me or is john jerry the most awkward looking human specimen you've ever seen.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
How do you know what Al gore would have done? I think ANY president would have taken out afghanistan. Iraq is a different story.
 

Socreges

Banned
akascream said:
I think of what would have happened if Gore had to deal with 911. Bush has and continues to make lots of stupid mistakes, but what is the alternative?
I don't know what that means. The alternative to what? Making stupid mistakes?

Btw, I think Gore's administration would have also done their best to root out Al Qaeda. Though I'm not sure if they would have timed the attack on Afghanistan similarly.
 

Azih

Member
I don't understand that too much, what do you think Gore would have done? run to New York and run up a white flag with the banner "Please Mr. Terrorist, you win! Dont' attack us any more!" attached? I mean really...
 

Diablos

Member
akascream said:
I think of what would have happened if Gore had to deal with 911. Bush has and continues to make lots of stupid mistakes, but what is the alternative?
Jesus, you people talk like the country would've ceased to exist the day after 9/11 had Gore been in office. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT MUCH DIFFERENT.
 
Diablos said:
Jesus, you people talk like the country would've ceased to exist the day after 9/11 had Gore been in office. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT MUCH DIFFERENT.

Well, they're trying to come up with a reason.
 
To GAF Bush supporters: why?

Do we have to have this post once a week or something. It gets old.


akascream said:
I think of what would have happened if Gore had to deal with 911. Bush has and continues to make lots of stupid mistakes, but what is the alternative?


About the same thing that happened with Bush in office. People can offer a lot of "What if..." theories but, the US reaction to 911 would have been roughly the same.
 

akascream

Banned
How do you know what Al gore would have done?

I don't, but do you think he would have been nearly as aggresive? Whatever Bush's intentions or understanding of the situation in Iraq, however we got there, I have no doubts that the operations in the middle east were the right thing to do. I feel safer because of it.
 

BlackMage

Banned
akascream said:
I don't, but do you think he would have been nearly as aggresive? Whatever Bush's intentions or understanding of the situation in Iraq, however we got there, I have no doubts that the operations in the middle east were the right thing to do. I feel safer because of it.

really? cause i feel less safe now than I was 4 years ago.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I hope you live in NYC, we're the ones who are going to get fucked over by the terrorists and this administartions policies.
 

Socreges

Banned
akascream said:
Whatever Bush's intentions or understanding of the situation in Iraq, however we got there, I have no doubts that the operations in the middle east were the right thing to do. I feel safer because of it.
Therefore you support Bush?

And why does that make you feel safer?

Come on, I'm struggling here.
 

3phemeral

Member
akascream said:
I don't, but do you think he would have been nearly as aggresive? Whatever Bush's intentions or understanding of the situation in Iraq, however we got there, I have no doubts that the operations in the middle east were the right thing to do. I feel safer because of it.

Despite the fact that there have been more terroirst attacks since that day? I've never heard about so much terrorism on the news until recently. Before then it was just random events you'd hear about happening once in a great while, a majority of it ocurring within the middle east. Now you have it happening in Europe, Russia, amongst other places -- and with more frequency.
 
akascream said:
I don't, but do you think he would have been nearly as aggresive?


Yes, think about it for two shakes. Bush was ran as a canidate and a president that wanted the US to be LESS involved in internation affairs not more involved and certianly not the FOCAL point of current international affairs. On of the first things Bush did was pull out of many international treaties, the Isreali peace talk, Kyoto, Ballistic Arms treaties, the list goes on and on. 911 changed his outlook on international policy and the same would have been done with any monkey you would have put in office.
 

akascream

Banned
really? cause i feel less safe now than I was 4 years ago.

That's interesting. Any particular reasoning behind that? I see children being slaughtered by mulsims in Russia, bombings across EU, yet everything seems to be fine here in the USA. I guess I'm assuming you live here. Maybe we did make things less safe elsewhere. The bully is still a bully afterall.

Despite the fact that there have been more terroirst attacks since that day?

Where though?
 
Socreges said:
I mean, why do you support him?

Because Republicans are sheep. Vote party over president is their mantra. Who cares how the guy performs as long as we have a card carrying Republican in office?
 

Tritroid

Member
See, it's already a Liberal troll-fest.

Why would I give my reasons for supporting Bush if bullshit like this is already going on in the thread?

Count me out.
 

BlackMage

Banned
akascream said:
That's interesting. Any particular reasoning behind that? I see children being slaughtered by mulsims in Russia, bombings across EU, yet everything seems to be fine here in the USA. I guess I'm assuming you live here. Maybe we did make things less safe elsewhere. The bully is still a bully afterall.



Where though?

I dont know, maybe the constant reports that something bad may happen such as a terrorist attack every other week. got to love them color alerts.
 

akascream

Banned
I dont know, maybe the constant reports that something bad may happen such as a terrorist attack every other week. got to love them color alerts.

So would you say those alerts are real threats? If so, it would seem this administration is doing a good job of security at home aswell.
 
Socreges said:
I mean, why do you support him?

Do you feel that unilaterally invading and occupying Iraq was a good idea? That removing Saddam and potentially establishing a democratic regime in the region was worth thousands of lives (US soldiers and many more Iraqi civilians) and international/domestic outrage?


sorry i dont want to answer your question... i just wanted to ask you when "unilaterally" meant "without the support of germany, france and russia, but with the support of britian, australia, spain"...

????
 

Socreges

Banned
Tritroid said:
Someone already did a thread like this and it ended in chaos resulting in a lock.
Link?
Tritroid said:
See, it's already a Liberal troll-fest.

Why would I give my reasons for supporting Bush if bullshit like this is already going on in the thread?

Count me out.
Fuck them. Go ahead.
 

Socreges

Banned
LuckyBrand said:
sorry i dont want to answer your question... i just wanted to ask you when "unilaterally" meant "without the support of germany, france and russia, but with the support of britian, australia, spain"...

????
Don't be silly. This is America's war.

And why don't you want to answer my question? Because you can't? Honestly, why? I'm being reasonable here.
 

etiolate

Banned
Terrorism was certainly around before 911, but a lot of american press ignored it. Terrorism has troubled many innocents around the world for years, the US finally doing something about it is good. Gore would have done something, but judging by the Clinton administrations random bombings..it certainly wouldn't have been the same.

Yet, that doesn't still make me support Bush. If going at it alone is going to result in the reinstatement of the draft... then that was the wrong choice.
 
Basically the Bush policy was to make Iraq a big F bomb to Muslim extremists. Are more terrorists filling into Iraq? Yes but, in the administration's wisdom that's exactly what you would want. Until you find a way to fix the situation you create a honeypot of sorts. All the terrorists file into Iraq an easy to find and infiltrate area. They kill Iraqis and US soliders and stay out of the US. So are their more terrorist attacks? Sure but, not here and that's what the US population wants.


I don't agree with the logic all the way but, I see the point.
 

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
I can see where this is going.

I state my reasons for why I'm voting for Bush and 10 people gang up on each and every one. I will state my reasons and leave this thread.

I believe his policies promote a healthier and freer market economy.

Bush will promote self-responsibility as oppose to government dependence.

I always know where he stands on the major issues and can be confident he won't change his mind if the polls change.

I want a President who is strong in dealing with this very long war on Muslim extremists.

I can count on Bush always funding our military and intelligence agencies.

Those are the main reasons.
 

akascream

Banned
yeah and we only lost 1,000 american lives in the process.

Nothing worth doing is easy. I dunno why you would throw thier lives away in pithy political debate when people in the US and in the middle east are far better off as a result of these military operations. These soldiers understood the risks and provided an invaluable service at the highest cost. That is honorable and good.
 

Socreges

Banned
Tommie Hu$tle said:
Basically the Bush policy was to make Iraq a big F bomb to Muslim extremists. Are more terrorists filling into Iraq? Yes but, in the administration's wisdom that's exactly what you would want. Until you find a way to fix the situation you create a honeypot of sorts. All the terrorists file into Iraq and easy to find and located area for them killing Iraqis and soliders and stay out of the US. So are their more terrorist attacks? Sure but, not here and that's what the US population wants.


I don't agree with the logic all the way but, I see the point.
That's an interesting way of looking at things. Though I don't think terrorists are at all "filling into Iraq". Partly true, at least, but I think that has a lot to do with the increase in enrollment.
 
Cooter said:
I can count on Bush always funding our military and intelligence agencies.


Any admistration is going to fund the military and intelligence agencies, even if it means going into massive debt. We have a monopoly on warfighting superiorty. US is not looking for parity in this regard. That is a strawman that they like to throw out.

Now then if you are looking to restructure the military then you are going to have some issues. There are two guards the old guard that want to defend against core states (China, Russian, England, France, Japan) and those that want a more mobile force for combating terrorism, handling nation building, reconstruction projects.

Socreges said:
That's an interesting way of looking at things. Though I don't think terrorists are at all "filling into Iraq". Partly true, at least, but I think that has a lot to do with the increase in enrollment.


That's the only idea IMO that makes sense. Is it ALL the Muslim Extremists Terrorists with a bone to pick with the US? Not at all. But, I'm sure it's easier for them to plan operations in Iraq than it is for the US.
 
Basically the Bush policy was to make Iraq a big F bomb to Muslim extremists. Are more terrorists filling into Iraq? Yes but, in the administration's wisdom that's exactly what you would want. Until you find a way to fix the situation you create a honeypot of sorts. All the terrorists file into Iraq and easy to find and located area for them killing Iraqis and soliders and stay out of the US. So are their more terrorist attacks? Sure but, not here and that's what the US population wants.

that would be true if there were thousands of terrorists pouring into iraq. but they are not. at best it's a few and they blow themselves up and kill scores of people in the process. so in that sense they are succeeding. the military is not. they are battling iraqis that do not want them in their country. in short, it's wasting resources in a place we shouldnt be in at all.
 
Tritroid said:
See, it's already a Liberal troll-fest.

Why would I give my reasons for supporting Bush if bullshit like this is already going on in the thread?

Count me out.
You must like something of the following:


1. Two tax breaks for the wealthy, which resulted in funding being cut from middle class programs such as Medicaid, Medicare, and the Student Loans program.

2. Doing nothing to stop our jobs from being exported to other countries? Cut funding for programs the middle class depend on, and then send their jobs to other countries? Sweet.

3. Doing nothing about our overpriced and corrupt healthcare system.

4. The net loss of over a million jobs.

5. The fact that we're stuck in a fraudulent war, where our men will continue to die for years to come until the Iraqi government can sustain itself.

6. How the world is now safer with Saddam out of power? In the last two weeks only two Russian planes were bombed, two buses in Israel, and a Russian school taken hostage. At least we haven't had any attacks on the homeland since 911. Ssshhhh, don't tell anyone we've only had one previous terrorist attack here in our history pre-911.

7. How airport and border security is still a joke in the U.S.

8. How large cities that are most likely to be hit by terrorist attacks can't receive the proper funding for the gear they need. But at least Redneckville, Wyoming receives the proper funding to fight biological attacks.

9. The $400+ billion dollar deficit.


All sounds like really good policy to me.
 
Socreges said:
Don't be silly. This is America's war.

And why don't you want to answer my question? Because you can't? Honestly, why? I'm being reasonable here.

well then dont be silly and falsely label things in your opening sentence.. it comes across as being biased and trollish...

okay ill answer your question, but just the one about why i dont want to answer your other question... i just dont want to, it would serve no purpose as gaming-age is filled to the brim with liberals and bush haters, so why would i jump in to explain myself at length, and then have 5-6 people (at least) jump down my back and tear everything apart? i know EXACTLY the arguments that would be used against me, and could probably program a robot to do your response to whatever i'd post. so its just useless and boring to me.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
that would be true if there were thousands of terrorists pouring into iraq. but they are not. at best it's a few and they blow themselves up and kill scores of people in the process. so in that sense they are succeeding. the military is not. they are battling iraqis that do not want them in their country. in short, it's wasting resources in a place we shouldnt be in at all.


Obviously thousands is a exaggeration. But, the point I'm trying to make is those nutjobs that are willing to blow themselves up in Fallujah (assuming they are Al Qaida affilated) are just as willing to blow themselves up in St. Louis or Philadelphia.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
it's good to see the "As long as it's other people in the world getting killed , who cares!?!?!" attitude isn't dead!
 

Alcibiades

Member
Socreges said:
I mean, why do you support him?

Do you feel that unilaterally invading and occupying Iraq was a good idea?

It wasn't unilateral. Really, it was basically France. Even if you say Europe opposed us, it was basically France. And it's probably for the better that countries benefiting from Saddam's Oil-For-Food corruption and selling weapons to Iraq weren't part of the coalition.

Really, Britain, Japan, and Australia are heavyweight enough in terms of stature. I would have like Russia as well, but France wouldn't have gone along as long as their officials were part of the Oil-For-Food scandal. Even if Clinton or Kerry had been President, France wasn't going to help, and Joe Lieberman and John McCain pretty much laid out how disappointing it was that they would choose to move against the US.

That removing Saddam and potentially establishing a democratic regime in the region was worth thousands of lives (US soldiers and many more Iraqi civilians) and international/domestic outrage?

It was definitely worth it. I'm not about the US lives though. I would have preferred a less polite war if it meant saving more US soldiers. Also, Bush f*cked up by asking for another resolution and delaying the start of the invasion. He should have gone in the winter to make it easier on our forces and finish things up sooner.

I'm not concerned at all about outrage from the UN. They made money off Saddam's "Oil-For-Food" program and haven't allowed for a public, transparent investigation of where all the funds ended up.

Even RIGHT NOW with current situations you can see the absolute turtle-speed of the UN. While Annan is offering condolences for what happened in Russia, NOTHING is happening. They may have good intentions, but their record on human rights is outrageous. They do so much talking and conferences, but rarely act or back up their threats or concerns. It's just sad. Not to mention they fail to denounce human rights violations by some member countries.

Things that occured after the Iraq invastion:

-China sealed off oil supplies for 3 days to North Korea and reminded them or where their lifeline is.
-Palestinian suicide attacks have subsided greatly from where they were back in 2000-2001.
-Libya is wanting to become an international player and allowed for disclosure on it's former weapons programs.

Has his decisive response to 9/11 been above and beyond what you'd expect of an administration after such an attack?

Yes. He event went into Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam may have not being a threat to the US, but installing a pseudo-democracy is going to give us leverage, stop Hussien payment to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, and at least serves to show some countries that the US keeps it word.

Also, I'd rather Al-Qaida and this so-called "War on Terror" move the sphere of fighting to the streets of Iraq and not more planning for here on the US.

I mean, sure it's cute to think of the possibilities that could be without the invasion, with Saddam declaring victory over the US on the moral front, France and Russia opening up more business (and some of their corrupt officals getting Saddam money for covering up Oil-For-Food corruption), and Tony Blair a little weirded out that now both Clinton and Bush had ignored his calls for doing something about the decade-old UN-defiance situation.

But I'd rather have aggression than cuteness.

Do you feel that he will continue to fight this "war on terror" better than Kerry could?

Yes.

How come?

Because like it or not, Bush is pretty stern. He's a "hawk" and so is his cabinet.

Kerry has pretty much made notions that basically law enforcement and diplomatic relations have gone wrong and that is where his focus would be. If that means he'd put more effort into convincing France (which would have never come along anyway), then I'd rather have Bush that isn't going to pussyfoot around. I liked his line "people gotta show their hand" or whatever. I mean, better to move on and take some action than deal with a government with officials dealing with Saddam.

Also, it may be a stereo-type, but I honestly don't know what he'd do in office. He hasn't laid out any exact plans. His whole case that he would be better for fighting terror than Bush is that he'd do better with allies (which may be true, but not to the extent it would make a difference, like getting France to go along with Iraq) and the fact that he served in Vietnam.

I mean, I'd seriously consider supporting him if he were to come out and say that Syria and Iran need to stop their terrorist support and than a Kerry administration would move to make sure terrorist-sponsoring countries are held to account. Also, if he would annouce a plan to push for reform to root corruption in the UN would help. Even Bush hasn't gone this far. If Kerry would, I might consider him viable (probably not considering how most of what he says/voted on Iraq has been politically motivated). I mean, I wouldn't mind the "politicaly motivated" part if he was still supporting Bush on this and just focusing on domestic policy (like Joe Lieberman), but he's really been all over the map on this.

Do you honestly think that the administration's unusually aggressive tactics have deterred terrorism? Or maybe encouraged it?

I think our invasion of Afaganistan has encouraged a great response by Al-Qaida. The fact that our partners/supporters in that effort haven't been safe from attacks by Muslim extremists (Bali, Spain, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc...) shows Al-Qaida was ready to respond after 9/11. That said, a soft response would have led to greater build-up anyway, so better to go strong now and have reaction that go soft and wait for a more powerful and astute enemy in the far future.

BTW, this idea that there are still terrorist attacks going on (and that they've gone up since 9/11) so it must mean the US/Allies aren't doing a good job is the biggest piece of crap I keep hearing. That's like saying attacks from Japan on our military went up after Pearl Harbor, well no sh*t, we're also going after them.

Even if you were to take out the attacks going on in Iraq, an increase in attacks only makes sense. Our military/intelligence (plus foreign allies and their governments) are actually attempting to penetrate networks and bring them down, it's not like they're going to stop relenting.

I would expect that if Clinton, Gore or Bush (pre-9/11) had gone after hard on Al-Qaida and other such groups, that we'd see an increase in attacks. You can't look at Bali, Morocco, or Saudi Arabia and start applying the perception and statistics you use in local law enforcement.

Islamic terrorist groups (while they do have cells in the US) originate outside and are basically foreign attacks on America and it's allies. During any war, attacking your enemy will probably lead to an increase in defensive/offensive responses from them. It's not the newest concept when fighting a war.

What about domestic issues? Where does he have your interest?
honestly, I agree on some and disagree on some, pretty much all over the map, but I do support a flat-tax and I'm pro-life.

Still, terror trumps everything. Yes I want our allies to like us, but not at the expense of our security (especially if their "not liking" us is due to money-related things)

Does his average demeanour appeal to you?
Not really

Do you find him easy to relate to? ie, would you like it more if he were to say "y'all" versus "you all"?
sometimes it's amusing and sometimes it's weird. It's cool sometimes, and akward sometimes.
 
DCharlie said:
it's good to see the "As long as it's other people in the world getting killed , who cares!?!?!" attitude isn't dead!


Check around. This is an America that isn't concerned about warfighting like during WWII when the govenment asked the American populace to conserve and ration so we can save resouces. This is a populace that is asked to consume as much as possible as quickly as possible. This is the mantra of an Administration that wants you "To go on with your life as normal and please stay oblivious to world events. We have this under control." Americans are much more concerned with our FICO scores than the location of Bin Laden and that's just how the Adminstration wants it.
 
Doc Holliday said:
I hope you live in NYC, we're the ones who are going to get fucked over by the terrorists and this administartions policies.

Yeah, want to know why I fucking hate Bush? Cuz in NYC, the place where there was an actual attack and thousands died gets jack shit from all the anti-terrorism money, yet when the GOP are in town, that's when security is heightened. And being told to get duck tape does not count. I love living in a city that’s just a convenient tool for getting sympathy votes for Bush.
 
FortNinety said:
Yeah, want to know why I fucking hate Bush? Cuz in NYC, the place where there was an actual attack and thousands died gets jack shit from all the anti-terrorism money, yet when the GOP are in town, that's when security is heightened. And being told to get duck tape does not count. I love living in a city that’s just a convenient tool for getting sympathy votes for Bush.

Screw NYC. At least the Wyoming police have the funds to fight biologicial attacks!
 
I'm sure Al Gore would have attacked the Taliban. What he WOULDN'T have done is squandered the lives of a thousand young US servicemen by invading an unrelated sovereign nation in the name of half-baked neocon theories.
 
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