Today with many games having rpg elements, what actually makes a rpg game?

Malak

Malak

Member
After reading the IGN article about Gow being more rpgs than FFXVi, I realized that it is remarkable that many games have rpg elements even without actually being so.

what makes one game RPG and another not?

Is it possible to come up with a definition that applies to everyone?

Those that have certain elements, would they fit into rpg subgenres?
 
Well it's not about building parties (Witcher 3 was a single person party), but it's more to do with skill trees, customization, quests, loot, and deep systems. Basically your build could be much different than another player. That is why FFXVI and Zelda TOTK are more action adventure than Diablo 4, Baldurs Gate 3, Divinity OS2, Pathfinder...etc... Zelda is more about exploring rather than skill trees and customization. RPG= Role Playing Game. In FF you are on a set path and very little customization. Most players will have the same upgraded swords and upgraded skills, following a set path with lots of story. Not an RPG. Zelda is about exploring and picking up materials and using the strongest weapon. No skill tree or much in the way of customization. I would say Zelda and FF are 'action adventure' rather than an RPG. Not even JRPG's in the traditional sense.....they aren't even 'western RPG's'.
 
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It's a good question, I don't see God of War as an RPG, it may have some light elements of it but in the end it's not a role playing game, you don't get to make any choices afair, also playing Ghost of Tsushima and it's also not an RPG IMO, again it may have light elements of it but no more to my eyes.
The Witcher 3 is an RPG game, replayed it lately and you can notice the difference between the above games and TW3, the choices you can make in TW2 and TW3, especially in TW2 that have a whole separate storyline depending on what choice you make.
 
Numerical control of stats (including visibility), ability/character progression system, and equipment/items which should affect stats (numerically)and have some degree of customization themselves.
 
Yeah the genres are merging no doubt. Originally I wanted a character creator and actual role playing that could alter the story in RPGs but today I have no idea where the lines are drawn regarding RPG, Action RPG, Action Adventure.
Maybe placing points at character stats when you level up can be a core ingredient for RPGs?
 
Evil Calvin said:
Well it's not about building parties (Witcher 3 was a single person party), but it's more to do with skill trees, customization, quests, loot, and deep systems. Basically your build could be much different than another player. That is why FFXVI and Zelda TOTK are more action adventure than Diablo 4, Baldurs Gate 3, Divinity OS2, Pathfinder...etc... Zelda is more about exploring rather than skill trees and customization. RPG= Role Playing Game. In FF you are on a set path and very little customization. Most players will have the same upgraded swords and upgraded skills, following a set path with lots of story. Not an RPG. Zelda is about exploring and picking up materials and using the strongest weapon. No skill tree or much in the way of customization. I would say Zelda and FF are 'action adventure' rather than an RPG. Not even JRPG's in the traditional sense.....they aren't even 'western RPG's'.
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I feel like people are really understimating the depth of play styles in FFXVI with it's Eikon skill trees. You can build some pretty different play styles for yourself in this game. So if "skill trees" can make a game an RPG, then I don't see what FFXVI is missing there to fit the criteria.

However, in saying all of that, I personally feel like it is an action game first and foremost. This genre argument is silly in my opinion. There is so much overlap nowadays in terms of game genres for it to really matter.
 
RPGs are table-top wargames where you play single characters with distinct combat roles instead of armies or smaller unit sizes. But adventure games with no combat are called RPGs now, and the quality of an RPG is judged by how diverse the NPC party members are and what percentage you can bone and add to your harem. So who cares what it means really.
 
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This has been true for decades, I'm not sure why people are losing the ability to tell what's an rpg, and what's a action game or shooter with an placebo exp bar or weapon upgrades. COD has rpg elements but no one would confuse it with Deus Ex.
 
I don't really care about gaming semantics, I play the stuff I find fun.

But Ive always thought that 3 of the core elements for something to be a proper RPG are being able to create your own character, being able to affect the story and quests (at least to an extent) with your choices, and having a good degree of freedom in how to build your character.

Everything else is a "_____ game with RPG elements"
 
Fbh said:
I don't really care about gaming semantics, I play the stuff I find fun.

But Ive always thought that 3 of the core elements for something to be a proper RPG are being able to create your own character, being able to affect the story and quests (at least to an extent) with your choices, and having a good degree of freedom in how to build your character.

Everything else is a "_____ game with RPG elements"
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So The Witcher 1, 2, and 3 aren't RPGs? And Saints Row 2 is one by your definition?

This is why I don't think trying to distill such a wide variety of games under the RPG category into a very tightly, restrictive set of criteria that defines the genre.

To me, if the game has a reasonable number of RPG elements that are core to the game design, it's an RPG.
 
ARK1391 said:
I feel like people are really understimating the depth of play styles in FFXVI with it's Eikon skill trees. You can build some pretty different play styles for yourself in this game. So if "skill trees" can make a game an RPG, then I don't see what FFXVI is missing there to fit the criteria.

However, in saying all of that, I personally feel like it is an action game first and foremost. This genre argument is silly in my opinion. There is so much overlap nowadays in terms of game genres for it to really matter.
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You are correct. But the skill trees in FF XVI pretty much will lay out the same for most people. Not a lot of depth like most RPG's. Yes, it's pretty much an action/adventure game with RPG elements, like GOW. Pretty much the only true RPG's these days are the isometric CPRG's like Baldur's Gate, Pathfinder, Divinity and Pillars of Eternity. Even Diablo 4 is an ARPG (action RPG....much different than FF). There are very few 1st person dungeon crawlers like Operencia, Legend of Grimrock....and even the Etrian Odyssey series (I prefer Wizardry), so really the last bastion of true RPG's are those isometric RPG's.
 
For me it means having a party of adventurers traveling together, and a system that includes elements and ailments to overcome.

Not the current trend of one-man-armies in hack n slash, dodging or parrying all the time.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
So The Witcher 1, 2, and 3 aren't RPGs? And Saints Row 2 is one by your definition?

This is why I don't think trying to distill such a wide variety of games under the RPG category into a very tightly, restrictive set of criteria that defines the genre.

To me, if the game has a reasonable number of RPG elements that are core to the game design, it's an RPG.
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Haven't played Witcher 1,2 or Saints Row 2.

But the Witcher 3, while I love it, always felt more like an open world action adventure game with RPG mechanics than a proper RPG.

There's very little actual role playing in The Witcher 3, from the fact that you play as a predefined character down to the very low and unimpactful build variety.
Whenever I talk to someone about it the only big difference between our playthroughs are some key decisions we made during the story. No one ever mentions what armor they used or which skill tree they focused on because while it might make our characters slightly different on paper, the difference during gameplay feels minimal.

You can't even choose to use a core weapon that isn't a sword.
 
Recent games have rpg (role playing game) elements yes, tears of the king is big and is still considered an adventure game first before rpg.
 
A true RPG for me is a game that gives players agency over the plot, how to progress the narrative forward and giving consequences to those actions, hence the term roleplay. Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Mass Effect, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout etc...etc...

Sprinkling stats and leveling up makes it just a more sophisticated action adventure type of game.
 
RPG covers a wide range of games today, but for me, it's where my character i build impacts the game world and the world reflect's what i do and choose, New Vegas was really good for that, but it's all different opinion's on an RPG now
 
What exactly is an RPG element? Because just about every game released today has stats that grow with the character which you are playing.
 
_Justinian_ said:
What exactly is an RPG element? Because just about every game released today has stats that grow with the character which you are playing.
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Rember in old FF games when you attacked a fire bomb with fire, what happened? You healed it instead of hurting it. In FFXVI, the elements mean nothing outside of damage. To me that's getting too simple.
 
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Fbh said:
Haven't played Witcher 1,2 or Saints Row 2.

But the Witcher 3, while I love it, always felt more like an open world action adventure game with RPG mechanics than a proper RPG.

There's very little actual role playing in The Witcher 3, from the fact that you play as a predefined character down to the very low and unimpactful build variety.
Whenever I talk to someone about it the only big difference between our playthroughs are some key decisions we made during the story. No one ever mentions what armor they used or which skill tree they focused on because while it might make our characters slightly different on paper, the difference during gameplay feels minimal.

You can't even choose to use a core weapon that isn't a sword.
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I've struggled with The Witcher 3 as an RPG but I think it it leans for towards RPG. Very action oriented, and no party. But tons of quests, loot and open world. Lots of options as far as your build. So....that's probably right at the line between RPG and action/adventure.
 
Genre naming scheme are pointless now, you have both DMC and Sekiro categorized as hack and slash (btw calling Sekiro hack and slash always gets me for some reasons), yet they are vastly different games
 
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Character creation, player agency in player characterization and some agency/influence over the story, and leveling/skills/gear.

You need all three to be an RPG.


Witcher 3 isn't an RPG since you are playing a set character. Dragon Age is an RPG. Fallout 4 barely made it under the line to be an RPG. New Vegas excels at it. For example.
 
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Tal Shiar Agent said:
Character creation, player agency in player characterization and some agency/influence over the story, and leveling/skills/gear.

You need all three to be an RPG.


Witcher 3 isn't an RPG since you are playing a set character. Dragon Age is an RPG. Fallout 4 barely made it under the line to be an RPG. New Vegas excels at it. For example.
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By that definition, Final Fantasy 6 isn't an RPG either. All the characters are set, unless changing their name counts.
 
HP and MP. It's that simple.

Oh and a decent story/characters.
 
Here We Go Again GIF
 
Myths said:
Numerical control of stats (including visibility), ability/character progression system, and equipment/items which should affect stats (numerically)and have some degree of customization themselves.
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This is the answer.

Evil Calvin said:
You are correct. But the skill trees in FF XVI pretty much will lay out the same for most people. Not a lot of depth like most RPG's.
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Depth is not a requirement for an RPG, I don't think. As Myths said about, it's leveling up to progress your character/s, and augmenting/improving those new levels (ie, the better stats you get from leveling/experience) with the equipment earned in your campaign.

FF may be an action RPG these days, but the RPG element defines the series every bit as much as the action combat system. So yeah, it's an action-RPG, with fairly equal weight given to both in terms of defining the experience of playing the game.

Zelda much, much less so... there is some progression, yes, as there always was in Zelda. But it's not built the same way, it's not really at all visible or part of your assessment of your character (Link), and so those are action-adventure games first and foremost with some very light RPG elements.

IMO.
 
Rentahamster said:
By that definition, Final Fantasy 6 isn't an RPG either. All the characters are set, unless changing their name counts.
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It's a JRPG, in which you experience a big epic story while progressing characters you don't have control over. It's a subgenre of RPG.

That said, the only thing that matters is what Myths said... tracking character improvement through stats, and augmenting/improving those stats via gear. If that is forward-facing to the player at all, you're talking about a game which at a minimum has a crucial, inextricable RPG element which governs player progression.
 
There's no static definition. Traditionally, they have turn based battle systems of some sort, but action RPGs make the definition more fluid.
Usually, it means it's a power fantasy where you are constantly getting stronger by and you have a lot of agency in terms of how you want to grow your character/team.

I don't think agency in story/character is really required, as most FF games have fixed characters and story, and they're still considered RPGs. This is more of an aspect of WRPGs, but less so JRPGs.

In FF6 you don't actually have very little choice in how you build out your characters, but you have a lot of characters to choose from.
In FF7/8 you don't have many characters, but you have a lot of choice in terms of what kind of abilities they can equip.
In FF13 you have very little choice in general. Characters have an optimal role, instead you're actively changing your battle strategy

FF16 is an interesting one, because although you don't have that much options in terms of stuff like weapons, you DO have a lot of agency in terms of your playstyle depending on what eikons you equip and what abilities you use. Certain loadouts can completely change how you play especially once you reach the midgame.
 
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Usually I just think of numbers, stats, equipment and progression.

There are RPGs that are skill based but as long as the numbers have impact it's an rpg for me.

As an example, souls games are very skill based but your character's stats, equipments, items and build have a massive effect on the game. It is roleplaying because the when and how you tackle it is entirely dependent on you.

A non RPG game like Uncharted have fixed paths, fixed damage, fixed equipment and such. You know you can win with the tools given to you. The fail state is just your player skills.
 
nowdays the line between RPG and action adventure already blur quite alot. thanks to technological progress and game design innovation as each of the genre influence toward each others and want to incorporate each others idea to expand their games.

which mean those related genre evolve compared to what we known, 10-30 years ago. so we need to change our 'old' way of view them according to time. we are not in old generations anymore or there gonna be endless and useless argument over this topic.

sooner or later, the extensive debate whether this or that game is a RPG or not will gonna be waste a of time. (depend on the game ofcourse)
 
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VeronicaMaeKawa said:
Genre naming scheme are pointless now, you have both DMC and Sekiro categorized as hack and slash (btw calling Sekiro hack and slash always gets me for some reasons), yet they are vastly different games
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how is that a negative or an invalidation of the genre? is that not a testament to the broadness and variety you can find in video games? You can find 2 games in the same genre that play completely different... that's fuckin awesome!!!
 
i once heard people said : "if Role Playing Game is playing game as role-playing over even just one person, basically all games are RPG"

makes me giggle, but yea, if we had raw understanding, but i think RPG are about character development.
back when i was kid, i thought Zelda LtTP is RPG, ff tactics is RPG, even shenmue as well

dunno, i might not add scientific in this discussion, just shouting my thought
 
For me Roll-Playing boils down to some core factors:

You create or choose a character and the game reacts to that choice through gameplay and/or narrative

action & consequence - you can act freely on both friends and foes and there will be consequences as the game reflects it

speech & consequences - you have narrative choices to make that also affect the game world
 
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