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[H.Cornerstone]

That's awesome, Húrin is basically a Greek tragedy in Tolkien form, which is why I think it's so interesting. Fun fact: I read The Hobbit for the first time after completing Húrin. To say the tonal shift was jarring would be putting it lightly, I it took me a while to appreciate The Hobbit as a result.

Yeah, for me it went LOTR > Hobbit > and then Hurin. And wow, the tonal shifts are quite jarring. Definitely not what I would have expected. I would say now on to Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun, but that one takes a lot of focus to read.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

y'all want to live in a life size replica of Minas Tirith? Only 1.85 Billion Pounds.

 

[Slime]

The Story of Kullervo, a very early work inspired by the Kalevala and a spiritual predecessor of sorts to the Children of Hurin, is being published this month in the UK.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0008131368/

North American version won't be out until October!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0008131368/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Some details on it here:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/entertainment/early-jrr-tolkien-work-kullervo-publish-feat/

 

[Edmond Dantès]

y'all want to live in a life size replica of Minas Tirith? Only 1.85 Billion Pounds.

That's overly ambitious.

The Story of Kullervo, a very early work inspired by the Kalevala and a spiritual predecessor of sorts to the Children of Hurin, is being published in October.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0008131368/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Some details on it here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...d-a-century-after-being-written-10451314.html

Good to see it finally published for the general public. It was featured in Tolkien Studies five years ago. It's a good read, and it does of course form the basis of Tolkien's Turin tale. Also, the Väinämöinen/Tom Bombadil comparison that I've mentioned before. The dog Musti was taken by Tolkien too, and became the hound Huan in the Beren story.

Also, the name Untamo bears a striking similarity to Utumno.

In summary, Tolkien used the following parts from the original Kullervo in his version:

• Kullervo's personality
• His family
• His sister
• His incest
• His weapons (a knife called Sikki and a sword gifted to him by Ukko)
• The black dog Musti
• The ending.

And tried to expand upon on some parts.


Now, how much of the above is found in the Children of Hurin? All of them in some form.

What we have then is this:

The Story of Kullervo ====> Tolkien's own (retelling and reorganising) unfinished version of the story ===> the multiple versions of the Children of Hurin.

 

[tryagainlater]

y'all want to live in a life size replica of Minas Tirith? Only 1.85 Billion Pounds.

If I was an insane billionaire, I'd probably fund this.

 

[Loxley]

y'all want to live in a life size replica of Minas Tirith? Only 1.85 Billion Pounds.

See, I laughed at this, but I know if it ever actually happened I would be there on opening day - replica of Orcrist in hand.

That's overly ambitious.

Good to see it finally published for the general public. It was featured in Tolkien Studies five years ago. It's a good read, and it does of course form the basis of Tolkien's Turin tale. Also, the Väinämöinen/Tom Bombadil comparison that I've mentioned before. The dog Musti was taken by Tolkien too, and became the hound Huan in the Beren story.

Also, the name Untamo bears a striking similarity to Utumno.

In summary, Tolkien used the following parts from the original Kullervo in his version:

• Kullervo's personality
• His family
• His sister
• His incest
• His weapons (a knife called Sikki and a sword gifted to him by Ukko)
• The black dog Musti
• The ending.

And tried to expand upon on some parts.


Now, how much of the above is found in the Children of Hurin? All of parts in some form.

What we have then is this:

The Story of Kullervo ====> Tolkien's own (retelling and reorganising) unfinished version of the story ===> the multiple versions of the Children of Hurin.

Very interesting, I've never even heard of this story before, so it's a pretty pleasant surprise. This combined with that new Lord of the Rings art book from Hammond and Scull coming in October is pretty exciting. It's times like these that Tolkien fans can take in how lucky we are that even 42 years after his death, we're still getting all of this pseudo-new material.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

See, I laughed at this, but I know if it ever actually happened I would be there on opening day - replica of Orcrist in hand.



Very interesting, I've never even heard of this story before, so it's a pretty pleasant surprise. This combined with that new Lord of the Rings art book from Hammond and Scull coming in October is pretty exciting. It's times like these that Tolkien fans can take in how lucky we are that even 42 years after his death, we're still getting all of this pseudo-new material.

Indeed. We have to thank Christopher for all he has done for his father's legacy. How many people, given the kind of power Christopher was via Tolkien's will, would have buried the works, never to see the light of day? I think many.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

y'all want to live in a life size replica of Minas Tirith? Only 1.85 Billion Pounds.

Man I'd settle for a Shire

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Man I'd settle for a Shire

The Hobbiton movie set in New Zealand is the best effort we'll see unless a Middle-earth theme park comes to fruition.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Regarding the likes of Kullervo, Beowulf, Fall of Arthur and Sigurd and Gudrun; they can be construed as Tolkien's training wheels. Taking existing myths and developing them aided him greatly in creating his own world.

 

[Loxley]

Regarding the likes of Kullervo, Beowulf, Fall of Arthur and Sigurd and Gudrun; they can be construed as Tolkien's training wheels. Taking existing myths and developing them aided him greatly in creating his own world.

It was definitely a smart way to go about it. Creating your own worlds is a much more natural experience if you've examined the ones that others have crafted before - with the added benefit of hindsight and being able to use the aspects you like with your own personal spin.

As a side note, my girlfriend and I have agreed that if we ever get married, we're going to cheap out on the wedding and spend everything on a trip to NZ for the honeymoon - with a trip to Hobbiton (or Matamata as I'm sure it was once called at some point in history) being one of the major contributing factors. The set's facebook page has been consistently posting these obnoxiously inviting photos.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

It was definitely a smart way to go about it. Creating your own worlds is a much more natural experience if you've examined the ones that others have crafted before - with the added benefit of hindsight and being able to use the aspects you like with your own personal spin.

As a side note, my girlfriend and I have agreed that if we ever get married, we're going to cheap out on the wedding and spend everything on a trip to NZ for the honeymoon - with a trip to Hobbiton (or Matamata as I'm sure it was once called at some point in history) being one of the major contributing factors. The set's facebook page has been consistently posting these obnoxiously inviting photos.

I can't think of many other places better for a Tolkien fan to take a honeymoon in. I hope all goes well for the both of you.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

George R.R. Martin says ‘Game of Thrones’ ending will be ‘bittersweet’

The number one question people ask me about the series is whether I think everyone will lose—whether it will end in some horrible apocalypse. I know you can’t speak to that specifically, but as a revisionist of epic fantasy—


I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended Lord of the Rings. It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire—brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: “Why is this here? The story’s over?” But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.

Rest of the interview

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Methinks George's interpretation of "bittersweet" will be a whole lot worse than one character having emotional trauma...

 

[Turin]

Yeah. l love GRRM but I don't believe for a second that the ending will feel very much like LotR's at all. The man's a sick bastard. God bless him for it.

It is fun to imagine how Tolkien himself would react to reading A Song of Ice and Fire. GRRM thinks he'd be appalled.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

The twist will be that westeros is actually the undying lands and in the end frodo and gandalf will roll up and be like "what in the fuck have we gotten ourselves into?"

 

[Loxley]

I can't think of many other places better for a Tolkien fan to take a honeymoon in. I hope all goes well for the both of you.

Thanks man Marriage is likely a few years off, so for all I know our minds could change if/ when we do ever tie the knot. But for now, we're both pretty much dead set on NZ.

Yeah. l love GRRM but I don't believe for a second that the ending will feel very much like LotR's at all. The man's a sick bastard. God bless him for it.

It is fun to imagine how Tolkien himself would react to reading A Song of Ice and Fire. GRRM thinks he'd be appalled.

Yeah, I have no doubt it'll be appropriately messed up.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Peter Jackson in conversation: Exeter College Oxford

I posted the article about Peter's visit to Oxford and Exeter College a few months ago now; here's the full conversation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XDsSr3sGSI&app=desktop

 

[WanderingWind]

It's pretty telling that Jackson didn't understand the question about the difference between the action scenes in his first and second trilogies. Then he responds as if overdosing on computer animation was simply a thing that had to be because technology evolved in between the two. At no point did it seem to occur to him to not use computer animated everything for The Hobbit.

 

[Jacob]

Agreed with WanderingWind. It's disheartening to hear him imply that he wishes he could have done all this stuff on LOTR. Thank goodness there were limitations in place on what he could do (technological, having to prove the concept, not wanting to alienate fans by deviating as much at least during FOTR). Reminds me of RLM's criticisms of George Lucas and how "art from adversity" and the later removal of restrictions explains some of the differences between the original SW and the prequels.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Kullervo is released tomorrow, anyone buying it?

 

[WanderingWind]

I'll buy it before my train ride to Oxford. Get me in the proper mood.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I'll buy it before my train ride to Oxford. Get me in the proper mood.

It's good to hear that you're visiting Oxford. It's a grand city.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's good to hear that you're visiting Oxford. It's a grand city.

If it's not, it's entirely your fault, you know. You sold it pretty good earlier in this thread. I am very, very excited to go to England.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

If it's not, it's entirely your fault, you know. You sold it pretty good earlier in this thread. I am very, very excited to go to England.

In that case, I take full responsibility and put forward another recommendation; the Ashmolean museum, often described as a mini-British Museum which does it a great injustice. If you visit, look out for the famous Alfred Jewel and the Posie rings that may have inspired Tolkien to an extent.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Alright, probably gonna get some dissent on this, but not sure where else to ask this, so here goes: my little sister wants a tattoo in Elvish for her birthday. It's from a line in the movie (not the book, to my knowledge) and is actually spoke in English, not Elvish, but she wants "The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness." which was spoken by Aragorn to Arwen.

Are there reliable sources for translations online?

 

[WanderingWind]

In that case, I take full responsibility and put forward another recommendation; the Ashmolean museum, often described as a mini-British Museum which does it a great injustice. If you visit, look out for the famous Alfred Jewel and the Posie rings that may have inspired Tolkien to an extent.

I'll add it to my list. Said list also includes

- Peak District National Park
- Stopping off at the Oxenmoot for the art display
- The Eagle & Child

- British Museum
- Stare vacantly at the London Eye, Big Ben and one of the London Bridges
- Find a place that does a proper Yorkshire pudding

Uh. My wife has a bigger list. I'm not one for planning. Luckily, she understands and even shares in my Tolkien fanaticism, so convincing her the train ride from London to Oxford was worth it was fairly easy.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Alright, probably gonna get some dissent on this, but not sure where else to ask this, so here goes: my little sister wants a tattoo in Elvish for her birthday. It's from a line in the movie (not the book, to my knowledge) and is actually spoke in English, not Elvish, but she wants "The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness." which was spoken by Aragorn to Arwen.

Are there reliable sources for translations online?

It would be better to buy some Elvish language textbooks and use those to guide you. Even the best online translators may result in errors.

I'd start with the following:

• Sindarin-English & English-Sindarin Dictionary by J.M Carpenter
• An Introduction to Elvish by Jim Allan.

And the following website is also very comprehensive:

http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/index.html

I'll add it to my list. Said list also includes

- Peak District National Park
- Stopping off at the Oxenmoot for the art display
- The Eagle & Child

- British Museum
- Stare vacantly at the London Eye, Big Ben and one of the London Bridges
- Find a place that does a proper Yorkshire pudding

Uh. My wife has a bigger list. I'm not one for planning. Luckily, she understands and even shares in my Tolkien fanaticism, so convincing her the train ride from London to Oxford was worth it was fairly easy.

Really good list so far and regarding Yorkshire pud, The Grapes pub (which is jointly owned by Sir Ian McKellen amongst others) is a good choice, although it's been a while since I last visited. Not sure if it's on the current menu.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Perfect, thank you, Edmond!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Regarding Kullervo, the international release has seemingly been delayed until April 2016.

The UK version is out now. Pretty decent package, especially for those who don't have access to the publication of 2010.

 

[Loxley]

Regarding Kullervo, the international release has seemingly been delayed until April 2016.

The UK version is out now. Pretty decent package, especially for those who don't have access to the publication of 2010.

Yeah I noticed that as well, bummer I imagine it'll be worth the wait though.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Yeah I noticed that as well, bummer I imagine it'll be worth the wait though.

You shouldn't have to wait that long. I'm not sure if Amazon UK deliver books internationally, but I do know that Waterstones do:

https://www.waterstones.com/help/international-shoppers/53

Just under £30 then for shipping and the book. Around $46.

 

[Loxley]

You shouldn't have to wait that long. I'm not sure if Amazon UK deliver books internationally, but I do know that Waterstones do:

https://www.waterstones.com/help/international-shoppers/53

Just under £30 then for shipping and the book. Around $46.

Hmm, very tempting...I'll definitely consider it.

Oh, and the BOFTA EE (and its various incarnations) is now up for pre-order on Amazon:

DVD ($34.99)

BD ($35.99) and 3D BD ($54.98)

Collector's Edition statue (leaked from Amazon.de):

EE trilogy box set blu-ray ($85.77) and DVD ($38.88):

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I prefer the DVD boxset design. Has an elegant simplicity to it, akin to the Lord of the Rings DVD extended boxset.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Tolkien died 42 years ago this day.

Here's to a new generation of Tolkien readers discovering his Legendarium.

 

[Loxley]

Tolkien died 42 years ago this day.

Here's to a new generation of Tolkien readers discovering his Legendarium.

Hopefully if one of the biopics about Tolkien currently being written ever gets made, it'll be worthy of his legacy.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Hopefully if one of the biopics about Tolkien currently being written ever gets made, it'll be worthy of his legacy.

Yes, that'll give us something to follow and discuss, along with the release of the Tolkien recording discovered a while ago. and The Lord of the Rings artbook, further scholarly studies, Tolkien Society events etc. Beyond that, there isn't much left really, at least from Christopher and the Estate. WB may have something Middle-earth related in the pipeline.

 

[WanderingWind]

Edmond, your country has lived up to the hype so far. I am a bit disappointed that it seems that half the pubs in London are owned by a conglomerate of sorts. Half the ones I've walked by (and two that I've stopped in at) have the same exact menu. Different names, same general product.

Waiting inside the British Museum at the moment, awaiting the gallery opening. Then on Buckinham for the changing of the guard. Tourist mode firmly activated.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Edmond, your country has lived up to the hype so far. I am a bit disappointed that it seems that half the pubs in London are owned by a conglomerate of sorts. Half the ones I've walked by (and two that I've stopped in at) have the same exact menu. Different names, same general product.

Waiting inside the British Museum at the moment, awaiting the gallery opening. Then on Buckinham for the changing of the guard. Tourist mode firmly activated.

I knew you'd enjoy yourself.

Regarding pubs in London, that tends to be the case in the capital, but there are still some family run pubs outside of the City of London. You'll have much better luck in Oxford.

As for the museum, I'd recommend the Assyrian areas (Rooms 6, 9 and 10), the free Louis XIV medals exhibition in room 69a, room 55 for Mesopotamia 1500–539 BC, the Islamic world gallery (Room 34) which tends to rather quiet in comparison to other areas in the British Museum. Oddly enough, the British Museum is not the definitive museum for the history of the British Isles. It's just one piece of grand puzzle.

For more on the history of the Isles, with a slant towards England of course; the Victoria and Albert Museum is certainly worth visiting if you have time.

The Museum of London too, time permitting.

 

[WanderingWind]

I have infinite time, thankfully. The main tourist stuff is centralized, so we've about hit everything. The Rosetta Stone exhibit was nice, and the Greco-Roman area was extensive. We found a proper pub, thankfully. Now I'm awaiting my first go at bangers and mash.

Ah, and we ordered what we thought was an ice cream sundae yesterday and got a giant glass of thick whipped cream and berries. I don't know who this Eton Mess fellow was, but he enjoyed his sweets.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I have infinite time, thankfully. The main tourist stuff is centralized, so we've about hit everything. The Rosetta Stone exhibit was nice, and the Greco-Roman area was extensive. We found a proper pub, thankfully. Now I'm awaiting my first go at bangers and mash.

Ah, and we ordered what we thought was an ice cream sundae yesterday and got a giant glass of thick whipped cream and berries. I don't know who this Eton Mess fellow was, but he enjoyed his sweets.

It's a dessert traditionally associated with Eton College. Regarding food, while you're in London, you should visit at least one of the many food markets.

• Camden Market
• Greenwich Market
• Borough Market
• Portobello Road Market
• Southbank Centre Market
• Maltby Street Market
• Street Food Union Soho

The first five markets are very popular and busy, the last two in the list far less so, Maltby Street Market in particular. You'll not find may tourists there, just locals enjoying good food and drink. It's not the easiest place in London to get to, but Bermondsey Underground station is quite close. Southbank has a good selection of vendors, and it's close to the BFI IMAX if you feel like watching a film on the biggest cinema screen in the UK.

 

[WanderingWind]

How hard is it to immigrate, I wonder?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

How hard is it to immigrate, I wonder?

An Intra Company Transfer or Tier 2 general skilled worker category application with sponsorship and an offer from a UK employer, plus passing the points based system. Then 5 years working here, and finally indefinite leave.

Difficult, but from what I know of you via this community, I certainly reckon you could do it.

 

[WanderingWind]

An Intra Company Transfer or Tier 2 general skilled worker category application with sponsorship and an offer from a UK employer, plus passing the points based system. Then 5 years working here, and finally indefinite leave.

Difficult, but from what I know of you via this community, I certainly reckon you could do it.

I am very seriously considering it. I could get used to a pub on every corner. They're nothing like American, Czech or German bars. You can sit in a pub and relax. Absolutely lovely city.

 

[WanderingWind]

I just had black pudding for the first time. I now know why the colonies revolted.

 

[Loxley]

Going to Oxonmoot this weekend, Dantès?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I just had black pudding for the first time. I now know why the colonies revolted.

One of those foods where you can say, "well, at least I tried it".

Going to Oxonmoot this weekend, Dantès?

Sadly no, prior commitments will prevent me from going this year. I will at least make it to the Sheffield art exhibition.

 

[Scottify]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but I saw this picture of Tolkien in his greenhouse, pipe in hand and just thought it was a great representation of what I thought he'd be like in my mind.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but I saw this picture of Tolkien in his greenhouse, pipe in hand and just thought it was a great representation of what I thought he'd be like in my mind.

Thanks for sharing. It is a lovely photo. You are right in your thought, Tolkien himself said he was very much like a hobbit and enjoyed what he regarded as hobbit activities. Throw in certain characteristics of Beren and lore masters of the past and you have a very good idea of Tolkien the human being.

 

[Loxley]

That's a great photo, I don't believe I've ever seen it before.