Tom Brady's Suspension Appeal News

Status
Not open for further replies.
They broke the rules regarding from what location the opposite team could be filmed, yes.

You don't believe they cheated this time?

Or do you not believe there is sufficient evidence to penalize the Patriots?

Let's throw away the legal question.

Based on the information you have read, do you believe Brady manipulated or had someone else manipulate balls for him?
 
You don't believe they cheated this time?

Or do you not believe there is sufficient evidence to penalize the Patriots?

Let's throw away the legal question.

Based on the information you have read, do you believe Brady manipulated or had someone else manipulate balls for him?

No, none of the evidence purported by the NFL to support such a conclusion is any good at all. The science of the Wells Report is objectively terrible, and without it there is no evidence at all the balls were tampered with by anyone to begin with. At that point this whole circus is like trying a murder case, not simply without a body, but without any evidence anyone is even dead.
 
Based on the information you have read, do you believe Brady manipulated or had someone else manipulate balls for him?

No. There is zero evidence Brady worked with the equipment staff, other than to prepare the balls within regulations. There is zero evidence that he worked with them to alter the balls outside the regulations.
 
You don't believe they cheated this time?

Or do you not believe there is sufficient evidence to penalize the Patriots?

Let's throw away the legal question.

Based on the information you have read, do you believe Brady manipulated or had someone else manipulate balls for him?

That may actually not be the most important question here. The most important question here may very well be whether Brady choosing to not cooperate in the investigation of the allegations is subject to the League being permitted to suspend him. Throw out whether he knew or didn't know about deflated footballs. He specifically chose to not cooperate with the investigation. I'm not really paying too close attention to this whole thing, because fuck the Pats and all, but hasn't Brady as much as admitted that he didn't cooperate?

Goodell could have fined and/or suspended him just for that, at least the way the CBA is written. We've all bitched and complained that Goodell's system of punishment is completely fucked and apparently determined by whether he's had his Wheaties. Brady decided to call him on it.

What the judge has to determine is that, regardless of the allegations of the footballs, does Goodell have the right, under the CBA, to suspend and/or fine Brady for being uncooperative.

Frankly, if Brady's suspension is completely eliminated, doesn't this open up the CBA, or at least bring Goodell's ability to suspend players in willy-nilly fashion to a halt? Every single player is going to run to court every time they're suspended for popping Adderall.
 
Frankly, if Brady's suspension is completely eliminated, doesn't this open up the CBA, or at least bring Goodell's ability to suspend players in willy-nilly fashion to a halt? Every single player is going to run to court every time they're suspended for popping Adderall.

The punishment for adderall and for steroids have been collectively bargained.

There is no set punishment for not submitting a personal cell phone. The closest thing to that is Brett Favre being fined $50k.

An equipment violation for a first time offender is ~8k fine. Not a four game suspension.
 
If Brady cheated he would have admitted it a long time ago. He's defending himself against the smear campaign Goodell is doing. Brady said he didn't cheat under oath and he wouldn't risk it by committing purjery. Anyone with half a brain knows this unless they're blinded by brady hatred and can't thing logically because of that

Goodell is now in an odd situation where he knows he has to make a deal because the court is going to overturn Brady's suspension and put the nfl in jeopardy highlighting their incompetence. Brady won't accept anything less than 0 game suspension and a small fine for his failure to completely comply with Ted wells. If Goodell gives in then he's going to get a lot of heat from the owners. Either way Goodell is between a rock and a hard place.

Still really sucks that patriots lost a first round draft pick because Goodell is a cunt puppet
 
I'm wondering if your consistent reference to allegations supported only by fourth-grade-droupout level science as true is the result of your delusion or simply your attempt to maintain it.

Hodor. Hodor?

Judge Berman would like to have a word with you. You're ridiculous.

It's a common thread.

The fossil record proves evolution, just like the 'fossil record' of the Patriots proves they are willing to break rules to gain any competitive advantage. Even to the detriment of the integrity of the game.

Denying such is much like denying evolution.

While we can't say for certain that's what happened in either case, it's a sound accepted theory. Only the fringe deny it.
 
No. There is zero evidence Brady worked with the equipment staff, other than to prepare the balls within regulations. There is zero evidence that he worked with them to alter the balls outside the regulations.
How do you respond to the "deflator" texts and the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom on the same day the alleged deflation occurred? Your contention is the balls were changed by the weather, by rogue equipment guys, or there was no change after the balls were inspected?
 
If Brady cheated he would have admitted it a long time ago. He's defending himself against the smear campaign Goodell is doing. Brady said he didn't cheat under oath and he wouldn't risk it by committing purjery. Anyone with half a brain knows this unless they're blinded by brady hatred and can't thing logically because of that

Goodell is now in an odd situation where he knows he has to make a deal because the court is going to overturn Brady's suspension and put the nfl in jeopardy highlighting their incompetence. Brady won't accept anything less than 0 game suspension and a small fine for his failure to completely comply with Ted wells. If Goodell gives in then he's going to get a lot of heat from the owners. Either way Goodell is between a rock and a hard place.
Why?
 
The punishment for adderall and for steroids have been collectively bargained.

There is no set punishment for not submitting a personal cell phone. The closest thing to that is Brett Favre being fined $50k.

An equipment violation for a first time offender is ~8k fine. Not a four game suspension.

Right, no set punishment for not cooperating in an investigation, meaning that Goodell can make one up. Like he's made up other suspensions. I believe it was in the CBA that the NFLPA basically agreed to Goodell having that power. Again, Brady is challenging it.

I guess I was trying to stress that I don't think this comes down to whether Brady had knowledge of or directed the equipment staff to doctor the footballs. It comes down to whether the League has the right to suspend Brady for not cooperating in the investigation into said allegations.

And yes, I get that 4 games seems long to some people vs. an $8k fine or whatever. Refer to my previous statement about Goodell being all over the goddamn map on his punishments.
 

Because deflating the balls isn't even that big of a competitive advantage. As noted from the second half of Colts game when his stats were better when they were properly inflated. Keep in mind only some of these balls were barely under 12.5 anyway. If he told someone to deflate the balls he would have admitted it and gotten it over with. Other QBs have admitted they like the balls a certain way. Rogers for instance likes them over inflated and said he would purposefully over inflate them and see if the refs took air out. No one thinks less of Rogers for this because it's not a big deal.
 
How do you respond to the "deflator" texts and the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom on the same day the alleged deflation occurred? Your contention is the balls were changed by the weather, by rogue equipment guys, or there was no change after the balls were inspected?

If there's no body and no one missing, what you were doing when you don't have an alibi is irrelevant.
 
How do you respond to the "deflator" texts and the ball boy taking the balls to the bathroom on the same day the alleged deflation occurred? Your contention is the balls were changed by the weather, by rogue equipment guys, or there was no change after the balls were inspected?

According to the wells report, there was no error in the ball PSI that is not easily explained by the weather conditions and gas law. So, there is absolutely nothing suggesting anything was done to the balls.

It would be like asking a armored car driver how much money he stole when his truck came in with exactly as much money as it was supposed to have.

As for the "deflator" text, it was sent in may of last year, months before the season even started, so it really has nothing to do with this.
 
still haven't explained why he was called the deflator.

It was in the course of a conversation about a situation in which a ball was overinflated by the officials. It was also months and months before the playoffs.

But again, it's irrelevant if you can't even point to a football that had any evidence of tampering.
 
Let us once again note the infamous "deflator" txt was from May, before the season, while during the season we have txts from the Jets game (a Pats home game) about how the balls were inflated to "almost 16" psi by the refs.
 
It was in the course of a conversation about a situation in which a ball was overinflated by the officials. It was also months and months before the playoffs.

But again, it's irrelevant if you can't even point to a football that had any evidence of tampering.

It's relevant because the nfl doesn't need any hard evidence to punish brady.
 
It's relevant because the nfl doesn't need any hard evidence to punish brady.

I would absolutely disagree with that. Punishments can and have been vacated for a lack of evidence.

Do you think that actually should be true? Do you want the commissioner to have the ability to punish players without evidence?
 
The Wells report was tasked with determining if the Patriots tampered with the Footballs during the AFCCG, the evidence that wells presents specifically regarding that game is McNally's bathroom rendezvous with the Footballs and the Exponent analysis of the gauges and PSI variation. Every other evidence is from months to many months before the AFCCG or Brady's increased communication with John Jastremski after the AFCCG.

Ted Wells tried to use the communication months before the AFCCG as indication of this being a reoccurring pattern but he fails at making that connection - even Judge Berman commented about this.

He then tries to make a case for McNally deflating in the bathroom which is suspicious until you realize that the PSI numbers show that the footballs were in line with expectation and maybe McNally was really taking a piss.

The fact that the report took over 5 months and all we have is a "deflator" text from 8 months before the AFCCG, the balls disappearing into the bathroom for 90 seconds and some shoddy science should be indication enough that Wells and the NFL were really grasping at finding something.
 
Because deflating the balls isn't even that big of a competitive advantage. As noted from the second half of Colts game when his stats were better when they were properly inflated. Keep in mind only some of these balls were barely under 12.5 anyway. If he told someone to deflate the balls he would have admitted it and gotten it over with. Other QBs have admitted they like the balls a certain way. Rogers for instance likes them over inflated and said he would purposefully over inflate them and see if the refs took air out. No one thinks less of Rogers for this because it's not a big deal.
The biggest deal that ovehadows all rationality is Patriots and Tom Brady hate. Rogers said he would sneak over inflated balls passed the refs whenever he got the chance and has gotten no backlash over it.
 
Right, no set punishment for not cooperating in an investigation, meaning that Goodell can make one up. Like he's made up other suspensions. I believe it was in the CBA that the NFLPA basically agreed to Goodell having that power. Again, Brady is challenging it.

I guess I was trying to stress that I don't think this comes down to whether Brady had knowledge of or directed the equipment staff to doctor the footballs. It comes down to whether the League has the right to suspend Brady for not cooperating in the investigation into said allegations.

And yes, I get that 4 games seems long to some people vs. an $8k fine or whatever. Refer to my previous statement about Goodell being all over the goddamn map on his punishments.

Apparently the league was supposed inform Brady that the consequence to not cooperating would be punished. They didn't inform him or anyone of that, he didn't hand over his phone, he was punished for it. Lawyers lawyering that that breaks the CBA in an attempt to vacate the suspension.

That's just one of the arguments Brady's camp has put forth. They are also emphasizing the ineptitude and lack of lack of impartiality of Goodell's actions concerning all of the Deflategate fiasco. The important part is the breaking the CBA though, because as pointed out before, this is not whether or not Goodell has been fair in this, but if he did anything he's not allowed to do.

Call it what you wanna call it, once a cheater always a cheater.

Hope he gets the games held. More if possible.

You must not like a lot of NFL players and teams then. Even guys on your own favorite team I assume.
 
Right, no set punishment for not cooperating in an investigation, meaning that Goodell can make one up. Like he's made up other suspensions. I believe it was in the CBA that the NFLPA basically agreed to Goodell having that power. Again, Brady is challenging it.

I guess I was trying to stress that I don't think this comes down to whether Brady had knowledge of or directed the equipment staff to doctor the footballs. It comes down to whether the League has the right to suspend Brady for not cooperating in the investigation into said allegations.

And yes, I get that 4 games seems long to some people vs. an $8k fine or whatever. Refer to my previous statement about Goodell being all over the goddamn map on his punishments.


Favre didn't cooperate in his dick pick investigation by refusing to turn over his cell phone. He was fined 50k. So there is a history of what to expect if you fail to cooperate.
 
I'm sure this was an inside job by the NFL to smear Tom Brady and the Patriots. I mean after Kraft and Goodell had that falling out, Roger was furious. Roger is just taking his ball home and not letting Kraft play.

Sucks that Kraft money won't have the sway it once did.

Kraft and Roger had such a tight relationship it's disappointing to see it be destroyed in the public. Years and years of friendship and back patting all gone in a blink of an eye. They stuck together through all the rough times, Kraft out there doing work and Roger coming along to cover it up. Sad indeed.

Stuck in the middle is little Tommy, just as innocent as can be. Throwing balls to Gronk, oblivious to all of it including the balls prepped by people he thought he could trust. He's the real victim of this public divorce.
 
Then why lie about when questioned? Why not just say, "Because that's my job."

Why make up some BS about losing weight?

Wells never got to ask him about the text messages. The "weight-loss" argument was put forth by the Patriots lawyer. Though they did use the term "deflator" in another text message and it is obvious it is being used in another context outside of footballs.
 
Let us once again note the infamous "deflator" txt was from May, before the season, while during the season we have txts from the Jets game (a Pats home game) about how the balls were inflated to "almost 16" psi by the refs.

There is no point trying to explain facts to idiots. Their opinion wont change.
 
Apparently Bleacher Report had a talk to a NFL owner:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...this-entire-episode-is-embarrassing-our-sport

Regarding the CBA and Goodell's power:

"We all agreed to this process," said the owner, who I've spoken to occasionally during Deflategate. "The union agreed to it, and the owners agreed to it. It's hypocritical for the union to say they hate the process or for Robert [Kraft] to put up such a fight. Robert didn't have a problem with the process when it was used against other teams."

Regarding deflategate:

"I agree with Roger being the voice of discipline," the owner said, "but it can't be denied that the process needs major tweaking. This process has hurt Tom, it's hurt Roger and it's hurt the NFL.

"This entire episode is embarrassing our sport. It makes us look horrible. Think about how long this has gone on. This shouldn't happen."

The owner pointed to how Deflategate started in January and is still going. It was seven months to the day on Tuesday. It's been 215 days as of Friday. It took three days to go to the moon.

"Nothing like this happens in other leagues," the owner said. "Why our league?"

Again, these owners back Goodell, but this is the harshest I've heard any owner speak about the process. The same types of concerns about the case were expressed to me by several front-office sources.
 
The process wouldn't be as big of a deal if Goodell wasn't caught lying all the time. The policy is fine otherwise.

The process is embarrassing for the league, but you're right that ultimately what's worse for the league is that they're going after their biggest star and lying constantly to do it.
 
The process is embarrassing for the league, but you're right that ultimately what's worse for the league is that they're going after their biggest star and lying constantly to do it.

I just don't understand why Goodell lied when he upheld the suspension. It really makes no sense to do that. And I'm surprised more media outlets didn't completely blast him for it. He's the commish for the most popular sports league in America.
 
Dan Wetzel from Yahoo put togther a nice paragraph describing the NFL's argument to the Judge.

The NFL's defense, as Nash kept pointing out in the face of a double-team of repeated hostile questioning by Berman and dramatic presentations by Kessler, is that it doesn't matter if the league's system is terrible, unfair, nonsensical, rooted in bias or, at its core, heavy-handed. Since it was collectively bargained with the union, league commissioner Roger Goodell can be completely wrong based on the inaccurate findings of a bad investigation and no one can do anything about it.

"We had a hearing and the commissioner gave a verdict that is final and binding," Nash said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...ll-s-spoils-of-lockout-victory-064322873.html

EDIT:

I just don't understand why Goodell lied when he upheld the suspension. It really makes no sense to do that. And I'm surprised more media outlets didn't completely blast him for it. He's the commish for the most popular sports league in America.

Goodell might not have thought the transcript would become public, had it not we would not have known about his lies.
 
Dan Wetzel from Yahoo put togther a nice paragraph describing the NFL's argument to the Judge.



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...ll-s-spoils-of-lockout-victory-064322873.html

EDIT:



Goodell might not have thought the transcript would become public, had it not we would not have known about his lies.

He is the one that had it sealed after all. It's clear by what they leaked to ESPN that all they really wanted the public to know was that Tom destroyed his phone.
 
Dan Wetzel from Yahoo put togther a nice paragraph describing the NFL's argument to the Judge.



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/deflat...ll-s-spoils-of-lockout-victory-064322873.html

I think he's wrong about this hurting the NFL and Goodell with anyone except the players if they end up winning the case. Based on reporting so far it is likely any NFL win will likely be reported in a way that is easily interpreted as a complete vindication of the NFL and proof that some sort of cheating occurred. I highly doubt the average person understands how horrifically broken binding arbitration is inside the U.S. and I can't see most reporting on a ruling based on that as doing much to educate people.
 
You must not like a lot of NFL players and teams then. Even guys on your own favorite team I assume.

In the contrary, I'm a huge football fan and everyone that gets punished for what they do. They deserve it, but those are external issues.

When someone cheats the game thats a big issue as well. And when u cheat to get to the superbowl, to me, is a big deal.
 
In the contrary, I'm a huge football fan and everyone that gets punished for what they do. They deserve it, but those are external issues.

When someone cheats the game thats a big issue as well. And when u cheat to get to the superbowl, to me, is a big deal.

What about when there's no evidence anyone cheated, like in this case?
 
I just don't understand why Goodell lied when he upheld the suspension. It really makes no sense to do that. And I'm surprised more media outlets didn't completely blast him for it. He's the commish for the most popular sports league in America.

I don't get this either... If the other commissioners would have done the same thing then the media would have been all over their asses. I wonder why goodell gets a free pass...
 
I think he's wrong about this hurting the NFL and Goodell with anyone except the players if they end up winning the case. Based on reporting so far it is likely any NFL win will likely be reported in a way that is easily interpreted as a complete vindication of the NFL and proof that some sort of cheating occurred. I highly doubt the average person understands how horrifically broken binding arbitration is inside the U.S. and I can't see most reporting on a ruling based on that as doing much to educate people.

and if Brady does win, i'm sure the NFL will chalk it up to a technicality.
 
Then why lie about when questioned? Why not just say, "Because that's my job."

Why make up some BS about losing weight?

Do we know what he ("the deflator") said when Wells questioned him on it? Or if Wells even questioned him about it in the first place?

Given that he was only referred to as "the deflator" 1 time in the ~1200 text messages reviewed by Wells, and the one time was nearly a year before he was interviewed, it's also pretty likely that he didn't remember the context of that particular text message.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom