Support NeoGAF

[Celine]

Nintendo did a lot of buying when they entered.

Uh, what are you talking about?
Nintendo is famous for focusing on inner expansion instead of relying on merges and acquisitions and to prefer to foster a partnership relation with satellite studios which is why it has decades long partnerships with development studios like HAL Laboratory and Intelligent Systems (since the '80s).
Without saying that when Nintendo entered the console business all there was Pong clones and the first consoles with interchangeable software had just released in US then a few years later the Famicom was the first truly mainstream console in the japanese market meanwhile in North America the market collapsed and was revived by Nintendo with the NES.
Since Nintendo entered from the beginning and had a primary role to grow the industry more than "buying" it focused on "building".

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Uh, what are you talking about?
Nintendo is famous for focusing on inner expansion instead of relying on merges and acquisitions and to prefer to foster a partnership relation with satellite studios which is why it has decades long partnerships with development studios like HAL Laboratory and Intelligent Systems (since the '80s).
Without saying that when Nintendo entered the console business all there was Pong clones and the first consoles with interchangeable software had just released in US then a few years later the Famicom was the first truly mainstream console in the japanese market meanwhile in North America the market collapsed.
Since Nintendo entered from the beginning and had a primary role to grow the industry more than "buying" it focused on "building".

I said nothing about mergers and acquisitions. I said they spent money to make things happen. Building takes time and dough and every company who entered this industry has used both. I also didn't say it was a bad thing — sometimes you have to spend a little to earn a lot, but they did put capital into expansion of their interests and anyone who knows how business works would expect this to be the case.

That's very different from spending money to either keep games off of other platforms or to permanently take them from other platforms. AFAIK, Nintendo hasn't played that game yet.

 

[Topher]

KOTOR was Xbox exclusive. Sony made the remake exclusive to them.

And no, paying a company to keep a game they are making for everyone just to keep it off the competitor is worse than buying a company. Option 1) gains no value at all for your customers.l because they were already getting the game. Option 2) is at least providing value for your customers. As we know Sony was trying to buy Starfield exclusivity when MS decided to buy Bethesda.

This again? How is it not completely clear to everyone who follows the industry closely that both Microsoft and Sony have acquired other companies and paid to keep games off of the other's platform?

 

[bender]

This again? How is it not completely clear to everyone who follows the industry closely that both Microsoft and Sony have acquired other companies and paid to keep games off of the other's platform?

This is why the Playdate is the greatest gaming system of all time.

 

[Megatron]

This again? How is it not completely clear to everyone who follows the industry closely that both Microsoft and Sony have acquired other companies and paid to keep games off of the other's platform?

MS hasnt kept a AAA game off Sony platform since Rise of the Tomb Raider that I can think of. But not because they are saints, because publishers won’t give up the PS install base . MS has to pay way more than Sony does and it’s just not worth it. So MS buys the studio instead. But at least buying a studio who is keeping their games off their platforms IS providing their customers benefits. PS5 owners don’t benefit from FF7 coming to PC 3 months after PS5 or Xbox never or years later. That’s all I’m saying. neither is great but paying a company to withhold a game from another platform is worse than buying the company. Imo.

 

[Megatron]

Last time I've seen this reality bending argument was years ago when I was on era. It was actually quite common there.

It’s cool if you don’t get it. I can draw you some pictures next time if it helps?

 

[Panajev2001a]

But at least buying a studio who is keeping their games off their platforms IS providing their customers benefits

“Aah, I sleep better knowing this game is never coming out on any other consoles from this multiplatform publisher who was always going to launch the game on my console anyways”… .

 

[Topher]

MS hasnt kept a AAA game off Sony platform since Rise of the Tomb Raider that I can think of. But not because they are saints, because publishers won’t give up the PS install base . MS has to pay way more than Sony does and it’s just not worth it. So MS buys the studio instead. But at least buying a studio who is keeping their games off their platforms IS providing their customers benefits. PS5 owners don’t benefit from FF7 coming to PC 3 months after PS5 or Xbox never or years later. That’s all I’m saying. neither is great but paying a company to withhold a game from another platform is worse than buying the company. Imo.

You are drawing an artificial line at AAA games. It does not matter if the game is AAA or not. It's just a shitty practice regardless of who is doing it. Microsoft does not buy companies "instead" of purchasing exclusivity. Microsoft has done both. As does Sony.

 

[Astray]

Bro, you defend Xbox likes it's your girlfriend. Just stop.

He defends Xbox like a man who has no girlfriend.

 

[MonkeyClaw36]

I’m more baffled by this brand being alive after being fucked over by this.

This was the best burn of the era! Sony is good at making jabs to the opposition.

Saturn presentation: blabla, select outlets. Price 399
Sony PSX presentation: Dude walks up, looks at the audience, bends to the mic. "299". Walks off.

Gotta love em for that.

 

[cireza]

It's just a shitty practice regardless of who is doing it.

Sony being the champions at this, by a large a margin.

Uh, what are you talking about?

Nintendo definitely abused unfair practices in their early days to block content on their consoles.

SEGA certainly didn't pay Konami, Capcom or Bandai to release games on MegaDrive. They simply built an appealing product, took a lot of market share, and publishers eventually saw the opportunity by themselves. SEGA were even porting games themselves during the early days of their 8/16 bits consoles, like Strider, Ghouls'n Ghosts or Final Fight on SEGA-CD etc...

Anyway, these practices simply totally changed when Sony entered because of how much money they had. The marketing campaigns were unprecedented. They totally stole the mind-share at a time when people were massively watching TV. They secured third party games because they were hardly making any games during the first years (and they were most certainly not going to invest in teams to port them lol), and had games blocked from competition as well. Really shitty strategy overall, but it paid, and paved the way for modern practices in our industry.

 

[drganon]

Sony being the champions at this, by a large a margin.

Nintendo definitely abused unfair practices in their early days to block content on their consoles.

SEGA certainly didn't pay Konami, Capcom or Bandai to release games on MegaDrive. They simply built an appealing product, took a lot of market share, and publishers eventually saw the opportunity by themselves. SEGA were even porting games themselves during the early days of their 8/16 bits consoles, like Strider, Ghouls'n Ghosts or Final Fight on SEGA-CD etc...

Anyway, these practices simply totally changed when Sony entered because of how much money they had. The marketing campaigns were unprecedented. They totally stole the mind-share at a time when people were massively watching TV. They secured third party games because they were hardly making any games during the first years (and they were most certainly not going to invest in teams to port them lol), and had games blocked from competition as well. Really shitty strategy overall, but it paid, and paved the way for modern practices in our industry.

Your level of butthurt over 30 year old console wars is truly something to behold. You really need to let it go.

 

[midnightAI]

You are drawing an artificial line at AAA games. It does not matter if the game is AAA or not. It's just a shitty practice regardless of who is doing it. Microsoft does not buy companies "instead" of purchasing exclusivity. Microsoft has done both. As does Sony.

I suppose the difference is MS isnt just buying individual developers, they are purchasing whole publishers, something that Sony hasn't done for a very long time (Psygnosis?)

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So ms let these rumours spread like wildfire for over a week so they can announce hi fi rush?

No fucking way.

It will be something way more substantial.

sarah, phil and booty opening an Only Fans to help pay for the ABK acquisition.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Paying for temporary deals and marketing rights, with infinite marketing budget. Paying for games from third parties and blocking them from competitors etc... Different means, same expected results.

I was in the sad gaming industry for a very short period and it was enough to see that the reality is very different from that.
Most of the time publishers/developers were the ones reaching out to Sony in hopes of getting some sort of deal in exchange for marketing/help (money or other sort of help).
In every single event devs went to Sony PR guy or CM guy asking who they needed to contact for a deal.

Can you really blame Sony for doing those deals?

Is it Sony's fault that Xbox dug itself into a hole in the ground?

 

[jroc74]

You are drawing an artificial line at AAA games. It does not matter if the game is AAA or not. It's just a shitty practice regardless of who is doing it. Microsoft does not buy companies "instead" of purchasing exclusivity. Microsoft has done both. As does Sony.

It really is a special moment when it was fine for MS to use its mindshare advantages with the 360 to get timed (long and short term) exclusives.....yet when Sony does it its bad. And thats not even including Sony and its permanent 3rd party exclusives (Metal Gear Solid 4)

I missed the memo where MS didnt still do timed exclusives this gen. Starting with The Medium.

At some point you cant keep blaming Sony for MS's fuck ups. Are some still thinking MS went on a huge publisher buying spree....because of timed exclusives...and not to bolster Game Pass....

I was in the sad gaming industry for a very short period and it was enough to see that the reality is very different from that.
Most of the time publishers/developers were the ones reaching out to Sony in hopes of getting some sort of deal in exchange for marketing/help (money or other sort of help).
In every single event devs went to Sony PR guy or CM guy asking who they needed to contact for a deal.

Can you really blame Sony for doing those deals?

Is it Sony's fault that Xbox dug itself into a hole in the ground?

Exactly.

MS turns down the deal that lead to Sony doing Spider-Man PS4....yeah MS was approached first.

But its Sony's fault.....

I have no words.

 

[Topher]

I suppose the difference is MS isnt just buying individual developers, they are purchasing whole publishers, something that Sony hasn't done for a very long time (Psygnosis?)

Microsoft has bought individual developers. Ninja Theory. Compulsion. Inxile. Sony has as well. I'm not going to making distinctions there either. Buying companies is buying companies.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This again? How is it not completely clear to everyone who follows the industry closely that both Microsoft and Sony have acquired other companies and paid to keep games off of the other's platform?

The difference is that (aside from Bungie).
1. Sony acquired studios not whole publishers.
2. The acquired studios who largely known for working with Sony and Sony owned most of the IPs.
3. Most importantly, those studios (Bungie and several smaller ones being an exception) have flourished under Sony.

I've said this many times and will say it again. My big reason for being against Xbox acquisitions is because I have no faith in their ability to manage their studios and history has shown that they are more likely to be run into the ground than to flourish. Playground and The Coalition (at least while Rodd Fergusson was in charge) were major exceptions.

 

[LordCBH]

Senjutsu when websites give a bad Xbox game a bad score

 

[midnightAI]

Microsoft has bought individual developers. Ninja Theory. Compulsion. Inxile. Sony has as well. I'm not going to making distinctions there either. Buying companies is buying companies.

Thats why I said 'isnt just', they do buy individual companies but they also buy publishers and buying publishers (especially ones as large as Activision/Blizzard/King and Zenimax) is a pretty major distinction whether you want to make it or not.

 

[Topher]

Thats why I said 'isnt just', they do buy individual companies but they also buy publishers and buying publishers (especially ones as large as Activision/Blizzard/King and Zenimax) is a pretty major distinction whether you want to make it or not.

Sorry......I shouldn't read posts until I'm on my third pot of coffee.

 

[Topher]

Sony being the champions at this, by a large a margin.

I've seen plenty of timed exclusives on Game Pass.

 

[mayham2199]

KOTOR was Xbox exclusive. Sony made the remake exclusive to them.

And no, paying a company to keep a game they are making for everyone just to keep it off the competitor is worse than buying a company. Option 1) gains no value at all for your customers.l because they were already getting the game. Option 2) is at least providing value for your customers. As we know Sony was trying to buy Starfield exclusivity when MS decided to buy Bethesda.

Options 2 also leads to people losing their jobs.

 

[Moridianae]

Bottom line is they ran out and dropped 70+ billion dollars to try and buy their way to victory, but it wasn't exactly the best call.

They've made a lot of mistakes. Day 1 on Game Pass essentially torched games making revenue. But if you take that away, you're gonna hurt your "Netflix for games" model even more. It's a tough situation.

They kinda did this to themselves. I'm really still in disbelief they let this go on for almost two weeks. I'm curious to see by March how much damage it really does to them in HW sales.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Bottom line is they ran out and dropped 70+ billion dollars to try and buy their way to victory, but it wasn't exactly the best call.

They've made a lot of mistakes. Day 1 on Game Pass essentially torched games making revenue. But if you take that away, you're gonna hurt your "Netflix for games" model even more. It's a tough situation.

They kinda did this to themselves. I'm really still in disbelief they let this go on for almost two weeks. I'm curious to see by March how much damage it really does to them in HW sales.

They expected a 40% drop in sales vs last year

 

[Moridianae]

They expected a 40% drop in sales vs last year

That's...brutal.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They expected a 40% drop in sales vs last year

 

[JackMcGunns]

So the only truth is that PlayStation fanboys are the worst?

They talk about “Damage Control”, but they’re the ones trying to do the damage and are out of control

 

[HeWhoWalks]

They talk about “Damage Control”, but they’re the ones trying to do the damage and are out of control

You say this in the face of folks like TimDog and Jez?

Who else has been out of control?

 

[DeepEnigma]

They talk about “Damage Control”, but they’re the ones trying to do the damage and are out of control

 

[Topher]

You say this in the face of folks like TimDog and Jez?

Who else has been out of control?

G Godot25 requested a ban when all this shit started.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

G Godot25 requested a ban when all this shit started.

Oh damn

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

It's amazing that the xbox fanboys can't tell it's MS getting favorable review treatment, whether it's holding back codes and just sending to friendly websites, or having half the positive reviews with "xbox" or "achievements" in the website's name. Then they end up with about half as many reviews, so their biased sites have even more sway.

 

[DeepEnigma]

G Godot25 requested a ban when all this shit started.

Weak men create hard times.

 

[Bond007]

Extent of rumors is their own doing instead of nipping this early.
The damage to the brand right now is massive.


Shoot- my Orlando Fl radio station this morning was covering this under "Todays news" Xbox games going to PS was the headline.
Like- these are still rumors- and its being dispersed to the masses across all forms of media right now. Microsoft could have halted this.

 

[cireza]

I've seen plenty of timed exclusives on Game Pass.

And they were all definitely a numbered entry in a previously multi-platform AAA third party series.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Extent of rumors is their own doing instead of nipping this early.
The damage to the brand right now is massive.


Shoot- my Orlando Fl radio station this morning was covering this under "Todays news" Xbox games going to PS was the headline.
Like- these are still rumors- and its being dispersed to the masses across all forms of media right now. Microsoft could have halted this.

Or, now here me out. They are viral marketing this.

 

[mayham2199]

They expected a 40% drop in sales vs last year

It's wild how I don't think I've seen anyone mention this in the media when it comes to this topic.

 

[mayham2199]

Shoot- my Orlando Fl radio station this morning was covering this under "Todays news" Xbox games going to PS was the headline.
Like- these are still rumors- and its being dispersed to the masses across all forms of media right now. Microsoft could have halted this.

Yep it's like I said before. Even if they go partially multiplat it wont matter. The belief will be they are fully multiplat. It's just like PS and PC. Not all PS games are on PC but that's the way people discuss it. They always say just wait 1 or 2 years even though plenty of games haven't followed that track record.

 

[Topher]

And they were all definitely a numbered entry in a previously multi-platform AAA third party series.

More than one way to look at it, but really......we are arguing over which company is the most/least shittiest. At that point, who cares? They are both shitty.

 

[cireza]

They are both shitty

This I can most certainly agree with.

 

[JackMcGunns]

I know you’re blind, that’s obvious. The point is there IS something happening, but folks are absolutely blowing things out of proportion, so this format was needed to help people calm down, you want to call it “Damage Control”, but that’s the incorrect context, that applies when a company makes a decision and it turns out to be a big mistake and damage control is needed, but in this case there has NOT been any official announcement and everything is pure rumors which they’re about to clarify.

Open your eyes blind man.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I know you’re blind, that’s obvious. The point is there IS something happening, but folks are absolutely blowing things out of proportion, so this format was needed to help people calm down, you want to call it “Damage Control”, but that’s the incorrect context, that applies when a company makes a decision and it turns out to be a big mistake and damage control is needed, but in this case there has NOT been any official announcement and everything is pure rumors which they’re about to clarify.

Open your eyes blind man.

 

[Topher]

I know you’re blind, that’s obvious. The point is there IS something happening, but folks are absolutely blowing things out of proportion, so this format was needed to help people calm down, you want to call it “Damage Control”, but that’s the incorrect context, that applies when a company makes a decision and it turns out to be a big mistake and damage control is needed, but in this case there has NOT been any official announcement and everything is pure rumors which they’re about to clarify.

Open your eyes blind man.

If a company's plans are revealed before they are ready and their customers react in such a negative way that the company has to change their plans and create a special event just to address the issue then that can rightfully be called "damage control".

 

[Astray]

They are so baffled by the rumors, but they also didn't issue a single correction to any of those articles, nor a single denial tweet from the Xbox C-Suite to silence the twitter leakers.

Ergo, all the rumors are real and all the games are coming, they're just gonna be announced piecemeal.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I know I'm blind, that’s obvious.

Totally agreed!

 

[JackMcGunns]

Totally agreed!

Once you get served a big fat nothing burger, we will revisit this.

 

[JackMcGunns]

If a company's plans are revealed before they are ready and their customers react in such a negative way that the company has to change their plans and create a special event just to address the issue then that can rightfully be called "damage control".

You are right, but that only applies if we know for a fact that the rumors are true, the problem is, what you just said is based on an assumption, it’s a rumor that started with talks of HiFi Rush possibly coming to Switch and Sea of Thieves going to other platforms, from that to the entire company going 3rd party like Sega is the definition of blowing things out of proportion. Setting up a podcast to address rumors is a good thing and needed because things are getting out of control, and a lot of that damage is coming from wishful thinking Sony fanboys who would love to see Xbox lose.

I can see Game Pass removing “Xbox” since it’s no longer only tied to Xbox’s, you can play anywhere and there’s no more Xbox Game Studios, it’s now Microsoft Game Studios, so Microsoft Game Pass is one of the rumors I believe to be plausible. So having heard that, I can see how logically one would assume MS is getting rid of Xbox, but that’s not necessarily true, rebranding Game Pass doesn’t necessarily mean Xbox is going away.

 

[Gudji]

Once you get served a big fat nothing burger, we will revisit this.

 

[DJ12]

Well I think we all know one poster that will be requesting a ban...