Tom vs Denzel...who played the better bad guy?

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isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
After watching Collateral, I was pleasantly surprised at how well Cruise pulled off the role of such a ruthless sunnuvabitch. But I am still debating whether his performance outdid Denzel's brilliant showcase in Training Day. Denzel was just such a prick in that film. You wantd to hate his character but you couldn't help be fascinated by him.

So. In your opinion, between Tom and Denzel....

1)Who did the better job at playing the bad guy?

2)Which character did you enjoy watching on screen more?

3)Which character did you hate the most?

4)Who was more ruthless?

5)Which one would you like to see play another bad guy role sooner?
 
1 - 5 Denzel...

Hope that helps! However, as Bish and I have bickered before about this I like seeing Sam Jackson as a bad guy even more!
 
HAOHMARU said:
John Trovolta is the best bad guy...period.
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You sure about that?

I keed I keed...
 
I don't even think they're comparable. They were both presented as bad guys in their respective films, but I think the similarities end there.
 
Socreges said:
As a Caucasian male, I am compelled to choose Tom Cruise for questions 1 through 5.
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I thought as a caucasian male you'd pick Denzel for sure
 
Well, Denzel is so completely bad-ass in Training Day, I'd be hard pressed to see anyone beating him out. That said, I'll go see Collateral with an open mind.
 
Tom Cruise. He is so cold and methodical in this that's it really quite incredible.
The line about how if Max fucks up when getting the information on the 4th and 5th targets, that Vincent will stop at the hospital and put a bullet in Ida's head, the scene where he whips out his gun and shoots the clubowner in the head, and the scene where he is walking back after getting his briefcase back and just bam, caps the guy in the head as he passes by once more for good measure were insane.

Not to mention, the club scene is like the epitome of badass. Sorry Denzel.
 
Because of that I thought for sure you'd pick him as a "more like real life" bad guy
 
Which is what makes his performance in Training Day stand out all the more...

BTW, Cruise has played the same cocky ass character in every movie since Top Gun...who really cares?
 
Blackace said:
You saying that beause Tom is white so you pick him make me go Ugh...
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If you thought I was serious, then I understand you being so uptight.

But it's still not at all cool to suggest that I would think black people are commonly criminals. Not so much that I take it personally, but I don't like being drawn into that shit.
 
Well just the same as saying that he was better because he is white.. you start playing with those issues and people are going to take it the wrong way...
 
I haven't seen Collateral yet, but I'll throw my two cents in there since I've seen most TC and DW flicks.

Both are very damn good actors, but I'll have to say that TC has much more range, has chosen better scripts, and been in better movies than DW has, Oscar be damned.

DW's characters hold a piece of DW in them, they aren't as diverse as TC's latest roles. It's not a racist thing, it's not that DW didn't deserve the Oscar for Training Day. It's merely the way I see them, without seeing Collateral.

DW was UNBELIEVABLE in Glory, unfortunately for him, TC was better in The Last Samauri directed by the same actor. It's just the way I see it though.
 
DJ_Tet said:
I haven't seen Collateral yet, but I'll throw my two cents in there since I've seen most TC and DW flicks.

Both are very damn good actors, but I'll have to say that TC has much more range, has chosen better scripts, and been in better movies than DW has, Oscar be damned.

DW's characters hold a piece of DW in them, they aren't as diverse as TC's latest roles. It's not a racist thing, it's not that DW didn't deserve the Oscar for Training Day. It's merely the way I see them, without seeing Collateral.

DW was UNBELIEVABLE in Glory, unfortunately for him, TC was better in The Last Samauri directed by the same actor. It's just the way I see it though.
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Good post DJ. But to make a fair and balanced judgement you must go see Collateral....it's that good!
 
I haven't seen Training Day but I have seen Collateral. That said, Tom did an excellent job playing Vincent. I really enjoyed parts of the dialogue and shots within the movie.
 
I find it hilarious that people use Range and Tom Cruise in the same sentence. He's played the exact same guy for over ten years, it wasn't until after Jerry maguire that he started taking roles that were outside of his norm, Born on the fourth is the exception. Before that he' wasn't even acting. He was Tom Cruise in every film, every character had the exact same mannerisms, facial expressions, inflections, etc etc etc. @_@
 
karasu said:
I find it hilarious that people use Range and Tom Cruise in the same sentence. He's played the exact same guy for over ten years, it wasn't until after Jerry maguire that he started taking roles that were outside of his norm, Born on the fourth is the exception. Before that he' wasn't even acting. He was Tom Cruise in every film, every character had the exact same mannerisms, facial expressions, inflections, etc etc etc. @_@
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Don't hold TC's early movies against him. I agree though, I used to hate Cruise. He's one of my favorites now though.

I plan to see Collateral this weekend Isamu.
 
DJ_Tet said:
Don't hold TC's early movies against him. I agree though, I used to hate Cruise. He's one of my favorites now though.

I plan to see Collateral this weekend Isamu.
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I dig his work now too. After Magnolia I was sold.
 
Interesting question but I won't answer. I wasn't a Denzel fan until Training day, and I hated Tom Cruise until Collateral. It's hard to say, which ones is better or worse. But I just like gritty noir films with characters on the edge. Which is why I love Michael Mann's films (except for Ali, good film, but if you've watched the Documentary, "When We Were Kings" the film didn't add anything new to what I knew about Ali. I'm a huge boxing fan and Alui is my idol).

Denzel was outstanding in Training Day! I actually loved the character and it was good to see him on the edge and his acting was phenominal, I feel the same way about Tom Cruise in Collateral. So I won't decide, because the decision will come down to personal preference. And I'm biased and can't be truly fair.

If you guys EVER get the chance, check out Michael Mann's first film....Thief (w/ James Caan). I love this movie and how the story is built up, and the decision/rationalization that James Caan must make at the end of the movie makes it all the more powerful. One of my top 5 movies of all time.
 
As far as I can remember, Denzel only killed one person in Training Day. Meanwhile, Cruise killed just about everybody in sight.
 
1)Who did the better job at playing the bad guy?

Denzel was definitely sleazier.

2)Which character did you enjoy watching on screen more?

Vincent, easily.

3)Which character did you hate the most?

Denzel. I didn't really hate him though, because he was charismatic.

4)Who was more ruthless?

Denzel.
Vincent probably could have killed Max at the end if he went for clip that he dropped. He knew he was dying though, and just sat down and talked before he went. If Denzel was in the same situation, he would have done his best to kill Max.

5)Which one would you like to see play another bad guy role sooner?

Probably Denzel, because I don't think Cruise could top his Vincent role.

The real question is who would win in a fight, Creasy from Man On Fire or Vincent? Because Vincent smokes Denzel from training day in a heartbeat.

As cool as Denzel was in MOF...Vincent is probably the best Assassain I've seen in a movie. Better then The Jackal...who else is there? There's only one thing for me to do, see Collateral again and make an informed decision.
 
Tom got extensive lessons in sword fighting for The Last Samurai, and he got extensive lessons in shooting for Collateral. He could play Dante from Devil may Cry if they ever made a movie version :p.
 
Yeah but you gotta remember that was just ONE day. And the objective of the day was he had business to attend to, while initiating a rookie to how things "really" are. Now it SEEMS to me in collaterals case Cruise was on assignment so of course he's got a higher kill count.
 
karasu said:
I find it hilarious that people use Range and Tom Cruise in the same sentence. He's played the exact same guy for over ten years, it wasn't until after Jerry maguire that he started taking roles that were outside of his norm, Born on the fourth is the exception. Before that he' wasn't even acting. He was Tom Cruise in every film, every character had the exact same mannerisms, facial expressions, inflections, etc etc etc. @_@
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How about Cocktail? A Few Good Men? The Firm? I think these are very good movies that Tom Cruise did early in his career (pre-Jerry McGuire) and he didn't act nearly the same way in any of them as you say.

C'mon man. Don't sleep on Tom Cruise's early films. Yeah, he did act similarly in a few of his movies. But he also showed variety in a few of them too.

Kruza
 
Blackace said:
Because of that I thought for sure you'd pick him as a "more like real life" bad guy
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lol

I have not seen collateral so I cannot comment. I do like denzel though.
 
Eddie Murphy already rules that area of acting...
 
Kruza said:
How about Cocktail? A Few Good Men? The Firm? I think these are very good movies that Tom Cruise did early in his career (pre-Jerry McGuire) and he didn't act nearly the same way in any of them as you say.

C'mon man. Don't sleep on Tom Cruise's early films. Yeah, he did act similarly in a few of his movies. But he also showed variety in a few of them too.

Kruza
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Agreed. I'm a huge fan of TC and a lot of his earlier films rock. A Few Good Men is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time! Cruise and Jack OWNED that fucking movie. And Cocktail rocks too, if only because of how fucking hot Elizabeth Shue looked in that picture. My God she had a slammin bod! The Firm is great and don't forget Days of Thunder and of course Top Gun and Risky Business are no brainers.
 
Santo said:
As far as I can remember, Denzel only killed one person in Training Day. Meanwhile, Cruise killed just about everybody in sight.
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He admitted to killing another person on vacation, which lead to the killing he did beforehand. And he paid money to have his trainee Jake Hoyt turfed. Lord only knows how many murders he's been involved with before. Oh yeah, and he's doing all this while being a COP. That adds heavily to the "evil as fuck" scale.

Alonzo Harris character wasn't about killing people persay. It was about power. He exhibited it during his staged drug bust, scaring the shit out of the occuptants of the car and taking their stash, and then just left them in the middle of the road instead of arresting them. He exhibited his power over Hoyt when he basically forced him to smoke PCP at gunpoint. He exhibited it when he held one of the molesters up against a fence with a knife in his face, then smashed his nuts in with the butt of his gun, only to leave his ass on the ground instead of hauling him in. He exhibited it when he busted into a woman's home with a fake warrant and basically stole money from them. He exhibited it when he used an illegal procedure on a man in a wheelchair to cough up some drugs he had swallowed. He exhibited it when he went into "The Jungle", with the whole damn neighbourhood seemingly under his thumb. He exhibited it during the raid on Roger's house. And of course, he exhibited it when he paid for Hoyt's execution.

That's why Alonzo was such an evil motherfucker...he didn't have to kill anyone to get people to fear him. He simply had to let them know he could do just that.



Kruza said:
How about Cocktail? A Few Good Men? The Firm?
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Cocky ass bartender.

Cocky ass naval officier.

Cocky ass lawyer.


These of course fit in well with his other roles...


Cocky ass pimp.

Cocky ass pilot.

Cocky ass race car driver.

Cocky ass car salesman and brother.

Cocky ass agent.

Cocky ass pervert.


Like I said previously, the similiarity in his roles has never bothered me...I've enjoyed several of his movies, and find his character to be entertaining, so that's all I care. But for someone to knock Denzel for playing the same character in every movie while ignoring Cruise is just silly.
 
Shinobi said:
Cocky ass bartender.

Cocky ass naval officier.

Cocky ass lawyer.


These of course fit in well with his other roles...


Cocky ass pimp.

Cocky ass pilot.

Cocky ass race car driver.

Cocky ass car salesman and brother.

Cocky ass agent.

Cocky ass pervert.
Click to expand...
Don't forget 'Cocky ass vampire'. ;)
 
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