Melchiah
Member
Well, here's to hoping the sequel, which I'm very much looking forward to, includes even more adventuring.
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Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition |OT| Lara shot first
- Thread starter Chance Hale
- Start date
Well, here's to hoping the sequel, which I'm very much looking forward to, includes even more adventuring.
Thankfully I don't care about that trophy. I got 950/1000 in Tomb Raider 360 and I'm planning on getting 950/1000 for XB1. I just... really didn't want a second playthrough just for 25 dodge counters, lol.
Tomb Raider has more shooting focus than that, and you can hardly call the rest of it exploration and platforming. Platforming for dummies, maybe. It's all extremely guided and easy. Even if it was a bit hyperbolic, it gets the sentiment across. The game focuses heavily on the shootbang and the rest of the gameplay is extremely dumbed down. Most of the rest of the stuff is just following simple paths to the next shootout or scripted action sequences. Lara's mansion in the PS1 games had more challenging platforming and level design than the reboot.
Anniversary had pretty much none of the marketing the reboot had. Square spent a ridiculous amount marketing this game. Besides that, all I'm asking for is a focus on challenging gameplay other than shooting, not to necessarily go back to outdated mechanics. Are you saying that challenge is outdated? Should games just become movies?
There are a couple of large semi-open environments: Mountain Village, Shanty Town, the beach. They're mostly just areas where linear paths cross, and the relics and documents are along the critical paths. None of the collectibles are hidden well, nor are they a challenge to get. At most you just have to shoot open a door using the specific weapon/tool required. There are 7 optional tombs and none of them present a challenge that takes more than a couple of minutes to get past. I'm not necessarily against glowing markers pointing out your destination, I'm against the entire path being super obvious and unchallenging. The old Tomb Raiders didn't have such markers but they also weren't easier just because the environments were smaller. You had to figure things out. Even though the environments are bigger in the reboot they are less complex. They have a lot more empty space and the linear paths are painted with white paint all along them so you always know where to go and you need no skill to get there.
I wasn't saying you would have felt differently. I'm saying that given that this is a port for a game that came out a year ago, people that really care about the brand are more likely to have played it the first time around and people that didn't like it then are even less likely to play it again. Also, the more you pay for something the more invested you are in believing that it was worth the cost to justify the cost. Plus the game would be especially well received by those who feel it fills a slot in a limited launch lineup. The cards are stacked in favor of this thread being more positive than the original launch thread.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
considering getting this,
how is the MP population on PS4?
how is the MP population on PS4?
you dont need a second playthrough
enemies absolutely respawn postgame
i got my 25 dodge counter kill trophy by just bouncing between shanty town and the area before that where you have to grab the bird eggs and light the statues as challenges
I think they eventually stop respawning. Yesterday I didn't run into anyone for 10+ minutes. I'll boot it up now... Hopefully your post acts as a good luck charm.
edit: Hmmph... I'm getting prompted for a 245MB update on XB1. Maybe they patched in more frequent enemy respawns for the end game.
I need some tips...
I've just got to the part where Lara is on her way back to the monastery after repairing the boat and sailing inland. I've just got past the Stormguard and have now got to the point where you need to rescue Sam from Mathias but, fuck me, trying to get past all the Stormguard warriors is just impossible. Anyone got any advice on how best to handle the situation?
NullPointer
Member
Melchiah
Member
It was pretty hard, but I managed to clear it with shotgun and rifle. Use the scattered explosives to your advantage, and aim the shielded guards' heads. Prepare to run from them on occasion. Also the dodge-counter works when there aren't more of them.
See, I tried that but it just isn't working. I thought climbing up the different shacks and such would give me some sort of escape but the Stormguard just follow me up there. There really is no escaping them. I have the shotgun completely unmodified and the rifle, which has been completely modified. I also have the napalm arrowheads which don't really seem to have any effect on the enemies.
Melchiah
Member
There isn't a place where they wouldn't follow you. Just try to keep distance, use those scattered explosives when they're near, and blast them with the shotty when they get close. Dunno about how it is with an unmodified shotty, but about 3-4 shots took them down with a modified one, depending on how good my aim was. During the last wave I had to retreat to the first area, and use the rifle as I was out of shotgun ammo.
An update if anyone's interested - the latest PS4 firmware update seemed to have solved the problem. I beat the game last night, and I'll probably go back to it at some point to get the rest of the collectibles.
Melchiah
Member
I wonder did it fix the save bug as well?
boredandlazy
Member
Playing through this on PS4 at the moment, and to the people who say they should've locked it at 30fps. No freaking way, although it's not doing it all the time this game is freaking beautiful when it's running at 60fps.
FrankWza
Member
I had fun playing through this. It is a gorgeous game. The jumping, climbing,grappling aspect are the best I've experienced in a game. No clunky bs or any accidental falling to death. Clean tight and responsive controls. Assassins Creed can take a page or two from this game. Only downsides were it was a little repetitive and a little too easy yet it still flowed well somehow.
Hellshadow
Member
Quick question: I only need the chatterbox (conversations) trophy to get the platinum. I missed a couple in the beginning so i had to start a new game. Will the trophy pop after the missed conversations or do I have to get all the conversations over again? Thanks.
Finished this bad boy the other day. Loved every minute of it. Amazing game, and it looks great. I played on PS4, and man the high frame rate was apparent right away, even something like the title screen just looks interesting. I know you PC guys have been playing at higher frame rates forever now, but as a console gamer, 1080p at around 60fps is VERY noticeable. I can feel the dips when it gets down into the 40s or 30s, but it's worth it for the other 80 percent of the time when it is running smoothly.
I am going back and trying to get all the collectibles. The DLC tomb is glitched on my list though, so I don't think I can get 100 percent, but it doesn't count toward the trophies if I understand things right.
LOL at some of the relics though. The one's that are knockoffs. Who comes to this evil fucking island with "made in China" replicas of artifacts that could be found there, and hides them around the island in precarious locations? It's so weird.
I am going back and trying to get all the collectibles. The DLC tomb is glitched on my list though, so I don't think I can get 100 percent, but it doesn't count toward the trophies if I understand things right.
LOL at some of the relics though. The one's that are knockoffs. Who comes to this evil fucking island with "made in China" replicas of artifacts that could be found there, and hides them around the island in precarious locations? It's so weird.
Krappadizzle
Member
Welcome to the club. Now you understand why so many were championing 60fps for sooooo long.
It might of been said 1000 times already, but this game is reminding me of UC2 alot, apart from the more open areas here and there. In the gunplay and platforming, to the consistency of it all. Really solid game.
Im having fun with it. i see alot of last gen in it at times, but it looks great alot of the time too.
Id love to see a sequel to this, but with more influence from the originals, alot more, in regards to level design and enemies, i want to be isolated deep in a complex tomb being chased by mummies and weird creatures, while solving cool puzzles, dual wielding pistols, but with these mechanics and gameplay/gunplay and visuals.
Im having fun with it. i see alot of last gen in it at times, but it looks great alot of the time too.
Id love to see a sequel to this, but with more influence from the originals, alot more, in regards to level design and enemies, i want to be isolated deep in a complex tomb being chased by mummies and weird creatures, while solving cool puzzles, dual wielding pistols, but with these mechanics and gameplay/gunplay and visuals.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Not much to say on my second time round, except Lara looks perfect and exactly like her original concept drawings, whereas she looked Asian at times on PS3. 60fps is nice too, though it does highlight some slight jankiness in her animation. Tressfx, though not as impressive as on PC, still looks VERY nice. The stuff on PC is straight out of shampoo commercials, so this is more realistic I guess, lol. Great job CD.
Been playing this the past couple days on PS4. Great port. One question though, is it just me or is the PS4 version really dark? I've readjusted the settings on my TV using test patterns and used the in game brightness adjustment a lot but the game seems to suffer from crushed blacks almost all the time. I haven't had any issues in other games.
Later Alligator
Member
finished this tonight... man is it pretty
overall a 7.5 - 8/10, some of the sections where this game just tosses enemies at you are brutal. lots of really cool parts though
overall a 7.5 - 8/10, some of the sections where this game just tosses enemies at you are brutal. lots of really cool parts though
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
For me, they partially respawned the first time I re-entered each area, but after I killed them once they were gone for good, and I pinballed between areas plenty.
SolidChamp
Banned
Thanks for that OPINION. I'll stick with my own.
The game is fantastic. So good that I bought it twice. The DE is totally worth it.
SolidChamp
Banned
It's not just you. I think it's supposed to be a stark contrast to the torch being lit.
Daffy Duck
Member
I hope the sequel is more original tomb raider with lots more tombs and exploration.
I went back to the original game a week back and it's surprising how brutal it is, no checkpoints, no hand holding no nothing.
It's quite jarring how simple modern day games are.
I went back to the original game a week back and it's surprising how brutal it is, no checkpoints, no hand holding no nothing.
It's quite jarring how simple modern day games are.
It's not an opinion that the game is severely dumbed-down and requires very little thought and skill compared to previous games. The opinion is that it is a bad thing that it's been severely dumbed-down and requires very little thought and skill.
molnizzle
Member
Those previous games sound downright awful. Puzzles in general are miserable, and exploration needs to be kept in check to keep me from losing interest. I feel like this game does a downright perfect job of that. Just enough exploration to be fun, but not too much that I get bored. I love the upgrades that make it easier to track down the collectibles to. I don't even bother with collectibles in 90% of the games I play, but I got 100% in Tomb Raider.
Fuck puzzles. =)
Having to think and actually do something in a game is boring?
Couldn't we just have a super easy mode that also adds explosions everywhere or a mode where you can just watch the cutscenes and look at the collectibles instead of making the game dumb for everyone?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Aviatrix is best outfit
molnizzle
Member
Or just play the games that punish you like that if that's what you're in to? Game design tropes have progressed to where they are for a reason, most people don't want to solve complicated puzzles when they're trying to unwind and play some video games. There's more of us than there are of you, I'm afraid.
Tomb Raider didn't punish you... They were very well designed and challenging in a fair way. I wouldn't even characterize them as being particularly difficult. Challenge and difficulty are different things. Just because the audience for movies is broader doesn't mean the video games industry should just roll over and start making movies. Games with gameplay more complex than shooting and holding forward sold well and still sell well, especially with actual marketing and brand recognition.
How am I to just go play the games I want to play when the games I want to play are becoming games you watch? Why does someone have to lose? Why should people who like to play games give them up when games can accommodate everyone with modes?
If even the slightest bit of challenging gameplay is too stressful why not watch a movie instead? It's like you're saying books should be replaced by picture books because most readers don't want to be hassled with the reading part of reading books. There are multiple kinds of games and multiple kinds of gamers. They shouldn't just become one kind of game for the largest group.
Yes it is.
Always-honest
Banned
This was not a game where you just watched the game being played for you. They just shifted the focus a bit. Puzzles were easier, yes.
No... the platforming and puzzles being much less involved is very observable... Whether or not that is a bad thing is an opinion.
That's like having a 2 foot tall rod and a 1 foot tall rod and saying that it's an opinion that the 2 foot tall rod is taller.
Not a bit. Heavy shift towards combat. The platforming also wasn't challenging at all and the level design was very simple. Saying you watch is hyperbole but it's just an easy way of expressing that the game takes less involvement from the player outside of shooting and features a lot more cinematics and conveying the feeling that has. Obvious hyperbole is obvious on purpose.
Melchiah
Member
It is an opinion. I've played the first three entries on the PS1, and they weren't any more cerebral than the last one. Many of the trial-and-error puzzles and obstacles just needed few tries to get through, much like many of the platformers. They did need more platforming skills, but I'm not in the least disappointed of seeing that go, as I've always hated the needless repetition it involves.
Most of the firefights in the old entries involved just jumping back and forth, as can be seen here at 0:27.
And there certainly was more shooting than the video claims. In the new one you actually had to put some thought on how to approach the encounters. I did like the fact it had less shooting and more adventuring than the Uncharted series, but there's always room for even more of the latter.
Always-honest
Banned
Yes, more combat. But better combat imo.
Puzzles and platforming a bit too easy for my taste too. Hopefully they will take this in consideration for the next game. Still, it's hard to put the game down. That's kind of an achievement on its own.
I'm at 88% trophies unlocked but sadly doubt I'll ever see platinum.
Multiplayer is so janky and boring. I've given it an honest chance and I've tried every mode and made it to level 20
No way I'll have the patience to play to level 60 though.
I just hate when devs throw tacked on multiplayer and put trophies on it
Multiplayer is so janky and boring. I've given it an honest chance and I've tried every mode and made it to level 20
No way I'll have the patience to play to level 60 though.
I just hate when devs throw tacked on multiplayer and put trophies on it
Diablohead
Member
I always forget that the game even has multi, it really did not need it.
Exactly
But if I'm going to suffer through this mp I have to do it really soon because honestly its already ghost Town like now, and come march when games really start coming no one is going to be playing tomb raider
They were definitely more cerebral. For one you didn't have glowing white paint everywhere showing you the way and the level design was much more complex. There's probably more thought needed in St. Francis' Folly alone than the entirety of TR13.
Here's a simple "puzzle"y platforming section from Palace Midas:
Your timing, your aiming, it all matters. TR13 didn't even have anything that challenging in terms of platforming. It had a few parts where you held forward while jumping occasionally while everything blew up around you but generally there was no skill involved. The old games also had traps to figure out how to avoid and then use skill to avoid them.
Also, the bodycount video is only counting human encounters in both games, as generally killing animals is not considered as bad as killing humans and animals tend not to get into gunfights with you. Lara encounters some humans multiple times in Tomb Raider 1 but she only encounters those humans. She only kills that many. As the games progressed it got out of hand with more and more human enemies in the games, but at least the games didn't shift focus to combat. You could just ignore most of the enemies in the games if you wanted. In TR13 the enemies pretty much are the game.
Of course it was better combat, but it didn't have much to be better than. There was just too much of it, not much variety within itself, and not enough of anything else. I think they could make a good Tomb Raider off what they made, it just wasn't this game. I don't have confidence they'll make the sequel any less of a shootbang.
I like how this is so biased that you can turn it around and works exactly the same; learning how to point a crosshair at something took just as much trial and error to learn when it was new to you as playing a platformer or solving a puzzle does, the only difference is that it's so dominant in high-profile games it has become second nature to regular players in a way other mechanics haven't been given the chance to.
Melchiah
Member
That's funny in the sense that I'm not a shooter fan.
I personally disliked the constant firefights in the Uncharted series.I'll give you that difference, but I don't thing the glowing markers for relics and whatnot, was negative at all. It was still fun to find a way to those collectibles. I don't think there was anything cerebral in the old way, where you just had to look around every corner to find them, and your way to the next area. It didn't require thinking, only persistence.
There definitely was more human opponents in the old Tomb Raiders, particularly in the 2nd one, IIRC. And you couldn't ignore most of them. There wasn't as many of them as in the latest entry, but more than the video claims anyway.
But finding them was very rudimentary. I mean... look at the Metroid games. Some of them show you where collectibles are on the map, but finding them and getting to them still takes skill. Metroid Prime 3 was even a 3D metroid with map markers for collectibles.That's funny in the sense that I'm not a shooter fan.
I'll give you that difference, but I don't thing the glowing markers for relics and whatnot, was negative at all. It was still fun to find a way to those collectibles. I don't think there was anything cerebral in the old way, where you just had to look around every corner to find them, and your way to the next area. It didn't require thinking, only persistence.
There definitely was more human opponents in the old Tomb Raiders, particularly in the 2nd one, IIRC. And you couldn't ignore most of them. There wasn't as many of them as in the latest entry, but more than the video claims anyway.
Besides, that's not what I'm talking about when I'm talking about the glowing paint. Every ledge, every wall you can jump up, every rope is dowsed in the same glowing white paint. It's everywhere. The paths are very simple and linear without it, though.
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the body count vid. They are only comparing to Tomb Raider 1 and that's all of the human enemies it had. A lot of fans think that the following Tomb Raider games had too many human enemies and the reboot had even more than they had. And you can avoid a lot of the human enemies in TR2 and 3. The ones that don't carry projectile weapons can be fairly harmless. Even with the amount of human enemies 2, 3, and 4 had the games still didn't focus on combat. Even if you did kill them they were short battles and they didn't design the levels to be shooting arenas. The reboot designs some levels around combat and a lot of encounters are very drawn-out repetitive fights against waves of dudes. The smaller encounters were okay, but shantytown was a slog.
NullPointer
Member
That's as good as saying "Fuck Tomb Raider" - which would be fine as Tomb Raider fans could enjoy their mix of exploration and puzzles, and people who wanted something more action focused could play Uncharted, or a million other action games. Now that choice is gone and people who never enjoyed the original games celebrate that fact.
Its been fucked up to watch unfold, but it is what it is.