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'Too Human cover story in EGM - "I will never give gaf an exclusive" says Dyack'
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HalfwayOrb
Member
u guys remind me of the fat comic guy from the simpsons :lol
Kobold said:I'm not saying I don't understand people who are displeased with a game. Hell, I'm a game reviewer, I've played polished turds as much as the next guy here. However, maybe I don't like the game but others do. For example I don't like Ninja Gaiden. Way too hard and 'clunky' feeling in my eyes. I like the Prince of Persia trilogy far and far more. So from this perspective, as a reviewer, I should also be able to take in not just what I think and I want and me, me, me, me! but also what would be appealing to others and share an objective look at the product.
This doesn't have to do with a score or anything, but it has to do with factors outside of that. I don't know what budgets they had, what hurdles they crossed, what other factors attributed to the execution of the final game as such which made it good or bad. Plus the fact that there are people who don't share my opinion and actually liked the game or didn't like the game. This is the unthankful task of the reviewer. Set down your opinions, but don't let those opinions close your mind to the facts at hand and look at the subject objectively and put it in perspective in your own mind.
So, it's pretty easy for people here to rant on Denis of Jaffe, but they are not 'the team' that made the game, nor do these people know them personally to be able to judge them as such they have done in this thread.
If you think you know someone from a set of interviews, and like to call someone on some supposed personal faults as a result you really need to examine yourself closely. Your knowledge of life is in short supply.
Especially since the reason is 'You don't like their game' bubububu. I simply don't see the reasoning that goes into peoples tirades to burn someone down. You are just conditioning yourself to set up his or her next game as a bad game, even though, if you approached it from another perspective, you might love it and it would rival the second coming of Jesus Christ for you.
See how this hype and these opinions and all this bullshit is all spewed forth not from 'fact', but from a perspective you are forcing over yourself because of some kind of frustration, that quite possibly has nothing to do with gaming.
So, sure anyone 'may' do that, its fine by me. I'm just saying I don't see the logic and reasoning behind it, not to mention that it is in no way constructive for you or that person in the long and short run. So why bother cursing at someone you don't know, just because you did not like their game?
Did you like Marathon, or Myth before you played Halo? I'm pretty sure the hypocrisy of this whole thing is humongous when you are looking into this. I bet most of these people hate games that their supposed 'gods' (also quite stupid to idolize people, don't get me wrong) have helped create. It's just silly in my eyes.
In a perfect world you wouldn't need to, now would you?
Plus, I did say that you can talk constructive critisism? (obviously!!) I never said you should just let your gripes die with you. I'm talking about this perverted orgy of personal insults to the persons of Jaffe and Dyack which are simply unbased and the product of ignorance. it has nothing to do with critisism, it's plain simply a gorgefest for the jelous, frustrated and ignorant on the mauled body of public figures.
Well, I don't really disagree with anything you said.
But still, I'll chew my apple on the fence where you get to call names to the ones that set themselves up for it.
I've got nothing personal against game developers in general or someone in particular. Hell, I'm one myself and I do know what a deadline, a budget and a license means when you look at what you COULD do and what you actually DID.
But in the same time my vision blurs and there's a little mouse playing wardrums on my shoulder whenever I stumble upon a developer, a mouth, a boombox with a microphone and a plan to hype.
I really, really, really hate that. Be humble for fck's sake. Yeah, sales are king and money's the blood that keeps the industry rolling down the road, but you can have them without using flamboyant words.
You just have to make the best game you can, whatever the time constraints or the license or the team you have are.
It's easy.
It's called "do your job".
ps. Just for the record, Soulblighter and ZOE2 ARE my favourite games of all time so far (never played Marathon as I never own a Mac at the time).
MightyHedgehog
Member
Nah...though I do sometimes have to check the url in the addy bar to make sure. This thread was kinda slow to start...and then it hit 88 MPH. NGAF servers will explode even before E3 at the current rate.PhatSaqs said:
This thread is fucking amazing, better than a cup of coffee in the morning. Everything is progressing in great hilarious fashion, and then jaffe comes in and fuckin bom zal droppen on all the haters mamas. Awesome. Come back Denis, dont let the haters get you down, chime in again, add more to the legend this thread has become.
Too Human looks to be the shit, im anticipating it hugely
But assuming any of that is automatically how it should be and therefore is the standard, is irresponsible. If I am a sincere person, and I have a passion for the game I am developing and a vision, suddenly I am wrong to tell people about that?Frank said:
It doesn't work that way. Hype is created in your mind, it doesn't come out of a developers mouth. In fact, again the hypocrasy comes around the corner. How come some games are hyped and some aren't? It's because of the perception of the people, not of the utterances of the developer who just wants to share his vision and passion.
We make it something it's not. We make it the second coming, while a developer just let's you know what he's all about while making this game. You perceive and process this into some weird expectation.
Also, maybe, if developers just 'did what they had to do' the best games never would have gotten made? Maybe those superior games had features that were put in accidentually, as well as some bugs or flaws are put in acidentually. It's just a twisted way of looking at things that is not really fair.
I put Marathon etc. as examples or a series of games that were maybe ( I wouldnt know either, just a possible example that sprung to mind) average in a lot of peoples eyes, ending in a high quality product that got a lot of recognition.
But yea, obviously people should make up their own mind, but at least keep it civil as a sign of their intelligence and respect for what they might not know.
BudokaiMR2
Member
davidjaffe said:You guys didn't run me off...I've been here the whole time, just reaidng and lurking
And Dennis, don't let the haters get you down. With some of them, you just can't win. And I really mean that. I mean, I still get people telling me I'm overrated like it's some kind of insult when I've been fucking telling THEM that I'm overrated for over a year. I mean, do you haters think I actually think I am as talented as Kojima and/or Miyamoto? Do you guys think we don't KNOW that GOD OF WAR is not meant to stand toe to toe (combat mechanics wise) with DMC and NG? Hell, tell me something I don't know...like why your mom's twat was so fucking loose last night. That's info I'm looking for, you know?
But yeah, It's hard to get some of the haters to see that I don't really care. What am I going to do, stop making games because some people don't like me or my work? It would seem that is the goal for them as they put so much time into typing up the L'll insults n stuff....
...but I dig GAF...it's a fun place. And alot of the guys/gals here are really nice and supportive (even if they don't dig my work). So to those guys, I say thanks!
But to all of you douchbag name callers, bring it on baby
David
Holy shit that was awesome. My <3 for Gaf just quadrupled.
I am seriously going out to hunt down GoW tomorrow. I have of course played it but I have been in Japan for a while and haven't picked up my own copy, but dammit that post was so badass I am going to go find it and kick that games ass.
<3 <3 That is the kind of shit Denis needs to dish out to shut the haters up.
Denis Dyack
Banned
Frank said:
Excellent start Frank - I am glad you find it is so easy. Now please for the "record", who are you? What company do you work for? What games have you made? Please post some links to some interviews you have done. Stop by and say hello at E3 and we can talk about what you hate and what you consider humble.
I think it is easy to hide behind anonymity and difficult to post as yourself. David, myself and other developers who do, immediately set ourselves up for this garbage. We all have our reasons for doing what we do. Personally, I do it because I enjoy the honesty of the approach despite all the negative ramifications.
David, thanks for the support and kind words! God of War was an excellent game and one of my personal favorites. I look forward to playing your next game!
For all those haters who think you are clever by doing things like typing your name backwards, you are doing yourself a disservice. Kobold is right on the money, you dont know me or frankly much about the games industry at all. The English language is an imperfect medium of communication. Clips, quotes from interviews are small slices of reality. Forums are even worse, and this one is perhaps the worst.
I believe in what are trying to do as developers. We want to make a positive difference in the industry. Hopefully we can. If we cant so be it but at least we tried. If you dont like what I say, then dont listen. If you dont like Too Human, great I would love to hear about it. If you do like it even better, then we feel we have accomplished something.
If you dont like how I look well I really dont give a damn.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
This thread has been pretty negative for the most part, so I'd just like to say that I really enjoyed Eternal Darkness, and I also thoroughly enjoyed Twin Snakes.
I think Silicon Knights has what it takes to make Too Human a special game. I'm looking forward to it this year, hopefully. Epic scale adventures are right up my alley.
I think Silicon Knights has what it takes to make Too Human a special game. I'm looking forward to it this year, hopefully. Epic scale adventures are right up my alley.
PhoenixDark
Banned
:lol :loldavidjaffe said:You guys didn't run me off...I've been here the whole time, just reaidng and lurking
And Dennis, don't let the haters get you down. With some of them, you just can't win. And I really mean that. I mean, I still get people telling me I'm overrated like it's some kind of insult when I've been fucking telling THEM that I'm overrated for over a year. I mean, do you haters think I actually think I am as talented as Kojima and/or Miyamoto? Do you guys think we don't KNOW that GOD OF WAR is not meant to stand toe to toe (combat mechanics wise) with DMC and NG? Hell, tell me something I don't know...like why your mom's twat was so fucking loose last night. That's info I'm looking for, you know?
But yeah, It's hard to get some of the haters to see that I don't really care. What am I going to do, stop making games because some people don't like me or my work? It would seem that is the goal for them as they put so much time into typing up the L'll insults n stuff....
...but I dig GAF...it's a fun place. And alot of the guys/gals here are really nice and supportive (even if they don't dig my work). So to those guys, I say thanks!
But to all of you douchbag name callers, bring it on baby
David
Jaffe FTW!
Mods: keep this thread unlocked. I'm waiting for Miyamoto to post:lol
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I don't think anyone should kiss their ass, but I don't get why GAF can't bear to be at least civil to game designers. Forum would be a bit more interesting if they did more than lurk most the time.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Musashi Wins! said:
It's the insular-net. What do you expect?
Denis Dyack said:
I must critique on this. You do say a lot of outlandish things, but that is part of your job description, you dont have to apologise for it no matter how much people mock you, especially considering you are not a professional pr guy. Peter Moore on the other hand, he should know better than to spout all the retarded stuff he says. Really stand your ground, you got nothing to be ashamed of.
As a fan of SK since the beginning(pc stuff) i am kind of dissapointed in the direcction the games are heading, your games used to simple and fun, now you guys are trying to make things complicated for no apparent reason. I can understand that you are trying to add depth to your games, which is good, but please add it in a way that is either natural or invisible.
And good luck with too human, it looks to be a vast improvement in production values (which I assume that you learned from the Twin Snakes experience).
Denis Dyack said:
Hello there, you bad person you.
My name is Cristian Soare and I'm a little humble servant of the corporate machine.
I'm a game designer for Gameloft (POPWW, King Kong and now MI3 are my own spurtings in the game world). Indeed, my own dwealings on creating games could be seen as trivial, considering that mobile games are considered "a kid's endevour" even by the ones that are considered to be making "a kid's endeavour" by the mass-media. Well, I could go a bit into that direction and clarify a few things about making games for mobiles but I guess now it's not the time nor the place, although I'll be happy to try to shatter any poor impression you might have about it. Also, I'm only a mere 3 years into the industry.
Now, coming back to the bad person thing I just said.
If you go back a few posts (I think it's on page 9) you will see that my little rant was general and not towards you.
I don't know your games to be able to call you names. I've never chewed my fingernails throughout the reading of your interviews. And also, I've never bathed in your words while holding a candlestick and shouting "Buddha! Buddha!".
You've never let me down.
Until now.
I've never said a thing about "easy". I've never said you are a moron. I've never said "anybody could to that shitty game".
I know that is hard to make a shitty game. I also know that you have to go out 200% to make a good game. The only thing that is easy is to make a god-damn-awful game and then brag about it.
That's what my rant was about. And anyway, my point of reference is David Perry, not you or Mr. Jaffe (to which I say "hello, thanks for the entertainment I got out of playing GOW").
Anyway, I'll wave hello at E3 and we'll see from there what happens.
Good luck to you, your team and Too Human.
PhatSaqs said:
No idea why he got banned, but since when did he own anyone?
To me, the definition of someone who is up themselves, is someone who criticises people expressing their opinions on a message board.
Yes, a lot of the shit on here is nonsense, and magnified x100 because 'ooh, devs are here'. But people are only incited to post because they have a strong opinion. It'd be a damn sight more boring if all the posts were 'hey, thats ok isn't it?' 'yeah, not bad'
I dunno, the stuff I've read about how Too Human plays and controls makes it sound really accessible, hopefully it'll also allow it to maintain enough complexity to keep things interesting too.
Also good job Denis, yeah you do spit a lot of hyperbole from time to time, but some of that does come with the territory. The game looks amazing from what we've seen so far, now show us more!
playable demo on marketplace around E3 pleeeeeeease, make it happen
Mr. Pointy
Member
I have a love/hate relationship with the 3 games most mentioned in this thread (GoW, ED and MGS:TTS of course). I had immense fun with all of them, yet was simultaneously disappointed with many aspects of them.
I really do hope Too Human turns out to be an excellent game that can defy its disturbingly Death By Degrees-like controls and God Of War 2 is a marked improvement over its far-too-short and one-dimensional predecessor. Although chances are, I'll find something to bitch about.
Anyway, I vote we start complaining about Pikmin.
I really do hope Too Human turns out to be an excellent game that can defy its disturbingly Death By Degrees-like controls and God Of War 2 is a marked improvement over its far-too-short and one-dimensional predecessor. Although chances are, I'll find something to bitch about.
Anyway, I vote we start complaining about Pikmin.
Kobold said:But assuming any of that is automatically how it should be and therefore is the standard, is irresponsible. If I am a sincere person, and I have a passion for the game I am developing and a vision, suddenly I am wrong to tell people about that?
It doesn't work that way. Hype is created in your mind, it doesn't come out of a developers mouth. In fact, again the hypocrasy comes around the corner. How come some games are hyped and some aren't? It's because of the perception of the people, not of the utterances of the developer who just wants to share his vision and passion.
We make it something it's not. We make it the second coming, while a developer just let's you know what he's all about while making this game. You perceive and process this into some weird expectation.
Also, maybe, if developers just 'did what they had to do' the best games never would have gotten made? Maybe those superior games had features that were put in accidentually, as well as some bugs or flaws are put in acidentually. It's just a twisted way of looking at things that is not really fair.
I put Marathon etc. as examples or a series of games that were maybe ( I wouldnt know either, just a possible example that sprung to mind) average in a lot of peoples eyes, ending in a high quality product that got a lot of recognition.
But yea, obviously people should make up their own mind, but at least keep it civil as a sign of their intelligence and respect for what they might not know.
I guess there are degrees to this as there are to everything else. When I speak of "hyping developers" I'm looking at (as I said above) David Perry.
Indeed, you are correct for the most part on the hype building matter. But in the same time you have to admit that there is "developer built" hype and "word of mouth" hype.
On one side you have David Perry (and the ones like him) and on the other you have something like a MGS or Shadow of the Collosus, where the hype is built upon the fact that the damn game is just good.
I've never seen Mr. Ueda coming and talking about Shakespearian approach or whatever (i'll be guilty of the same sin as Mr. Dyack above - don't have the EGM issue, so I just take what it's been said here at face value
) or throwing big words around. Also, when I say "do what you have to do" I don't mean just do the bare minimum to get the wage and usher the game throughout the doors when it was supposed to do that or stick to a formula or whatever.
Anyway, enough ranting, one's gotta do his job or else I'll be at the mercy of the people that think I've spitted them in the face
I wonder what had happened to the project which Mr. Dyack announced at an event in autumn 2003, which should've been shown a year later. I'd also would like to know, whether there are any contracts between Nintendo and SK (does Nintendo own parts of your company?). Well, I won' get an answer.
In my opinion we should stop the discussion about Mr Dyack's weight. What does it interest us? He isn't a model...
In my opinion we should stop the discussion about Mr Dyack's weight. What does it interest us? He isn't a model...
Frank said:
Hello there, you bad person you.
My name is Cristian Soare and I'm a little humble servant of the corporate machine.
I'm a game designer for Gameloft (POPWW, King Kong and now MI3 are my own spurtings in the game world). Indeed, my own dwealings on creating games could be seen as trivial, considering that mobile games are considered "a kid's endevour" even by the ones that are considered to be making "a kid's endeavour" by the mass-media. Well, I could go a bit into that direction and clarify a few things about making games for mobiles but I guess now it's not the time nor the place, although I'll be happy to try to shatter any poor impression you might have about it. Also, I'm only a mere 3 years into the industry.
Now, coming back to the bad person thing I just said.
If you go back a few posts (I think it's on page 9) you will see that my little rant was general and not towards you.
I don't know your games to be able to call you names. I've never chewed my fingernails throughout the reading of your interviews. And also, I've never bathed in your words while holding a candlestick and shouting "Buddha! Buddha!".
You've never let me down.
Until now.
I've never said a thing about "easy". I've never said you are a moron. I've never said "anybody could to that shitty game".
I know that is hard to make a shitty game. I also know that you have to go out 200% to make a good game. The only thing that is easy is to make a god-damn-awful game and then brag about it.
That's what my rant was about. And anyway, my point of reference is David Perry, not you or Mr. Jaffe (to which I say "hello, thanks for the entertainment I got out of playing GOW").
Anyway, I'll wave hello at E3 and we'll see from there what happens.
Good luck to you, your team and Too Human.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147878.html
Gameloft making Paris Hilton mobile game
I see.
MrSardonic
The nerdiest nerd of all the nerds in nerdland
Kobold said:
wow thanks, master, it's good to have your blessing.
HalfwayOrb said:
fixed
Kobold said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol If this was a philosophy lesson, it just might change the world.
Denis Dyack said:
I don't think the negative ramifications are due to the honesty of the approach (I think it's great that developers post here, and join in the fun), or even necessarily the quality of the games you make, but the excessive hyperbole of your comments over the last few years that often lead to disappointment.
Denis Dyack said:
what's wrong with how you look?
probably more handsome than the ogres here. But how about an apology for misquoting me and misrepresenting my comments?
MightyHedgehog
Member
Shiggy said:
And neither is Itagaki...yet people throw out the hate with pockmark jokes and that kind of shit. Totally classy, yeah... When people start attacking the person on that level, it's time to just admit that they have issues that need to be addressed, IMO.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
This thread has reached a new level and it is not a good one. The developers who bother to read our criticisms or comments should be commended for at least taking an interest in what the gamers who post on this board are feeling. However, the personal insults lobbed in both directions are inappropriate and bring the quality of the discussion to a Jerry Springer level. As far as Mr. Jaffe's comments, references to one's mother and her "twat" and other vile comments are surprising and unwise coming from someone who was so prominently featured at GDC by the industry's current market leader. I personally am looking forward to to Too Human.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
Time for a new title change - "Too Human cover story in EGM - "The internet is serious business" says Dyack.
Dude, love your work, but a little advice. Don't take this place seriously at all. You are getting all worked up and defensive over nothing.
Dude, love your work, but a little advice. Don't take this place seriously at all. You are getting all worked up and defensive over nothing.
Well, I liked Eternal Darkness and God of War. So Jaffe and Dyack are okay by me.
The only thing I don't like about SK is that they failed to keep Mei Ling's accent in MGS:TTS. I thought it was hot.
Anyway, Too Human looks awesome. Keep up the good work. I love how everyone immediately defaults to "omg duck fat sux!" And do we really have to attack his perception of Shakespeare? Who gives a shit? Give me a fun game.
P.S. You look like Steve Jobs kinda. Not that it matters.
The only thing I don't like about SK is that they failed to keep Mei Ling's accent in MGS:TTS. I thought it was hot.
Anyway, Too Human looks awesome. Keep up the good work. I love how everyone immediately defaults to "omg duck fat sux!" And do we really have to attack his perception of Shakespeare? Who gives a shit? Give me a fun game.
P.S. You look like Steve Jobs kinda. Not that it matters.
Aryuken said:
Touche.But also, I am not Gameloft and Gameloft is not me. Actually, Gameloft is something close to 2000 people.
Me and my team we're happily (read: we haven't slept like we were supposed to in a long time) wrapping things up on Mi3.
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