Shame. I fucking love System Shock 2. It's probably a top 10 game of all time for me, and totally blows something like Bioshock out of the water. Though I totally understand it's not easy to get into again. Those graphics and combat mechanics are pretty dated.
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Toonami |MayJun17| WE ARE ROBOTS
- Thread starter Seda
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Imperial Bishop
Banned
Not sure how you saw a parallel between romantic ideals and destiny. In Logue Town alone, we have: the lightning saving Luffy, the strong winds, rain wetting the marines' ammunition, Dragon showing up...
Luffy was miraculously lucky to the point where Smoker even comments that it's like divine intervention.
One Piece Manga Spoilers
- We don't know what Joy Boy's connection to the One Piece or Will of D is yet,
so it's very premature to draw conclusions from him. And for all we know, the prophecized person who is supposed to bring Fishman Island to the surface may not even be Luffy.
- The Voice of All Things has aided Luffy at all. He can only hear the voices. He can't communicate with giant creatures like Momonosuke can.
- And as far as we know, having the Will of D is seemingly not related to finding One Piece.
- I don't see how any of this undermines the general themes of One Piece. The freedom that Luffy wants and the destiny that awaits him are not mutually exclusive.
He chose to risk his life to become the Pirate King, he chose not to ask Rayleigh if the One Piece is real or not, he chose to train for two years, etc.
so it's very premature to draw conclusions from him. And for all we know, the prophecized person who is supposed to bring Fishman Island to the surface may not even be Luffy.
- The Voice of All Things has aided Luffy at all. He can only hear the voices. He can't communicate with giant creatures like Momonosuke can.
- And as far as we know, having the Will of D is seemingly not related to finding One Piece.
- I don't see how any of this undermines the general themes of One Piece. The freedom that Luffy wants and the destiny that awaits him are not mutually exclusive.
He chose to risk his life to become the Pirate King, he chose not to ask Rayleigh if the One Piece is real or not, he chose to train for two years, etc.
Luck and destiny are different. Luck is something that just happens and can happen to anyone, from just being in the right place at the right time. It's funny, and luck is something the romantic ideal of pirates have always relied on. Destiny is something you have just by existing. Anybody can be lucky, but only one person can be destined.
It's heavily implied that
Joy Boy, the Will of D, and things like Luffy's ability to Hear the Voice of All things is meant to tie into him finding One Piece. It doesn't work for me because I always thought of Luffy as a lucky pirate, a guy who'll find One Piece and save the world through his determination and luck.
But giving him destiny instead of luck just makes him another special shounen protagonist. Pirates aren't supposed to be special, they're supposed to be lucky. It wasn't his decision, it's just something he has from being born. In retrospect, it probably was what Oda was intending all along, but it wasn't so explicit until recently, so I don't like it. Even in your example, it's pretty easy to infer that Dragon caused the bad weather and saved Luffy, and even if he didn't, it was luck that saved Luffy, not fate.
But giving him destiny instead of luck just makes him another special shounen protagonist. Pirates aren't supposed to be special, they're supposed to be lucky. It wasn't his decision, it's just something he has from being born. In retrospect, it probably was what Oda was intending all along, but it wasn't so explicit until recently, so I don't like it. Even in your example, it's pretty easy to infer that Dragon caused the bad weather and saved Luffy, and even if he didn't, it was luck that saved Luffy, not fate.
Luffy's only BS power is the same cult of personality that most Shonen protagonists have. See Naruto Jesus for the other prime example where people just want to follow him sometimes not even for a particularly good reason.
Only this time there might be a decent in universe explanation for it.
Only this time there might be a decent in universe explanation for it.
Hellwarden
Member
People may disagree with me on this, but I'm totally okay with dumb luck being more of a factor in stories.
One character has that as a power in one of the parts in JoJo
Depends on how bullshit the luck will be, but I agree.
OP Film Gold also had a power around luck.
Luck is great, especially if it's totally silly.
PapaGreg95
Member
I think one of the details about HxH shocking deaths that doesn't mix with me is how death seems to mean so little to the scenes that come straight after. Basically, it's brutal in the fact it's happening, but not brutal in how the characters react.
I could imagine this has something to do with the rating and perceived audience of the show. But one of the joys of a quick kill is that a character was hurt so fast, they still carry through their actions... but the parts that DO notice are busy reacting to the horror. Case in point, something like this:
Rest In Peace Toshikazu Shiozawa, still enjoying his voice in older shows
Well keep in mind the Troupe characters move so fast that by the time the mobsters react to it they're pretty much already dead so there is no point of running away
PapaGreg95
Member
Then again Hercule did won a Martial Arts Tournament with pure skill so by normal human standards he is a good combatant. I wonder how good he would fare against kid goku
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Far enough. I will say that at a certain point, if a character experiences incredible luck way too frequently, then it's spilling over into "blessed by fate" territory.
Unless they already have a superpower that manipulates causality and probability, like the two characters Caliph mentioned.
I'm more so taking about him being credit for Cell and all that.
Goku as a kid was a monster, so I don't think Hercule would do any better. Though it would be funny to see his reactions back then.
I think One Piece is kinda interesting, in that there might be a destiny that's driving the characters... but there's no way the show doesn't go out of it's way to let you know that it's the characters personal determination and never-say-die attitude that's put them into the path of their destiny.
I feel like One Piece sets itself up in a way that makes it feel like there are always multiple candidates to take a destined position. If one character can't make it for some reason, then they've inspired enough people to make someone who'll take on their charge, and live out their life's goals for them.
And with the way there's ALWAYS a choir of impressed underlings to sing a bosses praises, I really feel like the show pushed forth the idea that great people are worthy of (ridiculous levels of) praise, and that things will fall into place based primarily on your ambitions and determination.
Yeah, I get that. That's the root of impressive fighters in battle shonen. Heck, Fist of the North Star is the series that coined "You don't even know, you're ALREADY DEAD!". It's littered with non-fights with a GAWDLIKE lead, the very Savior of the Century's end, who'se got a brother than is an actual anime design parallel to Jesus, and yet it still sold it's cause and effect well. Kenshiro and Co. let people try their best, because they knew crushing them after they exhausted their options, had much more impact than just murdering on sight.
In HxH it's just... bad bits of direction, more than anything. The situations, cast, music, and world exist to tell a more rounded account of events. But much is plainly, 100 percent one sided, and it really feels like the point of anything that's NOT the main cast is simply to make a select few look beyond amazing. Which spits in the face of a world that is so casual about death, that you have a school that trains the best of the best of the best, with only the survivors making it.
We have a 13 villain group, and beyond differences in Nen and silhouettes, they blend into one wad of "overwhelming superiority".
Even minor things like killing stragglers as they manage to escape for mere moments, or having the weakest troupe member incur injuries during this chaos, would have more cause-and-effect to it than what they've presented with these slaughters, or in this show in general.
Therefore it comes off like less of a full story, and more a collection of well animated / drawn / scored shocking moments. What could be excellent, feels middling, IMHO.
Unova was killed by Kurapika, and Gon and Kil escaped Nobunaga. But those things feel so insignificant, compared to the huge wall of perfection via body counts and lack of ANYTHING shaking them. Even their tearful mourning for the death of a friend is answered by little more than "MORE EXCUSES TO KILL!"
It'd have been nice to have seen them be sloppy and emotional due to mourning, but we (so far) didn't even get that. (Is this something that will happen? It'd mellow things out a bit if it does.)
The show / story would be so much better if it just chilled a bit, curbed the HUGE kill counts and beheadings and twisted heads, (even before the increased violence, it was still bad about how it treated death), and let us (and the in-show world) come to natural conclusions about things, instead of pushing the desired answer with absolute, brutal clarity. We're 51 episodes in (!!!), and I'm just... shocked at the fact they haven't gotten more relaxed about this.
I feel like One Piece sets itself up in a way that makes it feel like there are always multiple candidates to take a destined position. If one character can't make it for some reason, then they've inspired enough people to make someone who'll take on their charge, and live out their life's goals for them.
And with the way there's ALWAYS a choir of impressed underlings to sing a bosses praises, I really feel like the show pushed forth the idea that great people are worthy of (ridiculous levels of) praise, and that things will fall into place based primarily on your ambitions and determination.
Yeah, I get that. That's the root of impressive fighters in battle shonen. Heck, Fist of the North Star is the series that coined "You don't even know, you're ALREADY DEAD!". It's littered with non-fights with a GAWDLIKE lead, the very Savior of the Century's end, who'se got a brother than is an actual anime design parallel to Jesus, and yet it still sold it's cause and effect well. Kenshiro and Co. let people try their best, because they knew crushing them after they exhausted their options, had much more impact than just murdering on sight.
In HxH it's just... bad bits of direction, more than anything. The situations, cast, music, and world exist to tell a more rounded account of events. But much is plainly, 100 percent one sided, and it really feels like the point of anything that's NOT the main cast is simply to make a select few look beyond amazing. Which spits in the face of a world that is so casual about death, that you have a school that trains the best of the best of the best, with only the survivors making it.
We have a 13 villain group, and beyond differences in Nen and silhouettes, they blend into one wad of "overwhelming superiority".
Even minor things like killing stragglers as they manage to escape for mere moments, or having the weakest troupe member incur injuries during this chaos, would have more cause-and-effect to it than what they've presented with these slaughters, or in this show in general.
Therefore it comes off like less of a full story, and more a collection of well animated / drawn / scored shocking moments. What could be excellent, feels middling, IMHO.
Unova was killed by Kurapika, and Gon and Kil escaped Nobunaga. But those things feel so insignificant, compared to the huge wall of perfection via body counts and lack of ANYTHING shaking them. Even their tearful mourning for the death of a friend is answered by little more than "MORE EXCUSES TO KILL!"
It'd have been nice to have seen them be sloppy and emotional due to mourning, but we (so far) didn't even get that. (Is this something that will happen? It'd mellow things out a bit if it does.)
The show / story would be so much better if it just chilled a bit, curbed the HUGE kill counts and beheadings and twisted heads, (even before the increased violence, it was still bad about how it treated death), and let us (and the in-show world) come to natural conclusions about things, instead of pushing the desired answer with absolute, brutal clarity. We're 51 episodes in (!!!), and I'm just... shocked at the fact they haven't gotten more relaxed about this.
Maybe it's a woman?
JadedWriter
Member
With HxH that's usually a question with no definitive answer.
You mean like Kurapika
(still probably would)
JadedWriter
Member
Don't forget about based waifu Kurama.
Even my ex thought he was a chick.
Need to watch Yuyu hakuso one of these days
Also i keep always having to remind myself
that he is a dude partially because his english va is stuck in my head which is very feminine
Also i keep always having to remind myself
(partially for my boner)
Wait Nana has a manga that is still going on i just started the anime and it's really good
JadedWriter
Member
How have you not watched YYH yet? Prototype Togashi is still better than a lot of current Shonen's.
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
The manga is on permanent hiatus due the mangaka's health issues.
JadedWriter
Member
YYH is about 113 eps, takes a good...20 to get really good. Pretty much when a muscle man wearing shades shows up get hyped.
JadedWriter
Member
I have never seen Nana so I'd just instinctively prioritize YYH, but that's just me.
YoodiHoshi
Member
I don't remember this episode Kappa
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Hit dem showers, Gon.
JadedWriter
Member
Gon's hair is also shorter. I think anything not Madhouse in the 2011 anime Gon pretty much has super saiyan hair.
YoodiHoshi
Member
Before Yorknew, there were some manga panels showing Killua a tad taller than Gon. The 2011 anime just made them equal height from the beginning(?).
Even discounting the hair Killua is several inches taller than Gon. Despite them both being the same age.
For reference Here is a quick side by shot of the two in 2011
and the 90's anime
Manga
JadedWriter
Member
I guess it was less blatant in the 2011 anime then unless Madhouse was just better at scale.
and his Jojo body
Hellwarden
Member
PapaGreg95
Member
Yeah, I get that. That's the root of impressive fighters in battle shonen. Heck, Fist of the North Star is the series that coined "You don't even know, you're ALREADY DEAD!". It's littered with non-fights with a GAWDLIKE lead, the very Savior of the Century's end, who'se got a brother than is an actual anime design parallel to Jesus, and yet it still sold it's cause and effect well. Kenshiro and Co. let people try their best, because they knew crushing them after they exhausted their options, had much more impact than just murdering on sight.
In HxH it's just... bad bits of direction, more than anything. The situations, cast, music, and world exist to tell a more rounded account of events. But much is plainly, 100 percent one sided, and it really feels like the point of anything that's NOT the main cast is simply to make a select few look beyond amazing. Which spits in the face of a world that is so casual about death, that you have a school that trains the best of the best of the best, with only the survivors making it.
We have a 13 villain group, and beyond differences in Nen and silhouettes, they blend into one wad of "overwhelming superiority".
Even minor things like killing stragglers as they manage to escape for mere moments, or having the weakest troupe member incur injuries during this chaos, would have more cause-and-effect to it than what they've presented with these slaughters, or in this show in general.
Therefore it comes off like less of a full story, and more a collection of well animated / drawn / scored shocking moments. What could be excellent, feels middling, IMHO.
Unova was killed by Kurapika, and Gon and Kil escaped Nobunaga. But those things feel so insignificant, compared to the huge wall of perfection via body counts and lack of ANYTHING shaking them. Even their tearful mourning for the death of a friend is answered by little more than "MORE EXCUSES TO KILL!"
It'd have been nice to have seen them be sloppy and emotional due to mourning, but we (so far) didn't even get that. (Is this something that will happen? It'd mellow things out a bit if it does.)
The show / story would be so much better if it just chilled a bit, curbed the HUGE kill counts and beheadings and twisted heads, (even before the increased violence, it was still bad about how it treated death), and let us (and the in-show world) come to natural conclusions about things, instead of pushing the desired answer with absolute, brutal clarity. We're 51 episodes in (!!!), and I'm just... shocked at the fact they haven't gotten more relaxed about this.
I don't see why it spits in the face to a world that is casual about death and keep in mind our main characters aren't a bunch of nobodies, Killua comes from a family of assassins ,Gon is a world class hunter and Kurapika comes from a clan that gave the Phantom Troupe a good workout, as for the Phantom Troupe's reaction to Uvogin's death keep in mind we did see them get emotional with scenes of Shalnark and Nobunaga. Also it doesn't really make sense for them to be sloppy since while the death of their partner is tragic(to them) most of them come from horrible backgrounds so they are pretty much used to it.
PapaGreg95
Member
Also for my YYH fans out there who is better girl, Koto or Juri
JadedWriter
Member
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