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[InfiniteCombo]

So yeah, it deserves better. And Chrono Trigger and DKC2 do indeed to SNES Mini what Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane do to Sgt.Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.

This might just be the best analogy I've read in a long, long time. Well done.

 

[Triteon]

Chrono Trigger, Top Gear, and a 2P beat 'em up (Super Double Dragon? Final Fight 2 or 3?) are sorely lacking.

Top Gear is one of the most underrated games on the system.

I totally agree that it needs a two player beat em up. Especially with the machine coming with two controllers.

 

[LewieP]

I only think the Donkey Kong Country games are OK, but the second is clearly the best of the trilogy.

 

[b3b0p]

Good list, here is how I would change it.

I can agree that list is close, but I can't agree with TMNT IV or Mortal Kombat.

TMNT IV is straight up boring button masher. It gets repetitive and boring and too easy. The desire to replay like many other games on the SNES isn't there. I honestly replay most of these games a number of times almost every year. TMNT IV I recently tried and it doesn't do it for me. So, I have to pull it. I am a huge TMNT fan. I had all the action figures, I have expensive fancy posters, belts, t-shirts, expensive fancy Mondo Tees action figures, but this game (along with the Arcade version) feel extremely primitive. I actually prefer the NES TMNT ¯\_(&#12484_/¯ I enjoy the difficulty, platforming, and variety it provides.

Mortal Kombat is Multiplatform and there is nothing unique to the SNES version as far as I know that makes it wonderful. Mortal Kombat back in the day was always fun and a huge quarter crusher that could draw crowds in the arcades where I grew up, but the SNES or even the Genesis versions were snoozefests compared to it.

This list definitely needs Pilotwings. The difficulty, uniqueness, the variety. It was completely new game. (The N64 version was a huge and wonderful update!) What can I say I love <3 Pilotwings <3 <3 <3 XOXOXO

If you put on Donkey Kong Country you have to put them all on. Regardless, complete the collection. Put Donkey Kong Country 3 on here. Sheesh.

Chrono Trigger is already on nearly every platform available. Why again? Sure, great game, but do we need it on yet another platform? If you played it on every platform so far, how many times have you played it in total?

Mario All-Stars is arguable since it's mostly a compilation and Mario, Mario 2, and Mario 3 again? Really!? Don't we already complain enough about re-buying it every year?

Illusion of Gaia, Secret of Evermore, Harvest Moon, and as bad as they were Play Action Football, Stanley Cup Hockey would be nice nostalgic surprises.

Licensed games that would be cool are any Disney games back then Aladdin, Lion King, etc. Buster Busts Loose, the Looney Tunes, Bugs Bunny, and even Jetson's / Flintstone / Hanna Barbara games. Again, despite how bad. They give a taste and sense of the landscape and a trip down nostalgia and memory lane.

I want Super Ghouls n' Ghosts on this list, I really love that game. Not sure where though. Super R-Type and Gradius I would like to add, but not sure where.

Forget this, SNES is a beast. It has a superb library. One could live with the SNES through retirement playing the definitive games and seeking out the hidden games in the rough.

 

[MercuryLS3]

What's better, NBA Jam or TE? What's different between the two?

 

[excaliburps]

NBA Jam and Chrono Trigger were probably the only ones I felt were left off. NBA Jam is understandable, but Chrono Trigger? Maybe Nintendo thought they had too many JRPGs in it?

Can't wait for the N64 one! Mario Party, Smash Bros. etc.

 

[MercuryLS3]

NBA Jam and Chrono Trigger were probably the only ones I felt were left off. NBA Jam is understandable, but Chrono Trigger? Maybe Nintendo thought they had too many JRPGs in it?

Can't wait for the N64 one! Mario Party, Smash Bros. etc.

And Turtles in Time.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Who owns the rights to the Quintet games these days? As far as I know, none of them have been rereleased digitally (Actraiser 1 & 2, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma, and a few others).

Oh and Chrono Trigger was almost certainly left off because Square-Enix wanted too much money for it.

 

[guyssorry]

How the fuck is DKC1 over DKC2? DKC 1 is so mediocre, whereas 2 is a masterpiece. At least the rest of the list is decent.

 

[Mohasus]

It needs Rockn Roll Racing and Biker Mice From Mars.

^

And Top Gear.

 

[sgjackson]

How the fuck is DKC1 over DKC2? DKC 1 is so mediocre, whereas 2 is a masterpiece. At least the rest of the list is decent.

This confused me too. I think a bunch of people picked the first one for historical importance, you can check the spreadsheet and go read the lists if you want context.

 

[Megatron]

Who owns the rights to the Quintet games these days? As far as I know, none of them have been rereleased digitally (Actraiser 1 & 2, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, Terranigma, and a few others).

Oh and Chrono Trigger was almost certainly left off because Square-Enix wanted too much money for it.

Actraiser was released on Wii Vc.

I don't know about your theory. You really think they wanted more for it than final fantasy 6? That doesn't sound right. But they probably had to pay more for it than earthbound and Mario rpg which they own. And let's face it, if one of those was left off for a Chronotrigger everyone would bitch about that.

 

[TheOMan]

Secret of Mana probably got the nod because SoM is one of the system's defining darlings in the EU market. Chrono Trigger doesn't tug the same heartstrings; It was never released there on SNES.

I don't really think there's many that stand among the system's top 20 or anything, but from a genre variety standpoint and as a 'snapshot of the era', it definitely feels like a huge oversight not to have them represented. Shmups and beat 'em ups were ubiquitous at the time.

What were some good shmups and beat em ups at that time?

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I don't know about your theory. You really think they wanted more for it than final fantasy 6? That doesn't sound right. But they probably had to pay more for it than earthbound and Mario rpg which they own. And let's face it, if one of those was left off for a Chronotrigger everyone would bitch about that.

Putting Secret of Mana & FF6 on the SNES Classic can be viewed as marketing for those franchises (and Square-Enix has been hitting Seiken Densetsu nostalgia hard lately with the collection & the upcoming Secret of Mana remake) so Square-Enix may have agreed to a lower royalty payment for those. In contrast, Chrono isn't an active franchise at Square-Enix so the only benefit to sticking it on the SNES Classic would be whatever payment Nintendo offers.

What were some good shmups

Would have loved to see U.N. Squadron on the SNES Classic. Lots of fun, not crazy difficult, and fantastic soundtrack.

 

[SpiceRacz]

This list is fine,but Castlevania IV is better than Mega Man X.

 

[Forward]

At least 20 of the games listed are better than ActRaiser.

I am one of literally less than a dozen players who thinks Actraiser 2 is better than Actraiser 1.

Yes, I beat Actraiser. And Magic Sword-Rygar Raiser >>>>> Action-Sim Raiser.

I'd put Chrono Trigger on the list before either of them, and I am... the voice of reason/devil's advocate incarnate against CT being ranked anywhere near GOAT status.

SNES Turtles in Time is still the best Beat 'em Up of all time. Yes, better than SoR2.

 

[danm999]

How the fuck is DKC1 over DKC2? DKC 1 is so mediocre, whereas 2 is a masterpiece. At least the rest of the list is decent.

I just have to assume more people played DKC1.

 

[Various Artists]

That is a pretty solid list. You got my holy trinity of CT, FF6 and LTTP. I'd rearrange it a bit personally but I respect your choices. I remember renting LTTP from blockbuster and seeing an end game save to see all the cool stuff and then deleting all the saves but mine. I rerented it a month or so later and my save was still there. My name instead of Link and saved in the 3rd slot so I would know. Everyone just choice the first save slot, mine was safe in the third one.

 

[Various Artists]

I just have to assume more people played DKC1.

Probably. I feel DKC1 gets really difficult once you start the platforming levels with the fire barrels. I don't remember having as much trouble in DKC2 but that has to be over 20 years now I think.

 

[Aters]

Oh and Chrono Trigger was almost certainly left off because Square-Enix wanted too much money for it.

I'd rather think it's Nintendo not wanting too many JRPGs. FFVI and Secret of Mana are there after all. Also, Dragon Quest is not on the list, even though the franchise is certainly not dead yet.

 

[Various Artists]

'd rather think it's Nintendo not wanting too many JRPGs. FFVI and Secret of Mana are there after all.

My guess was that they chose SoM over CT because it has an active battle system and to hopefully build some interest in the remake coming up. Otherwise it was a gross miscalculation. There is plenty of space there. would it really matter to have 22+1 instead of the current line up? Nintendo did wrong by not including what is wildly regarded as one of the best game of all time, and by most accounts still holds up still holds up to this day.

 

[nabe_shogun]

The lack of a single beat em up or shmup is a bigger oversight. There were so many great ones on the SNES.

This. While I don't care much for beat em ups, I do wish it had like an R-Type game on there or some other shmup.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Also, Dragon Quest is not on the list, even though the franchise is certainly not dead yet.

Dragon Quest 5 & 6 were never released on the SNES in English so to put them on the SNES Classic would require either a brand new localization (not going to happen) or for Square-Enix to license an existing fan-hack translation (very unlikely).

And actually, it's more likely that what happened is that Nintendo tried to get FF6 & CT, Square-Enix counter-offered FF6 & Mana (because they wanted to boost the collection & remake), and Nintendo said "Good enough" and dropped the matter.

 

[Aters]

My guess was that they chose SoM over CT because it has an active battle system and to hopefully build some interest in the remake coming up. Otherwise it was a gross miscalculation. There is plenty of space there. would it really matter to have 22+1 instead of the current line up? Nintendo did wrong by not including what is wildly regarded as one of the best game of all time, and by most accounts still holds up still holds up to this day.

Maybe whoever made the list just found other games more compelling. CT didn't sell all that well, not just in the west, but also in Japan. I think it had price drop very quickly because retailers couldn't move more copies after first week. I doubt Nintendo would look at Metacritic or NeoGAF when making their decisions. They have sells data.

Dragon Quest 5 & 6 were never released on the SNES in English so to put them on the SNES Classic would require either a brand new localization (not going to happen) or for Square-Enix to license an existing fan-hack translation (very unlikely).

Japan has different lineup (including games that are never localized) yet DQ is still missing. And DQ is bigger than at least 90% of the games in the lineup in Japan.

 

[KidB]

What is DKC1 doing above DKC2?

 

[dr_mario]

Also apparently everyone wants a game called Terranigma I had never heard of.

You're trolling, right? You must be trolling. Terranigma is one of the best games of all times. It has a great story and, much more important, one of the best gaming soundtracks. What is sometimes named "Sad Theme" is among the top 3 of my all time favorites. Dammit. You troll, don't you?

 

[Socreges]

Dragon Quest 5 & 6 were never released on the SNES in English so to put them on the SNES Classic would require either a brand new localization (not going to happen) or for Square-Enix to license an existing fan-hack translation (very unlikely).

And actually, it's more likely that what happened is that Nintendo tried to get FF6 & CT, Square-Enix counter-offered FF6 & Mana (because they wanted to boost the collection & remake), and Nintendo said "Good enough" and dropped the matter.

This is my theory

 

[redcrayon]

I really do wonder why Chrono Trigger is not included since a few other Square games are.

I think you kind of answer your own question there- there's already multiple lengthy Square JRPGs on there and they wanted variety. Secret of Mana was a shoe-in because it actually released in Europe unlike the others and so people remember playing it here. An action rpg was always going to be a better choice for global release than Chrono Trigger (which is perhaps why it released in the EU and FFVI/CT didn't in the first place) and so they had to make a hard choice for the remaining spots.

Gaf likes JRPGs and the classics score highly, but if you want to attract a broad customer base with nostalgia appeal then focusing on the immediacy of the arcadey action games to appeal to lapsed gamers rather than tying up a third of the list with lengthy RPGs seems like a reasonable idea.

 

[Celine]

The absence of Terranigma is disgusting.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

CT didn't sell all that well, not just in the west, but also in Japan.

SNES version sold over 2 million copies in Japan which puts it in the same ballpark as FF4 & FF5. Admittedly, it sold less overseas, but A) it wasn't released in Europe & B) it came out in the US at the end of the SNES's life when people were starting to move to PS1. For a game of that era that wasn't part of an existing series, over 2 million sales is rather impressive.

 

[farmerboy]

Only thing that urks me is a lack of schmups.

Where's a Gradius, R Type, Darius or UN Squadron?

 

[Celine]

And actually, it's more likely that what happened is that Nintendo tried to get FF6 & CT, Square-Enix counter-offered FF6 & Mana (because they wanted to boost the collection & remake), and Nintendo said "Good enough" and dropped the matter.

It's more likely that there were a fixed number of slots available for Square published RPGs and Nintendo chose Final Fantasy VI since the series it's still popular everywhere (same reason why they included Final Fantasy in the NES Classic while Dragon Quest III/IV are much superior RPGs although SE proved many times it doesn't want to release DQ on VC) and SoM cause it looks like an action RPG (in contrast with the turn based look of Earthbound, Super Mario RPG and Final Fantasy VI) and is one of the rare example of the era of a coop RPG (ideal for the inclusion of the second controller in the package).

CT didn't sell all that well, not just in the west, but also in Japan. I think it had price drop very quickly because retailers couldn't move more copies after first week. I doubt Nintendo would look at Metacritic or NeoGAF when making their decisions. They have sells data.

Not true.
During the SNES era Square began a period in which it was on fire (which lasted until PS1 more or less).
Final Fantasy series doubled its sales in Japan with FFV and FFVI compared to FFIII (first FF to sell more than 1M in Japan) and Square introduced multiple new IPs that became million sellers (Romancing SaGa, Mana, Chrono and Super Mario RPG although the latter was published by Nintendo).
Other new IPs performed very strongly too (Front Mission, Bahamut Lagoon).
During the PS1 era Square would maintain its popularity in Japan (with Final Fantasy becoming as popular as Dragon Quest for a brief period) and achieve great popularity (unheard of before for jRPGs) in America and Europe.

Also indeed Nintendo know exactly how much every SNES games shipped because they manufactured the cartridges for third-party games.
Anyway this is SNES million-sellers (worldwide) from Nintendo, Capcom, Square and Enix which are the four publishers who shared in the past their sell-in data for the console:

Note: As you can guess the majority of titles included in the SNES Classic Mini are million-sellers and very popular at the time.

 

[dr_mario]

The absence of Terranigma is disgusting.

Thanks.

 

[Aters]

I think you kind of answer your own question there- there's already multiple lengthy Square JRPGs on there and they wanted variety. Secret of Mana was a shoe-in because it actually released in Europe unlike the others and so people remember playing it here. An action rpg was always going to be a better choice for global release than Chrono Trigger (which is perhaps why it released in the EU and FFVI/CT didn't in the first place) and so they had to make a hard choice for the remaining spots.

Gaf likes JRPGs and the classics score highly, but if you want to attract a broad customer base with nostalgia appeal then focusing on the immediacy of the arcadey action games to appeal to lapsed gamers rather than tying up a third of the list with lengthy RPGs seems like a reasonable idea.

Yeah I think this is most likely the case. If I get to decide the lineup at least two thirds of them will be RPGs, but it won't sell.

 

[Aters]

Not true.
During the SNES era Square began a period in which it was on fire (which lasted until PS1 more or less).
Final Fantasy series doubled its sales in Japan with FFV and FFVI compared FFIII (first FF to sell more than 1M in Japan) and Square introduced multiple new IPs that became million sellers (Romancing SaGa, Mana, Chrono and Super Mario RPG too although it was published by Nintendo).
Other new IPs performed very strongly too (Front Mission, Bahamut Lagoon).

Weird, I always had the impression that CT had price drop pretty quickly. I also remember Nintendo pushed too many copies of Bahamut Lagoon at day one out of spite so that retailers had to drastically cut the price of that game. I thought they did it to warn Square not to get too close to Sony.

 

[poodaddy]

It's odd to me that the only beat em up on that list is Turtles in Time, which is definitely a great game mind you, but there are so many great beat em ups on the Snes. I need to remember that most people don't like beat em ups as much as I do.....

 

[inner-G]

It's odd to me that the only beat em up on that list is Turtles in Time, which is definitely a great game mind you, but there are so many great beat em ups on the Snes. I need to remember that most people don't like beat em ups as much as I do.....

Final Fight series
Pirates of Dark Water
Knights of the Round

There were a lot of good ones, just not many that were Top 25 material maybe.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Yeah, Chrono Trigger was the best-selling original SNES RPG (not connected to an existing series or IP). Secret of Mana sold about half a million less, but it does make sense to include as a popular multiplayer co-op game on the system. Of course, it would make even more sense to put both of them up.

 

[oni-link]

CT and FFIV hit the chopping block (omissions reasonable since there are already three big menu-driven JRPGs with FFVI, SMRPG, and EarthBound--and Secret of Mana even though it's a little more action).

Are they really that reasonable if there were no licencing issues?

These files are tiny, they could have put 100 games on the SNES classic, or at least matched the 30 from the NES classic

I'm pretty sure FFV didn't come out in the EU, so they could have included games like that

If Starfox 2 gets included then I don't see why they couldn't have given a few other obscure classics a second chance

 

[marc^o^]

I assume the absence of Tetris Battle Gaiden in this list, is because nobody played it? It's my favorite Tetris game of all time, with incredible music, and definitely deserves a place in anyone's library.

 

[D.Lo]

Yeah, Chrono Trigger was the best-selling original SNES RPG (not connected to an existing series or IP). Secret of Mana sold about half a million less, but it does make sense to include as a popular multiplayer co-op game on the system. Of course, it would make even more sense to put both of them up.

You got sources for that? Mana was released in PAL too and seems relatively common on ebay. Chrono was only the US+Japan and was also quite late.

Technically mana was not a new IP either but anyway.

EDIT: Ah I see above now. But what are the sources for that? The mana figures I have seen are JP+USA only.

 

[poodaddy]

Pirates of Dark Water


There were a lot of good ones, just not many that were Top 25 material maybe.

I talk about this game all the time! I've told my wife about it so many times that it must be getting old lol. Man that game just kicked so much ass dude, and here I was thinking I was the only one that played it. I agree that they probably weren't top 25 material for most folks, but man I've always just adored beat em ups for the accessible satisfaction of it all. Ya get in, slap dudes around, and get out without wasting a lot of your day. It's kind of like a fighting game in that you don't have to devote a lot of time to it if you're just looking to blow through a quick half hour of gaming. Maximum Carnage was also great, and Separation Anxiety was decent for co-op. Although it's a little different, X Men Mutant Apocalypse is probably actually my favorite beat em up on the entire platform. It's got the epitome of 90's Capcom soundtracks, beautiful pixel art, satisfying combat, responsive controls, great level design, (yeah seriously, real level design in a beat em up), and it respects your time as the whole thing can be wrapped up in about an hour or so. It's just good.

Sorry I got off on a tangent there.....I really wanna play Mutant Apocalypse again

 

[jabuseika]

ActRaiser should be way higher.

 

[TatteredHat]

Terranigma was never released in the US so I'm not surprised that a lot of people have never even heard of it, but it's honestly one of the best games on the SNES platform and I would urge everyone to give it a go.

You can even convert the PAL rom to NTSC so it plays on the SNES classic.

 

[Stumpokapow]

And actually, it's more likely that what happened is that Nintendo tried to get FF6 & CT, Square-Enix counter-offered FF6 & Mana (because they wanted to boost the collection & remake), and Nintendo said "Good enough" and dropped the matter.

Alternatively:

Nintendo wanted some two player games and some RPGs and Mana helps meet both goals

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

EDIT: Ah I see above now. But what are the sources for that? The mana figures I have seen are JP+USA only.

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/ir/e/explanatory/download/0404-200402090000-01 (Page 27)
1.83 million sales for Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2) on SNES worldwide.

 

[D.Lo]

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/ir/e/explanatory/download/0404-200402090000-01 (Page 27)
1.83 million sales for Secret of Mana (Seiken Densetsu 2) on SNES worldwide.

Thanks.

Well it pretty much answered the question in reverse then - Secret of Mana outsold Chrono Trigger in the west. Chrono Trigger's Japanese sales are what put it over the top. The argument for CT based on popularity could only apply to the Super Fami Mini.

 

[Celine]

Well it pretty much answered the question in reverse then - Secret of Mana outsold Chrono Trigger in the west. Chrono Trigger's Japanese sales are what put it over the top. The argument for CT based on popularity could only apply to the Super Fami Mini.

Illusion of Gaia outshipped both Secret of Mana and Chrono Trigger outside Japan (450K), of course the selection for the SNES Classic is not just a matter of what a game sold in the west at the time.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

You're trolling, right? You must be trolling. Terranigma is one of the best games of all times. It has a great story and, much more important, one of the best gaming soundtracks. What is sometimes named "Sad Theme" is among the top 3 of my all time favorites. Dammit. You troll, don't you?

Nope had never even heard of it until the mini released. I certainly want it now though. It looks great.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Thanks.

Well it pretty much answered the question in reverse then - Secret of Mana outsold Chrono Trigger in the west. Chrono Trigger's Japanese sales are what put it over the top. The argument for CT based on popularity could only apply to the Super Fami Mini.

Actually CT probably outsold Secret of Mana in the US as well since there isn't a huge gap between the two and Secret of Mana's overseas sales also include EU. Anyway, Secret of Mana makes a lot of sense to have on the SNES Classic - it sold a lot, it's multiplayer, and the publisher has a remake & a collection they want to promote. But it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to not include Chrono Trigger - it's one of the top 20 best-selling SNES games & it's widely considered one of the best games of all-time.

EDIT: Illusion of Gaia is another weird omission - it was published by Nintendo in the US with a big marketing campaign & sold extremely well.