Top Gear UK show caught by Nissan rigging electric cars trial

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shuri

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug/05/top-gear-bbc

Last Sunday, an episode of Top Gear showed Jeremy Clarkson and James May setting off for Cleethorpes in Lincolnshire, 60 miles away. The car unexpectedly ran out of charge when they got to Lincoln, and had to be pushed. They concluded that "electric cars are not the future".

[...]

But it wasn't unexpected: Nissan has a monitoring device in the car which transmits information on the state of the battery. This shows that, while the company delivered the car to Top Gear fully charged, the programme-makers ran the battery down before Clarkson and May set off, until only 40% of the charge was left.

[...|

In this case it told them – before they set out on their 60-mile journey – that they had 30 miles' worth of electricity. But, as Ben Webster of the Times reported earlier this week, "at no point were viewers told that the battery had been more than half empty at the start of the trip."

[...|

It gets worse. As Webster points out, in order to stage a breakdown in Lincoln, "it appeared that the Leaf was driven in loops for more than 10 miles in Lincoln until the battery was flat."
I've only randomly watched a couple of episodes of this show, I can't say I'm a huge fan, but I always considered them to be interesting and entertaining, but WOW at this revelation. I honestly can't take the show seriously after this.

Theres tons more info at the link, its an interesting article!

edit: aww crap it was posted in the official top gear thread it seems! But still interesting piece of info for people who dont visit official threads
 
shuri said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/aug/05/top-gear-bbc


I've only randomly watched a couple of episodes of this show, I can't say I'm a huge fan, but I always considered them to be interesting and entertaining, but WOW at this revelation. I honestly can't take the show seriously after this.

Theres tons more info at the link, its an interesting article!
...You took them seriously before this? It's a parody show. Clarkson is a prick, always will be.
 
Everything they do on Top Gear is fake, rigged, staged and purely done to show points and to be entertaining. Expecting them to do anything factual these days is so naive. All they are getting from this is attention and they love it.

They love getting people's panties in a knot and that is what's happening here.
 
Completely ignore the point of the feature though, it was to highlight the pitfalls of electric, and at no point was a start point or distance mentioned so they are irrelevant to the feature.

to quote myself from the top gear thread regarding top gears defence-

'He is right though, at no point did they mention the start point of the trip or the mileage to be covered, if he said 'we will cover 110 miles' and then didn't mention that the batteries were only half full then Nissan would have a point, by not stating the start point then that is removed from the test, after all you don't start every car trip with a full tank of fuel and you cant presume you will start every trip with a full battery.

If the point was to highlight the potential shortfalls of the battery packs then it was successful.'


If you are low on fuel then it takes minutes to get to a petrol station and be on your way again, if you are low on battery power it will take hours to resume your journey, that was the point of the feature.
 
They have a huge anti-electric agenda on that show, one that probably breaks the BBC's anti-bias rules...but they're a huge earner worldwide for the BBC in terms of royalties/DVDs etc so I don't mind too much.
 
Wasn't there some controversy between this show and the Volt a while back as well?
 
Top Gear is the most entertaining show in the world IMO. And although this is really stupid, it doesn't change that. I just hope they don't continue down that path.
 
Yeah there is nothing on Top Gear that isn't blatantly overscripted. Everything is staged. That should have been obvious to you seasons ago.
 
RAAAAAGE!! Take to the stree...oh wait. Nevermind. Carry on.
 
DarthWoo said:
Wasn't there some controversy between this show and the Volt a while back as well?

They messed with the Tesla Roadster I beleive.

And they had used Fauxrarri's and piped in exhaust noises over the speaker systems at their live shows.
 
DarthWoo said:
Wasn't there some controversy between this show and the Volt a while back as well?
You're probably thinking of the Tesla Roadster. I've never seen them mention the Volt on the show.
 
Electric cars: charges answered

I’d like to put a few facts straight regarding a story in today’s Times about our recent road test of two electric cars, the Nissan Leaf and the Peugeot Ion, which was shown on Sunday’s programme. The Times’ headline reads: ‘Clarkson didn’t give our electric cars a sporting chance, says Nissan.’

Further into the story it says that the film was embarrassing for Nissan, because it shows that electric cars cannot be trusted to get you to your destination. The writer, Ben Webster, the media editor, then goes on to suggest that actually ‘it is Top Gear, not the car, that cannot be trusted.’ Mr Webster’s logic for this centres on the fact that when the film started the cars were not fully charged, and were therefore destined to run out at some point along the way, thus giving a false impression of the ability of the vehicles.

In response, I’d like to say:

1) We never, at any point in the film, said that we were testing the range claims of the vehicles, nor did we say that the vehicles wouldn’t achieve their claimed range. We also never said at any time that we were hoping to get to our destination on one charge.

2) We never said what the length of the journey was, where we had started from, nor how long we had been driving at the start of the film. So again, no inference about the range can be gleaned from our film.

3) We were fully aware that Nissan could monitor the state of the battery charge and distance travelled via onboard software. The reporter from The Times seems to suggest this device caught us out, but we knew about it all the time, as Nissan will confirm. We weren’t bothered about it, because we had nothing to hide.

4) The content of our film was driven by the points we were trying to explore. As James stated in the introduction, you can now go to a dealer and buy a ‘proper’ electric car, as in one that claims to be more practical and useful than a tiny, short-range city runabout. That’s what the car company marketing says, and that’s what we focused on in our test: the pros and cons of living with one as an alternative to a petrol car.

So yes, when we set off, we knew we would have to recharge at some point, because that was an experience we wanted to devote part of the film to. Now granted, James and Jeremy’s stopover – which included brass rubbings, adult scrabble and tattoos – was more knockabout than an average motorist would experience, but the consumer points coming out of the film were quite clear:

1) Electric cars are still very expensive.

2) The recharging infrastructure is patchy.

3) The range readout varies enormously, unlike the information given by a petrol gauge.

4) The Leaf is a very good car per se, and there’s nothing wrong with electric motors, but the battery, in our view, remains the Achilles’ heel of the whole package.

In the story in The Times Andy Palmer, Nissan’s Executive Vice President, was quoted as saying that our film was misleading. Well with respect to Mr Palmer, Nissan’s own website for the Leaf devotes a fair amount of space to extolling the virtues of fast charging, but nowhere does it warn potential customers that constant fast charging can severely shorten the life of the battery.

It also says that each Leaf battery should still have 80 percent of its capacity after five years’ use, and that, to a layman, sounds great. But nowhere is it mentioned that quite a few experts in the battery industry believe when a battery is down to 80 percent capacity, it has reached End Of Life (EOL) status. Peugeot, for example, accepts 80 percent capacity as End Of Life.

Now I also know, to be fair to Nissan, that when you go to buy a Leaf they do warn you about the pitfalls of constant fast charging. But the website is the portal to the Leaf world, it’s their electronic shop window. Is it misleading not to have all the facts on display? I’m only asking.

In conclusion, we absolutely refute that we were misleading viewers over the charge/range, and we stand by the consumer points raised in the film.

Andy Wilman

The response from the Top Gear production team.
 
Qwomo said:
Yeah there is nothing on Top Gear that isn't blatantly overscripted. Everything is staged. That should have been obvious to you seasons ago.

I don't know... the "Princess Diana owned one" seemed pretty unscripted :P

But yes, the point of the feature was "if you need to refuel your electric car on a trip, it is a pain because there aren't enough quickcharge stations in the country AND quickcharging fucks with your battery life"

This is no Volt bs like earlier in their careers.
 
Sucks that they bullshitted that part but if the 11 hour charge times are true then they are right to say this ain't the future.
 
Top gear defence force has mobilised.

-

I HATE Top Gear, and this sort if shit is the exact reason. They're proving a point and shitting over a good technology because they're cunts. It goes completely against BBC guidelines. And I don't see how watching a car being rigged to run out of battery is entertaining.
 
Meadows said:
They have a huge anti-electric agenda on that show, one that probably breaks the BBC's anti-bias rules...but they're a huge earner worldwide for the BBC in terms of royalties/DVDs etc so I don't mind too much.

Actually I'm all for getting off 'petrol' however battery powered cars is a fucking joke, something this show did a rough job of showing.

We are use to been able to refill our cars in less than 5 minutes, that's something our whole society is built round.

They made an excellent point at the end of this segment highlighting how hydrogen is the future, not batteries.

Hydrogen cars now have the same if not high range than petrol cars, plus they can be refilled in under 5 minutes like a standard petrol car.

If you don't mind waiting 10-12 hours for your car to recharge, then that's fine. For the majority of car drivers, it's a total deal breaker.
 
From the TG thread:

Foliorum Viridum said:
Very embarrassing. Pretty pointless, too. It was obvious a lot of stuff in that segment was staged, but still. Why say you're going to test the cars and then not do it properly?

That's just what Top Gear is getting like, though. They'd rather fake something for some stupid skit than do a genuine challenge/review and just let the entertainment happen naturally.

That statement on the Top Gear site is pretty laughable. He's making out like they didn't try to deceive the audience, when they blatantly did.

Foliorum Viridum said:
Oh please. It was filmed and edited in such a way that would imply the cars couldn't go as far as they actually can. You can have all of the little loopholes in the world, but that's the simple fact.

By not outlining the details like the start point, how much it was charged etc, it just further proves that the segment was pretty unprofessional.
 
This is top gear, of course it's rigged, just like how every race is rigged so that cars usually win.

That said, I think the point of the show was to explain the difficulty and lack of infrastructure set up with electric cars. They chose a modest sized town where many people would normally stop to fuel up and wanted to point out the fact that with an electric car had you ran out of juice it'd be a completely different experience.

Should nissan be angry? Sure, does it change the fact that the infrastructure to support electric cars is not yet fully developed? not at all.
 
Well Nissan has every right to be pissed off since they managed to make their technology look like shit, regardless of the show's "point" or hidden point.
 
Qwomo said:
Yeah there is nothing on Top Gear that isn't blatantly overscripted. Everything is staged. That should have been obvious to you seasons ago.
Well there is a difference between being staged for a comedy skit and lying during a segment presented as a factual review.

Really if TG want to keep there humor and staged segments they should just drop the car review bits. They are only Less then 25% of the show now anyway.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
From the TG thread:

Look, I'm not a car person. I don't watch TG because they inform me about cars. I watch it because it makes me laugh.

That said, I didn't feel mislead about the Leaf segment because I paid attention. Its not hard to do.
 
The piece they did was unrealistic because the car would warn you if you didn't have enough charge to get to your destination. If you buy one of these things, you're not going to be unexpectedly stranded in some random ass town, because you will know the limits of the car.

Their anti-electric bias is very irrational and it's hilarious that they think hydrogen is the future.
 
Nappuccino said:
Look, I'm not a car person. I don't watch TG because they inform me about cars. I watch it because it makes me laugh.

That said, I didn't feel mislead about the Leaf segment because I paid attention. Its not hard to do.
I don't give a shit about cars either. I watch it for entertainment and nothing else.

However, that segment was filmed to be misleading and the fact they omitted certain facts just gives less credibility to their ability to fairly review a car. That cannot be disputed.
 
I don't follow Top Gear. Does the show hold itself out as parody, or do you fans just "get it," like with pro wrestling? It seems to me that if they are not holding themselves out as a parody show of some kind (and that official response suggests they take themselves quite seriously), it is fucked up to be misleading viewers. And it's only made worse that they are misleading the public about something that is critical to the future of the western world, IMO.
 
pj said:
The piece they did was unrealistic because the car would warn you if you didn't have enough charge to get to your destination. If you buy one of these things, you're not going to be unexpectedly stranded in some random ass town, because you will know the limits of the car.

Their anti-electric bias is very irrational and it's hilarious that they think hydrogen is the future.

Its only unrealistic if you think people are never forgetful or make false assumptions, or misjudge the total mileage of a trip they're on.

Once Quick Charge stations become more common, this will be less of an issue but the point of the review is that the electric cars are not as flexible as a petrol one right now. Three Years from now? Sure maybe. But right now they don't want to recommend it.
 
pj said:
The piece they did was unrealistic because the car would warn you if you didn't have enough charge to get to your destination. If you buy one of these things, you're not going to be unexpectedly stranded in some random ass town, because you will know the limits of the car.

Their anti-electric bias is very irrational and it's hilarious that they think hydrogen is the future.

I fail to see how electric cars are either when they're made and powered by an entire industries that themselves rely on oil.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
I don't give a shit about cars either. I watch it for entertainment and nothing else.

However, that segment was filmed to be misleading and the fact they omitted certain facts just gives less credibility to their ability to fairly review a car. That cannot be disputed.

The point wasn't "How far can the car go?" The point was "what happens if you run out of electricity in some random town because you didn't plan ahead?"

Those are two very different things.
 
That said, I didn't feel mislead about the Leaf segment because I paid attention. Its not hard to do.

Right on point, it was a entertaining piece about electric cars, not a frigging scientific experiment.....
 
Nappuccino said:
Look, I'm not a car person. I don't watch TG because they inform me about cars. I watch it because it makes me laugh.

That said, I didn't feel mislead about the Leaf segment because I paid attention. Its not hard to do.
It's just like Fox News!
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
From the TG thread:


NO NO NO NO NO NO.


I will try to phrase this as simply as possible for the folk who are being either deliberately stupid or deliberately ignorant.


-The range of the cars was never questioned

-The start point of the test was never mentioned

-The distance of the test was never mentioned

The test was about 1/one/uno/ thing, practicality of the electric battery.

It was about what happens if you get a low charge, what happens when you recharge, the effects of recharging and the cost implications of the battery.


If this appears to be a bias against electric batteries then good, because they are shit. shitty range, shitty recharge rates, shitty cost, shitty production resources and shitty lifespan. Top Gear are right nissan don't mention that fast charging will wear out your battery quickly in the PR and that they don't mention that 80% is pretty much dead for a battery.

Iam a mechanic who specialise in auto-electrics, do you know what happens when your key fob battery reaches 80%, it doesn't work, do you know what happens when your car battery is at 80%, it doesn't start.
 
If you have an electric you probably understand it's range & won't screw around like that. Fuck the car tells you. Just test it's range & bring up later why you think it's not the future (long charge times, low flexibility), which are valid.

But draining the battery to hell knowing it'll only go 30 more miles, never letting the audience in on this, and then having it die out on your show, while you go "durr, look at that, what a shit technology" is pretty bullshit.
 
pj said:
Their anti-electric bias is very irrational and it's hilarious that they think hydrogen is the future.

Hilarius how?

Hydrogen has the same range as petrol cars, with new storage technologies they'll get further and you can refill a hydrogen car in minutes.

Batteries don't have anywhere near the same range, plus they suffer from aging terribly and takes hours to charge.


Consumers don't give a shit about the earth, carbon emissions or been green. They want to know if they're new electric car is going to go the same distance, fill up the same and handle just like a normal petrol car. Something battery powered cars can't do, but hydrogen can.
 
This would be perilously close to defamation in the U.S.

Casp0r said:
Hilarius how?

Hydrogen has the same range as petrol cars, with new storage technologies they'll get further and you can refill a hydrogen car in minutes.

Batteries don't have anywhere near the same range, plus they suffer from aging terribly and takes hours to charge.


Consumers don't give a shit about the earth, carbon emissions or been green. They want to know if they're new electric car is going to go the same distance, fill up the same and handle just like a normal petrol car. Something battery powered cars can't do, but hydrogen can.
Where are you going to get hydrogen from? The magic hydrogen mine? Also, hydrogen explodes.
 
Anyone else in the UK got one of those annoying Clarkson cocksucking friends who follow his every word and subscribe to his horrible brand of right wing "anti PC" language
 
Top Gear, as much as I like it as a variety show based on car passion, has always had an agenda in favor of internal combustion cars (probably because it's a show based on car passion).
 
Nappuccino said:
Look, I'm not a car person. I don't watch TG because they inform me about cars. I watch it because it makes me laugh.

That said, I didn't feel mislead about the Leaf segment because I paid attention. Its not hard to do.
Yup, if anyone paid attention, they'd know what the real deal is. If you were surprised or are claiming ZOMG RIGGED111 then you either haven't watched Top Gear in a decade, or were making your own assumptions based on a comedic piece they made.

Just like the last Top Gear controversy, it's overblown and has manufacturers terrified of the influence of a car comedy show. Yes, they do have influence, but if Top Gear is the place you go to get informed purchasing decisions, at least stay away from the obviously comedic sketches.
 
Subliminal said:
Top gear defence force has mobilised.

-

I HATE Top Gear, and this sort if shit is the exact reason. They're proving a point and shitting over a good technology because they're cunts. It goes completely against BBC guidelines. And I don't see how watching a car being rigged to run out of battery is entertaining.
The technology isn't good, you don't really need Top Gear to tell you that. That skit didn't go against BBC guidelines either for points already made.

A lot of people seem to have a hard time grasping that Top Gear is a mix of fact and entertainment. The electric car segment was clearly only meant as entertainment, people that think Top Gear have some kind of agenda against electric powered cars are clearly mental. Electric cars are just plain awful in their current state. Guaranteed if the technology did improve to something that would actually work in the real world then you would see a piece about it on Top Gear that would show it off positively, but as it stands now it deserves a good piece of mocking entertainment.

But we won't have a thread on that will we? Nah, we'll just focus on shit that causes a bit of controversy instead.

Also many forms of entertainment are scripted. Deal with it already.
 
Casp0r said:
Hilarius how?

Hydrogen has the same range as petrol cars, with new storage technologies they'll get further and you can refill a hydrogen car in minutes.

Batteries don't have anywhere near the same range, plus they suffer from aging terribly and takes hours to charge.


Consumers don't give a shit about the earth, carbon emissions or been green. They want to know if they're new electric car is going to go the same distance, fill up the same and handle just like a normal petrol car. Something battery powered cars can't do, but hydrogen can.

Hilarious in that it would require an entirely new distribution and dispensation infrastructure, not to mention the inefficient way in which hydrogen fuel is created.
 
Who cares, me you and the rest of the people that watches Top Gear will continue watching it.

And have a good laugh as well!

Because thats why you should watch Top Gear, for the entertainment.
 
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