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[Princess Carl]

I used to be a big fan of Top Gear, but I stopped watching because it eventually started feeling too over-produced and canned.

This is a grey area. I don't think "journalistic ethics" necessarily apply. But I think it's disrespectful to your viewers to mislead them the way they did.

Ive literally had the pleasure of watching it through its entirety on netflix


The formula does not change so drastically as you put, or even if at all.

 

[Tzeentch]

LOL at anyone thinking hydrogen is the future. It's a dead end for a number of reasons, low energy density and requiring a complete distribution system change being the big ones.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

But it wasn't a test and it wasn't faked?

They took the cars for a drive and showed what happens if you let the car run out of electricity too far from a charging station.

What happens when you run out of gas too far from a filling station? Surely your premise isn't that people don't run out of gas, right?

 

[Zomba13]

IIRC didn't Jeremy and James say the cars were very good? I remember them liking them but only really having a problem with the battery (and their problem was the one demonstrated in the 'test'. The problem of running out of energy in the middle of a town due to not planning ahead right).

Anyway, I don't care much about cars at all. If anything I like how some of them look. I watch TG because it can be pretty damn funny at times even if scripted. I'm not surprised people don't like it though. It's only one of the most popular programs in the world.

 

[Betta Lines]

The point was that it's very difficult to determine your range on battery as it fluctuates wildy depending on driving style/conditions. And with charge points so hard to find, it's all the more important that you can plan where you need to be when it runs low.

And yes, they said the cars themselves were great.

 

[Antagon]

What happens when you run out of gas too far from a filling station? Surely your premise isn't that people don't run out of gas, right?

You really can't see the point? Petrol stations are never far away and refilling a car takes a couple of minutes. This is a big downside of electric cars and should be shown.

Stupid complaint from Nissan if nothing was mentioned about the distance they had driven. Had the episode been any different if they had started with a full battery and drove a longer distance?

 

[StealthGoblin]

What happens when you run out of gas too far from a filling station? Surely your premise isn't that people don't run out of gas, right?

There are more petrol stations around than dedicated charge stations for electric cars. They made that point in the film. Once there are more their point will be negated.

The point of the film was to show the pro's and cons of electric cars. They did that.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

What happens when you run out of gas too far from a filling station? Surely your premise isn't that people don't run out of gas, right?

whoooosh

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Top Gear lol

 

[Buddha Beam]

If you don't mind waiting 10-12 hours for your car to recharge, then that's fine. For the majority of car drivers, it's a total deal breaker.

Weak excuse, chief. If people charge their freakin' phones every night, I think they can quite easily get into the habit of charging their cars.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Weak excuse, chief. If people charge their freakin' phones every night, I think they can quite easily get into the habit of charging their cars.

yeah that 30 minutes it takes to charge my cell phone is spot-on comparable

 

[Gattsu25]

Weak excuse, chief. If people charge their freakin' phones every night, I think they can quite easily get into the habit of charging their cars.

My phone charges in under 1hr

 

[Buddha Beam]

yeah that 30 minutes it takes to charge my cell phone is spot-on comparable

It is comparable. You get home at 6 or so and plug it in. Leave the next morning at 7 or so. At most, you'll have to go mayyyyybe one place at night after you get home. Maybe. And even then, just plug the thing back in. Most people aren't going to suck up a full charge in a day to begin with so it's not like they'll be pulling up with a 3% chrage remaining or something. You'll be recharging from at least 25-40%, odds are.

 

[Oppo]

When I need a refill on my propane tank for my BBQ, I take the empty tank to the hardware store and they give me a full tank, while taking my empty. Straight swap.

Any reason we can't do this with EV cars?

 

[satriales]

Did anyone here even watch this Top Gear episode?

I don't recall them being misleading about ranges and actually recall them specifically mentioning the expected range as being ~150miles. When in Lincoln the nearest charge point was 60miles so even on a full charge it would be extremely impractical.

 

[Sapiens]

When I need a refill on my propane tank for my BBQ, I take the empty tank to the hardware store and they give me a full tank, while taking my empty. Straight swap.

Any reason we can't do this with EV cars?

Yes. Many.

Do you have any idea how large and integrated into the body of the vehicle these batteries are?

 

[Complex Shadow]

Weak excuse, chief. If people charge their freakin' phones every night, I think they can quite easily get into the habit of charging their cars.

if i forget my to charge my phone for a night or two. at least i can charge it in class. what if you forget to charge your car, then your fucked.

 

[DrForester]

Posted in the Top Gear thread, but I have no problem with this.

When you go on a trip in a regular car, you don't have to make sure the tank is 100% full.

I think it's pretty stupid of Nissan and other electric car companies to give a car with such a limited range to a TV show with guys who love to drive. And I don't expect Top Gear to give the Electric Cars a free pass for all their limitations.

I also would not be shocked the learn that (other than races) Top Gear doesn't ensure their tanks are 100% full on gas cars before doing something.

 

[satriales]

What happens when you run out of gas too far from a filling station? Surely your premise isn't that people don't run out of gas, right?

You have a petrol can in the boot. If it's empty or you don't have one then you got for a 10 minute walk to the nearest petrol station and buy one, or you phone a friend to bring you some petrol.

 

[Sapiens]

if i forget my to charge my phone for a night or two. at least i can charge it in class. what if you forget to charge our car, then your fucked.

The beauty of capitalism is that you can chose what kind of car you want. If you want a gas powered vehicle, it will still be an option.

If you choose to go EV, you can choose not to be a fuck up and plug you car in before you go to bed.

 

[DrForester]

The beauty of capitalism is that you can chose what kind of car you want. If you want a gas powered vehicle, it will still be an option.

If you choose to go EV, you can choose not to be a fuck up and plug you car in before you go to bed.

Beauty of running a comapny that makes is electric cars is that you can chose not to give it to a show that loves to drive cars into the ground and won't be operating under the ideal test conditions you have at your factory.

 

[Sapiens]

Beauty of running a comapny that makes is electric cars is that you can chose not to give it to a show that loves to drive cars into the ground and won't be operating under the ideal test conditions you have at your factory.

Tell me about it. You'd think that after seeing how bad Clarkson fucked Telsa's image, other EV manufacturers would stay away from this biased (albeit often entertaining) show.

 

[DrForester]

Tell me about it. You'd think that after seeing how bad Clarkson fucked Telsa's image, other EV manufacturers would stay away from this biased (albeit often entertaining) show.

Or realize that Top Gear isn't going to sit back and praise all the limitations of the Electric car and not point them out and just give them a pass.

The entire segment they did I thought was very fair, they treated it like any other road test they do, and held the car to the same expectations.

 

[AMUSIX]

The Top Gear defenders here are absurd.

They got hit on pretending to run out of charge with the Tesla, so this time they went out of their way to pre-drain the battery. This is so fucking underhanded it's not even funny.

"but it's an entertainment show!"...it's still grossly misrepresenting the car on a show that a LOT of people take at its word. Are we supposed to assume ever figure, every test drive, every 'fact' they state is just BS?

Why didn't they start the petrol car with only 10 litres in the tank?

Yes, the quick charge infrastructure is not in place, but that's not the fault of the car. The fact is, the Nissan far outperforms what they represented on the show, and could easily pass the tests they set up. When they realized this, they rigged the test.

 

[The Technomancer]

Over what? correctly stated pitfalls of their electric car? Your response is utter nonsense.

Someone claimed they were showing what happens when an electric car runs out far from a charging station. Thats like running a "test" to show people what happens when you run out of gasoline in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, real informative.

 

[Barrett2]

Completely ignore the point of the feature though, it was to highlight the pitfalls of electric, and at no point was a start point or distance mentioned so they are irrelevant to the feature.

to quote myself from the top gear thread regarding top gears defence-

'He is right though, at no point did they mention the start point of the trip or the mileage to be covered, if he said 'we will cover 110 miles' and then didn't mention that the batteries were only half full then Nissan would have a point, by not stating the start point then that is removed from the test, after all you don't start every car trip with a full tank of fuel and you cant presume you will start every trip with a full battery.

If the point was to highlight the potential shortfalls of the battery packs then it was successful.'


If you are low on fuel then it takes minutes to get to a petrol station and be on your way again, if you are low on battery power it will take hours to resume your journey, that was the point of the feature.

holy shit...

 

[ShadyMilkman]

It is comparable. You get home at 6 or so and plug it in. Leave the next morning at 7 or so. At most, you'll have to go mayyyyybe one place at night after you get home. Maybe. And even then, just plug the thing back in. Most people aren't going to suck up a full charge in a day to begin with so it's not like they'll be pulling up with a 3% chrage remaining or something. You'll be recharging from at least 25-40%, odds are.

The ease of remembering to charge the battery overnight isn't the issue, so

 

[XMonkey]

Lots of opinions masquerading as facts in this thread.

Did anyone here even watch this Top Gear episode?

I don't recall them being misleading about ranges and actually recall them specifically mentioning the expected range as being ~150miles. When in Lincoln the nearest charge point was 60miles so even on a full charge it would be extremely impractical.

Indeed.

ITT: Faux outrage from people who haven't seen the episode. The point of the segment was not a range test, but to show what could happen if you run out of electricity in an electric-only car. They ran down the batteries simply so that they wouldn't have to drive the full 100 miles or whatever it gets to film the segment.

It's also en entertainment show, not Consumer Reports.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I rarely watch top gear but this is going to bring me to never touch that show again. Hope the uk and us shows get canceled.

 

[DrForester]

The Top Gear defenders here are absurd.

They got hit on pretending to run out of charge with the Tesla, so this time they went out of their way to pre-drain the battery. This is so fucking underhanded it's not even funny.

"but it's an entertainment show!"...it's still grossly misrepresenting the car on a show that a LOT of people take at its word. Are we supposed to assume ever figure, every test drive, every 'fact' they state is just BS?

Why didn't they start the petrol car with only 10 litres in the tank?

Yes, the quick charge infrastructure is not in place, but that's not the fault of the car. The fact is, the Nissan far outperforms what they represented on the show, and could easily pass the tests they set up. When they realized this, they rigged the test.

I think there's a big difference between intentionally "draining the battery" and accounting for the fact they might have USED the car prior to the trip.

What if they did start with 10l int he back? It gets low, they pull into a station, that's what.

 

[Ponti]

Yes, the quick charge infrastructure is not in place, but that's not the fault of the car. The fact is, the Nissan far outperforms what they represented on the show, and could easily pass the tests they set up. When they realized this, they rigged the test.

Since I'm curious and it hasn't really been answered yet. Why do you think Top Gear are rigging 'tests' with electric cars?

 

[giri]

The beauty of capitalism is that you can chose what kind of car you want. If you want a gas powered vehicle, it will still be an option.

If you choose to go EV, you can choose not to be a fuck up and plug you car in before you go to bed.

The enforced naivety of your posts to refuse to recognize real world problems with your solution harms your argument 10fold, rather than acknowledging the limitation and accepting it for what it is.

Do you work for Nissans PR department or something?

Someone claimed they were showing what happens when an electric car runs out far from a charging station. Thats like running a "test" to show people what happens when you run out of gasoline in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, real informative.

I'm going to assume you haven't seen the segment, because a lot of what you said there is just not relevant. Not to mention your comparison is part of the segment it self.

 

[markot]

What tools >_>

And it isnt just an entertainment show, people watch it for news and reviews on cars.

 

[AMUSIX]

I think there's a big difference between intentionally "draining the battery" and accounting for the fact they might have USED the car prior to the trip.

They got to Lincoln and then drove around in circles, that is purposeful pre-draining, beyond even starting the trip with only 40 percent charge.

 

[satriales]

The Top Gear defenders here are absurd.

They got hit on pretending to run out of charge with the Tesla, so this time they went out of their way to pre-drain the battery. This is so fucking underhanded it's not even funny.

"but it's an entertainment show!"...it's still grossly misrepresenting the car on a show that a LOT of people take at its word. Are we supposed to assume ever figure, every test drive, every 'fact' they state is just BS?

Why didn't they start the petrol car with only 10 litres in the tank?

Yes, the quick charge infrastructure is not in place, but that's not the fault of the car. The fact is, the Nissan far outperforms what they represented on the show, and could easily pass the tests they set up. When they realized this, they rigged the test.

No they showed the difference between electric cars and petrol cars. The start of the feature they had about 30 miles of charge left which in a petrol car is nothing to worry about, but when they search for the nearest charge point there are none within 60 miles and so it is a big problem for the elctric car. Of course they knew this before even starting the test but it is a point worth showing as anyone buying the car is going to have to change their whle perspective on driving and plan every single journey. They also specifically mention that on a full charge the Leaf will do ~150 miles so it's not misleading at all.

Starting a petrol car with 10 litres in the tank is not the same at all, but if they had done that they wouldn't have run into many problems as it's always easy to get petrol from somewhere and be on your way again. Charging a car for over 10hrs is not nearly as practical and so it is another point worth making.

 

[mclaren777]

I honestly can't take the show seriously after this.

You took it seriously before?!

Most of the content on Top Gear is incredibly contrived. I thought everybody knew that.


Edit: beaten

 

[Sapiens]

The enforced naivety of your posts to refuse to recognize real world problems with your solution harms your argument 10fold, rather than acknowledging the limitation and accepting it for what it is.

Do you work for Nissans PR department or something?

Hyperbole much? I'm going to ask that you prove how exactly my solution of not forgetting to plug in your car at night is not valid and harms my argument 10 fold.

Where did this '10' come from?

Seriously.

People are now being allowed to choose what kind of car they want and that's fantastic. If you want gas, you're probably going to be able to get a cheaper car that can actually be pretty damn efficient.

If you want to go electric, you do have to consider the limitations of living in a petrol world. Ie, not forgetting to plug your car in at night.

 

[Oppo]

Yes. Many.

Do you have any idea how large and integrated into the body of the vehicle these batteries are?

Nope. That's why I asked.

Edit: just out of curiosity I did a little searching. It's already being experimented with. Wikipedia doesn't mention a size issue.
link

 

[markot]

No they showed the difference between electric cars and petrol cars. The start of the feature they had about 30 miles of charge left which in a petrol car is nothing to worry about, but when they search for the nearest charge point there are none within 60 miles and so it is a big problem for the elctric car. Of course they knew this before even starting the test but it is a point worth showing as anyone buying the car is going to have to change their whle perspective on driving and plan every single journey. They also specifically mention that on a full charge the Leaf will do ~150 miles so it's not misleading at all.

Starting a petrol car with 10 litres in the tank is not the same at all, but if they had done that they wouldn't have run into many problems as it's always easy to get petrol from somewhere and be on your way again. Charging a car for over 10hrs is not nearly as practical and so it is another point worth making.

They concluded that "electric cars are not the future".

Do you think petrol stations were all over the place when cars were taking off? Its the first real wave of electric cars. To expect recharge stations all over the place is stupid, to say that 'they are not the future' is just pure bs.

 

[satriales]

They concluded that "electric cars are not the future".

Do you think petrol stations were all over the place when cars were taking off? Its the first real wave of electric cars. To expect recharge stations all over the place is stupid, to say that 'they are not the future' is just pure bs.

These are cars you can buy now, so the main point of the feature was to show how impractical they currently are. They said that technology will improve with time but that they still don't see it as the answer to replace petrol, and instead hydrogen is looking like the better technology.

I felt the feature was fair and reasonable, especially for Top Gear.

 

[Kaako]

Top Gear vs electric cars: teenagers vs parents.

 

[AMUSIX]

No they showed the difference between electric cars and petrol cars. The start of the feature they had about 30 miles of charge left which in a petrol car is nothing to worry about, but when they search for the nearest charge point there are none within 60 miles and so it is a big problem for the elctric car. Of course they knew this before even starting the test but it is a point worth showing as anyone buying the car is going to have to change their whle perspective on driving and plan every single journey. They also specifically mention that on a full charge the Leaf will do ~150 miles so it's not misleading at all.

Starting a petrol car with 10 litres in the tank is not the same at all, but if they had done that they wouldn't have run into many problems as it's always easy to get petrol from somewhere and be on your way again. Charging a car for over 10hrs is not nearly as practical and so it is another point worth making.

Actually, starting a petrol car with only 10 litres in the tank is exactly the same thing, its starting a road trip with only 30 miles left to go. The difference isn't in the cars, it's in the energy infrastructure. I've run out of gas in the middle of nowhere...problem wasn't the car, it was that I couldn't find an open station within 80 miles.

I did watch the segment, and, while not nearly as intentionally misleading as the Tesla segment, it had the same negative bias. They point to the car as the fault of being stranded, rather than their approach to it. Anyone starting a 120 mile round trip on 40% charge is a moron, and the fault lies with them, not with the vehicle.

These are cars you can buy now, so the main point of the feature was to show how impractical they currently are. They said that technology will improve with time but that they still don't see it as the answer to replace petrol, and instead hydrogen is looking like the better technology.

I felt the feature was fair and reasonable, especially for Top Gear.

Gas-powered cars were available for decades before a fueling infrastructure existed. Of course, there were people then who were calling them 'NOT THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE' and totally inferior to horses (which could just be refueled in any field). Then again, those people were narrow minded fools who have since been proved grossly wrong.


hmm...you don't ride a horse, do you?

 

[giri]

Hyperbole much? I'm going to ask that you prove how exactly my solution of not forgetting to plug in your car at night is not valid and harms my argument 10 fold.

Where did this '10' come from?

Seriously.

People are now being allowed to choose what kind of car they want and that's fantastic. If you want gas, you're probably going to be able to get a cheaper car that can actually be pretty damn efficient.

If you want to go electric, you do have to consider the limitations of living in a petrol world. Ie, not forgetting to plug your car in at night.

Yes, the small string you should tie your boat too here is the figure, 10.

We don't live in a perfect world. We are not all infallible creatures. We are flawed beings. To think that the possibility of someone not remembering to charge their car every night is remote, or irreleveant, is entirely condescending to the people you are discussing the topic with.

And what do you do on the occasion where you want to drive a distance >60 miles away? (i think it was 60 miles stated as the range, or 100). Are you meant to pull over and wait for it to charge? for ... 10+ hours? 60 / 100 miles is only 2 or 3 hours worth of driving at worst, which whilst not going to be done every day, is something that you do have to consider. How does a family justify the purchase of an EV? Particularly if the kids are playing sport all over town?

It's not as simple as saying "you should've plugged it in". The recharge time is a large factor that to mind, makes it marketable to a very small segment of the market. As you say, go capitalism, you now have that choice. But it's a very valid flaw.

And for the record, 10 fold is just a saying.

 

[Sapiens]

Nope. That's why I asked.

Edit: just out of curiosity I did a little searching. It's already being experimented with. Wikipedia doesn't mention a size issue.
link

Interesting. Seems to be a lot of interesting variations of solving the issues of charge-time.

Thanks for the knowledge and I apologise if I came off rude.

 

[DrForester]

They concluded that "electric cars are not the future".

Do you think petrol stations were all over the place when cars were taking off? Its the first real wave of electric cars. To expect recharge stations all over the place is stupid, to say that 'they are not the future' is just pure bs.

There's a lot of people who don't think EV is the future (and I'm not talking people who see no future in any alternative energy for cars). Top Gear has (and even in this episode) raved once again about Hydrogen.

 

[Sapiens]

Yes, the small string you should tie your boat too here is the figure, 10.

We don't live in a perfect world. We are not all infallible creatures. We are flawed beings. To think that the possibility of someone not remembering to charge their car every night is remote, or irreleveant, is entirely condescending to the people you are discussing the topic with.

And what do you do on the occasion where you want to drive a distance >60 miles away? (i think it was 60 miles stated as the range, or 100). Are you meant to pull over and wait for it to charge? for ... 10+ hours? 60 / 100 miles is only 2 or 3 hours worth of driving at worst, which whilst not going to be done every day, is something that you do have to consider. How does a family justify the purchase of an EV? Particularly if the kids are playing sport all over town?

It's not as simple as saying "you should've plugged it in". The recharge time is a large factor that to mind, makes it marketable to a very small segment of the market. As you say, go capitalism, you now have that choice. But it's a very valid flaw.

And for the record, 10 fold is just a saying.

For a guy struggling to sound so smart, it has the effect of making you come off as something else.

Also, the leaf's range is over 100 miles, if I'm not mistaken. You might be basing some of your assumptions off of what Top Gear is telling us.

The fact of the matter is that people need to be educated on the limitations of an EV, and Top Gear is doing that in a very bad way, IMO.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Someone claimed they were showing what happens when an electric car runs out far from a charging station. Thats like running a "test" to show people what happens when you run out of gasoline in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, real informative.

That's a really stupid point. If you run out of gas, we have the infrastructure (read: shitloads of gas stations) to make that an easy problem to solve. You run out electricity away from any charge stations, you are screwed. It will be very inconvenient to charge your car back up and so it requires that you completely plan your driving routes to see if it's actually possible for your electric car to get you to your destination on time.

As a commuter car driving the same route every day, it may make sense but it can't really replace all your driving needs.

 

[satriales]

I've run out of gas in the middle of nowhere...problem wasn't the car, it was that I couldn't find an open station within 80 miles.

In the UK you are never 80 miles away from a petrol station, but if you put both petrol and electric cars in that situation (80 miles from a petrol station or charge point) then with the petrol car you can either stop another motorist and see if they'll help or call breakdown assistance and buy some petrol of them, then be on your way again. With the electric car you have to push it to a charge point or have it towed, and then you wait 12hrs for it to charge.

I did watch the segment, and, while not nearly as intentionally misleading as the Tesla segment, it had the same negative bias. They point to the car as the fault of being stranded, rather than their approach to it. Anyone starting a 120 mile round trip on 40% charge is a moron, and the fault lies with them, not with the vehicle.

They didn't do a 120 mile round trip, they did a 60 mile trip. It was clear that when we joined them the battery was not fully charged as they said they had 30 miles charge and that on a full battery it can do over 100 miles.

 

[markot]

There's a lot of people who don't think EV is the future (and I'm not talking people who see no future in any alternative energy for cars). Top Gear has (and even in this episode) raved once again about Hydrogen.

It may not be the future, but at least give it an honest review? Dont use your bias and bs to try and spin results in your favour?

 

[DrForester]

It may not be the future, but at least give it an honest review? Dont use your bias and bs to try and spin results in your favour?

Once again, pointing out it's range limitations, and treating that as a major disadvantage (whether doing it on screen, or just talking about it) is fair. There IS a limitation to the tech right now, and I don't expect them to give the car a pass because it's green (especially these guys).