-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Torment: Tides of Numenera |OT| What Can Change The Nature of a Man?
- Thread starter valentine71
- Start date
D
Deleted member 59090
Unconfirmed Member
I'm 24 hours in. I really like what I've played so far but for the love of god why is
so loud?! Throughout most of the dialogues all I can hear is the same sound. It's driving me insane.
Callistege
Mister_Bubbles
Member
Tyranny had exposure at conventions and stuff, pretty sure I remember an E3 section on it somewhere, whereas (and I could be wrong) I don't recall Torment having the same level of promotion.
Just beat it; took me 23 hours and exploring fairly thoroughly. Overall I thought it was pretty good despite some flaws. I enjoyed the world, setting, and music, but found the writing, which makes up the bulk of the game, to not quite hit the mark. It's verbose, but missing enough character and a unique voice to justify its length IMO. It's still solid and worth playing regardless, but Avellone's presence is missed here.
Torment took forever to release. First time publisher, particularly compared to Paradox. General backer skepticism due to InXile's handling. And, frankly, I just think most people already saw Obsidian as the "heirs" to the Interplay/Black Isle folks, not InXile.
Not surprising to me that Torment's had tepid commercial performance so far.
Not surprising to me that Torment's had tepid commercial performance so far.
Fuz
Banned
I'm an old school gamer.
I loved Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment and I generally really like all those games. I liked PoE. I liked Tyranny even more.
Now.
I'm having a really, really hard time liking Tides of Numenera. I'm trying with all my being to like it, but I'm constantly pushed off.
To make matters worse, I think that right now the game cut me off from a very important thing without giving a warning or a second chance. If it really is how I think it is, I have no words on how dumb the devs have been. Hope I'm wrong, but a quick search on the subreddit is telling me I'm right.
I'll elaborate later after I'll play it some more.
I loved Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment and I generally really like all those games. I liked PoE. I liked Tyranny even more.
Now.
I'm having a really, really hard time liking Tides of Numenera. I'm trying with all my being to like it, but I'm constantly pushed off.
To make matters worse, I think that right now the game cut me off from a very important thing without giving a warning or a second chance. If it really is how I think it is, I have no words on how dumb the devs have been. Hope I'm wrong, but a quick search on the subreddit is telling me I'm right.
I'll elaborate later after I'll play it some more.
So I just found something delightful. I was afk and forgot to pause, when I came back Rhin was singing and it was one of the most beautiful insignificant detail I've ever witnessed. Don't know if it was bound to the location I was at and/or how far I was in her personal quest but I was a nice surprise.
We'll always have that little moment.
We'll always have that little moment.
Goodbye Rhin :'(
Solid Sora
Member
So, I have a problem with this genre of game, at least based on my experience with PoE..
I LOVE the kind of writing they offer. They're just so unique, fleshed out, and too much fun for someone who likes tons of text in his video game.
On the other hand, I despise the combat. I find it utterly uninteresting and too complicated for my taste.
I tried to play Planescape: Torment a while ago and had the exact same experience, except the combat was even worse for me. Couldn't make a progress in that game at all.
So, how avoidable the combat is in this? Is there an easy (turn your head off and enjoy the story) mode where I don't even need to understand how stats works? If not, and I'm sorry if I'm getting out of topic here, is there another CRPGs with great story that can be played with minimal combat?
I LOVE the kind of writing they offer. They're just so unique, fleshed out, and too much fun for someone who likes tons of text in his video game.
On the other hand, I despise the combat. I find it utterly uninteresting and too complicated for my taste.
I tried to play Planescape: Torment a while ago and had the exact same experience, except the combat was even worse for me. Couldn't make a progress in that game at all.
So, how avoidable the combat is in this? Is there an easy (turn your head off and enjoy the story) mode where I don't even need to understand how stats works? If not, and I'm sorry if I'm getting out of topic here, is there another CRPGs with great story that can be played with minimal combat?
swarley64
Member
Very avoidable. I'm 12 hours in and I've only gotten into about four fights. And most of them were for side-quests.
They increase in the second half of the game.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
There's only one bad mandatory fight in The Bloom. Endgame has some forced fights but they're not nearly as bad, especially the huge fight between The Bloom,
The Sorrow and The First Castoff
Agreed, there typically are ways to avoid a bulk of the crises in the game.
KraftyKrankins
Member
For everyone that feels that the writing isn't up to par, just wait until you reach past
. I feel like I need to reread every sentence three times and have a dictionary on me.
...also those that feel the writing is a bit overdone may find something to prove their point even further too.
The Endless Gate
...also those that feel the writing is a bit overdone may find something to prove their point even further too.
True. Zelda's kind of kicked it to the back burner for now, though I think I may get back into that anyway as it scratches a different itch fundamentally.
Finally got to the ending. Feels like I just finished reading a book about philosophy and morality. Which is exactly how I felt at the end of PS:T, so job well done!
I really wonder how many different endings there are. I don't think I'm going to go back to that final confrontation and talk it through differently. I will probably play it again someday though.
Some HUGE SPOILERS regarding my ending, companions, and their endings in the text below so don't click if you don't want to know.
Overall its a flawed game that I really liked quite a lot. The writing is still pretty good generally but there are a few parts that could use some editing. The setting is truely FANTASTIC. I just want every CRPG from now on set in this world. They can really do ANYTHING with it. Make it starting point for a space adventure, or a swords & sorcery epic. The setting is the best part of the game, hands down. The combat, like in the previous torment game is a means to an end. I did like the tabletop feel to the system, but the long time to switch between turns and the random hangs during battle, or the inexplicably bad pathfinding at times weights it all down. Don't get into combat if you can help it, which suits me just fine as I get more time to read all the great writing.
I really wonder how many different endings there are. I don't think I'm going to go back to that final confrontation and talk it through differently. I will probably play it again someday though.
Some HUGE SPOILERS regarding my ending, companions, and their endings in the text below so don't click if you don't want to know.
SERIOUSLY, don't do it unless you want those spoils. Going to spoil the heck out of Rhin, Erritis and Callistige, and maybe Matkina? As well as the ending I got and my feelings about the plot somewhat.
Rhin: I almost jumped for joy when she came back as a woman inside the Labyrinth. Such a wonderful end to probably my favorite companion. I don't know that going through the game next time will be nearly as fun without her.
Erritis: So in the Labyrinth portal you are finally able to cast out the Audience and return him to a simple farmer. I had to do it. I don't think it mattered much in the end as you don't need many companions for the final crises (thank god), but I still felt bad. There was no good resolution though. Even with them subdued he was still at their beck and call somewhat.
Callistige: After summoning her when I sent Rhin home, she ended up being mostly useless since she was super-low leveled. So in the final Labyrinth meeting I let her merge with the Datasphere as she wanted. Probably was a way to have see humanity in a single time but didn't really care much about her character, so meh. Fun ending scrawl for her though. Immortal but totally forgotten.
Matkina: I think I probably did the worst by her with the ending I chose. I don't know what her real ending would have been since the ending I chose merged the castoffs and she was killed as result. Probably the one I feel the worst about, but since all the castoffs were pretty much royal screwups, she probably would have done something not wonderful with her life anyhow.
Overall Ending: Letting the Changing God's Daughter get a real shot at life seemed the most just thing to do. Even though part of me wanted to find a way to keep the castoffs alive (the Changing God already being dead), I thought it seemed more ethical to give the one blameless victim a chance. I can tell that I liked the ending because like in PS:T I had to sit at several of those prompts and consider for several minutes. That is the kind of writing I like! Definitely some great stuff in there. Very much a Torment game feeling there. That said as others have voiced, the "twist" that the Memovira is actually the First Castoff feels lame. It's like some M. Night Shamalyan stuff, except you had no way to ever know before you find out. That twist didn't feel earned in retrospect. I liked the part of the Changing God's story that he had a real daughter and tried to put her in the first's body (I think that's the impilication there), but it didn't work. Though I think too much of that story was saved for the end of the game and it would have been nice to see more of it doled out earlier to create a reason to be invested in the Last Castoff's quest. As it was, repairing the chamber seemed really pointless most of the game. Especially after you find out the Specter *IS* the Changing God. Fuck that guy, I'm not helping him. Why should I repair his shit? That part isn't explained until WAY later after you've already done the repair.
Overall its a flawed game that I really liked quite a lot. The writing is still pretty good generally but there are a few parts that could use some editing. The setting is truely FANTASTIC. I just want every CRPG from now on set in this world. They can really do ANYTHING with it. Make it starting point for a space adventure, or a swords & sorcery epic. The setting is the best part of the game, hands down. The combat, like in the previous torment game is a means to an end. I did like the tabletop feel to the system, but the long time to switch between turns and the random hangs during battle, or the inexplicably bad pathfinding at times weights it all down. Don't get into combat if you can help it, which suits me just fine as I get more time to read all the great writing.
Finished.
Still, I guess I enjoyed this last part, the Bloom was a fairly good area the redeemed the title for me, it had some pretty good quests, it felt more coherent and better designed than any area of the game and I liked how many quests/NPC intersected.
The cast was really super boring, the only one I liked were Rhin (She had a decent emotional connection with the main character, but her ending felt half-assed) and Erritis. Matkina was OK, but she felt severally underwriter/underused. Callistege being so boring despite her circumstances was an accomplishment itself.
The Last Castoff was also a super-dull main character, he felt less interested than me in his life story. They couldn't even bother to come up with persuasion speeches for some persuasion dialogues. In comparison, TNO had a fairly good humor, could come up with some pretty convincing arguments and his lines oozed charisma.
I'm glad I played it, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. I stand by my opinion that Mask felt like a better spiritual successor to Torment than this.
The ending and the ending's revelations were quite meh, and honestly kinda whatever. I didn't have any strong feelings toward them, they just... happened.
Still, I guess I enjoyed this last part, the Bloom was a fairly good area the redeemed the title for me, it had some pretty good quests, it felt more coherent and better designed than any area of the game and I liked how many quests/NPC intersected.
The cast was really super boring, the only one I liked were Rhin (She had a decent emotional connection with the main character, but her ending felt half-assed) and Erritis. Matkina was OK, but she felt severally underwriter/underused. Callistege being so boring despite her circumstances was an accomplishment itself.
The Last Castoff was also a super-dull main character, he felt less interested than me in his life story. They couldn't even bother to come up with persuasion speeches for some persuasion dialogues. In comparison, TNO had a fairly good humor, could come up with some pretty convincing arguments and his lines oozed charisma.
I'm glad I played it, but I wouldn't recommend it personally. I stand by my opinion that Mask felt like a better spiritual successor to Torment than this.
At least it was better than Tyranny.
I just completed the game.
I'll have to reflect on it a bit, but the fact that I completed a 30+ hour single-player game within 2 weeks of its release alone indicated that I liked it a whole lot -- I don't play many games this intensely these days.
I'll have to reflect on it a bit, but the fact that I completed a 30+ hour single-player game within 2 weeks of its release alone indicated that I liked it a whole lot -- I don't play many games this intensely these days.
This is a good point, I felt the same.
Agreed. The flaws are mostly in areas I can rather easily forgive, and its strengths are in areas that I find frequently lacking in games.
So for those who finished the game and went through the crisis stuff in the second half of the game, would you still recommend continuing with the game (I'm enjoying it so far, but still in Sagus), or just wait it out until Inxile improves the crisis mechanics as they have said they will do?
Well, ultimately for me it was maybe 1 hour spent in Crisis encounters across 30 hours of playing the game. And of that hour, only a smaller part still was in large-scale encounters where it really breaks down. The system is very far from optimal, but I wouldn't classify it as a huge deterrent.
More_Badass
Member
Very different games and audience. Plus Tyranny appeals to a much broader audience than Torment. Crowdfunding success doesn't mean much in that regard
Honestly I half AFKed during most Crisis as I waited for the Castoff turn so he could use the massive 20 dmg+ aoe attack.
This said, they are not frequent enough that it's worth waiting, if you are enjoying the game.
Oh? Maybe I should stop my struggle with Returns and try my hand at Dragonfall.
AHA-Lambda
Member
For all that I played, there really is only like one particiularly bad encounter
which is much easier if you get the transdimensional scalpel from another side quest
HOLY SHIT YES. That spoiler linked above was amazing in some areas in
the Bloom
I did not care for Returns and really enjoyed my time with Dragonfall.
Hong Kong was fun too, except for all
matrix parts
And Torment was the best rpg kickstarter right? Look how it's turning out. I really hoped it would sell better initially. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but can't help to feel a bit pessimistic. The audience is there and I'm sure DOS2 and PoE2 will make money but I don't think PoE and DOS sale figures can be replicated for a while.
Red or Alive
Neo Member
So... I've exhausted pretty much all the side quests in Sagus Cliffs. At least, I think I have.
I'd like to reach the Memovira... is it possible at this stage of the game? The doorman won't let me through so I can't speak to the Memovira or enter The Bloom. Are there alternative entrances?
I'd like to reach the Memovira... is it possible at this stage of the game? The doorman won't let me through so I can't speak to the Memovira or enter The Bloom. Are there alternative entrances?
Quoting my question from way back on the first page as nobody seemed to notice or answer it abd the game has been out for a while now. Can anyone answer this for me please?
you can't go there right now
pretty sure I'm at the penultimate or final crisis now. It's super annoying/slow, but it seems it can be donerather quickly at least
btw, does anyone know what the Decanted actually do?
Just wondering, because you could send Rhys with them but they seemingly do something horrible to their guest
Oh you can find out what the Decanted actually do. Since you don't know, I'll let you keep playing and enjoy the story as it unfolds. =)
I found it okay, from what little I tried. The camera is tied to the player, so you can't wander the viewpoint independently, as with KBM. The selection is tied to the vicinity of the player, if there are multiple objects nearby you use left or right shoulder buttons to select which one you want to interact with. The menus where okay to use, could become more of a hassle later in the game as you get more stuff. Since most of what you do is reading and selecting answers, it should work okay.
Thanks! How about inventory management? Was that handled well via controller? It was a major hassle in Divinity.
The big "issue" with Divinity was that there was so much stuff you could pick up, pretty much anything in the environment, candles, chairs, you name it. Certain that this game will have way less.
Torment has a radial short-list of usable items, that looks like this. And the general inventory is here. As I said, I think it's rather straight-forward, maybe one bad thing is that you can't easily go from the cyphers to the normal items, so navigating could be tiring if you ever need to look up stuff often. A lot of details are, afaik, only readable by mouse-over, like the information about your current dominant tide. And they don't make the mouse cursor invisible, which can be annoying. Presumably that last one is not present on the console version.
You can't filter stuff or order them somehow (which you could in D:OS), but again, that might not really be needed.
I finished it. My quick spoiler-free opinion: I didn't enjoy it, it tried way to hard to be fanservice for PS:T instead of going on its own path. It is also fundamentally unfinished, with glitches, typos, a horrible minigame that serves as combat and railroading in places I didn't expect it.
Full spoilers:
Full spoilers:
I'm going to set aside all the broken stuff, I'm sure inXile will eventually fix most of the fixable stuff and release a Director's Cut or whatever. I will say that the state the game was released it is not acceptable.
What I liked about the game were the hub areas, there were plenty of interesting characters and quests. I enjoyed the skill use in dialog along with the effort system, as I said I can see this working out pretty decently for a combat light White Wolf game. I also liked Rhin, Erritis and Matkina. Some of the meres were interesting as well, but a lot of them could use some more work in terms of editing and giving you more meaningful interaction. Oh and the ending slides were also nice.
Unfortunately, the list of stuff I didn't like is quite a bit longer. I personally don't enjoy the setting at all, it feels like an unfocused kitchen sink of literally everything with little thought put into how places and characters relate to each other, just throw a bunch of cool stuff in there and call it a setting. While Planescape is a crazy setting, everything is there for a reason, symbolic or otherwise, the setting feels lived in and bigger than the scope of the Nameless One's (considerable) escapades.
I generally have a strong dislike for any "morality systems" and the tides affinity was no different. If your game is up to snuff, your character's actions should speak for themselves, not be a sum numbers on a single axis or a magic 5-pointed star. The actual "power of tides" in the game was a very vague McGuffin that was done better in PS:T, KOTOR 2 and MotB.
What does one life matter? Not much apparently, castoffs were dime a dozen, dying left right and center with little or no consequence. I'm still not sure why the Changing God didn't make sure to kill any previous bodies or why they sprouted consciousnesses in the first place, seems like a pretty big problem, Sorrow or no.
All the not-so-subtle callbacks to PS:T got really annoying after a while. I can live with a few nods and winks, but basically the whole structure is the same, the immortality, force-of-nature thing stalking you, getting memory flashes at convenient times and being the cause of most of the plot in the first place.
PS:T's story gave you agency, let you make your own discoveries(or not) and in the end let you accept your fate. This felt like all your choices were made for you, you were running around at someone else's whim until the Sorrow decided to be a nice dude and let you choose whatever you want to do in the end.
Lastly, the companions as a whole were quite a disappointment. They were barely involved in the story, had at best a single quest and a few things to talk about, not to mention being exclusively boring humans (considering the possibilities presented even in game as it is now). Even poor Nordom alone had more interaction than any companion here. I do admit that having to choose between giving Erritis his old life back and keeping my one way of dealing with combat-focused Crises was a tough choice.
What I liked about the game were the hub areas, there were plenty of interesting characters and quests. I enjoyed the skill use in dialog along with the effort system, as I said I can see this working out pretty decently for a combat light White Wolf game. I also liked Rhin, Erritis and Matkina. Some of the meres were interesting as well, but a lot of them could use some more work in terms of editing and giving you more meaningful interaction. Oh and the ending slides were also nice.
Unfortunately, the list of stuff I didn't like is quite a bit longer. I personally don't enjoy the setting at all, it feels like an unfocused kitchen sink of literally everything with little thought put into how places and characters relate to each other, just throw a bunch of cool stuff in there and call it a setting. While Planescape is a crazy setting, everything is there for a reason, symbolic or otherwise, the setting feels lived in and bigger than the scope of the Nameless One's (considerable) escapades.
I generally have a strong dislike for any "morality systems" and the tides affinity was no different. If your game is up to snuff, your character's actions should speak for themselves, not be a sum numbers on a single axis or a magic 5-pointed star. The actual "power of tides" in the game was a very vague McGuffin that was done better in PS:T, KOTOR 2 and MotB.
What does one life matter? Not much apparently, castoffs were dime a dozen, dying left right and center with little or no consequence. I'm still not sure why the Changing God didn't make sure to kill any previous bodies or why they sprouted consciousnesses in the first place, seems like a pretty big problem, Sorrow or no.
All the not-so-subtle callbacks to PS:T got really annoying after a while. I can live with a few nods and winks, but basically the whole structure is the same, the immortality, force-of-nature thing stalking you, getting memory flashes at convenient times and being the cause of most of the plot in the first place.
PS:T's story gave you agency, let you make your own discoveries(or not) and in the end let you accept your fate. This felt like all your choices were made for you, you were running around at someone else's whim until the Sorrow decided to be a nice dude and let you choose whatever you want to do in the end.
Lastly, the companions as a whole were quite a disappointment. They were barely involved in the story, had at best a single quest and a few things to talk about, not to mention being exclusively boring humans (considering the possibilities presented even in game as it is now). Even poor Nordom alone had more interaction than any companion here. I do admit that having to choose between giving Erritis his old life back and keeping my one way of dealing with combat-focused Crises was a tough choice.
Yea this seems like an improvement. Not ideal per se but controlling crpgs with a controller rarely is. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Knowing this now I'll be buying the title sometime in the near future. Cheers!
There is too much bitterness here to really trust that as a sincere review.
I mostly agree with it, the sound and level design stuff gets a bit nitpicky.
Honestly, looking back at the RPS's "PST fan" review, this gets much closer to the substance.
His Majesty
Banned
There are a lot of valid complaints in the review and it goes much more in depth than traditional outlets. The game is really easy, crises are a chore to manage, dull companions (outside of two) and the sound & level design is subpar for what you would expect from a title like this.
I am enjoying my time with the game but so far it's a long way from the product that was proposed in the original Kickstarter pitch.
I have only played the first 1/3 of the game, but I generally agree with most of it too.
I just think that the review does not give the game any due for some of its better aspects. If you rip out the combat and half of the companions, this is a pretty good--if incredibly janky--game.
It may be a tad negative and it glosses over the good aspects (Mostly the Bloom, really), but I don't think it's particular wrong.
It says a lot of true things, especially regarding the map design and some pretty bizarre interface problems that I don't even encounter in BG2 or Planescape when I replay them. (Good luck getting an enemy drop that falls behind an NPC in some maps <_>)
Yep.
They did the same thing with PoE, where it ended up one step below Bethesda jank.
Would be interesting to hear what you think when you've completed it. I would be much more forgiving for general janky-ness if I thought the main story was worth it, see MotB for a good example.
nope, never got any more information about them. I would like to hear about it
finished the game, was a little less enthusiatic about the second half. Some criticism:
Sagus Cliff was easily the best part for me, particularly Cliff's Edge was my favorite area in the game and had some of the best conversations
(meeting Erritis and Rhin, and the Fifth Eye)
Inifire
don't have to say much about the combat systems except that I think it's completely awful. I never attacked an enemy even once, but the alternative win conditions aren't any good either. Having my party go around and resolve some mindless skill checks isn't fun, well not for me at least. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't like any kind of skill checks anyway, never did - what's so great about auto-resolving conversations and non-combat situations based on your stats/skills/abilities? - but seemingly all CRPGs still insist on having them. I have failed maybe 2-3 inconsequential skill checks in total, and I didn't cheat by reloading saves. It's just a very underdeveloped system
leveling isn't done well, I never quite figured out what the advantage of having 29 intelligence is for example, after tier 2 I ran out of useful abilities to pick, since I didn't ever use combat abilities
never actually used any cyphers aside from the permanent stat boosts
companions -
imo, three of the six companions didn't belong in a Torment game, well I haven't completed Callistege's quest or even really talked to her after entering the Circus so maybe she has more hidden depth. Aligern and Tybir are both unexciting companions with a pretty unevenful backstory and personal quest, Matkina is sort of a borderline case - not really all that interesting either but at least she often inserted herself into conversations, and the castoff background made her more relevant
I quite liked Erritis and Rhin (like most everyone else here), but their quest conclusions still felt unstatisfying. Rhin in particular, she started off as a compelling character of mysterious origin, but in the end it turned out she was right all along and was just teleported to the Ninth World by accident, which could be fixed in a minute - uh, okay. At least adult Rhin was a nice little surprise
In general, I'd have liked a lot more conversations with them. All their dialogues were front-loaded, after exhausting their inital converation trees there was rarely ever anything new to talk about
I quite liked Erritis and Rhin (like most everyone else here), but their quest conclusions still felt unstatisfying. Rhin in particular, she started off as a compelling character of mysterious origin, but in the end it turned out she was right all along and was just teleported to the Ninth World by accident, which could be fixed in a minute - uh, okay. At least adult Rhin was a nice little surprise
In general, I'd have liked a lot more conversations with them. All their dialogues were front-loaded, after exhausting their inital converation trees there was rarely ever anything new to talk about
story -
I thought the last castoff/god of change/time distortion/consciousness angle was quite intriguing, but I didn't care at all about the first castoff, most of the other castoffs, the eternal war or the sorrow. The final confrontation with the god of change and the sorrow felt short and less dramatic than your conversation with Inifire
all in all, I think Tides of Numenera is a fine if deeply flawed game. Not a must-play by any means, it doesn't really touch the original Torment either, but it was an enjoyable experience nonetheless
oh, and the ending I picked -
I destroyed the sorrow, of course. Aside from a few thousand people going mad it didn't seem to have much of an impact, anyway. Everyone I've met still seemed mostly alright and I'm remembered as a great thinker and healer who set out to fix the damage I've caused. My reasoning for this decision was the that sorrow and the civilization that created it had no right to stop progress and keep humanity from reaching it's full potential, also I didn't want to erase my own existence