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[Onemic]

It finally happened. Can our southern neighbors please do the same?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/james-forcillo-sentencing-1.3698183

Toronto police Const. James Forcillo will be sentenced to at least five years in prison for the attempted murder of Sammy Yatim, the 18-year-old shot dead aboard a streetcar in July 2013.

Ontario Superior Court Justice Edward Then opened sentencing Thursday by saying he has no choice but to sentence Forcillo to at least the five-year minimum sentence for attempted murder.

The decision will effectively reject Forcillo's constitutional challenge of the mandatory five-year minimum for attempted murder. His lawyers had argued the minimum should not apply to a police officer on duty.

Previously reported on this story:

Last January, a jury acquitted Forcillo of second-degree murder, but he was convicted of attempted murder for continuing to shoot at Yatim while the teenager was lying on the floor of an empty streetcar in July 2013. Police were called after it was reported Yatim had exposed himself to women on the streetcar and drew a switchblade, which Forcillo repeatedly asked him to drop.

James Forcillo guilty of attempted murder in streetcar shooting of Sammy Yatim
​Forcillo attempted murder verdict explained
Justice Then will decide whether Forcillo should be subject to the mandatory minimum five-year sentence for attempted murder, but his lawyers argue the penalty is unconstitutional and should not apply to an officer on duty.

"What the judge needs to recognize is that in order to maintain our confidence in the police, is that when they run afoul of the law, when they break the law and when they commit serious crimes, they are going to be treated harshly just like anybody else would," said criminal defence lawyer Daniel Brown in an interview with CBC's Metro Morning.

"Regardless of whether you're a police officer or an average citizen, when you commit that kind of significant crime, it deserves a significant punishment," said Brown, who's not directly involved in the Forcillo case, but was asked to comment on it.

Forcillo's defence team is asking the court for a sentence of house arrest. The Crown is seeking eight to 10 years in prison.

CBC's Michelle Cheung is covering the sentencing hearing. Follow this blog for her up-to-the minute updates.

 

[Testicular Sound Express]

link please

 

[McDougles]

Charging the officer with both murder and attempted murder was a brilliant legal move that made this possible.

 

[Onemic]

link please

done

 

[23qwerty]

still don't understand how you can kill someone and get attempted murder

 

[McDougles]

still don't understand how you can kill someone and get attempted murder

Yatim and a police officer were on board a street car, with the officer near the front door. The police officer requested Yatim to drop the knife. After repeated denials of the request and as he approached the officer, the officer shot Yatim an excessive amount of times.

The jury found that the use of lethal force was deemed necessary to stop Yatim, but because he shot him numerous times after he was already incapacitated, he was attempting to murder him after the fact as opposed to using appropriate force.

 

[TheStruggler]

Yatim and a police officer were on board a street car, with the officer near the front door. The police officer requested Yatim to drop the knife. After repeated denials of the request and as he approached the officer, the officer shot Yatim an excessive amount of times.

The jury found that the use of lethal force was deemed necessary to stop Yatim, but because he shot him numerous times after he was already incapacitated, he was attempting to murder him after the fact as opposed to using appropriate force.

yep one would have done it but he shot multiple times

 

[shadowkat]

Good. I'm not exactly sure how the minimum sentence would be unconstitutional just because he's an officer.

 

[daemonic]

I thought the case had been settled recently and Forcillo was cleared of the charges. Honestly the video evidence is just too damning and compelling to ignore.

 

[gutter_trash]

still don't understand how you can kill someone and get attempted murder

it's better than nothing,

Stephen Harper's minimum prison sentence laws is having an affect on this cop's sentence.

If it wasn't for the former Conservative government's hard line stance on sentencing, this cop would have gotten a lighter sentence

I'm pretty sure that is not what Harper had in mind when it came to cops being on the defendant's bench. But eh, it's the law of the land now

 

[iBeleaf]

Good. Only took 3 years

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Oh, Canada.

 

[daemonic]

still don't understand how you can kill someone and get attempted murder

Police get exempted from this if they deem someone to be dangerous or a threat or a threat to the general public. Of course that judgement is completely subjective and open to interpretation. In this case, there was video evidence, which clearly hurt the officer's case.

 

[Hycran]

Good. I'm not exactly sure how the minimum sentence would be unconstitutional just because he's an officer.

The lawyers were trying to delineate as the officer used a handgun to do the killing and the use of a handgun in an offence of this nature applies equally to cops and civilians. They argued that it was never the intent of parliament for this to apply across the board

 

[diaspora]

I don't think the court took issue with shooting Yatim in general but the degree to which he took it was fucking ridiculous.

 

[The Jackdog]

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE POLICE! Finally!

....in canada

 

[Ashby]

yep one would have done it but he shot multiple times

Wait, he shot him while he was on the ground incapacitated, right? Not that he shot the guy multiple times as the guy approached him with the knife? Cause the latter sounds justifiable.

 

[Kinitari]

Wait, he shot him while he was on the ground incapacitated, right? Not that he shot the guy multiple times as the guy approached him with the knife? Cause the latter sounds justifiable.

Both happened.

A guy with a knife approached the officer, after the officer told him to repeatedly drop it. The officer fired - up to this point, The jury felt that those actions were reasonable for a police officer in that position. However, after the first shot, the guy fell to the ground, and the officer continued firing. I think the first shot is what killed Sammy, but the excessiveness of the next (5?) are what the officer is being sentenced for.

 

[Ashby]

Both happened.

A guy with a knife approached the officer, after the officer told him to repeatedly drop it. The officer fired - up to this point, The jury felt that those actions were reasonable for a police officer in that position. However, after the first shot, the guy fell to the ground, and the officer continued firing. I think the first shot is what killed Sammy, but the excessiveness of the next (5?) are what the officer is being sentenced for.

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

 

[Oppo]

I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives.

I do. I mean, guy went down after 1 shot. How about this: don't plug away at prone suspects?

The idea is to disable them, after all.

 

[FreedomFighter]

An officer of the law gets held accountable? What madness is this?

Not used to seeing this viewing from other side of the border.

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

Good. Only took 3 years

Yeah, I almost forgot about it till I was reading the National Post (online).

 

[Sch1sm]

Freakin' good. Only time anyone's gonna like the Harper Government, right here.

 

[shadowkat]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

I really don't think this will set a bad precedent. The guy went down after one shot - the next volley was deemed unnecessary.

An officer of the law gets held accountable? What madness is this?

Not used to seeing this viewing from other side of the border.

It's pretty rare here too.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops firing multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Glad that this situation was not that case.

There were two "volleys." The first volley dropped Yatim, then 5 seconds later launched a second volley.

Forcillo claimed he shot again because Yatim sat up, but video and forensic evidence disputed that. Yatim had been paralyzed by the first volley hitting his spine, so the coroner concluded that there was no way for Yatim to reach a threatening posture.

Plus, if you watch the tape, Yatim is in an empty streetcar, and Forcillo fires into the streetcar, despite having ample room behind him to withdraw. Basically, Forcillo put himself in danger by not engaging from a safe distance. Also there were several other officers on the scene and Forcillo was the only one that shot (although another officer tased Yatim after the second volley).

 

[Kinitari]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

I can appreciate the position, and I think it's important to judge these situations case by case. If an officer shot a man approaching with a weapon multiple times because he was still charging, then I doubt a jury would convict him. With the video here, it was clear the officer panicked and recklessly fired without actually following procedure.

I don't want cop's taking unnecessary risks either, but I don't think that's what will happen from now on because of this. These situations are rare enough in the country as it is, so we can afford to consider then each carefully.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

Get the fuck out of here

There is no explanation to continue shooting someone who's already down.

 

[Bad_Boy]

If only america would do the same.

 

[spookyfish]

Good. I'm not exactly sure how the minimum sentence would be unconstitutional just because he's an officer.

What the hell, man??? You don't back the blue??

/s

Abuse of deadly force should require higher sentences for officers.

 

[Otnopolit]

ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE POLICE! Finally!

....in canada

.

At least it's happening somewhere I suppose...

 

[Zombie James]

https://twitter.com/shelleycarroll/status/758685697368817666

Six years.

 

[Onemic]

https://twitter.com/shelleycarroll/status/758685697368817666

Six years.

Justice was served

 

[Ashby]

I can appreciate the position, and I think it's important to judge these situations case by case. If an officer shot a man approaching with a weapon multiple times because he was still charging, then I doubt a jury would convict him. With the video here, it was clear the officer panicked and recklessly fired without actually following procedure.

I don't want cop's taking unnecessary risks either, but I don't think that's what will happen from now on because of this. These situations are rare enough in the country as it is, so we can afford to consider then each carefully.

Yeah, I said as much in the post you're responding to but if I wasn't clear enough I definitely agree that this *won't* set a bad precedent because this was clearly excessive.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

So, police being less trigger happy and feeling the actual weight of responsibility each bullet they fire carries is a bad thing?

 

[wachie]

Glad this idiot is behind bars. Rot in jail.

 

[gutter_trash]

Good. I'm not exactly sure how the minimum sentence would be unconstitutional just because he's an officer.

due to stupid Provinces, they pressured to add a Non-withstanding Clause into the Constitution in 1982 which renders is it weaker than the US constitution.

 

[daemonic]

Get the fuck out of here

There is no explanation to continue shooting someone who's already down.

Other than the adrenaline rush of being caught up in the moment and perhaps an implicit reassurance that there would be no consequences to his actions.

 

[frontovik]

I don't see how Forcillo can downplay brazen murder when he and other officers had the site on lockdown, and he thought it was prudent to fire not one, but several rounds into Yatim.

The sentence is appropriate.

 

[krae_man]

Yeah, that's certainly beyond the pale. I do not however like the idea of setting precedent that will lead to cops being afraid to fire multiple shots because that's a good way of endangering cops' lives. It isn't rare at all for one shot not to be enough to stop a charging assailant. Of course that's hypothetical because that was apparently not the situation here.

Didn't it kind of help him in this case since they couldn't conclusively determine which bullet was the fatal one?

 

[commedieu]

You guys need vfx up there right..?

 

[LiK]

at least his career is over.

 

[Apathy]

If the officer really felt threatened enough to fire, one shot would have been sufficient to drop the kid. The fact he went overboard is why he's going to jail.

Sometimes force has to be used if the life of the officer or the life of bystanders are threatened but that does not mean that excessive force is allowed.

 

[daemonic]

I fail to understand why tazing wasn't an option here. Not to mention, this took place on a streetcar with all passengers vacated. Are there no other ways to subdue someone other than shooting them? Did he call for backup? Could he have countered with a baton?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I fail to understand why tazing wasn't an option here. Not to mention, this took place on a streetcar with all passengers vacated. Are there no other ways to subdue someone other than shooting them? Did he call for backup? Could he have countered with a baton?

The teen was tased after being shot iirc

 

[Kinitari]

I fail to understand why tazing wasn't an option here. Not to mention, this took place on a streetcar with all passengers vacated. Are there no other ways to subdue someone other than shooting them? Did he call for backup? Could he have countered with a baton?

Generally tasing is not something you try if you feel there is a reasonable and immediate threat to your life - the same with trying to counter this potentially lethal attack. Tasing can fail, your counter can fail.

The problem with what this officer did was, beyond excessive shooting, putting himself in a position where his life was unnecessarily in danger. He didn't have to be where he was.

 

[darscot]

I really like the extra year, I thought they would give him the min. The prosecution was masterful in this case and I think justice was served. He will never be in a position of authority again and the sentence is not so punitive that the guy can't start over. It is really impressive how the law was applied here, there were so many potential loopholes that could have let this guy walk. They proved that the law can be applied the same to any individual.

 

[Onemic]

The teen was tased after being shot iirc

Yup. Shot once and the kid fell, then shot multiple times when on the floor, and after was tazed.

 

[Jenenser]

The idea is to disable them, after all.

if you wanna disable them, you dont use a lethal weapon in the first place.

 

[Divvy]

I fail to understand why tazing wasn't an option here. Not to mention, this took place on a streetcar with all passengers vacated. Are there no other ways to subdue someone other than shooting them? Did he call for backup? Could he have countered with a baton?

The officer didn't have a taser. Only supervisors carry tasers in Toronto for some reason. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Biff]

I'm generally pro-police, but in this case I agree with the attempted murder charge and verdict.

What I disagree with, however, is the extra year. Five years in prison for a police officer is not the same as five years for a regular citizen.

He will be under constant threat from the other inmates. He will either have to stay in protective custody (i.e solitary, which will cause irreparable mental duress over five years) or roll the dice in gen pop and either: a) survive, but under the constant threat of harm, thereby causing extreme mental duress; or b) get killed or badly injured by another inmate simply because he is a cop.

Five years was enough. It got the point across. The extra year is unnecessary and does not serve a purpose in rehabilitation.