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Toronto Police Officer Sentenced to a Minimum 5 years in Prison For Killing of Teen
- Thread starter Onemic
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petran79
Banned
they could put him in a cell with inmates that have lighter crimes, eg money laundering, debts etc
Where I live some years ago and because our prisons are overcrowded, they put a guy who had debts in a cell with lifers (murderers etc) for a few days. He did suffer a lot once they figured him out...
Police should be held to a higher standard, so it balances out. He will serve 2 years before eligibility for parole and mandatory parole in 4. He tried to kill someone the punishment is completely acceptable, many would ask for more.
Oppo
Member
I don't see what that has to do with this. besides, Notwithstanding has only been tested 3 times, once successfully, and Quebec has arguably been paying for that ever since.
I think it's a fair sentence. One extra year is not overkill and it's unlikely that he'd serve the full six years.
thechristoph
Sir!
That's funny. I'm usually pretty distrustful of cops and think they need to be charged with their crimes far more severely than they currently are, but I see no crime here.
If you are brandishing a knife and I have reason to believe that I am in danger, if I had a gun on me I would dump every bullet I have to make sure that doesn't happen. I don't even support civilian gun ownership but if it's you or me, and I have a gun, it's going to be me and I'm going to shoot you until I can't shoot you no more.
I think the common reaction to the number of bullets officers shoot is stupid.
I'm glad you are not a police officer.
The number is less important than the delay between volleys, combined with the officer unnecessarily putting himself in a position that warranted the shooting in the first place. If you were the police officer, and you fired just one round at the person attacking you and they fell down, and you stopped shooting for seconds... Would you suddenly start shooting again at the prone target?
GrizzleBoy
Banned
What does that even mean?
If only he stopped in between gunshots to think about that as bullets tore through his victims flesh and bone.
If only he cared for better inmate treatment before he became one.
Poor officer.
I think this reaction is befitting of a civilian rather than an officer. He is a professional. His job is to ensure the safety of others, not to murder. Excessive violence must be avoided and he should be trained for that.
The number of shots was not really the issue. It's more the delay in between shots once Yatim was down.
so youd shoot a person, wait until hes incapacitated on the floor, and then fire the rest of your rounds into him while on the ground? Thank god you're not a police officer or else you'd be just like the scum that kill unarmed people without even thinking twice.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Agree with this in this case. Appropriate sentence. But why does Canada have mandatory minimums? If less serious crimes have that then I thought you were all too liberal for that kind of shit. Judges need discretion. Was it some Stephen Harper law or something?
We have had them for a long time Harper tried some bullshit with them but I think it was over thrown. I don't think we have them for everything. It's really not much of an issue.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
If less serious crimes don't have them then it's not that bad then. The UK doesn't have any mandatory minimums unless it's possession of a prohibited firearm where the minimum is 5 years, and even then the judge can decide not to go with the minimum if they decide that the circumstances don't warrant it. The problem with mandatory minimums is that it doesn't really take into account any individual's specific circumstances at all.
If I remember correctly Harper tried to make it a two year minimum to anyone selling drugs to someone under 18 and it got overthrown as unconstitutional.
NemesisHunter
Member
The police officer should not be getting special privileges because of his rank and status: that sends the wrong message to society that cops are above the law, even in prisons.
As it was pointed out in the article:
"Regardless of whether you're a police officer or an average citizen, when you commit that kind of significant crime, it deserves a significant punishment".
Yes, some of the changes he made were over thrown by the Supreme Court earlier this year.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-sentencing-mandatory-minumums-1.3537150
The problem wasn't shooting Yatim in the first place, the problem is that he started shooting after he was already down.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
It's not a privilege to ensure an inmate is safe in prison without being killed or beaten up. Neither of those things are the penalties courts hand out, and prison time is also supposed to make sure that an inmate can be a safe and law abiding citizen afterwards. Extrajudicial punishment serves neither of those causes. A civilian is eligible for the same treatment.
SolidChamp
Banned
Cops don't seem to understand that shooting someone in the legs will suffice.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Convicted for killing a guy with a knife, and in the US they won't even convict for killing someone unarmed.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
the Femoral Artery is in the leg, you shoot that blood will squirt and the person will be dead in 30-45 seconds. Police officers are trained to shoot the abdomen because its the most likely place where someone will survive a gunshot wound
SolidChamp
Banned
8-Bit Sunset
Banned
I'm guessing he won't be imprisoned with other inmates?
Otherwise they may as well paint a big red target on his back!
Otherwise they may as well paint a big red target on his back!
wat, no. The arm is the place where someone will most likely survive a gunshot wound.
I'm glad he got extra punishment. I was pretty worried after that G20 cop got off pretty much scott free.
This is the interior of a Toronto streetcar:
If the cop misses, that bullet is probably going to ricochet in some random direction. I'd rather they make sure they land the hit if they have to fire.
This is the interior of a Toronto streetcar:
If the cop misses, that bullet is probably going to ricochet in some random direction. I'd rather they make sure they land the hit if they have to fire.
killer rin
Member
Glad to see the police being held accountable
The "precedent".
Forcillo shot Yatim, Yatim fell to the floor.
The threat was over. Whether he was alive or dead.
Shortly after, Forcillo shot him six more times. Not knowing if he was alive or dead.
That was the problem.
In Grade 9 we had a cop address our class for an hour. When the police shoot, they shoot to kill. Period. It's considered last measure. (In Canada, at least.)
Cops shot to kill because is a last resort and they go for largest body mass to make sure they don't miss. With adrenaline pumping in a situation escalated high enough for an officer to draw their gun, they could easily miss someone's legs, specially of the suspect moves or dodges. Real life is different from tv.
Zombie James
Banned
If only there was some way to practice and prepare for situations like these. Like, some exercises potential police officers would have to learn before they're given a gun and uniform. What's the word I'm looking for...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/police-training-mental-illness-deaths-1.3699664
These are two separate issues. I agree and have argued on this forum that police do not get the training they require when dealing with individual with mental illness. I've worked with individuals that live with mental illness, in some cases severe mental illness, and I am well aware and an advocate for them and insist that police need better training.
I can also understand that policing is a risky job where the last resort in some extreme cases is use of force to protect civilians or the officers themselves from actual harm.
What I was discussing was in those extreme situations, going for a leg shot is impractical and potentially life threatening if the officer misses. Face it, the world isn't black and white and even with all the training in the world sometimes situations don't conform to training scenarios.
It's sad to say but in very extreme situations a police officer might have to use lethal force even if they gotten proper training to deal with people who have mental illness. If the evidence after the fact showed an officer doing everything possible before moment and not using excessive force like this one did, we as a society can't then keep vilifying the police. In this csse the lack of training plus the excessive nature is why he got the sentence he rightfully got.
Sqrt_minus_one
Member
This whole shooting in the legs thing has been brought up before when boogie(a Canadian cop) uses to post here he mentioned that cops are not trained to shoot in the legs they are trained to shoot at centre mass it reduces the chances of missing. If a suspect is charging don't miss. Secondly if you are going to draw your gun your life is in danger or someone else's life is in danger at this point all bets are off and if you shoot you shoot to kill.
If you want to incapacitate bring a Taser.
TL/DR: when cops are pulling the trigger they are trained to shoot to kill only.
That's the most absurd fucking thing- nobody ever is ever supposed to shoot for the legs.
Silent Chief
Member
I guess you're talking about the notwithstanding clause of the Charter of Rights and Freedom. The charter was added to the constitution in 82. I don't know what you mean by weaker, but the constitution didn't have a charter before 82, so adding one with a notwithstanding clause cannot make it weaker in any way.
Alberta used the clause to delay gay marriage, Quebec uses it to protects it's language, Saskatchewan uses it to keep public servants from striking.
No uses related to criminal law exists.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I am inclined to agree. I don't think the cop needs to necessarily be put up on charges for the initial shot (it does seem fairly logical that there was a feeling of threat)--but I'm not sure I like that use of force and escalation of force guidelines are set up to enable a suicide by cop scenario. I am surprised that there is not a less than lethal option that would be deployed first. Maybe there is and the officer departed from guidelines--again, I think that's probably reasonable on some level and I won't second guess the officer, but I think a lot of countries have crazy people with knives and we can look at many other countries for evidence that lethal force is used very sparingly without increased officer risk provided that officers are trained and guidelines are clear.
We maybe have different ideas as to what prison is supposed to be for. I don't think it's for 'eye for an eye' sorts of punitive measures.
Sapiens
Member
If you'd actually known your average Canadian cop, you'd prefer that they just aimed at the middle. These are good people, but not exactly olympic level marksmen.
The incident in question
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...atim-shooting/article26922407/?service=mobile
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...atim-shooting/article26922407/?service=mobile
DrunkShogun
Member
Canada making America look bad. Good job on them, not all police are bad but knowing there's consequences might scared the bad seed hopefully.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/forcillo-bail-hearing-day-2-1.3699764
Forcillo on bail, jail starts Nov. 9th.
Forcillo on bail, jail starts Nov. 9th.
I mean the alternative that happens 99% of the time is nothing or getting paid suspension/transferred.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
A brilliant legal move in terms of getting Forcillo charged no matter what, sure. But it isn't a logical move. If you take what attempted murder means from the criminal code, the Crown had to prove how the offender had the intent to kill but ultimately wasn't able to. In this context, splitting up the volleys and focusing on the delays of the shots doesn't really make any sense in an argument of "attempted murder" because the fact that Yatim is dead is ignored. This case basically throws out the legal definition of attempted being "an undertaking to do an act that entails more than mere preparation but does not result in the successful completion of the act."
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