Support NeoGAF

[Ripclawe]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&u=/nm/20040811/bs_nm/retail_toysrus_dc_18&printer=1

good, They ran Lionel Playworld out of business, ITS PAYBACK TIME YOU FUCKERS!

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I've been to ToysRus about 4 times in the past year, and everytime is it a ghost town..then again Im usually going at like 8pm. I hope they get a few more game deal sales in before they leave

 

[evil ways]

Good, toy wise they're a wasteland 80% of the time, and that shit they started pulling ever since 2 years ago by raising the prices on all games at least $6-$8 more, especially during the buy 2 get 1 free sales, is weak beyond words.

 

[jiggle]

Can't wait for their close-out sales on legos and videogames.

 

[ChrisReid]

This is kinda sad.. but the remodels really suck. Target's not so bad for toys.. but I can't stand the walmarts.

 

[SyNapSe]

Exactly what business would that leave them in?

 

[Ripclawe]

Exactly what business would that leave them in?

The Babies R us stores which are doing well.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Good, toy wise they're a wasteland 80% of the time, and that shit they started pulling ever since 2 years ago by raising the prices on all games at least $6-$8 more, especially during the buy 2 get 1 free sales, is weak beyond words.

I've worked through two of those and never seen that happen.
Granted our prices NEVER drop on time, our stock is shit, but I don't recall that.
That all said, even with my 10% discount, I can still get things cheaper elsewhere.

 

[DarienA]

And here I thought they would blame their own high prices....

 

[doncale]

I loved ToysRus back in 1989 into the early 1990s. but I HATED it when the TRU close to me got totally remodeled. then i quit going there. though recently, i bought F-ZERO GX at that same store. but TRU days are over.

I'ma internet kid now.

 

[OmniGamer]

I guess all of the Toys'R'Us Kids grew up and started going to Best Buy

 

[RevenantKioku]

I guess all of the Toys'R'Us Kids grew up and started going to Best Buy

When TRU employes go to BB and get better prices, well you know.
I need to get a better retail job.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

I dont wanna grow up ima toys 'r us kid.....



god some many nintendo related memories in the 80s for me there sad to see it go

 

[belgurdo]

I remember when TRU used to have good stock and reasonable prices back in the 80s and early 90s (it was the only place I ever knew besides Montgomery Ward and mom and pops that carried a full stock of Game Gear and Sega CD stuff that wasn't horribly overpriced, and was the only place I knew of that had Turbografx 16s on display), but now everything's overpriced to cover the cost of all that remodelling, and they never have anything good on their shelves (if you can find it, that is.) Weak

 

[Doth Togo]

I dont wanna grow up ima toys 'r us kid.....



god some many nintendo related memories in the 80s for me there sad to see it go

IAWTP.

 

[Slo]

Man, I remeber TRU used to be the only place in town where you could find TG-16 games. They always had the BEST selection of games anywhere. But yeah, they suck now.

 

[xsarien]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Wal*Mart any more...

 

[human5892]

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Wal*Mart any more...

Why? For forcing an over-priced, less-stocked competitor out of business?

It's not WalMart's fault that TRU couldn't get a clue when it came to pricing; even if you take WalMart out of the equation, virtually any store will give you a better price than Toys R' Us, usually with better selection and a less offensive atmosphere to boot.

 

[Vieo]

Walmart and Target are to blame. Let's look at the facts...

You go into Walmart, Kmart, or Target, you get good deals, cheaper prices, and practically anything you want can be purchased there. It would seem better to shop at these huge stores because who wants to go to Toys R' Us, get back in the car then drive over to Old Navy, get back in the car and drive down to the grocery store. It's a waste of gas and time.

There's just no competing with that. =/

 

[human5892]

Walmart and Target are to blame. Let's look at the facts...

You go into Walmart, Kmart, or Target, you get good deals, cheaper prices, and practically anything you want can be purchased there. It would seem better to shop at these huge stores because who wants to go to Toys R' Us, get back in the car then drive over to Old Navy, get back in the car and drive down to the grocery store. It's a waste of gas and time.

There's just no competing with that. =/

Grocery stores are still in business. Old Navy is still in business. WalMart sells the same wares as these stores, but yet they can co-exist because they offer bargains, more diverse product lines than WalMart, different store environments, etc.

Toys R' Us has failed because they did not remain competitive, not because they are a "victim" of some kind.

 

[levious]

The Babies R us stores which are doing well.

and Kids R Us, they're still around or no?

 

[Ripclawe]

nope, they shut those down.

 

[DarienA]

Wal-Mart continues to expand it's product line... I saw in a local Wal-Mart that they are now in the electronics section selling cell phones AND HDTV's.....

 

[levious]

nope, they shut those down.

did they expand Babies R Us to carry older kids clothes then?

 

[RevenantKioku]

did they expand Babies R Us to carry older kids clothes then?

Some TRUs, like mine, have KRUs inside of them.

 

[Slo]

Walmart does not completely replace the toy stores, electronic stores, hardware stores etc, but it does compete directly with them. These stores are either going to have to specialize, or try to compete on prices. If I'm looking for a screwdriver, a pair of underwear, and a gallon of milk I can probably get it all at Walmart. If I want to buy a new suit, an HDTV, and a tablesaw I'll be driving around to the specialty stores.

 

[Mrbob]

TRU is like a clearance toy superstore. Their whole store is usually on clearance.

 

[lordmrw]

Before I went to Toys R Us this past christmas for all the cheap games, I hadn't been in one since 1996. That's right, 96. That goes to show how useless they've become since then.

 

[Spectral Glider]

My Wal-Mart's toy selection blows beyond words and the shelves are always a scattered mess.

 

[Badabing]

Man, the last time I was in a Toys R' Us was when I got my Gamecube on launch day.

That will be a memory I will never forget.

 

[Belfast]

Yeah, when you were a kid, it was just like the commercials always said. You know, it was kind of like a wonderland of toys and videogames and crap. But ever since I grew out of that phase in the mid-90s, I can only see it as a big, empty, deserted warehouse. Its really sad.

 

[human5892]

Walmart does not completely replace the toy stores, electronic stores, hardware stores etc, but it does compete directly with them. These stores are either going to have to specialize, or try to compete on prices. If I'm looking for a screwdriver, a pair of underwear, and a gallon of milk I can probably get it all at Walmart. If I want to buy a new suit, an HDTV, and a tablesaw I'll be driving around to the specialty stores.

Very well said.

 

[atomsk]

"Analysts expect 100 to 200 toy stores will be closed."

close the Peoria branch and DIE

anyhow, my manager says that wall street is forcing us to seperate TRU and BRU because BRU has been carrying the company for about 5 years now...

everything else he called "media spin"

but he may just being saying that to prevent massive employee exodus

 

[OmniGamer]

No pics of Geoffrey with a big ol' "OWNED" slapped across it yet?

 

[xsarien]

Grocery stores are still in business. Old Navy is still in business. WalMart sells the same wares as these stores, but yet they can co-exist because they offer bargains, more diverse product lines than WalMart, different store environments, etc.

However, if memory serves, Wal*Mart has a penchant for using toys as a loss leader. There's making sure you stay competitive and not actively putting yourself out of business.

 

[human5892]

However, if memory serves, Wal*Mart has a penchant for using toys as a loss leader. There's making sure you stay competitive and not actively putting yourself out of business.

Even if that is true, Toys R' Us' prices (particularly on videogames) are still overinflated compared to non WalMart stores, as I said earlier. They also could've bolstered their toy lineup in order to make their store more of a "specialty" place for higher-quality or more scarce toys, as Slo was saying in regards to other competitors of WalMart.

I might feel bad for Toys R' Us if WalMart offered a gigantic line-up of toys and then sold them at a loss (while Toys R' Us was selling them for reasonable or even bargain amounts and also stocking their own humongous line-up), but that's just not how things went.

 

[xsarien]

Even if that is true, Toys R' Us' prices (particularly on videogames) are still overinflated compared to non WalMart stores, as I said earlier. They also could've bolstered their toy lineup in order to make their store more of a "specialty" place for higher-quality or more scarce toys

Because that worked so well for FAO Schwarz. The problem with toys and Wal*Mart is two-fold:

1) They undercut prices, so chains and independent stores that specialize in these things can't possibly compete on the same level without going bankrupt.

2) Wal*Mart, as a large purchaser, makes sure the manufacturers know it. Toy companies are having huge issues keeping up with Wal*Mart's demands of keeping prices low, so they, in turn, can make a profit in their stores. This results in lower quality toys for everyone, just to keep Wal*Mart happy.

(And fuck if I've ever seen video game prices deviate between stores excluding clearance sales, something, yes, even TRU does on occasion in their VG section.)

 

[human5892]

Because that worked so well for FAO Schwarz.

You can't compare the two. FAO Schwarz did not have nearly the same store coverage and brand recognition.

The problem with toys and Wal*Mart is two-fold:

1) They undercut prices, so chains and independent stores that specialize in these things can't possibly compete on the same level without going bankrupt.

Again, how does this explain the hundreds of stores -- both chain and mom-and-pop -- that still continue to exist in the face of WalMart? In my town alone, a farmer's market and a WalMart coexist, despite the fact that many believed the WalMart would kill it. Instead, by offering unique products and fair prices that appealed to existing clientele as well as those who couldn't find what they needed at WalMart, the farmer's market maintains tremendous business.

2) Wal*Mart, as a large purchaser, makes sure the manufacturers know it. Toy companies are having huge issues keeping up with Wal*Mart's demands of keeping prices low, so they, in turn, can make a profit in their stores. This results in lower quality toys for everyone, just to keep Wal*Mart happy.

I have never seen any conclusive evidence that modern toys are of a lower quality because of WalMart.

(And fuck if I've ever seen video game prices deviate between stores excluding clearance sales, something, yes, even TRU does on occasion in their VG section.)

I remember in the N64 days, carts at Toys R' Us were often priced higher than even at traditional videogame stores; I bought Mario 64 somewhere else because TRU was asking too much for it.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Because that worked so well for FAO Schwarz.

What do Toys R Us and FAO Schwartz have in common? This man:

John Eyler, the former CEO of FAO and the current CEO of Toys R Us. In a brilliant move, TRU put this guy in charge 4 years ago to make the company more competitive.

Really, Wal-Mart can't be blamed every time a poorly run company faces financial trouble.

 

[xsarien]

Again, how does this explain the hundreds of stores -- both chain and mom-and-pop -- that still continue to exist in the face of WalMart? In my town alone, a farmer's market and a WalMart coexist, despite the fact that many believed the WalMart would kill it. Instead, by offering unique products and fair prices that appealed to existing clientele as well as those who couldn't find what they needed at WalMart, the farmer's market maintains tremendous business.

There's plenty of evidence, both empirical and anecdotal, that Wal*Mart is nothing but a scourge on local, small businesses. On average, they simply can't compete and close up shop leaving Wal*Mart the only store in town.

I have never seen any conclusive evidence that modern toys are of a lower quality because of WalMart.

Then perhaps you'll be OK with a story about Wal*Mart, pickles, and the pickles they place companies in:
http://www.corsinet.com/textfiles/122403walmart.txt

I remember in the N64 days, carts at Toys R' Us were often priced higher than even at traditional videogame stores; I bought Mario 64 somewhere else because TRU was asking too much for it.

Have you set foot in one since? The prices are pretty much in line with everybody else.

 

[human5892]

There's plenty of evidence, both empirical and anecdotal, that Wal*Mart is nothing but a scourge on local, small businesses. On average, they simply can't compete and close up shop leaving Wal*Mart the only store in town.

I disagree, if only because of the plainly-visible evidence of thousands of other stores across the nation maintaining their profits with WalMart around. Isn't it conceviable that a store goes out of business in the face of WalMart because of mismanagement, over-pricing (something extremely common at mom-and-pop stores, BTW), or otherwise simply not reacting well to competition?

Then perhaps you'll be OK with a story about Wal*Mart, pickles, and the pickles they place companies in:
http://www.corsinet.com/textfiles/122403walmart.txt

That is undoubtedly disconcerting for some manufacturers, like Vlasic. But it doesn't mean that all products will suffer a degradation of quality. It also doesn't mean that WalMart's effect is strictly negative; that very same article admits, "There is no question that Wal-Mart's relentless drive to squeeze out costs has benefited consumers. The giant retailer is at least partly responsible for the low rate of U.S. inflation, and a McKinsey & Co. study concluded that about 12% of the economy's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s could be traced to Wal-Mart alone."

Have you set foot in one since? The prices are pretty much in line with everybody else.

I have, and have noticed prices ranging from the standard to the over-the-top.

 

[xsarien]

I disagree, if only because of the plainly-visible evidence of thousands of other stores across the nation maintaining their profits with WalMart around. Isn't it conceviable that a store goes out of business in the face of WalMart because of mismanagement, over-pricing (something extremely common at mom-and-pop stores, BTW), or otherwise simply not reacting well to competition?

If a mom and pop store is charging "more," it's likely because they don't have a choice in the matter. It's not about greed, it's about keeping themselves in the black. If they can only afford to order X amounts of whatever, they'll get a certain price from the manufacturer. The more they order, the less they have to pay. But that has to be mitigated by what they think they'll realistically sell. And if a Wal*Mart moves into town, they don't stand a chance in hell. People will go to the place where they can get the lowest price possible without even thinking about the longer-term economic consequences.

That is undoubtedly disconcerting for some manufacturers, like Vlasic. But it doesn't mean that all products will suffer a degradation of quality. It also doesn't mean that WalMart's effect is strictly negative; that very same article admits, "There is no question that Wal-Mart's relentless drive to squeeze out costs has benefited consumers. The giant retailer is at least partly responsible for the low rate of U.S. inflation, and a McKinsey & Co. study concluded that about 12% of the economy's productivity gains in the second half of the 1990s could be traced to Wal-Mart alone."

You skipped the part about how "we're shopping ourselves out of our jobs," (pardon the paraphrasing, I just closed the tab.) Wal*Mart's super-low prices are the economic equivalent of fast food.

I have, and have noticed prices ranging from the standard to the over-the-top.

What kind of bizarro TRU are you visiting? I've never seen them go over MSRP on anything.

 

[border]

TRU's game prices are pretty much in line with EB or Gamestop or any other specialty store. Why the complaints? Let's get specific....what are they "overcharging" for? I don't think I've ever seen them sell a game for more than $50. They are slow to drop price, but so is everyone else (excluding Best Buy/Circuit City).

I don't know how much they can blame Wal-Mart, though that store definitely does a lot of damage to their small-scale competitors.

I disagree, if only because of the plainly-visible evidence of thousands of other stores across the nation maintaining their profits with WalMart around

What evidence? Which stores? Keep in mind that you say they are "maintaining their profits", not just staying in business with diminishing returns. Wal-Mart isn't the only cause of small-business troubles, but to say that they're not a major factor is a little silly. They're gigantic, and can undercut and outbleed pretty much anyone.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

What kind of bizarro TRU are you visiting? I've never seen them go over MSRP on anything.

TRU generally doesn't go over MSRP on videogames, but they do on most everything else in the store. Altough even videogames can get the higher priced treatment. I remember last year when we always priced Nintendo's GBA games at $34.99. That was the MSRP, but nearly everyone else priced them at $29.99.

Even if TRU matched Wal-Mart's prices dollar for dollar, it still wouldn't mean shit. TRU is a specialty retailer, and specialty retailers have to offer something that their competition doesn't to get them in the store. Better selection, hot items always in stock, great customer service, a cool atmosphere, etc. TRU failed in this regard spectacularly.

 

[human5892]

If a mom and pop store is charging "more," it's likely because they don't have a choice in the matter. It's not about greed, it's about keeping themselves in the black. If they can only afford to order X amounts of whatever, they'll get a certain price from the manufacturer. The more they order, the less they have to pay. But that has to be mitigated by what they think they'll realistically sell.

No offense, but you seem to be diluting your arguments with the same broad generalization: that mom-and-pop stores are the "good guys", and are only trying to make a little profit in this crazy corporate world. In reality, there are plenty out there who are guilty of ridiculous price gauging, especially when they're the only game in town. The small town I grew up in is a perfect example of this; with only one store to buy paint in, the owner can charge pretty much whatever he wants, because unless you want to drive 20 minutes to a bigger town (doesn't sound like much, but some people are lazy and others -- especially in this town -- are old and don't like to drive much) you can't get it anywhere else. For stores like this, a little WalMart -- or any competition -- is just what the doctor ordered.

And if a Wal*Mart moves into town, they don't stand a chance in hell. People will go to the place where they can get the lowest price possible without even thinking about the longer-term economic consequences.

Again, you're ignoring the countless examples of stores that thrive in towns where WalMarts exist.

You skipped the part about how "we're shopping ourselves out of our jobs," (pardon the paraphrasing, I just closed the tab.) Wal*Mart's super-low prices are the economic equivalent of fast food.

I admit I did skim the article and didn't catch that part. That is a cause for concern. However, that does not give you or anyone else license to blame WalMart whenever a rival store shuts down.

What kind of bizarro TRU are you visiting? I've never seen them go over MSRP on anything.

Heh, I don't know. I live in PA, if that helps.

 

[human5892]

What evidence? Which stores? Keep in mind that you say they are "maintaining their profits", not just staying in business with diminishing returns. Wal-Mart isn't the only cause of small-business troubles, but to say that they're not a major factor is a little silly. They're gigantic, and can undercut and outbleed pretty much anyone.

Every store in the nation that's not on the brink of bankruptcy! There's been a WalMart in my town for years and years now, and there are still plenty of successful grocery stores, shoe stores, clothing stores, and a big farmer's market. There's your evidence. The way some people talk, you'd think everytime a WalMart went up their competition would completely die and the town would rely on the WalMart for all of their needs. In reality, for many places, it's just competition as usual.

Of course WalMart is going to be a factor in putting the squeeze on small businesses. But it's completely unreasonable to say that they're being forced out of business because of big old mean WalMart, and absolve the business of any liability for their own mistakes.

TRU generally doesn't go over MSRP on videogames, but they do on most everything else in the store. Altough even videogames can get the higher priced treatment. I remember last year when we always priced Nintendo's GBA games at $34.99. That was the MSRP, but nearly everyone else priced them at $29.99.

Even if TRU matched Wal-Mart's prices dollar for dollar, it still wouldn't mean shit. TRU is a specialty retailer, and specialty retailers have to offer something that their competition doesn't to get them in the store. Better selection, hot items always in stock, great customer service, a cool atmosphere, etc. TRU failed in this regard spectacularly.

This is exactly what I mean when I say overpriced games, and TRU's failures.

 

[border]

Every store in the nation that's not on the brink of bankruptcy! There's been a WalMart in my town for years and years now, and there are still plenty of successful grocery stores, shoe stores, clothing stores, and a big farmer's market.

So basically because a store isn't going out of business, that means they are thriving and "successful"? Huh? You said that they're maintaining profits, but you really have no idea. Things could still be getting progressively worse, with margins getting smaller and less-and-less profit year over year. Pull out the balance sheets and let's see how they are actually doing.

Wal-Mart won't have much of an effect on high-end specialty stores (shoes, clothes, etc), but they'll certainly eat away at things like groceries, electronics, sporting goods, etc.

I don't think that small stores are necessarily good guys, but certainly not every store closing is a result of "their own mistakes". In some cases it is just becoming impossible to compete, for better or worse.

 

[human5892]

So basically because a store isn't going out of business, that means they are thriving and "successful"? Huh? You said that they're maintaining profits, but you really have no idea. Things could still be getting progressively worse, with margins getting smaller and less-and-less profit year over year. Pull out the balance sheets and let's see how they are actually doing.

Wal-Mart won't have much of an effect on high-end specialty stores (shoes, clothes, etc), but they'll certainly eat away at things like groceries, electronics, sporting goods, etc.

I don't think that small stores are necessarily good guys, but certainly not every store closing is a result of "their own mistakes". In some cases it is just becoming impossible to compete, for better or worse.

Well, I threw in the fact that the WalMart has been around for years and years to illustrate that the stores can't be doing that bad (the town even manages to support three grocery stores along with the WalMart). Many of them also routinely have packed parking lots and are crowded on the inside, too.

But really, it seems like we more or less agree -- in some cases, WalMart's super-low (yes, maybe even unfairly low) prices are to blame, and in others, small stores mismanage themselves to death, or just aren't used to competition.

 

[xsarien]

TRU generally doesn't go over MSRP on videogames, but they do on most everything else in the store. Altough even videogames can get the higher priced treatment. I remember last year when we always priced Nintendo's GBA games at $34.99. That was the MSRP, but nearly everyone else priced them at $29.99.

Even if TRU matched Wal-Mart's prices dollar for dollar, it still wouldn't mean shit. TRU is a specialty retailer, and specialty retailers have to offer something that their competition doesn't to get them in the store. Better selection, hot items always in stock, great customer service, a cool atmosphere, etc. TRU failed in this regard spectacularly.

Because if there's one thing Wal*Mart's known for, it's great customer service and a "cool" atmosphere. The only ones I've ever been in have been certifiable disaster areas, staffed by people who could not give less of a shit, and had shelves and shelves of crap that I assumed was cheap for a reason, and out of stock of the name-brand stuff.

And don't even get me started on their preaching about pornography.

Every store in the nation that's not on the brink of bankruptcy! There's been a WalMart in my town for years and years now, and there are still plenty of successful grocery stores, shoe stores, clothing stores, and a big farmer's market. There's your evidence. The way some people talk, you'd think everytime a WalMart went up their competition would completely die and the town would rely on the WalMart for all of their needs. In reality, for many places, it's just competition as usual.

Of course WalMart is going to be a factor in putting the squeeze on small businesses. But it's completely unreasonable to say that they're being forced out of business because of big old mean WalMart, and absolve the business of any liability for their own mistakes.



This is exactly what I mean when I say overpriced games, and TRU's failures.

So your one PA town is evidence enough that Wal*Mart isn't the giant wrecking ball everyone from small entrepreneurs to the State of California claims it to be? Even going by pure anecdotal evidence, you're outnumbered, dude.

And you need to learn to shop around. TRU isn't the only one to peg, say, GBA games at the $34 price point. I've seen it in Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, even the token EB. But Wal*Mart inflicted the most damage on TRU where it matters most, the toys. It's hard to go up against a competitor willing to take a loss on your core product, just ask Sony and Nintendo what they think of the XBox.

 

[human5892]

So your one PA town is evidence enough that Wal*Mart isn't the giant wrecking ball everyone from small entrepreneurs to the State of California claims it to be? Even going by pure anecdotal evidence, you're outnumbered, dude.

No, it isn't. But the thousands of other towns that exist with other stores and WalMarts are.

And you need to learn to shop around. TRU isn't the only one to peg, say, GBA games at the $34 price point. I've seen it in Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, even the token EB. But Wal*Mart inflicted the most damage on TRU where it matters most, the toys. It's hard to go up against a competitor willing to take a loss on your core product, just ask Sony and Nintendo what they think of the XBox.

In my experience, the Toys 'R Us has been generally overpriced -- why do you think I do know to shop around?