Support NeoGAF

[AtomicShroom]

"We dropped these two huge bombs, the best bombs. I mean let's give it up for the bombs. We dropped them on the imperial Japanese, nasty guys I mean really nasty..."

Ahahahahah! I'm already in tears! :')

 

[Heisenberg]

Only realized the visit was today after seeing posts from the usual suspects on Facebook with articles saying "of course the Obama administration lied about this not being an apology visit".

 

[hoos30]

Americans, make sure that someone as good as this man enters office after him.

Errr....

 

[freethoughtbubble]

The United States has nothing to apologize for.

Bombing Japan was an act of war. The rape of Nanking was an atrocity.

Despite your misguided beliefs, the dropping of the atomic bombs concluded the war with finality and ensured a lasting peace would prevail.

I'm happy that you can draw such a clean distinction between the two in your mind, but I can't. Misguided beliefs and all that.

 

[hoos30]

That's both true and false. It did end the war, so you're right that it may have saved more lives than it took. However, could the same result have occurred if the bomb were dropped on a major naval installation instead, demonstrating the same power? We don't know, but it's possible. Perhaps it would have been more moral to drop a bomb or two on large installations first, and only then hit civilian targets if the Japanese leadership refused to surrender.

Just an example of how the bombings can both be justified, but also perhaps unjustified.

The fact that it took TWO bombings to convince the Japanese to surrender answers some of your hypotheticals. They were willing to absorb a lot of punishment before giving up.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

It was a great speech. It was missing the direct apology though... but I can't blame them either.

Hiroshima and such was in direct retaliation for what happened at Pearl Harbour, right? It was essentially an eye for an eye. It's not right, but that's not what you can argue during war.

But at the same time, I believe it would be the same for an apology (an Apology for an Apology).

When I read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Because of MacArthur's douchebaggery, we're still mired in this apology stubborness decades later.

 

[Furio53]

It was a great speech. It was missing the direct apology though... but I can't blame them either.

Hiroshima and such was in direct retaliation for what happened at Pearl Harbour, right? It was essentially an eye for an eye. It's not right, but that's not what you can argue during war.

But at the same time, I believe it would be the same for an apology (an Apology for an Apology).

When I read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Because of MacArthur's douchebaggery, we're still mired in this apology stubborness decades later.

why was it an eye for an eye thing from PH? Seemed to be more of a "let's not assault their main islands and lose thousands of lives while they dig in and fight to the death"

I've seen a lot of people online talk about the bombing being retaliation for PH. I mean.. i guess? PH was a war declaration. So technically everything after was a retalitation.

edit- and there never should be an apology for it.

 

[Jenov]

Beautiful speech. And can we not turn this into another bomb debate thread?

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Overall a good speech, kinda meanders a bit in places and has a tendency to circle back on itself, but when it nails it, it nails it.

Hiroshima was not an eye for an eye action. Japan up to that point had quite literally shown a determination to fight to the point of its own extinction if there was even a slim chance of victory. Japan at that point had already been soundly defeated in every strategic aspect, having been completely pushed back to their home territory, and any rational actor would have long since surrendered knowing that the ensuing naval landing and defense would result in astronomical losses on both sides with little if anything left to gain. The hope was that use of theretofore unimaginable force would get them to recognize the futility of the long term fight and look instead at the preservation of its own people. You can argue whether or not the bombing was justified or whether there were alternatives, but let's not paint the bombings like some jingoist revenge plot.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The fact that it took TWO bombings to convince the Japanese to surrender answers some of your hypotheticals. They were willing to absorb a lot of punishment before giving up.

Even then leadership was split on surrender, and attempted a coup as the Emporer was going to announce surrender.

It was a great speech. It was missing the direct apology though... but I can't blame them either.

Hiroshima and such was in direct retaliation for what happened at Pearl Harbour, right? It was essentially an eye for an eye. It's not right, but that's not what you can argue during war.

But at the same time, I believe it would be the same for an apology (an Apology for an Apology).

When I read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Because of MacArthur's douchebaggery, we're still mired in this apology stubborness decades later.

Uh the only direct retaliation was the Doolittle raid. If you actually think the timeline was

Pearl Harbor----> A bomb


There is little hope.

 

[peaceiscloser]

I hope I get to see disarmament in my lifetime. We hold the keys of the utter annihilation of the world for the first time in our history. We've been hearing and seeing more reference to nuclear proliferation in the last few years that it just creates so much fear. I love the President's vision of hope for a moral revolution.

 

[Toxi]

Americans, make sure that someone as good as this man enters office after him.

Our options right now are all a distinct step down.

 

[DrForester]

Than goodness it wasn't what the NBC headline said it would be...

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Off topic, but how is your avatar a gif?

Mod-appointed to mock him after he mocked Canada, IIRC.

 

[Concept17]

It really reminded me of some of Sagan's greatest words.

“From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.”

Yup. Same here.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Obama is the greatest president.

Repeal the 22nd amendment!

 

[Gattsu25]

Any indications on how this was recieved by the Japanese?

 

[Samurai G0SU]

God bless this man and his chapter after with presidency.

 

[Steve.1981]

That was a wonderful speech. Obama is a class act. We are going to miss him when he steps down.

Maybe I'm looking to much into it but I'm sure he started saying, "All men are created equal.." in a naturally proud voice before quickly checking himself, pausing and continuing in a more subdued tone. Looked and sounded that way to me.

 

[brian577]

"But among the nations, like my own, that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them. We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe."

What load of shit. 8 years and not once has he mentioned nuclear disarmament. Just keeping them out of the hands of rogue states. That opportunity came and went with the 90s anyways.

 

[Apple Turnover]

Uh the only direct retaliation was the Doolittle raid. If you actually think the timeline was

Pearl Harbor----> A bomb


There is little hope.

I obviously can't speak for the person you initially quoted, but in my history classes in Canada, they basically skipped over almost everything that happened in the Pacific Theatre of the war, essentially making it look like the bombs were in retaliation for Pearl Harbor

Spoiler

my teacher was also just awful at his job

 

[shoreu]

Great speech. I'm going to forever wonder what the US might achieve with an Obama third term.

Some of you guys cynically giving credit to speechwriters only, come on. I'm sure he has speechwriters, but Obama's speeches have always had a distinct optimism and measured reasoning only his hand could have written part of this speech. Give credit where credit is due.

Off topic but we can use gifs in avatars now?

 

[SecretMoblin]

"But among the nations, like my own, that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them. We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe."

What load of shit. 8 years and not once has he mentioned nuclear disarmament. Just keeping them out of the hands of rogue states. That opportunity came and went with the 90s anyways.

It's a cheap way for the political leader of a nuclear state to appear positive, optimistic, and peace oriented. He campaigned on working to eliminate nuclear weapons, too.

As empty as Reagan's "We seek the total elimination one day of nuclear weapons from the face of the Earth.” They know full well the realpolitik power a nuclear arsenal provides but blow smoke for cynical, political reasons.

 

[Sirpopopop]

"But among the nations, like my own, that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them. We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe."

What load of shit. 8 years and not once has he mentioned nuclear disarmament. Just keeping them out of the hands of rogue states. That opportunity came and went with the 90s anyways.

New START?

Just for starters...

This isn't the first time he's mentioned nuclear disarmament.

 

[Sain Drevia]

Americans, make sure that someone as good as this man enters office after him.

Unfortunately, that is not in the cards this election cycle, but hopefully we do better next time.

 

[Fat4all]

Off topic but we can use gifs in avatars now?

Nope, only as punishment.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Good speech.

"But among the nations, like my own, that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them. We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe."

What load of shit. 8 years and not once has he mentioned nuclear disarmament. Just keeping them out of the hands of rogue states. That opportunity came and went with the 90s anyways.

Nuclear arsenal is a fraction of what it used to be decades ago. A lot of progress has been made. The US at one time had 30.000+ bombs. Now it has under 5.000.

Large problem is getting both the US and Russia to disarm at the same time more. This is not a thing one party can chose itself.

 

[jackal27]

Holy damn.

Teared up at the part where he brings it together to show that together Japan and the US have accomplished so much more than we did apart. What a president.

 

[Kastrioti]

Amazing speech. Sometimes I disagree with President Obama but I'm really going to miss him especially given the two potential candidates who will replace him.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

"But among the nations, like my own, that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them. We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe."

What load of shit. 8 years and not once has he mentioned nuclear disarmament. Just keeping them out of the hands of rogue states. That opportunity came and went with the 90s anyways.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_START

 

[Nekemancer]

Going to echo most of the people here, love the speech, love the guy. Does anyone happen to know how Japan has received the speech, generally speaking? Found a few articles that suggested that it's been equally well received, but not a ton of info.

 

[Aurongel]

Terrific speech, read it twice now. I'm glad it touches upon how our collective sense of morality is increasingly losing pace with technological advancement.

 

[Redd]

Wish my POTUS cpuld run for a third term. Nice speech Obama.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

meh, it's just copied from the mgs2 ending

 

[Fatalah]

My man, pots 'n pans.

 

[Darksol]

What a moving speech. Exquisite.

 

[MeBecomingI]

The entire world will suffer when Obama leaves office. Incredible speech.

 

[GorillaJu]

That was very nice and read as very genuine. I only had a chance to read the transcript so far, but I think I'll watch the video later so I get a chance to hear the delivery.

Thanks for transcribing it.



Sorry to be "that guy", but I noticed a couple of typos in the transcript where you wrote "hibakusha" as "hibukasha".

I copy/pasted it from the Japan Times, I didn't transcribe it.

 

[Levyne]

Great Speech. Thanks for linking it.

 

[victreeb3l]

I'm gonna miss Obama. I cant imagine any of the current choices running ever saying anything remotely as eloquent as him.

 

[midramble]

Any indications on how this was recieved by the Japanese?

I thought the speech was pretty moving but my Japanese wife tells me that a lot of the Japanese media is only mentioning that it wasn't an apology and was blaming the events on the nature of man. That's at least what 3 news sources were saying. She mainly keeps up on yahoo jp.

 

[Jintor]

Everybody's favourite foreign writer Jake Adelstein (mileage may vary) picks up the thread from the Daily Beast:

There were discussions about having a former POW attend the ceremony, which apparently did not come to fruition, but Obama did nod in their direction. And one of the survivors he met with, Shigeaki Mori, 79, was a hibakusha who had also spent years researching the demise of U.S. prisoners of war who had also died in the bombing.
Prior to the arrival of Obama, the streets near the park were lined with eager citizens hoping to catch a glimpse of the president on his way to the ceremony.

“I respect President Obama for coming here today, despite opposition in his own country. No apology was needed. That he came and paid his respects was meaningful. We hope that it’s a step forward to a world without nuclear arms,” said Toshio Wada, a retired office worker whose own mother was 26 when the atomic bomb was dropped. He grew up hearing stories of the living hell that followed, of burnt victims walking the streets with their flesh hanging off their arms like ill-fitting clothes.

Yoko Watanabe, who was born the day after the start of World War II, was also exposed to the deadly radiation of the atomic blast, at the mere age of 3. Yet she too didn’t demand an apology or expect one. She said, “We never expected the president of the United States to visit, but we are so happy that he did, and we hope that the prayers of Hiroshima will reach the world and echo through in President Obama’s actions, towards a nuclear-free world.”

Wada also explained why many felt Obama didn’t need to apologize. “I think that the Japanese people are a people who will accept things only ‘as is’ in its entirety. We don’t have that character of demanding an apology just for the sake of it. Japanese people hope for something genuine that comes after accepting everything that has happened, not a forced apology for the sake of an apology.”

He said that he had attended last year’s annual speech, and while avoiding direct criticism of the prime minister, stated that “It didn’t feel like his heart was quite in it. It seems to have become more of a ritual over the years. Not so sincere, maybe too indirect.”

more at the link

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ered-hiroshima.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

bear in mind that Jake tends to court controversy and has a pretty entrenched position. Still, he's a much closer view to the ground that you're gonna find in English at least.

 

[140.85]

It's heartbreaking to hear that there are Japanese still so attached to the idea of an apology. It's a shame they remain so ignorant of the historical record.

 

[Omadahl]

Just run again Barry. I'll vote for you a third time. We have probably witnessed the best orator president of our times.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Just run again Barry. I'll vote for you a third time. We have probably witnessed the best orator president of our times.

Maybe he needs a third term to actually do the disarmament he announced in 2009. Or a few more.

It’s a funny thing: the administrations that talk the most about reducing nuclear weapons tend to reduce the least.

Analysis of the history of the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile shows that the Obama administration so far has had the least effect on the size of the U.S. nuclear weapons stockpile of any of the post-Cold War presidencies.

http://fas.org/blogs/security/2014/10/stockpilereductions/

If a problem could be fixed with just a speech Obama would indeed be the greatest president who ever was or will ever be.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Maybe he needs a third term to actually do the disarmament he announced in 2009. Or a few more.

http://fas.org/blogs/security/2014/10/stockpilereductions/

If a problem could be fixed with just a speech Obama would indeed be the greatest president who ever was or will ever be.

Do you have a graph for Russia?

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Do you have a graph for Russia?

Was going to say, Putin diving off the deep end kind of ruins the idea of disarmament. Hell he was sabre rattling with nukes over Ukraine.

 

[Dice]

Maybe start by rolling back the imperialism.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

A very moving and heartfelt speech. I may disagree with the President in certain matters of policy, but there's no denying he's down some amazing and wonderful things during his two terms. I'll miss him when he steps down.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

Makes an interesting counterpoint to the railgun thread.