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Transformers Prime is the best piece of Transformers Media ever produced.

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D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
And yes i'm including Beast Wars in that statement (though it is a close second). It has the best character development and motivation, emotion, and storytelling in the series.

I would spend time on the overall show but instead i'll focus on the titular character, Optimus himself. Best Optimus Prime ever. Prime has always been known as a leader, perhaps the ultimate leader, but this is the first Prime who is actually deserving of the mantle. He did what was necessary, even if it wasn't popular or went against his personal code. G1 Prime was great, however he too often was a babysitter for his legions of followers, and constantly spited himself with poor decision making for the sake of being "good". Almost every other version of Optimus was a red and blue stand in with the exception of Beast Wars, who's Optimus was a descendant. Comic Primes have Jesus complexes and too often rush to sacrifice themselves at a moment's notice.

Prime Optimus was densely layered. I feel the most badass moments of the series AREN'T when he
slices a mountain in two
or
beats Megatron within an inch of his life
, but when he
goes straight from battling Megatron with Swords to continuing his research to beat Megatron to the punch hunting relics
or
explains to the Autobots that their massive power must be controlled on Earth, right after slicing a mountain in two with the Star Saber.
He was ALWAYS leading. He did come off as aloof and was criticized for that on more than one occasion, but the best leaders can seem disengaged from the small stuff because of their focus on the bigger picture.

Prime does everything that made G1 great and made it better, except for one thing
(no Gestalts.
G1 is obsolete. (Though i'm sure that won't stop geewunners who haven't seen 3 seconds of Prime from declaring it inferior based on nothing but Nostalgia.)

It's a shame the original vision for the show was cut down. Hasbro had no idea what it wanted to accomplish. Cross posted from the Transformers OT:

-----------------------------------------

I pulled this from Seibertron - Rik Alvarez details why the Aligned Continuity failed.

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http://40.media.tumblr.com/d67e410f89e6b1fe2cafdbee72a5bdf4/tumblr_nwdqi0L2ta1qedozeo3_1280.jpg

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And if you were wondering why Beast Hunters was such a ridiculous mess…
A few things mentioned in the panel that aren’t on these slides:
- New director wanted personal control over the season and scrapped the original plans for season 3 overnight.
- Weird obsession with awful color schemes. Lots of internal fighting over characterization and details.
- Determined to erase as much of what was originally planned as possible.
- This whole mess cost so much money and did so poorly that it closed HasLab and essentially put off Hasbro from making other major TF investments.
Click to expand...

A lot of blame being thrown around. Seems Hasbro didn't have all its ducks in a row:

Tried to start everything off with WFC
IDW already had a few long running TF series and didn't want to kill them off to start new lines
TFP Studio wanted creative freedom and didn't want to be rigidly tied to WFC.

There were also a ton of notes from the scrapped season 3 and 4 of TFP and the failed Transformers MMO. Aligned continuity wasn't just for Transformers but GI Joe, Mask, Inhumanoids, and even Jem :

* AOE Crosshairs was originally Smokescreen
* "Aligned WAS the future." It was a ten-year plan.
* TFP Smokescreen was made from the model of MMO Prowl (we knew this already, I think)
* Skyquake was originally going to be Skywarp
* There were fights over whether or not to make Trypticon the intelligence awakened in Flying Mind, as well as whether or not Smokescreen would've had his #38. Also, there was going to be a "background reference" to Trypticon being the Nemesis but the writers forgot to add it.
* Silas' last name was originally Sumdac
* Season two would've ended with a revived Cybertron, everyone would've come home, including the Maximals. Season three would've had the Pirates (Thundertron) and a Wild West feel.
* Cosmos would've appeared and had his alt mode from a B movie set (sounds basically like the unused plan in Animated)
* The MMO game would've had "world bosses" which would've required faction team ups to defeat. Thunderwing, the Herald of Unicron from the TFP game, would've been one of these.
* By the end, Prime was costing $1.6 million an episode.
* WFC was originally a G1 prequel
* TFP was going to lead into a massive Avengers style Unit: E crossover to jumpstart the other brands participating. Ratchet and Fowler from TFP; Duke from GI Joe; Synergy from Jem and the Holograms; Princess Lollipop from Candyland; also characters from MASK, Stretch Armstrong, Micronauts, Sectaurs, Primordia (the renamed Inhumanoids) and more.
* Clarification: Unicron/Megatron/Galvatron would've teamed up with Airachnid and combined their legions of Terrorcons for Predacons Rising.
* Rik Alvarez: The books (Exodus, Exiles, Retribution and I think the Covenant too) were terrible and Rik basically rewrote them himself the night before they were published.
* The new design team for season three said "**** you" to the Binder of Revelation, wanted a green Optimus and the beasts.
* The studio didn't want Airachnid because girls. They only agreed to her if she had claws on the side of her alt mode on her toy.
Click to expand...

Hasbro sprung Beast Hunters on Haslab and the Studio last minute which fucked both and forced the Studio to wrap up season 2s plotlines more quickly to introduce the Beast Hunters concept. Prime was supposed to be 4 seasons. This also explains why Predaking was the only Predacon Beast in season 3 and why the toys never seemed to sync up with the show. I'm very biased in that i'm team studio in this affair - I think TFP is a masterpiece as it is, even though they had to scrap a LOT of their apparent plans and Preds Rising was very clearly rushed. So glad the studio was able to fight off those awful ideas for season 3 of TFP (Green Optimus?! Why?)

I would have loved to see the Studio's original vision for Prime.
---------------------------------

It's really disappointing that Hasbro had no idea what it had with the BOR - they could have built a universe with Transformers in the center. As it stands the scrapping of plans leaked into Prime itself - I assume
Bulkhead's quick recovery for instance was in part due to them having to wrap up his storyline in time to debut Predaking
, and
Ratchet staying behind in the finale made no sense in show until you realize it was to spin Unit E off into it's own show.
 
T

Tecl0n

Member
If i wasn't so blinded by Beast Wars nostalgia, i'd fully agree that it is the best show. 1986 still reigns supreme, though.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
I found Prime to be underwhelming most of the time, like a 3d, less interesting version of Animated. It was the plot. The characters were solid enough, the animation was fine, but the plots just didn't interest me most of the time. They didnt have any wow factor, and a lot of character interaction felt hollow and contrived. I was just...bored. I watched the whole series and I can hardly recall any of the episodes.

Beast Wars continues to be the clear king in my mind. Great characters and a continued sense of discovery and surprise as the series progressed. Characters had a lot of personal interaction with each other that felt legitimate.

I very much liked Transformers Animated, though I do not like Optimus in that series. Everyone else was great.
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
Squalor said:
Michael Bay-formers are the best Transformers media ever produced.
Click to expand...

i'd say they're the worst, if not for the fact that those mind-numbingly awful Cartoon Network anime shows exist. Literally unwatchable. And I did try.

As for TF: Prime, yep, it's the best by far, at least from a story standpoint.
 
Stilton Disco

Stilton Disco

Member
It's pretty damn good, I'll grant you, but not a patch on either James Roberts work or Marvel G1 (particularly with the extra UK stuff).
 
Hatty

Hatty

Member
I haven't seen this, does Optimus have a mouth in the series? It always bothers me when he has one
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
My top three Transformers series are Prime, Beast Wars, and Animated, but they are all different enough that I find it hard to rank them. However, I was honestly rather bored by Prime a lot of the time; I couldn't recall a specific scene for the life of me, other than the Predaking fight, while I can do that with the other two series.

All this information about stuff going on in the background is interesting, though not particularly surprising given the history of the Transformers brand. Well, I suppose I am surprised by the green Optimus and absolute refusal to have female Transformers (unless she had claws). Odd stuff went on with season 3 of My Little Pony too, though that didn't end up killing the series. I wonder if there's a connection.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
Pretty much all multi media aligned continuities break down eventually. Even the ones that stick together, are very messy and don't feel cohesive.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Hatty said:
I haven't seen this, does Optimus have a mouth in the series? It always bothers me when he has one
Click to expand...

He does. It bothered me at first, though he still used the faceplate in battle which I feel is a nice compromise.

Don't let a mouth stop you from watching the best TF show ever.

Haloid1177 said:
Animated was way better in pretty much every perspective, and most importantly wasn't unbelievably dull.
Click to expand...


I really feel like the only reason people like Animated is because of all the G1 pandering.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
I really feel like the only reason people like Animated is because of all the G1 pandering.
Click to expand...
Nah, I'm not too familiar with G1. I liked it because:
* The premise of the Autobots not being skilled in combat at all, but having to fight off battle-hardened Decepticons, was interesting. Even just one Decepticon felt like a huge threat, at the start. Granted, I'm not a fan of the human villains they came up with to make encounters with the Decepticons more special.
* I thought the heroes were fun and likable, though Optimus was admittedly whiny at points.
* A likable humanoid companion in Sari, though every other human was hideous.
* In general, the show allowed itself to be fun.
 
S

Stronty

Member
Every kid in America with a tv could watch G1 in 1984, you didnt need cable since GIJoe and Transformers were carried by every local market and could be watched over cable or antenna. Robots In Disguise, Beast Wars and Machine Wars were also available over local affiliates. Why are the new TF shows only available over a cable channel that not every cable company carries, seems like a huge potential audience is being missed.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Stronty said:
Every kid in America with a tv could watch G1 in 1984, you didnt need cable since GIJoe and Transformers were carried by every local market and could be watched over cable or antenna. Robots In Disguise, Beast Wars and Machine Wars were also available over local affiliates. Why are the new TF shows only available over a cable channel that not every cable company carries, seems like a huge potential audience is being missed.
Click to expand...

Network TV doesn't play cartoons anymore, no money in it.
 
Y

yami4ct

Member
By saying 'media', are we including comics? If so, More than Meets the Eye beats it by miles. MTMTE isn't just great Transformers stuff, it's awesome sci-fi in general.

As for shows, I think BW just beats it because it feels like a more complete thing. As your OP acknowledge, Prime definitely went through trouble on the backend and you can feel it in the last season. Still a very good show.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
yami4ct said:
By saying 'media', are we including comics? If so, More than Meets the Eye beats it by miles. MTMTE isn't just great Transformers stuff, it's awesome sci-fi in general.

As for shows, I think BW just beats it because it feels like a more complete thing. As your OP acknowledge, Prime definitely went through trouble on the backend and you can feel it in the last season. Still a very good show.
Click to expand...
Beast Wars ad the same trouble, only in the beginning. They hadn't even decided what type of show they wanted to make halfway through season 1.

Beast Wars is great but don't let nostalgia cloud you - it had many one off episodes, far more than Prime ever did.
 
Y

yami4ct

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Beast Wars ad the same trouble, only in the beginning. They hadn't even decided what type of show they wanted to make halfway through season 1.

Beast Wars is great but don't let nostalgia cloud you - it had many one off episodes, far more than Prime ever did.
Click to expand...

I've watched BW recently. It might have a slightly lower average because it went longer, but I think the highs are higher and I feel like it's more complete overall. Season 3 of Prime is kind of a downer to go out on. Even if BW started weaker, it still feels like a more cohesive experience.

They are both very good.
 
F

ffejeromdiks

Banned
Nope, Prime was a competent, well made Transformers continuity but it was shockingly sterile. It had it's moments though, and featured arguably the best incarnation of Starscream, if it wasn't for my boy 'Screamer stealing every single scene he was in, I might have dropped it back in s1.

I think one of my biggest criticisms is that Optimus himself has become so boring and soulless, someone else needs to take over for Optimus, Peter Cullens voice is clearly iconic, but he is long past the point of phoning it in.
 
Y

yami4ct

Member
ffejeromdiks said:
Nope, Prime was a competent, well made Transformers continuity but it was shockingly sterile. It had it's moments though, and featured arguably the best incarnation of Starscream, if it wasn't for my boy 'Screamer stealing every single scene he was in, I might have dropped it back in s1.

I think one of my biggest criticisms is that Optimus himself has become so boring and soulless, someone else needs to take over for Optimus, Peter Cullens voice is clearly iconic, but he is long past the point of phoning it in.
Click to expand...

I don't really think it's the voice. It's the characterization. The voice is certainly a symptom of the problem, but you could get a new actor and run into the same issue or you could use Cullen and still fix it. In the vast majority of TF media, no one does anything substantial with Prime and Megatron. It's just the same tales we've seen since G1.

It's part of what has made More than Meets the Eye so refreshing. They actually have done new shit with Megs.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
yami4ct said:
I don't really think it's the voice. It's the characterization. The voice is certainly a symptom of the problem, but you could get a new actor and run into the same issue or you could use Cullen and still fix it. In the vast majority of TF media, no one does anything substantial with Prime and Megatron. It's just the same tales we've seen since G1.

It's part of what has made More than Meets the Eye so refreshing. They actually have done new shit with Megs.
Click to expand...
Makes me wonder why so many people complain about Animated Optimus Prime. He's a different take on the character and I enjoyed that.
 
Y

yami4ct

Member
Toxi said:
Makes me wonder why so many people complain about Animated Optimus Prime. He's a different take on the character and I enjoyed that.
Click to expand...

People hate change. The fact they were getting a young and inexperienced Prime worried them because it was new. It's the same reason we had 'Trukk not Munky' complaints around the time BW started.

Transformers fans are often a frightened and fickle bunch. Look at all the times the franchise was Ruined Forever.
 
F

ffejeromdiks

Banned
Toxi said:
Makes me wonder why so many people complain about Animated Optimus Prime. He's a different take on the character and I enjoyed that.
Click to expand...
I loved animated, it definitely took a while for it to grow on me, but yeah 'ol bluefaced Optimus is the freshest take on Optimus the past decade. I especially loved that he was in no way, the leader of all autobots, it was interesting to see him much further down the chain of command.
 
S

SolicitorPirate

Member
Absolutely loved season 1 of Prime, but thought season 2 was a mess. Guess all the behind the scenes drama explains a lot of it.

I'm a little confused about the no girls thing though. The original team was against having female transformers? That's really weird given how much of a protagonist Arcee was in the early seasons. I remember speculations running during season 1 that the show was leading to her eventually becoming the next Prime.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
yami4ct said:
I don't really think it's the voice. It's the characterization. The voice is certainly a symptom of the problem, but you could get a new actor and run into the same issue or you could use Cullen and still fix it. In the vast majority of TF media, no one does anything substantial with Prime and Megatron. It's just the same tales we've seen since G1.

It's part of what has made More than Meets the Eye so refreshing. They actually have done new shit with Megs.
Click to expand...

Couldn't disagree more. I feel like people who make those complaints don't understand the character. Optimus Prime has overseen (and is arguably responsible for) Centuries of civil war. The fate of literally his entire race depends on the decisions he makes. He's not going to be laid back.

The Autobots of G1 never accomplished anything, mostly because it was a cartoon to sell toys, but also because while everyone called Prime a great leader he never actually made the tough choices. TP's Prime did. The weight of Peter Cullen's voice adds to the gravity of the the character and his situation.
yami4ct said:
People hate change. The fact they were getting a young and inexperienced Prime worried them because it was new. It's the same reason we had 'Trukk not Munky' complaints around the time BW started.

Transformers fans are often a frightened and fickle bunch. Look at all the times the franchise was Ruined Forever.
Click to expand...



While I agree that People hate change, I personally hated that Optimus because he wasn't Optimus. He was Rodimus in Optimus' clothes.

Change is a good thing, but you have established Archetypes for the show. Why change Optimus into something he never was when you can make a new character?

Beast Wars was great because they created new characters with new personalities despite the show having ties to the old G1.

I prefer what they did with Robots in Disguise by making Bumblebee the new young inexperienced leader, rather than trying to again cram Optimus into something he's not.
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
Beast Hunters being such a mess precludes Prime from being the best. It was still pretty good for what it was.

Animated remains the best show for me. I think if they hadn't gone with such a wonky art style, it'd be more recognized for being as good as it was.
 
H

Haloid1177

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
I really feel like the only reason people like Animated is because of all the G1 pandering.
Click to expand...

I never even finished watching all of G1 because I disliked it so much so most of the pandering is lost on me. Love the art, the characters felt really well fleshed out, Prowl is the GOAT TF character in it, and the toyline is the best non-MP toyline to date as well.
 
Duane Cunningham

Duane Cunningham

Member
I guess I didn't realize that the Aligned continuity was done. Isn't the new RID part of it? I haven't seen it. Sucks. After playing the games and reading the novels, Prime didn't always fit perfectly, but it was close enough. I thought it would be nice for them just to stick with one continuity instead of always hitting reset.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Nah

Simon Furman's marvel transformers stuff is the best.

I have a soft spot for certain tf eps (war dawn, revenge of bruticus, dark awakening etc), as well as Transformers Animated (the one where screamer has an allspark shard), but the Furman marvel stuff is forever my favourite. Got most of them in hard back ten years ago when they were rereleased, and they were just as fun so it's not a nostalgia thing, Yes? (death's head ftw).
 
N

NEO0MJ

Member
It was pretty good, though yeah the troubles it faces had a negative effect on quality later on. Kinda like the new TMNT, actually.

yami4ct said:
Transformers fans are often a frightened and fickle bunch. Look at all the times the franchise was Ruined Forever.
Click to expand...

Reading that page reminded me of...this.

339433-legion_large.jpg


I still have no idea what Takara were thinking.
 
P

Pop-O-Matic

Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
While I agree that People hate change, I personally hated that Optimus because he wasn't Optimus. He was Rodimus in Optimus' clothes.

Change is a good thing, but you have established Archetypes for the show. Why change Optimus into something he never was when you can make a new character?
Click to expand...

1) Because Transformers Animated was it's own interpretation of the franchise and therefor shouldn't be beholden to what was done before.

2) It was coming off the heels of Bayformers and they obviously wanted characters that were recognizable to audiences who had watched that (ex. how their kid-appeal yellow car character was originally Hot Shot before they changed it to Bumblebee to line up with the movie).

3) It probably would have turned off more viewers if there was no Optimus than if they just gave Optimus a different characterization.

4) To sell toys.

Duane Cunningham said:
I guess I didn't realize that the Aligned continuity was done. Isn't the new RID part of it? I haven't seen it. Sucks. After playing the games and reading the novels, Prime didn't always fit perfectly, but it was close enough. I thought it would be nice for them just to stick with one continuity instead of always hitting reset.
Click to expand...

RID '15 is still part of Aligned, but they essentially threw out the universe bible they had and are just doing whatever now.
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
TFP isn't better than Beast Wars, sorry. Way too much meandering in the first two seasons, whereas Beast Wars only meanders for one season.

And the best piece of TF media ever produced is and continues to be James Roberts' More Than Meets The Eye ongoing comic series.
 
A

AlStrong

Member
I'm having trouble following all the acronyms.

I only understood War for Cybertron/Fall of Cybertron because I read a bit about the background.
 
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