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Trudeau called Merkel to avoid calling out Trump at G20 summit over climate

gabbo

Member
If you Canadians think Trump won't try to fuck you over no matter what appeasement you gave him, I feel bad.

He's currently fucking over every American that hasn't lick his asshole. He'll probably screw over Trudeau just because he was close to Obama.
If only geopolitics worked like NeoGAF. Trudeau has already come out publicly against his pulling out of the Paris Agreement. And he called out the US for dropping the NATO ball. That he has to also ease back a bit because we share a border and immense trade that Merkel doesn't have to worry about is why he's not going to go out of his way to antagonize the orange moron unless he has to.

Is Germany going to make up for the trade losses that would surely arise from publicly spanking Trump? I don't think so.
 

Heshinsi

"playing" dumb? unpossible
We're the ones who have to live next door to that petulant orange child. Trudeau already mentioned what he had to in a clear and to the point official statement. We're already starting a trade war with soft wood lumber, what else does Merkel want us to do?
 

Violet_0

Banned
why are we assuming that angering Trump would have any noticeable effect on the trading relationship? Trump isn't the economy
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
On the one hand I guess I understand why people are so mad right now.

On the other hand if Merkel had listened maybe the US would still be in the climate agreement. So I'm not really feeling the outrage myself.
 
... Wait are we playing team sports with our world leaders now? Why the hell is everyone taking this "Leader of the Free World" shit so seriously? Are we so tribal that we have to try tearing down leaders who are generally great allies over nothing cases like this?
 

stephen08

Member
I think a lot of people here are too quick to take the hard 'Fuck Trump' position and get upset when politicians don't. Here's the thing: regardless of how wrong or incompetent Trump is he still holds a lot of power. Calling him out on this would do what exactly? Alienate him certainly. Would it change his position at all? Of course not.

The art of diplomacy is working someone so that they do things that play to your advantage. You won't get Trump to reverse his decision by attacking him over it. What stands a better chance is to try and appeal to him in some other way that might bring about positive change.

He isn't backing down from Canada's commitment at all so our country is still making the right moves. He's doing what he can with Trump to try and push him into a better spot while maintaining a stable situation overall.
 
Scrapping mentions of the Paris Accords at the friggin G20 would be incredibly shameful.

Not that I don't understand the position Canada is in, but this really is just unacceptable to me.
 

Indrid Cold

Unconfirmed Member
Eh I can understand he's in a difficult position and we kinda have to be neutral to crazy man in the south but asking to remove any mention of CC from the g20 goes a tad beyond that and is cowardly (or very misguided at least) imo.
 

JordanN

Banned
I think a lot of people here are too quick to take the hard 'Fuck Trump' position and get upset when politicians don't. Here's the thing: regardless of how wrong or incompetent Trump is he still holds a lot of power. Calling him out on this would do what exactly? Alienate him certainly. Would it change his position at all? Of course not.

The art of diplomacy is working someone so that they do things that play to your advantage. You won't get Trump to reverse his decision by attacking him over it. What stands a better chance is to try and appeal to him in some other way that might bring about positive change.

He isn't backing down from Canada's commitment at all so our country is still making the right moves. He's doing what he can with Trump to try and push him into a better spot while maintaining a stable situation overall.
I just don't like the world has to be play by Trump's rules.

It's a bit ironic since Trump doesn't even play by his own country's rules. But the moment Trudeau tells the orange clown to back the fuck up, we're the ones that get punished?

That's not fair. Trump needs to be shown consequence, or else he and the GOP will never be stopped.
 
Jesus, I'm so fucking disappointed in Trudeau. Not sure if I'm voting for him again.
He turned out to be a snowflake, which sucks. Probably a good dude overall and I am partially kidding on the snowflake bit, but he's got no bite. There's not only one way to do things, and maybe his approach is not all wrong, but I prefer in your face sometimes. It has more impact.. I just get the feeling sometimes he's a little unsure still, which is not great.
 
Great, now all the other nations will feel they don't need to be a part of the agreement either.

This is just fucking great. 😔
 
Japan, and generally the rest of Asia needs US military might to keep China in check so I can understand having to play the diplomatic game with them.
 

Fritz

Member
I still think it is weak and I also think it is the wrong approach for Canada. First of Canada has a pretty good trade balance with the US. As unpredictable as Trump is it's not a "bad deal" for the US especially compared to "the bad Germans". And German companies are heavily invested in the US. Merkel has every reason to appease Trump too.

But here it comes: Trudeau's diplomatic game is shit. Merkel is ten times better at this. You need Trump to respect you and not make yourself his bitch. I don't think any other allied country has been under verbal attack like Germany outside of probably Mexico. Yet Trump has also again and again shown his respect to the chancellor. It's also not like she ever said she wanted to antagonize him. All she wants to do is show him some red lines. And Trudeau wants to strike every mention of the Paris Accord from the schedule? Congrats, you have just shown big Mr Manager that he can do whatever the fuck he wants with you.


And finally this is not about some minor issue it is about the future of this world. Trudeau had a nice enough address after trumps announcement but unfortunately he lacks the spine to go through with it. And lol at people emphazising that Canada still sticks to the Paris agreement. Should we have expected you to follow suit and sign off with Trump?
 

Occam

Member
I still think it is weak and I also think it is the wrong approach for Canada. First of Canada has a pretty good trade balance with the US. As unpredictable as Trump is it's not a "bad deal" for the US especially compared to "the bad Germans". And German companies are heavily invested in the US. Merkel has every reason to appease Trump too.

But here it comes: Trudeau's diplomatic game is shit. Merkel is ten times better at this. You need Trump to respect you and not make yourself his bitch. I don't think any other allied country has been under verbal attack like Germany outside of probably Mexico. Yet Trump has also again and again shown his respect to the chancellor. It's also not like she ever said she wanted to antagonize him. All she wants to do is show him some red lines. And Trudeau wants to strike every mention of the Paris Accord from the schedule? Congrats, you have just shown big Mr Manager that he can do whatever the fuck he wants with you.


And finally this is not about some minor issue it is about the future of this world. Trudeau had a nice enough address after trumps announcement but unfortunately he lacks the spine to go through with it. And lol at people emphazising that Canada still sticks to the Paris agreement. Should we have expected you to follow suit and sign off with Trump?

I agree with this. Furthermore, Trump has shown time and again that he has zero loyalty towards anyone, so it's not like this servile behavior has any tangible benefits.
Trump is a bully. Bullies are actually weak. The way to treat bullies is to oppose them, not to appease them. Appeasement has never worked. Macron has shown how it's done.
Since Canada has a very nice trade agreement with the EU, the country is not as dependent on the US as it used to be.
 

Lilith

Member
giphy.gif

I can agree with this ^

And: what the hell, uguise? You're backing off because of economic benefit. But this is still the only planet we have. I feel sorry for our descendants, they have to pay for this ignorance
 
Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

Seriously. I particularly love how American liberals/progressives/democratic socialists/whatever-they-call-themselves-now suddenly think they're in a position where they can tell other countries what they should be doing. They were too inept to stop Trump -- to say nothing of winning the Senate, the House, most state races, and generally stopping decade after decade of rightward drift -- but now, of course, they're such strategic geniuses, they know what liberals in other countries should be doing.

Equally obnoxious are non-Americans who act as if Canada can just start throwing caution to the wind and insulting Trump loudly, without fear of repercussion. It's easy to talk big when you're separated by an ocean, but when 75% of your trade is with your neighbour, sometimes it pays to know when to be a little circumspect. You can certainly argue that Canada shouldn't have so much of its economy tied up with one trading partner, but a) that trading partner is the largest economy in the world, b) the U.S. is Canada's only neighbour, with the rest of the world either an ocean or half a continent away, and c) it's reality, and insisting it should be otherwise means ignoring the last sixty years of North American economic development.

Besides Canada's position on climate change and the U.S. couldn't be any more clear. If Trudeau's statement wasn't obvious enough, you had our Foreign Minister, Chrystia Freeland, give a speech a few days ago that essentially said Canada would work with other countries in a post-U.S. hegemony world, and you had the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Catherine McKenna, interviewed by the New York Times about how Canada is shifting its focus on fighting climate change to working with the individual states. I don't know how much more clearly they can spell it out. I know that doesn't work for people desperately wishing that the Love, Actually press conference was real life, but that's not how the world actually works.
 

Kurtofan

Member
seems like trudeau is changing is mind

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...ttps://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

The fact that our friend and ally has come to question the very worth of its mantle of global leadership puts into sharper focus the need for the rest of us to set our own clear and sovereign course," Ms. Freeland said. "For Canada, that course must be the renewal, indeed the strengthening, of the postwar multilateral order."

Welcome to the Trudeau Doctrine: Canadian foreign policy seeks to preserve multilateral institutions and the Western alliance in the wake of America First.

This will not go down well with the prickly – and, it seems, at times paranoid – American President. And it contradicts earlier efforts to preserve good relations with the Trump administration in the lead-up to renegotiating the North American free-trade agreement.

But whether out of frustration or despair, Mr. Trudeau and Ms. Freeland now believe that appeasing Mr. Trump simply isn't worth the effort, if only because it implies agreeing with his approach.
 

Nerazar

Member
I mean you could praise Trump into that agreement again, as long as you put his name on it and if you tell him that Obama wouldn't have done it, because that guy is a sissy...

... but no, he deserves to be called out. For the people of Pittsburgh, not Paris.
 
You talk like he's pulling out of the accord
What's the point of being a part of the accord, of being an alleged "leader of the free world" if he's not going to stick his neck out and speak for its principles? A treaty lives and dies on actors incorporating its push and principles. I expect this boot-licking from TM and Abe.
 
Seriously. I particularly love how American liberals/progressives/democratic socialists/whatever-they-call-themselves-now suddenly think they're in a position where they can tell other countries what they should be doing.

That is clearly Trump's job now.

edit: but seriously, it's good that Trudeau's starting to see the folly in appeasing Trump. The fucker is a sadistic narcissist, he won't play ball. Just bully you if he sees weakness.
 
What's the point of being a part of the accord, of being an alleged "leader of the free world" if he's not going to stick his neck out and speak for its principles? A treaty lives and dies on actors incorporating its push and principles. I expect this boot-licking from TM and Abe.


He's not pulling out of the accord
 

balohna

Member
I vote NDP (including in 2015) and fuck no Mulcair is not a quality leader.
I actually agree he was not a great leader, but I voted NDP anyway because Trudeau never seemed particularly principled from his voting record as an MP. His campaign was way more left wing than he had ever been before, or has ever been since. I wish more people saw through that.
 

Lexxism

Member
What's the point of being a part of the accord, of being an alleged "leader of the free world" if he's not going to stick his neck out and speak for its principles? A treaty lives and dies on actors incorporating its push and principles. I expect this boot-licking from TM and Abe.
He's not and stop making him one. Plus, there's no one that should be labelled as "leader of the free world".

inb4 someone quoted me my past "leader of the free world" post. It was a reference on the old thread
 
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