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[Dr.Acula]

It's not really appeasement, Canada's not altering any policy, they're just not poking the bear. Trump's an idiot, who would rather get praised in public and give up something, than be mocked while coming out ahead.

The business relationships, economic relationships, trade relationships, security relationships, etc. are far too intertwined for Trudeau to act unilaterally.

Maybe it makes you feel good if Trudeau went out like Macron and mocked Trump, but it's different for people who have businesses and personal lives that straddle both sides of the US/CAN border.

I don't see what Trudeau, with a new government, and a majority gains politically from taking a hard-tone against Trump when he's still holding a hard-line.

Trudeau is going to need political capital when marijuana legalisation comes. Trump's AG, Sessions, says weed is heroin levels bad, and we have a border situation today where even admitting to smoking pot at any point in the past can have you barred entry into the United States.

And I don't see why Trudeau, eschewing tact and diplomacy, and generally acting like Trump (whose behavior everyone is criticising) gets anyone anything.

When NAFTA was threatened, Trudeau said publicly he'd welcome negotiations (appeasement to some), but apparently persuaded Trump in a phone call behind the scenes to let it alone.

There's some kind of weird anti-Trump virtue-signalling people are expecting from Trudeau of all people because what -he's going to turn into Theresa May trying to get photos with Trump to boost his image?

Trump made hay over Clinton/Obama not saying "radical Islamic terror" over and over. Like that would help anything, other than being a recruiting tool for ISIS.

Well guess what? The radical group that worries me in Canada isn't ISIS, it's the GoP, and I don't want them radicalised against Canada for no good reason. Canada can handle these people through diplomacy because while Americans are too partisan to even get the same message from Comey's damning testimony, I think Canadians are smart enough to see that Trudeau's words and deeds are actually Trump-critical.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

It is in this country, it will do nothing in the overall process to decouple our reliance on hydrocarbons. I don't trust the government at all with any concept of taxing people into submission. They should have made more incentives for green living besides the stick and carrot they've adopted

We will have to taper off our reliance on fossil fuels within the next 20 years.

Again, all expert analysis projects that oil demand will peak in the 2030s:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bp-outlook-idUSKBN1591QQ
(this is an outlier projection)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...oil-company-thinks-demand-may-peak-in-5-years

http://www.mckinsey.com/industries/oil-and-gas/our-insights/is-peak-oil-demand-in-sight

To not act now, like what the conservatives are proposing, would be short sighted and completely idiotic.

 

[gutter_trash]

Trudeau campaigned on approving the pipelines. That was never a surprise to anyone when they elected his party to government.

this is true,
drive-by posters think that Trudeau promised them the moon but he never did.

Trudeau campaigned in favor of Keystone XL and Kinder Morgan while opposing Northern Gateway

 

[Cactus]

I really don't see the issue here.

 

[Lonely1]

Yeah, unique position of being USA neighbors...

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

Call us salty, because we are given how quickly our ally abandoned us only for you guys to be the first country to get hit with the tariffs, and after Trump reaffirmed your special relationship nevertheless... But yes, we are still willing to work with you on forming an unified front for a sane relationship with Trump's USA. Abandoning us in a futile quest for appease the beast only weakens us both.

I'm Canadian.

I am 100% for doing something about climate change.

I'm also 100% for not paying $5 for an orange.

Our dollar is weak right now. In terms that nerds will understand, we pay $80 for video games right now.

So we are relying on a madman to the south not to destroy us. You think Trump gives a fuck?

He is a SPITEFUL man. You look at him wrong, he'll do some crazy shit.

I'm Mexican. We are paying $1400 mxn now for a vg compared to $900 before November. So, sorry if I'm still salty.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

It's like this all the time when international issues pop up. EU should sanction Russia more, but how are they going to heat their homes then? EU should take in all the refugees, but who is going to pay for it? EU needs to spent more on military, but we don't really start wars all over the world lately.

Now people have a little bit of criticism on Canada. Nothing wrong with it.

Canada not aligning themselves with the EU is stupid. Together you can stand up to a larger country, but when you split up, you don't have a say and are just pushed around.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah, unique position of being USA neighbors.


Call us salty, because we are given how quickly our ally abandoned us only for you guys to be the first country to get hit with the tariffs, and after Trump reaffirmed your special relationship nevertheless... But yes, we are still willing to work with you on forming an unified front for a sane relationship with Trump's USA. Abandoning us in a futile quest for appease the beast only weakens us both.

Who is us?

Who is Canada abandoning.

This is not appeasement

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

Can't really blame him, there's no reason to make Donald mad when calling him out for this would accomplish nothing. Canada is gonna continue increasing their clean energy and we'll continue denying science, some words that will only give the left a little more ammo don't matter in the grand scheme of things imo.

 

[JordanN]

Oh noes
He flunked the purity test

I see this purity thing brought up all the time. What's the deal?

Are politicians now these immortal god figures exempt from criticism? If you don't want to be called out, why not run a country truthfully?

 

[Xando]

Whole lot of non-canadians opinionating on how we should jump on a grenade for them.

Love how canadians pretend to be czechoslovakia instead of taking some responsibility in international diplomacy as the 10th largest economy on earth.

 

[jakonovski]

Love how canadians pretend to be czechoslovakia instead of taking some responsibility in international deplomacy as the 10th largest economy on earth.

Putin's gonna roll the tanks on Ottawa if Trump gets unhappy. They have no choice!

 

[Pandaman]

Love how canadians pretend to be czechoslovakia instead of taking some responsibility in international deplomacy as the 10th largest economy on earth.

We'd like to keep that economy, thank you very much. We don't all have the worlds largest trading bloc in our backyard. Call us when Trump does more than moan about you on twitter, because we have actual consequences to deal with.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Sometimes it's best to not be completely forthcoming with a child.

 

[Lonely1]

Who is us?

Who is Canada abandoning.

This is not appeasement

I'm Mexican.

 

[ClosingADoor]

We'd like to keep that economy, thank you very much. We don't all have the worlds largest trading bloc in our backyard. Call us when Trump does more than moan about you on twitter, because we have actual consequences to deal with.

CETA says hi! You have easy access to that market.

 

[gutter_trash]

I'm Mexican.

don't you guys your internal politics to fix? like 70 years of one party rule, inequality, corruption and the absence of justice?

 

[Simon Belmont]

CETA says hi! You have easy access to that market.

Sure, we'll just roll all that Just-In-Time auto parts delivery through the super cheap air transit system. It'll work just the same, I'm sure.

Not to be snarky, but there's a little more to it than trade deals.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm Mexican.

Ahh that makes sense then.

 

[Pandaman]

CETA says hi! You have easy access to that market.

There's still the tiny matter of the Atlantic, although CETA is nice.

 

[Xando]

We'd like to keep that economy, thank you very much. We don't all have the worlds largest trading bloc in our backyard. Call us when Trump does more than moan about you on twitter, because we have actual consequences to deal with.

I'm from germany m8. Trump is literally threatening trade war and playing with our security. Thanks for keeping our backs though

 

[Earthstrike]

Love how canadians pretend to be czechoslovakia instead of taking some responsibility in international diplomacy as the 10th largest economy on earth.

Love how people are classifying not withdrawing from the Paris accords as not taking responsibility.

How dare we not affirm our commitment to global warming a second time to achieve nothing that we didn't the first!

The outrage!

 

[subrock]

Handsome Harper disappoints again

 

[Lonely1]

don't you guys your internal politics to fix? like 70 years of one party rule, inequality, corruption and the absence of justice?

What kind of response is this?

 

[RiverShell]

Seeing as you posted too soon to read the entire article, it seems you're essentially admiting that you base your voting habits on Neogaf topic titles? Gee, sure glad we have people like you voting.

Actually, I did read it all. Sorry to disappoint you. Your post reads like an attempt at a 'sick burn'

 

[Simon Belmont]

What kind of response is this?

Not a constructive one, that's for sure.

 

[Silexx]

I see this purity thing brought up all the time. What's the deal?

Are politicians now these immortal god figures exempt from criticism? If you don't want to be called out, why not run a country truthfully?

You can definitely criticize, but the issue I take (and others have taken) is that people are criticizing while ignoring geopolitical context. I've already explained that Trudeau is operating under a specific strategy re: Trump that can be summed up as "Pick your spots and don't mention him by name". This story essentially demonstrates the execution of that strategy. Meanwhile, most of those criticizing Trudeau in this thread essentially are just going "lol Trudeau all-talk".

 

[oti]

He's not going to commit.

6 countries or 19 countries yelling at him isn't going to make it happen either...

I'm not talking about Trump.

Trudeau's got way more to lose than anyone else. I'm fine with putting pressure on Trump for pulling out of the Paris Accord, but why are we blaming Trudeau, when other countries asked to remove the issue as well?

You know that an all-out trade war wouldn't be that great for Germany either, right?

We're already signatories. We ratified it last October. Isn't this about a commitment to optics rather than a commitment to the accord?

It's the G20. The most important summit on the planet. Of course it's commitment to the accord.

It's on the first page:


Beyond that, there's no reason for Canada to engage in political stunts at G20. It will have no effect other than to stroke some egos, and do nothing to help Canada.

It's sad to see the accord being degraded to a "political stunt" all of a sudden.

Shame, UK/Japan/Canada. Such a shame.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Actually, I did read it all. Sorry to disappoint you.

So you'd rather care about symbolic gestures than actual concrete action? You want rational and logical action on climate change, then Trudeau is your man.

It's the G20. The most important summit on the planet. Of course it's commitment to the accord.

If this isn't commitment, then what is?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=239819707&postcount=146

 

[Pandaman]

I'm from germany m8. Trump is literally threatening trade war and playing with our security. Thanks for keeping our backs though

Thanks for looking out for us. Shame about those tweets, must be rough.

 

[RiverShell]

So you'd rather care about symbolic gestures than actual concrete action? You want rational and logical action on climate change, then Trudeau is your man.

I'm just worried that this will work out of badly, but you're right.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm not talking about Trump.

So then were you talking about Canada in this post?

One of the G7 shouldn't be asked to formally commit to the Paris Accord at the G20 summit?

Canada is formally and firmly committed.

Nothing in that story has anything to do with Canada's commitment to the accord

 

[Xando]

Thanks for looking out for us. Shame about those tweets, must be rough.

So you ignore that time Trump handed merkel a 100 billion dollar bill, threatened to impose tariffs on steel when she was in washington or that time he told the juncker and tusk he's gonna put tariffs on german car exports.

Good to see you are informed.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Thanks for looking out for us. Shame about those tweets, must be rough.

You do know the EU borders Russia right, a country that is using Trump to destabilize NATO. The Germans have plenty to be worried about with Trump and a lot at stake in keeping peace and stability in Europe, that Trump is not helping with at all.

And that is not even going into the economic side the post above mentions.

 

[kmax]

Well, EU won't fuck around this issue.

I expect them to tell Trump to fuck off.

 

[Simon Belmont]

I really hope people here aren't earnestly comparing the trading relationship between Germany and the US and Canada and the US. It's not even close. We have the second largest trade relationship in the world.

 

[knkng]

Canada not aligning themselves with the EU is stupid. Together you can stand up to a larger country, but when you split up, you don't have a say and are just pushed around.

We are still aligned with the EU. Both on paper and in direct statements from Trudeau himself. Why do we have to engage in political stunts on top of that?

"Everybody who agrees with the Paris Accord raise you hand!"

*People snicker at Trump*

Wow, it sure was a good idea to compromise future relations with the US for that...

It's sad to see the accord being degraded to a "political stunt" all of a sudden.

Shame, UK/Japan/Canada. Such a shame.

I never said the Accord itself is a stunt. Calling out Trump at G20 has no benefit other than to make certain people feel empowered. Maybe show your commitment through action instead of "nyah-nyah" politics.

 

[Xando]

I really hope people here aren't earnestly comparing the trading relationship between Germany and the US and Canada and the US. It's not even close. We have the second largest trade relationship in the world.

I'm sure a trade war between the two largest economic blocs on earth will be a cake walk compared to a tradewar between the US and Canada

 

[truestatic]

I'm from germany m8. Trump is literally threatening trade war and playing with our security. Thanks for keeping our backs though

Again, the USA amounts to less than 10% of German trade, and 75% of Canadian trade. You aren't in our position, stop pretending you are.

 

[ClosingADoor]

We are still aligned with the EU. Both on paper and in direct statements from Trudeau himself. Why do we have to engage in political stunts on top of that?

"Everybody who agrees with the Paris Accord raise you hand!"

*People snicker at Trump*

Wow, it sure was a good idea to compromise future relations with the US for that...

Putting pressure on a government about their climate change position is now a "political stunt"?

Again, the USA amounts to less than 10% of German trade, and 75% of Canadian trade. You aren't in our position, stop pretending you are.

Trade war with Germany = trade war with the EU. They are one and the same for this.

 

[Xando]

I never said the Accord itself is a stunt. Calling out Trump at G20 has no benefit other than to make certain people feel empowered. Maybe show your commitment through action instead of "nyah-nyah" politics.

You do realize they commit money to actual programs at these G20 meetings right?
Trudeau wants to take climate off the agenda to keep Trump happy which means there won't be any discussions on joint programs.

Again, the USA amounts to less than 10% of German trade, and 75% of Canadian trade. You aren't in our position, stop pretending you are.

Once again you fail to understand that a trade war between the US and germany means a trade war between the US and the EU.

 

[Simon Belmont]

I'm sure a trade war between the two largest economic blocs on earth will be a cake walk compared to a tradewar between the US and Canada

Again, the USA amounts to less than 10% of German trade, and 75% of Canadian trade. You aren't in our position, stop pretending you are.

This. Just take a small moment and contemplate the idea that we're not in the same position and it's implications. That's called empathy.

Edit: And this whole thing is just about a pointless dick swinging about a pact we're already signed on to, and is wildly popular in our country

 

[Draxal]

Once again you fail to understand that a trade war between the US and germany means a trade war between the US and the EU.

Um, a trade war between the US and EU wouldn't hurt Germany to the degree that it would fuck Canada.

Look I'm not a fan of Trudeau, but lets not pretend this is anything close to what Neville Chamberlain did.

 

[djkimothy]

Are you guys forgetting that Canada is forced to renegotiate NAFTA within the next few months?

Yah, i hate trump as much as anyone but there are a hundred things at play.

The US has applied tariffs on our lumber. there are other mechanisms to apply pressure. Attacking our biggest trading partner will put us in a tough position.

Edit: Ohhhh. I get it. This is a purity test thing.

 

[knkng]

Putting pressure on a government about their climate change position is now a "political stunt"?

Trump can't be reasoned with. If anything, the pressure will result in a backlash. If the US wants to move backwards, then just let them wither and die through natural progression.

You do realize they commit money to actual programs at these G20 meetings right?
Trudeau wants to take climate off the agenda to keep Trump happy which means there won't be any discussions on joint programs.

If this is true, and it will actually be affecting the business being conducted, then I withdraw my statements and agree with you 100%. But based on the article it seemed like they would still be discussing the issues related to climate change, but just not leaning in on it to unnecessarily provoke Trump.

If I'm wrong then I apologize and am also disappointed in Trudeau for doing this.

 

[gutter_trash]

Germany being a tad bossy and self centered.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I will say this is a pretty shrewd move by Merkel to get this out in the press

There's a sort of power vacuum that's been left by the US basically abdicating it's global responsibilities and Merkel is working overtime to be the one to take that spot.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Trump can't be reasoned with. If anything, the pressure will result in a backlash. If the US wants to move backwards, then just let them wither and die through natural progression.

Trump is an irrational actor on the world stage and it is damn terrifying. That is why I think the other nations splitting up like this instead of forming a united front is a bigger danger to them. Trump can push single nations around with this threats, but that is why we have alliances and partners.

I will say this is a pretty shrewd move by Merkel to get this out in the press

There's a sort of power vacuum that's been left by the US basically abdicating it's global responsibilities and Merkel is working overtime to be the one to take that spot.

Yet I don't get the impression Merkel and Germany really want that spot, but are more being pushed into it because someone has to do it. But that might just be optics and the circumstances under which this happens with Trump and Brexit at the same time working against Germany.

 

[gutter_trash]

I will say this is a pretty shrewd move by Merkel to get this out in the press

There's a sort of power vacuum that's been left by the US basically abdicating it's global responsibilities and Merkel is working overtime to be the one to take that spot.

now Canada knows how Southern Europe feels when Germany goes out barking orders without thinking.

Southern Europe animosity towards Germany is justified

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yet I don't get the impression Merkel and Germany really want that spot, but are more being pushed into it because someone has to do it. But that might just be optics and the circumstances under which this happens with Trump and Brexit at the same time working against Germany.

Oh I disagree.

She clearly wants it.

This conversation doesn't leak if she didn't want it.

And good on her. She's certainly qualified.

 

[Xando]

I will say this is a pretty shrewd move by Merkel to get this out in the press

There's a sort of power vacuum that's been left by the US basically abdicating it's global responsibilities and Merkel is working overtime to be the one to take that spot.

This shows how little you know Germany and Merkel. If it were up to germans they'd have nothing to do with any of this and keep things as they were under Obama.

Merkel herself said multiple times (the last time today) she doesn't want and she doesn't feel comfortable to be in this position due to germanys past.

This whole leader of the free world talk is mostly talk within english speaking media and germans are rather uncomfortable with it.

now Canada knows how Southern Europe feels when Germany goes out barking orders without thinking.

Southern Europe animosity towards Germany is justified

Fuck off with that shit and stop pretending germany was alone on setting conditions to give south europeans money.