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[Musashi Wins!]

This conversation started in another thread but I think it deserves deeper discussion. Blackace contends that MS is flexing major muscle to stop the major sites and publications from reviewing launch games before launch day. Here's what I want to know:

1)Do journos from here have access to full games, but can't review them.

2)Did MS say you can't.

3)Will you abide by that crap and sacrifice your credibility?

4)Is this the rule at launches in general or is MS showing a special sense of the pathetic here?

If this is true...it's totally unacceptable on two counts. One, MS doesn't believe enough in their product to allow any of us to know anything about it. Two, any small resemblance to journalism among the paid game purveyors who would sanction this or participate in it is null and void. How could you argue otherwise?

Of course, if this is all bullshit than I apologize for suggesting otherwise. If it's true...it's outrageous.

 

[ThirdEye]

Here's a review

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27459

 

[clearacell]

2)Did MS say you can't.

If MS said they can't...

that means journalists can't say they said they can't.

 

[SKOPE]

Since when are non-disclosure agreements a new thing?

 

[M3wThr33]

Two weeks before a console's launch. Reviews better start showing up or SOMETHING is fishy.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

If MS said they can't...

that means journalists can't say they said they can't.

why? if it's true, they aren't journalists in any real sense of the word.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

I dont think ANYONE can defend M$ here. They obviously are afraid reviewers will say "these games are shit"

they must have good reason to hold this belief, right?

 

[gamergirly]

Doesnt really matter, if there are any serious problems, it's going to be well known soon after launch. They're just delaying the inevitable.

 

[stewy]

Do you mean online reviews? Those are almost always under embargo until the ship date of the game. That's nothng new.

Print reviews? I think a lot of journos have the games now, but didn't get them in time to put them into the current issues on newsstands thanks to lead times and all that. Again...not really journos in bed with Microsoft or anything. Microsoft has control over when and what they give magazines access to, so the ball's pretty much in their court. Again...nothing new, and certainly not exclusive to Microsoft.

 

[Speevy]

The highest profile GCN launch title was Luigi's Mansion. With the exception of Halo, PGR, and Amped, every game that launched with the Xbox could have been ripped to shreds. You guys are overreacting. There are plenty of games coming out this Fall. Knowing 1 or even 10 of them isn't worth buying at launch would not affect Xbox 360 sales.

 

[Soundwave 2k4]

It seems pretty obvious to me. Microsoft has a lot riding on this launch, and they also have millions upon millions of dollars at hand. They can and will do anything they can. We already know some magazines and websites can be bought out, I'm sure almost every magazine has a price.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Doesnt really matter, if there are any serious problems, it's going to be well known soon after launch. They're just delaying the inevitable.

It matters a lot. There are a lot of games still waiting to be bought, not to mention systems on reserve that carry said games. And it says a lot more about the integrity of the games media. Not to mention what it says about MS.

 

[BlueTsunami]

It matters a lot. There are a lot of games still waiting to be bought, not to mention systems on reserve that carry said games. And it says a lot more about the integrity of the games media. Not to mention what it says about MS.

To be informed is VERY important and I don't back any company that would do what is being done about reviews. Thats Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft.

 

[raYne]

If this is true...it's totally unacceptable on two counts. One, MS doesn't believe enough in their product to allow any of us to know anything about it. Two, any small resemblance to journalism among the paid game purveyors who would sanction this or participate in it is null and void. How could you argue otherwise?

Wow way to jump to conclusions, it isn't like the games will never be reviewed. No early reviews (ie before launch). I recall reading that a long time ago.

Some parties *cough* OXM *cough* and other mags will have reviews around launch... and of course after launch day the sites are free to review all they want.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

fishy, indeed

 

[Musashi Wins!]

To be informed is VERY important and I don't back any company that would do what is being done about reviews. Thats Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft.

So have Sony and Nintendo put a full scale embargo on their launch line ups?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Wow way to jump to conclusions, it isn't like the games will never be reviewed. No early reviews (ie before launch). I recall reading that a long time ago.

Some parties *cough* OXM *cough* and other mags will have reviews around launch... and of course after launch day the sites are free to review all they want.

what conclusion am I jumping to beyond the fact that MS doesn't have faith in their launch product to stand up to scrutiny, and that the gaming press is bought and sold by the people making the product?

 

[SuperPac]

3)Will you abide by that crap and sacrifice your credibility?

That's a ridiculous question. If the site did not want to abide by that, then they don't sign the NDAs or online embargo agreements. Of course, then they don't get the games or the debugs or anything else until after launch.

If this is true...it's totally unacceptable on two counts. One, MS doesn't believe enough in their product to allow any of us to know anything about it. Two, any small resemblance to journalism among the paid game purveyors who would sanction this or participate in it is null and void. How could you argue otherwise?

I don't think it's unacceptable at all, nor does it indicate that Microsoft's games are crap. Online embargoes are used so often now that most of the time you wouldn't even realize it.

 

[BlueTsunami]

So have Sony and Nintendo put a full scale embargo on their launch line ups?

True, I wasn't stating that they did. Just don't want to be chopped at the legs by someone stating Nintendo or Sony has done it also.

 

[Ryudo]

I guess its better than paying the journo's off to give glowing reviews before the system ships right......

In any sense we all know PGR3 will be a killer game. Theres one out of three.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

That's a ridiculous question. If the site did not want to abide by that, then they don't sign the NDAs or online embargo agreements. Of course, then they don't get the games or the debugs or anything else until after launch.

Which would be a perfectly reasonable decision if integrity were at stake.

I don't think it's unacceptable at all, nor does it indicate that Microsoft's games are crap. Online embargoes are used so often now that most of the time you wouldn't even realize it.

I don't know what to say to that except that you and I have very different standards of acceptable market behavior.

I'm often there to argue back at the GAF dumbness that rails against MS, but that you guys would dc this is ....gross.

 

[raYne]

what conclusion am I jumping to beyond the fact that MS doesn't have faith in their launch product to stand up to scrutiny, and that the gaming press is bought and sold by the people making the product?

Well it is just the one conclusion, but if I say "way to jump to conclusion" it looks/sounds weird to me...

 

[GashPrex]

wow, some of you are far too eager to overreact, launch isn't till the 22nd of this month. lot's of games are embargoed till closer to launch/release dates, it's part of a marketing strategy.

Just talk to rockstar, they don't do it because they are "afraid"

 

[krypt0nian]

Do the two Gamepro reviews count?

 

[Speevy]

Even with mediocre scores, the launch X360 stuff will outsell anything else that's yet to be released this year.

We're actually talking about a year in which the top battle is "Mario Kart DS vs. GTA LCS". Give me a break. At least one X360 game will likely outsell em' both.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

wow, some of you are far too eager to overreact, launch isn't till the 22nd of this month. lot's of games are embargoed till closer to launch/release dates, it's part of a marketing strategy.

Just talk to rockstar, they don't do it because they are "afraid"

Rockstar doesn't give them the games period if I'm not mistaken. There's a distinction here.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

We're actually talking about a year in which the top battle is "Mario Kart DS vs. GTA LCS". Give me a break. At least one X360 game will likely outsell em' both.

I'm curious... which do YOU think will outsell those?

 

[Deg]

Even with mediocre scores, the launch X360 stuff will outsell anything else that's yet to be released this year.

We're actually talking about a year in which the top battle is "Mario Kart DS vs. GTA LCS". Give me a break. At least one X360 game will likely outsell em' both.

No.

 

[Speevy]

I'm curious... which do YOU think will outsell those?

Too early to tell. Launch sales are always hard to gauge. We'll see.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Kobun? Che? Ign guys? Everyone stands up normally, so just give me the straight dope about it.

At least someone tell me if Sony and Nintendo do it the same way.

 

[gamergirly]

Even with mediocre scores, the launch X360 stuff will outsell anything else that's yet to be released this year.

We're actually talking about a year in which the top battle is "Mario Kart DS vs. GTA LCS". Give me a break. At least one X360 game will likely outsell em' both.

When did the PS2 roll over and die?

 

[Catchpenny]

Embargos are kinda shitty in general, though I can understand sites agreeing to it on a case-by-case, game-by-game basis.

An embargo for the whole launch lineup, though? That's an entirely different beast. Really terrible decision if true, on the part of MS and journos alike. Can't see why anyone would want to defend this behavior.

 

[GashPrex]

Rockstar doesn't give them the games period if I'm not mistaken. There's a distinction here.

you really have no idea do you? Gamespot/IGN/Whoever sit on reviews till certain dates agreed upon by the publisher all the time. As for rockstar, they didn't give gamespot copies because they wouldn't agree to certain terms, but they do give out copies that are embargoed.

 

[raYne]

Rockstar doesn't give them the games period if I'm not mistaken. There's a distinction here.

And yet they (Rockstar) have also determined in the past which sites can review what and which sites get exclusives. Neither situation are reasons for "They don't have any faith in their product".

 

[Speevy]

When did the PS2 roll over and die?

I never said it died. But I expect the charts (top 20?) to be lined with X360 titles for November and December.

Does anybody not?

 

[SuperPac]

Which would be a perfectly reasonable decision if integrity were at stake.

So if you owned a website you would rather it have integrity than *any* reviews or impressions or movies or anything on the product's launch day, costing you thousands or millions of hits that drive the ad revenue that keeps you in business.

Trust me you would not be visiting the site that waited (and neither would anyone else) -- you are going to be visiting the sites that signed the contracts.

 

[Tarazet]

Do the two Gamepro reviews count?

Reaction 1: There are Gamepro reviews?
Reaction 2: No, they don't count. It's Gamepro.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Look...I know there's an ugly practice that goes on for the occasional title. And it almost always means that their shit. There are of course exceptions. And I'm not even suggesting that the launch is shit.

What I am wondering is this...here we have an extremely important launch where maybe across the board any important review will be held back until customers spend hundreds of dollars (not tens for a game) on a gaming system. And apparently, it's not an issue of having access. It's that the journalists have been paid off to shut up about it.

All I'm asking is that they defend their good name and tell me it's not true, that someone tell me if Sony and Nintendo have done this too, and that at least we acknowledge that this is in mighty poor form.

Mock me for making a big deal out of it, that's fine. I have a reservation and several games paid off, but if this is the case I can use the information to decide what companies in consoles and magazines, etc. I'll support and not insist anyone do the same.

 

[Grimmy]

Too early to tell. Launch sales are always hard to gauge. We'll see.

Way to go! Completely contradict yourself. You're so sure that X360 games with outsell Mario Kart DS and GTA:LCS, yet admit that it's "too early to tell" and "hard to gauge"? So are you a really bad psychic or just completely biased? Wait for it...

 

[VALIS]

wow, some of you are far too eager to overreact, launch isn't till the 22nd of this month. lot's of games are embargoed till closer to launch/release dates, it's part of a marketing strategy.

Just talk to rockstar, they don't do it because they are "afraid"

Very good point. Rockstar does the same thing all the time and noooooobody complains. What you're allowed to talk about in previews, when you're allowed to do previews, what screens you can show, when you can review the game, etc. etc.

I hate to be such a cynic, Musashi, but it's been pretty obvious for a long time that video game journalism in general is in the publisher's pockets. No, I'm not saying they outright buy good reviews (to my knowledge), nor am I saying it applies across the board, but video game journalism hasn't resembled a "fourth estate," well, ever. They are and always have been partners in the industry.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

So if you owned a website you would rather it have integrity than *any* reviews or impressions or movies or anything on the product's launch day, costing you thousands or millions of hits that drive the ad revenue that keeps you in business.

Trust me you would not be visiting the site that waited (and neither would anyone else) -- you are going to be visiting the sites that signed the contracts.

MS depends on them too. And yea, I wouldn't do business that way, but that's me. I won't buy a membership to any of those sites, or continue them, if it's true. Or buy their subscriptions, etc.

 

[Speevy]

Way to go! Completely contradict yourself. You're so sure that X360 games with outsell Mario Kart DS and GTA:LCS, yet admit that it's "too early to tell" and "hard to gauge"? So are you a really bad psychic or just completely biased? At least, the answer to this is "easy to gauge"

No, I'm not backing away from my prediction.

Put it this way.

I think demand for X360 launch titles will be such that the top titles outsell GTALCS and Mario Kart DS. I never said otherwise.

What those top X360 titles are, I don't know. For example, who could have predicted what the top PSP launch games would be?

I just believe the X360 launch titles will perform exceptionally well. What early adopters choose to buy with their system? We'll see.

 

[Spike]

Even with mediocre scores, the launch X360 stuff will outsell anything else that's yet to be released this year.

We're actually talking about a year in which the top battle is "Mario Kart DS vs. GTA LCS". Give me a break. At least one X360 game will likely outsell em' both.

No. Just no.

The only titles that I see selling really well on the X360 are PGR3 and PDZero. But, I honestly do think that Mario Kart DS is going to sell like gangbusters. I mean, imagine the people buying the DS for Nintendogs and they find out Mario Kart online.

I know lots of people who have written off Nintendo long ago, that are now getting the MK DS bundle just for online MK. It's going to be big.

GTA:LCS is going to do very well too. I think that the new Giga Pack isn't going to sell like crazy, but it will do respectable. I fully expect the basic pack to be released here early next year, then it'll take off in sales. But I don't really think it's going to sell massive amounts, what with the PS3 launch next year. It all comes down to pricing. If the PS3 really is too expensive, then I think the PSP will start selling really well. If the PS3 price is reasonable, then I think the PSP won't do as well as it should.

 

[gohepcat]

what conclusion am I jumping to beyond the fact that MS doesn't have faith in their launch product to stand up to scrutiny, and that the gaming press is bought and sold by the people making the product?

Oh for crying out loud.

Why do people create these huge conspiracy theories? Does it make life more interesting?

I know plenty of game journalists. They are people, just like you or me. If a game is crap, they will tell you that a game is crap.
:lol

There is an embargo just like there always is. It's nothing new.

Hey, how about this, before trashing a group of people, try meeting one of them first.

 

[Deku]

MS might be going for a quiet launch and let word of mouth and gradual press buzz catch up to the casual rather than the traditional launch pattern where you build up insane hype and let it explode in week 1, sometimes a strategy like that will backfire where the hardware and software fails to meet expectations. It will very quickly turn people against a product.

MS actually might know that their 1st gen games won't be that different or impressive and causals may simply be disappointed if they were promised the moon and all they get are prettier versions of what they are playing now.

It's hardly a omen for disaster. It may well just be a strategy. But it could certainly also be a strategy to hide some weakness of their launch, its possible. But wouldn't be declaring Xbox360 failing just yet.

Combine this with recent comments about Xbox360 selling moderately, I think MS knows internally 360 won't come out of the gate very strongly. They are probably projected PS3 being late for a year which will give them plenty of time to wind up. By this time next year, 360 will be in full force to face the PS3. or at least that's what Ms is hoping will happen.

I'm sure Sony will throw a wrench in that timetable and Revolution is the wild card.

 

[GashPrex]

Nobodies been paid to shut up, it's - we'll let you play it now and preview it but you can't review it till midnight on the 21st or whatever it may be. Or maybe they got an exclusive and then its another situation. This is what I can gather, I am no journalist.

Happens with just about all the games from what I can gather. "Review" copies of these games are all done a few weeks before release but rarely do you see them any sooner than a few days before release. You want to build momentum for a release by generating as much hype around that release as possible, and reviews play into that. People will forget in 20 days the big IGN or Gamespot review of a game.

 

[gamergirly]

No, I'm not backing away from my prediction.

Put it this way.

I think demand for X360 launch titles will be such that the top titles outsell GTALCS and Mario Kart DS. I never said otherwise.

What those top X360 titles are, I don't know. For example, who could have predicted what the top PSP launch games would be?

I just believe the X360 launch titles will perform exceptionally well. What early adopters choose to buy with their system? We'll see.

Id believe that if the majority of customers walking into game retailers were preordering Xbox360 and its related products, but you see Brother Speevy, that's just not what is happening. This launch is the for the hardcore Xbox fanbase and those check ready to add a new luxury to their electronic collection. Who else in the right mind would risk their neck trying to get a $299 ripoff on launch day? :lol

 

[Speevy]

No. Just no.

The only titles that I see selling really well on the X360 are PGR3 and PDZero. But, I honestly do think that Mario Kart DS is going to sell like gangbusters. I mean, imagine the people buying the DS for Nintendogs and they find out Mario Kart online.

And we see things a bit differently. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Have the reviewers played the final builds yet? I'm assuming all the launch titles are going to be worked on until the last minute, so why would you want a magazine reviewing an unfinished product?

 

[DSN2K]

stakes are too high for MS this round.