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[BKK]

I really don't know what you expected when you opened this thread. The man flip-flops on everything, it's no wonder people won't take his word for it; plus, as others have said, it's tacit approval for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

It's cool, I'm not a Trump supporter, not a supporter of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, I'm totally opposed to all of that, so glad to see that most others oppose it too.

 

[JP_]

Yes, let's lift sanctions on a nation that hacked and manipulated our elections.

It's the least trump could do

 

[Zeus Molecules]

So are we gonna give them money to do so?

Yes, when before America and they (and us) agreed to do it for free..... great Negotiations there .....

 

[PopeReal]

Can we get the lectures on how we need to get over Trump being president?

Those are fun.

Speak up, lecture circuit. Let us know how these policies benifit us.

 

[rjinaz]

He also said this:

Holy Shite. Can you imagine if Clinton or Obama said these things just a year ago?

Are we fucked America? Yes we are.

 

[Xe4]

Did you forget the start treaty or are we going to erase Obama's legacy as if it didn't exist? And this plan just so happens to coincide with lifting Russian sanctions. People are such easy marks.

See the Ukraine for why this is a bad idea, we are all clearly not ready.(as a species)

When Obama was speaking about nuclear disarmament in 08 the republicans did all they could to condemn it and he moved on to a universal healthcare system.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of lifting sanctions, particularly coming from Trump who I have clear doubts about conlict of intrsest. But nuclear disarmament by itself is no a bad thing, it's just treaties of the such should not lift sanctions, unless said sanctions were put in place specifically to pressure a country into eliminating or reducing its nuclear stores.

And I'm certainly not the only one to critisize Obama for the rate of disarmament. I can't link to sites (mobile), but it's been the slowest rate since the 1980's, which is kind of sad.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

he's definitely had sex with children.

Yeah, I'm starting to think these tapes must not only be the golden shower stuff but also underage prostitutes or something extreme.

 

[PatThePassive]

So we reduce our nuclear arms and stop the sanctions and Russia will reduce their nuclear arms? How is the a win for the US?

And soon a separatists group wants to divide from the US and theres Russian soldiers on vacation here and its all bad from there on.

And I'm certainly not the only one to critisize Obama for the rate of disarmament. I can't link to sites (mobile), but it's been the slowest rate since the 1980's, which is kind of sad.

Just trying to explain why I believe he dropped that cause so easily.

 

[BKK]

So you don't want to be serious about anything ok.

I honestly don't understand what happened there, that doesn't even make any sense.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

They own him financially.

There may or may not be a golden shower tape but I'm sure he's done nasty shit on his trips to Russia.

It doesn't have to be nasty shit.
It's well-known that Trump owes $1.5 billion to banks in the US. Undoubtedly Trump's frequent visits to Russia have led to him accumulating a tremendous amount of debt over there.

Trump is simply paying off all of his debts by selling the USA.

 

[JordanN]

Why is it just Russia? China has tons of nukes too. So does France and the UK.

It's why I find the term pointless. Yeah, get rid of 50 nukes, but the other 3,000 can still destroy the planet.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Why is it just Russia? China has tons of nukes too. So does France and the UK.

It's why I find the term pointless. Yeah, get rid of 50 nukes, but the other 3,000 can still destroy the planet.

Because his goal is not to reduce their nuclear capability, but to have a reason to lift the sanctions, which he was going to do anyway.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Twitter diplomacy is going to be fucking weird.

"well Joe, Putin hasn't retweeted yet, I think it's a bad sign for the deal"

 

[CrocMother]

This is literally the exact opposite of what he was saying just a few weeks ago.

 

[Chococat]

Didn't Trump say on the campaign trail he was going to increase nukes?

Oh wait, there it is: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/22/trump-calls-stronger-nukes-until-world-comes-its-senses/95751928/

Maybe less nukes as long as they are stronger?

 

[BKK]

Why is it just Russia? China has tons of nukes too. So does France and the UK.

It's why I find the term pointless. Yeah, get rid of 50 nukes, but the other 3,000 can still destroy the planet.

Pretty sure that US/RS makes up 90%+ of nukes. RotW is relatively small.

 

[Xtyle]

They own him financially.

There may or may not be a golden shower tape but I'm sure he's done nasty shit on his trips to Russia.

More than that...he makes a lot form lifting the sanctions. The oil deals man..boy, those deals are where the money is.

 

[Vermillion]

What an amazing negotiator! Russia gets what Russia wants, and we get what Russia wants!

In the midst of abject terror, I laughed. Thank you

 

[sphagnum]

Let it be an arms race!

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

Didn't Trump say on the campaign trail he was going to increase nukes?

Yeah, what the hell happened to that arms race he wanted?

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[rjinaz]

Yeah, I'm starting to think these tapes must not only be the golden shower stuff but also underage prostitutes or something extreme.

If we go off the assumption that Trump is being blackmailed over these tapes then I would imagine some women pissing on a bed wouldn't be enough. If this was planned by Russia, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they had some younger aged girls take part in the video, that way they had something to hold over Trump.

But we'll never know, because if a tape exists, I can't see a scenario where Russia releases it unless Trump really pisses them off. He has his lips so far up Putin's ass at this point I don't see it.

 

[Xtyle]

Didn't Trump say on the campaign trail he was going to increase nukes?

Now it makes sense. get on an arms race with Russia and then weeks later, announce a deal with them to reduce nukes...wow, Trump works fast man...the results are coming in already.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

You would think that with all the investigating going on he'd refrain from saying this stuff.

 

[Skatterd]

Let it be an arms race!

Forgot he said this, lmao

 

[Opto]

he's definitely had sex with children.

he most certainly did: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped

 

[Neverthelesser]

Yeah, what the hell happened to that arms race he wanted?

EDIT: Beaten.

I was so confused with that. An arms race with...who?

China? North Korea?

 

[BKK]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

 

[NullPointer]

Here's a Reuters link for anybody who wants some more detail without the Times of London paywall.

Trump's offer to Putin: an end to sanctions for nuclear arms cut - London Times

 

[Lautaro]

Like I said in the other thread, this is just an excuse to remove sanctions from Russia and disguise it as a deal for peace.

EDIT: yep, there we go.

 

[rjinaz]

This is literally the exact opposite of what he was saying just a few weeks ago.

Well it makes sense if Russia wants this. I'm sure they have plenty and they get something out of it. Other nations though, they should have arms.

 

[rokkerkory]

NO DEAL

 

[Lime]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

->

Classic far right tactic - veil your scheme in something positive so that your actions are initially interpreted as positive and benign.

"It's actually about ethics in games journalism" = "it's actually about nuclear disarmament"

Trump is a proven liar, don't fall for his words, but look at his actions.

 

[metalslimer]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

Lol that's really your take on this?

 

[mlclmtckr]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

Putin invaded another country and got sanctions. Now he'll dismantle some nukes and get the sanctions lifted.

So now Putin just gets to conquer random bits of territory whenever he wants in exchange for dismantling some nukes? How do you think that ends?

 

[DBT85]

I have to wonder what odds I can get on Trump not seeing out the whole term.

 

[Einchy]

Didn't he say the exact opposite not even a week ago?

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

That's complete bullshit and you know it.

 

[nomis]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

This is fucking A+ naiveté

 

[PatThePassive]

Putin invaded another country and got sanctions. Now he'll dismantle some nukes and get the sanctions lifted.

So now Putin just gets to conquer random bits of territory whenever he wants in exchange for dismantling some nukes? How do you think that ends?

Dont forget that the Ukraine disarmed its nuclear arsenal as a sign of good faith and was invaded by Russia no more then 2 years later when the Ukraine got serious about joining the EU.

 

[metalslimer]

This is fucking A+ naiveté

No he knows that is BS

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of lifting sanctions, particularly coming from Trump who I have clear doubts about conlict of intrsest. But nuclear disarmament by itself is no a bad thing, it's just treaties of the such should not lift sanctions, unless said sanctions were put in place specifically to pressure a country into eliminating or reducing its nuclear stores.

And I'm certainly not the only one to critisize Obama for the rate of disarmament. I can't link to sites (mobile), but it's been the slowest rate since the 1980's, which is kind of sad.

This isnt horse trading, if you want to reduce nuclear weapons, you make a treaty that's beneficial to both countries. Lifting sanctions is effectively selling out Ukraine.
And since this is a "deal" it means it's non verifiable, Russia can just keep building nukes regardless and now have sanctions lifted.

 

[BKK]

Lol that's really your take on this?

Pretty much, yeah. Nuclear non-proliferation has been pretty much off the table for the whole of the Obama administration. This is massive news for those of us who have been trying to push this back on to the table. Look, I understand that most people campaigning for non-proliferation are also opposed to Trump's other views, but that's not the point, this is a massive opportunity to reduce the world's nuclear weapons, and those that oppose that due to their personal political views of the US president are idiots.

 

[nomis]

This isnt horse trading, if you want to reduce nuclear weapons, you make a treaty that's beneficial to both countries. Lifting sanctions is effectively selling out Ukraine.
And since this is a "deal" it means it's non verifiable, Russia can just keep building nukes regardless and now have sanctions lifted.

I get the feeling that every spun-positive action Trump and or Putin undertake in the next 5-1465 days will be non verifiable

 

[MechaX]

Anyway, seems to me that most people care more about which people stops Nuclear proliferation rather than the actual act of stopping Nuclear proliferation. So yeah, really partisan times that we live in.

Even excluding the context of the parties behind this deal, how exactly would one even verify a deal like this? I mean, the other country can easily show off that they dismantled some busted-ass nukes that probably don't even work anymore. Plus, this isn't even a mutual reduction; the US would literally be telling Russia "bust down some of your nukes. We'll keep our nukes, but we'll give you something else for doing so."

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Pretty much, yeah. Nuclear non-proliferation has been pretty much off the table for the whole of the Obama administration. This is massive news for those of us who have been trying to push this back on to the table. Look, I understand that most people campaigning for non-proliferation are also opposed to Trump's other views, but that's not the point, this is a massive opportunity to reduce the world's nuclear weapons, and those that oppose that due to the political views of the US president are idiots.

This is if you trust that his actual goal is nuclear disarmament or reduction, not just to lift sanctions on Russia, which has been discussed at length as one of his end goals. IMO to trust his explanation for this is not only naive, it's also incredibly intellectually dishonest.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Pretty much, yeah. Nuclear non-proliferation has been pretty much off the table for the whole of the Obama administration. This is massive news for those of us who have been trying to push this back on to the table. Look, I understand that most people campaigning for non-proliferation are also opposed to Trump's other views, but that's not the point, this is a massive opportunity to reduce the world's nuclear weapons, and those that oppose that due to their personal political views of the US president are idiots.

So as long as a country has nukes to trade they can do whatever they want? Nuclear weapons are just a get out of jail free card now? Even for countries that are still building new ones?

 

[BKK]

This is if you trust that his actual goal is nuclear disarmament or reduction, not just to lift sanctions on Russia, which has been discussed at length as one of his end goals. IMO to trust his explanation for this is not only naive, it's also incredibly intellectually dishonest.

Possibly it's all a con, but it has to be worth taking a chance that it's not no?

 

[Ac30]

Possibly it's all a con, but it has to be worth taking a chance that it's not no?

No, because then we're letting Russia annex Ukraine and destabilize the US with no consequences.

Appeasement doesn't work. Chamberlain figured that out in the 30s.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Russia will agree to disarm.
Russia will not agree to intl. inspectors.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Possibly it's all a con, but it has to be worth taking a chance that it's not no?

The fuck?

 

[BKK]

So as long as a country has nukes to trade they can do whatever they want? Nuclear weapons are just a get out of jail free card now? Even for countries that are still building new ones?

Pretty much yeah, that's the whole concept of MAD. Realpolitik.