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Trump tells Duterte of two U.S. nuclear subs in Korean waters

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Yes, you're wrong. The fact that the President of the United States is giving away potential secrets as a way to brag to people is the bigger problem. Sure this time it's probably not a big deal because what Trump gave away is on the vague side, but there's always the chance that it can be something big next time, and that the problem is that Trump has no self control.

The fact that this information is leaking out is just a symptom of how badly Trump has lost the faith of the people ostensibly working for him. It's important albeit not as significant but it's still a condemnation of Trump's government.

not to people

to president of allied nation

I was asking if I was wrong, sarcastically. I'm fairly sure I'm correct in thinking that the leak is the problem here. Not two allied presidents talking to each other about confidential information.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-separation-from-u-s/?utm_term=.c8baedf0cce5

He backtracked pretty hardcore after he said those things. Seems like he was bullshitting to make good with China.

Which is exactly why you don't give specifics. It's also not imperative to go into detail. What was there to gain telling him how many are there? Trump could've easily said "we have contingencies in place" and the point would still be made. If they really needed to know a rational President would coordinate with our military when it comes to disclosing this kind of info.

That why this is so dangerous, he is giving away secrets for no reason than to brag. There is no care or benefit given to when it is appropriate to disclose.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
not to people

to president of allied nation

I was asking if I was wrong, sarcastically. I'm fairly sure I'm correct in thinking that the leak is the problem here. Not two allied presidents talking to each other about confidential information.
Because there are allies and there are allies worthy of knowing about the whereabouts of your nuclear submarines.

Duterte is an erratic, murderous chieftain, and right now the Philippines are less of a strong ally than a nation that seems to be aligned with America, conditions pending. To put it simply, they are not South Korea or Japan.

The navy had a slogan for this behaviour: loose lips sink ships.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Which is exactly why you don't give specifics. It's also not imperative to go into detail. What was there to gain telling him how many are there? Trump could've easily said "we have contingencies in place" and the point would still be made. If they really needed to know a rational President would coordinate with our military when it comes to disclosing this kind of info.

That why this is so dangerous, he is giving away secrets for no reason than to brag. There is no care or benefit given to when it is appropriate to disclose.

If it wasn't leaked, two allied presidents know about confidential information. We all know this confidential information now because of whoever is leaking it. Which is harmful, and should be punished.

The navy had a slogan for this behaviour: loose lips sink ships.

Exactly. Find the loose lip leaker.
 
If it wasn't leaked, two allied presidents know about confidential information. We all know this confidential information now because of whoever is leaking it. Which is harmful, and should be punished.

This information shouldn't be loosely shared on a basic diplomatic phone call. There are proper channels that military information can be shared if needed. There is also no real reason to share this with someone trying to cozy up with China and loosen US ties.

Locations and deployments of nuclear subs should not be shared in specifics, even with allies, without great care. None of that was taken.
 

4Tran

Member
not to people

to president of allied nation

I was asking if I was wrong, sarcastically. I'm fairly sure I'm correct in thinking that the leak is the problem here. Not two allied presidents talking to each other about confidential information.
It's to people in this case. Revealing information to allied countries has to be done in a controlled manner where the consequences of any such reveal are weighed with the interests of all the relevant parties taken into account. Here, it's just Trump shooting off his mouth to the leader of a country that has no interest in the North Korea problem to begin with. Moreover, Duterte isn't wholly aligned to the US to begin with, and he can potentially turn around sell this information to China or Russia.

Exactly. Find the loose lip leaker.
It's in the article: the leaker is Trump!

In the broader sense, there's not that much point in locating the person who leaked the call because it looks like half the people in Trump's government is willing to spill the beans on anything juicy. And that number is only going to rise as people lose faith in Trump.
 

Duxxy3

Member
As much of a piece of shit Duterte is, we have still have military bases in the country. The Philippines is still an ally in that region.
 
welp, since he's telling every states secrets, hope he'll share some huge secret the public too, thing we aren't supposed to know, like the NSA shit
 

GreyWind

Member
If it wasn't leaked, two allied presidents know about confidential information. We all know this confidential information now because of whoever is leaking it. Which is harmful, and should be punished.



Exactly. Find the loose lip leaker.

I did not read the who article but...

what if the leak came from Philippines?
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
This information shouldn't be loosely shared on a basic diplomatic phone call. There are proper channels that military information can be shared if needed. There is also no real reason to share this with someone trying to cozy up with China and loosen US ties.

Locations and deployments of nuclear subs should not be shared in specifics, even with allies, without great care. None of that was taken.

A basic diplomatic phone call from president to president should be able to happen without information coming out. This is clearly confidential and I find it unsettling that this leak is a possibility. Maybe he shouldn't tell Duterte, or maybe it helps build relations with him. He's a leader we should keep an eye on, but the Philippines are an old and strong ally. The only real problem I have with this, is that I somehow now know that there are two nuclear submarines by North Korea.

Moreover, Duterte isn't wholly aligned to the US to begin with, and he can potentially turn around sell this information to China or Russia.

Then that breaks the alliance. He hasn't yet, and I expect that to continue. If it comes to that, there're actions that are taken at that point.
 

GreyWind

Member

This is the code

hoftas1wy9ww4hxdxndq.jpg
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
A basic diplomatic phone call from president to president should be able to happen without information coming out. This is clearly confidential and I find it unsettling that this leak is a possibility. Maybe he shouldn't tell Duterte, or maybe it helps build relations with him. He's a leader we should keep an eye on, but the Philippines are an old and strong ally. The only real problem I have with this, is that I somehow now know that there are two nuclear submarines by North Korea.
The latest events point towards the contrary.

At best, Duterte is an extremely unreliable partner. At worst, he's a liability.
 

4Tran

Member
I did not read the who article but...

what if the leak came from Philippines?
It did come from the Philippines, but Trump officials are basically lining up to confirm that the details are correct.

A basic diplomatic phone call from president to president should be able to happen without information coming out. This is clearly confidential and I find it unsettling that this leak is a possibility. Maybe he shouldn't tell Duterte, or maybe it helps build relations with him. He's a leader we should keep an eye on, but the Philippines are an old and strong ally. The only real problem I have with this, is that I somehow now know that there are two nuclear submarines by North Korea.
Telling Duterte random military secrets isn't going to get on his good side. It's only going to make him think that you can't trust Trump with secrets.

Then that breaks the alliance. He hasn't yet, and I expect that to continue. If it comes to that, there're actions that are taken at that point.
Why would it break the alliance? The US already knows that that kind of information shouldn't be shared with Philippines and countries do things that their allies aren't fond of all the time. In general, the US wouldn't even know it happened.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
The latest events point towards the contrary.

At best, Duterte is an extremely unreliable partner. At worst, he's a liability.

Do you think he'd really take that information and break ties with the US's alliance by revealing that information to someone that's not an ally?

I don't think he's that stupid.

Although, it doesn't matter because it leaked anyways. Everyone knows what was said.

Why would it break the alliance? The US already knows that that kind of information shouldn't be shared with Philippines and countries do things that their allies aren't fond of all the time.

Revealing secret military locations is a pretty big deal. Like has been said in this thread.
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Maybe someone should tell Trump that!

Trump is an idiot, but this is a confidential phone call that included delicate information. The information was confirmed by a US official. That's exclusively harmful. I, some shlump that has no business knowing, now know about two nuclear subs discussed during a confidential phone call.
 
Trump is an idiot, but this is a confidential phone call that included delicate information. The information was confirmed by a US official. That's exclusively harmful. I, some shlump that has no business knowing, now know about two nuclear subs discussed during a confidential phone call.

You can't tell Trump to his face that telling Duterte this is stupid, he only listens to the press. Thus, the leaks.
 
I mean I love shitting on trump but he's likely referring to two subs where this information (they're on western pacific deployment) is public knowledge

USS Cheyenne

http://www.kgwn.tv/content/news/Che...Sasebo-Japan-during-deployment-421230273.html

YOKOSUKA, Japan - Cheyenne's namesake ship, the USS Cheyenne, recently visited Sasebo, Japan during deployment.

The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Cheyenne (SSN 773) arrived at Fleet Activities Sasebo, May 2, for a visit as part of its Indo-Asia-Pacific deployment.

The visit strengthens the already positive alliance between the U.S. and Japan through the crew's interaction with the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force. It also demonstrates the U.S. Navy's commitment to regional stability and maritime security in the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations.


USS Michigan

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/politics/uss-michigan-nuclear-sub-south-korea/

Washington (CNN)The USS Michigan -- a guided-missile submarine -- arrived in South Korea for what a US defense official described as a show of force amid tensions between the US and North Korea.

The US Navy sub arrived in the port city of Busan, South Korea, on the same day that North Korea celebrates the 85th anniversary of the founding of the Korean People's Army.

Publicly the US Naval Forces Korea called the sub's visit to the region "routine" and said the scheduled port call was a chance to highlight the alliance between the US and South Korean navies, but quietly officials told CNN that the timing is not a coincidence.

While the USS Michigan is not expected to take part in the joint exercises, its presence in the region is meant to send a strong message to Pyongyang.

Revealing secret military locations is a pretty big deal. Like has been said in this thread.

He didn't do this....
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
You can't tell Trump to his face that telling Duterte this is stupid, he only listens to the press. Thus, the leaks.

So you're saying the leaks are to alert Trump that he's stupid at the cost of revealing the general location of two nuclear submarines? Do you think that's a worthy trade off?

I mean I love shitting on trump but he's likely referring to two subs where this information (they're on western pacific deployment) is public knowledge

USS Cheyenne

http://www.kgwn.tv/content/news/Che...Sasebo-Japan-during-deployment-421230273.html




USS Michigan

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/politics/uss-michigan-nuclear-sub-south-korea/





He didn't do this....

If this is true, it only makes the leak less warranted. Considering it's not even exposing him as dumb, and exclusively leaking a confidential phone call for no reason.
 

4Tran

Member
Trump is an idiot, but this is a confidential phone call that included delicate information. The information was confirmed by a US official. That's exclusively harmful. I, some shlump that has no business knowing, now know about two nuclear subs discussed during a confidential phone call.
It almost seems that the President should be sharing important information like that using a different channel. And that more care should be taken as to whether to share it at all, or at least more than, "Hey do you know how awesome we are? Get this - we have two submarines..."
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Do you think he'd really take that information and break ties with the US's alliance by revealing that information to someone that's not an ally?

I don't think he's that stupid.

I think you should really pick a good book about the Cold War.

Countless nations across the world seemingly aligned with America have been dealing with its enemies under the table out of convenience. Most times the CIA only caught a whiff of it when it was too late. Some of them went as far as to outright side with Russia or other rival nations/actors when push came to shove. It continues to happen, as seen in the Middle East and Asia.

The most idiotic thing about Duterte is that there's a very good, well known precedent in the region of a leader posing as an ally/neutral actor and then utterly fucking over America.

I've recommended this book a number of times over here.

Knbpjei.jpg


The chapter on Indonesia is one of the most bewildering parts of it because it provides an extremely clear and well researched look into how America utterly screwed the pooch by trusting Indonesia's Sukarno, only for him to turn heel at the first chance. It was a veritable cascade of fuckery that only came to happen because of poor leadership and the complete divorce of the CIA from the White House.
 
If this is true, it only makes the leak less warranted. Considering it's not even exposing him as dumb, and exclusively leaking a confidential phone call for no reason.

The Philippines people leaked the transcript. And talking about the subs clearly wasn't what prompted the leaks. It was the discussion of NK policy and Duerte's double speak or Trump's praise of the drug war
 

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I think you should really pick a good book about the Cold War.

Countless nations across the world seemingly aligned with America have been dealing with its enemies under the table out of convenience. Most times the CIA only caught a whiff of it when it was too late. Some of them went as far as to outright side with Russia or other rival nations/actors when push came to shove. It continues to happen, as seen in the Middle East and Asia.

The most idiotic thing about Duterte is that there's a very good, well known precedent in the region of a leader posing as an ally/neutral actor and then utterly fucking over America.

I've recommended this book a number of times over here.

Knbpjei.jpg


The chapter on Indonesia is one of the most bewildering parts of it because it provides an extremely clear and well researched look into how America utterly screwed the pooch by trusting Indonesia's Sukarno, only for him to turn heel at the first chance. It was a veritable cascade of fuckery that only came to happen because of poor leadership and the complete divorce of the CIA from the White House.

I'll read it, thanks. If Indonesia was actually an ally at the time of their betrayal, I can see your point.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
I would assume that we have direct military-to-military contacts that this information could have been relayed through if the Philippines needed to be looped in on it. Telling Duterte directly is obviously a bad idea, given that he's a mad man. But obviously Trump isn't going to recognize that. I don't think this is a brazen security violation in the way the Russia stuff was since the Philippines are a treaty-bound ally, but it's still dangerously reckless, since any other president would have enough judgment of character to know that Duterte is not personally trustworthy (and would probably be perfectly willing to hand this info out to China/Russia to curry favor with them) and that other contacts in the Philippine security/military services should be used for such sensitive material.
 

fantomena

Member
He is still very stupid.

However, I still don't understand why he just can't stop saying "tremendous" "the best", "amazing", those big words, it's very annoying and he reminds me off a child who just can't stop projecting everything.
 

Mr. X

Member
not to people

to president of allied nation

I was asking if I was wrong, sarcastically. I'm fairly sure I'm correct in thinking that the leak is the problem here. Not two allied presidents talking to each other about confidential information.
Not all allied nations are equal. Not all confidential information is on a need to know basis with even our closest allies. Only South Korea should be privy to such info since the other countries are close with China afaik.
 
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