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[Icyflamez96]

http://abiyamo.com/donald-trump-sig...n-rebels-despite-their-pleas-to-him-for-help/

I'm not at all one to post political threads, but this is a Trump related matter that seems to be more on the more reasonable side. At least, that's the impression I get from responses I've witnessed. It sort of bothered me that it hasn't been posted here because I want to see where users here stand on it. (Unless I just suck at searching for topics)

President-elect Donald Trump has reaffirmed his campaign trail position that assisting the Syrian government in fighting Isis should be the US’ main objective in Syria, despite appeals from rebels for continued help in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad.

“I’ve had an opposite view of many people regarding Syria. My attitude was you’re fighting Syria, Syria is fighting Isis, and you have to get rid of Isis,” he said in a wide-ranging interview with the Wall Street Journal on Friday.

Mr Trump has stated that while he “did not like [Mr Assad] at all”, shoring up his regime is the best way to stem the extremism that has flourished in the chaos of the civil war and threatens the US.

He has also been emphatic about mending ties with Russia, Syria’s long-standing ally and military backer in the conflict.

“Russia is now totally aligned with Syria, and now you have Iran, which is becoming powerful, because of us, is aligned with Syria… Now we’re backing rebels against Syria, and we have no idea who those people are,” he told the Journal, referring to the hardline Sunni Islamist elements present in rebel ranks. If the US attacks Mr Assad, “We end up fighting Russia,” he added.

More at the link.

 

[Ketch]

I think unfortunately for the people of Syria it's the only way the conflict ends

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I mean, it's a damn if you do, damned if you don't situation, so I can't really criticise him here. Except if it goes the way of the Russian military strikes that hit hospitals and the rebels, rather than ISIS. But we'll see.

 

[CHC]

I need other perspectives on this. On one hand, can we really believe Trump (or does it even matter) when he says he doesn't like Assad? Trump likes Russia, and Russia likes Assad, so the end result is the same.

But at the same time, arming rebels is a classic US strategy that is sort of akin to killing your neighbor across the hall by lighting their apartment on fire. I fear it's simply too late for any kind of neat-and-tidy outcome in Syria, so just cutting it off there is perhaps pragmatic.

Still kind of mixed up feeling about all this though. Terrible situation and, as much as I like Obama, it has been one of the weakest and most indecisive areas of his presidency.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

he's right when it comes to arming rebels that we don't truly understand, control or know, it's a very dangerous game America is playing arming rebels

 

[Opto]

So we want to support an Iranian ally because Russia is also an ally and we want to be an ally with Russia. And of course this will create even more refugees, which we won't take any responsibility for.

 

[Chumly]

Unfortunately the ship sailed like four years ago for moderate rebels. The situation is such a cluster fuck now that it's pretty much impossible to not fund extremists by helping the rebels.

Basically everything is a lose lose situation

 

[……forgetit]

Well, yeah? He's backed by Russia after all.

 

[HariKari]

This is what Russia wants. So why is anyone surprised this is his stance?

 

[VendettaRed07]

This is what Russia wants. So why is anyone surprised this is his stance?

This is exactly why

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I think most Americans favor less military involvement overseas anyway. And I think at this point there's not much else to do.

 

[Jumeira]

I mean, it's a damn if you do, damned if you don't situation, so I can't really criticise him here. Except if it goes the way of the Russian military strikes that hit hospitals and the rebels, rather than ISIS. But we'll see.

Just another cock up in the Middle East from us meddling or not seeing things through. That's not going to come back and bite us, no (not aimed at you, just letting out my dismay at the whole thing)

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Just another cock up in the Middle East from us meddling or not seeing things through. That's not going to come back and bite us, no (not aimed at you. Passive aggressive frustration)

I think it already is. The refugee crisis has caused a huge wave of far right movements to be propped up, which probably helps Russia. And Putin becoming more powerful is not good at all.

Not to mention it has given Turkey a huge geopolitical power increase, which is also bad with Erdogan in power. But yeah, no worries man.

 

[The Silver]

The whole situation seems like such a clusterfuck I can't fault Trump for this.

 

[VendettaRed07]

he's right when it comes to arming rebels that we don't truly understand, control or know, it's a very dangerous game America is playing arming rebels

I think giving Trump the wheel is more dangerous than any game we've been playing before but what do I know

 

[The Argus]

I mean, it's a damn if you do, damned if you don't situation, so I can't really criticise him here. Except if it goes the way of the Russian military strikes that hit hospitals and the rebels, rather than ISIS. But we'll see.

Yup. But it's not like Russia and all the other forces in the Middle East havent hit a school or a hospital before. The US and its media outlets are just way more open about it. Also opposing forces like ISIS love to hang out among civilians just to rile people up when some innocent blood is spilled.

 

[Jumeira]

I think it already is. The refugee crisis has caused a huge wave of far right movements to be propped up, which probably helps Russia. And Putin becoming more powerful is not good at all.

Not to mention it has given Turkey a huge geopolitical power increase, which is also bad with Erdogan in power. But yeah, no worries man.

It's a mess. But abandoning people and groups we pledged to support feels like it's going to create an even bigger mess, Assad will go after the Rebels and we can expect the slaughter of thousands (like his Dad did) and we'll be responsible for not providing protection. Refugee crisis will get worse and the burden for all to help will increase. It's going to backfire. I'm sure Obama has a road map at least, gosh this is making me feel sick.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I guess this is more about him wanting to buddy with Russia than any meaningful policy choice.

But this seems like one of the less poor ideas from him. The situation is FUBAR'd, so it's hard to fault anyone for wanting to withdraw.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

The whole situation seems like such a clusterfuck I can't fault Trump for this.

Yup. Syria is so far beyond reason its really a shame. Every time I hear the country I see that little boy with the glazed over look on his face. I hope somebody stop the fighting.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

It's a mess. But abandoning people and groups we pledged to support feels like it's going to create an even bigger mess, Assad will go after the Rebels and we can expect the slaughter of thousands (like his Dad did) and we'll be responsible for not providing protection. It's going to backfire.

Oh in that way? Definitely as well. I honestly wish we had a definitive answer on this topic, because people, regardless if they're combatants or not, are dying horrible deaths.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

I think giving Trump the wheel is more dangerous than any game we've been playing before but what do I know

Your post has NOTHING to do with issue I'm addressing

 

[RustyNails]

I mean, it's a damn if you do, damned if you don't situation, so I can't really criticise him here. Except if it goes the way of the Russian military strikes that hit hospitals and the rebels, rather than ISIS. But we'll see.

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

Link

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

Link

How valid is sn4hr as a source?

 

[LOLCats]

Not our job to police the world. Not our job to go into debt to help out people that really dont like us anyway.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

Link

We're in a post facts world *sigh*

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Not our job to police the world. Not our job to go into debt to help out people that really dont like us anyway.

And millions agreed with you as they voted for Trump

 

[Frozenprince]

Bashar Al Assad deserves to die, but Russia will never allow it. So, unfortunately, we can't do much more, especially since the rebels continue to fracture.

God its disgusting letting him win though.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

http://sn4hr.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/death-toll-en.jpg[/IM G]

[URL="http://sn4hr.org/blog/2016/11/14/29132/"]Link[/URL][/QUOTE]

Oh, I hope I didn't give the impression of being an Assad supporter, because I still think he's the worst piece of shit in this whole conflict.

I do think that at this point, it would be less bad (at least ethically speaking, and considering your chart) to continue the Obama's administration policies in Syria.

 

[RustyNails]

How valid is sn4hr as a source?

• About Us
Founded in 2011 after the outbreak of Syrian Revolution, Syrian Network for Human Rights is an independent non-governmental human rights organization, which aims to document the ongoing human rights violations in Syria, and periodically issuing reports, studies and researches by applying the highest-levels of objectivity and professionalism, as a first step in order to expose and hold perpetrators accountable, and to ensure victims' rights.

• Our Goals

The Syrian Network for Human Rights aims to enrich the human rights culture in Syria, spread awareness among citizens regarding their civil and political rights, and train dozens of Syrians in various fields of human rights. SNHR wishes that Syrian citizens would enjoy their full legal and constitutional rights.

The Syrian Network for Human Rights is a non-political organization that affirms its commitment towards international standards, declarations, and conventions of human rights of the United Nations.

.

 

[Frozenprince]

Not our job to police the world. Not our job to go into debt to help out people that really dont like us anyway.

No it is our job unless other NATO states or the EU want to step up

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Bashar Al Assad deserves to die, but Russia will never allow it. So, unfortunately, we can't do much more, especially since the rebels continue to fracture.

God its disgusting letting him win though.

Saddam deserve to die also? Look what happened to Iraq and the entire middle east after he lost power and his life


the middle east isn't a simple black and white issue of good and bad guys

 

[JORMBO]

I agree with him.

 

[Mohonky]

Well, yeah? He's backed by Russia after all.

While likely a backing of Russia, lets not forget the US is arming rebel groups, we dont exactly know what many of the groups actual intetests are, these backed groups could easily turn into an ISIS like situation all over again. I cant think of any situation where arming groups hasnt come back to bite the hand that feeds.

Also am I the only one who looks at Trump being in some ways cosy with Russia as a potentially agreeable thing in some ways? I mean, Russia is not a beacon of human rights, but sharing some sort of ground somewhere seems a whole lot better than the relations have been, particularly when talking about a 2 Nations capable of wiping one another, and many others out constantly distrusting one a other.

 

[GSG Flash]

One of the only few policies of Trump that I support. I don't trust any group that's backed by Saudi Arabia.

 

[Frozenprince]

Saddam deserve to die also? Look what happened to Iraq and the entire middle east after he lost power and his life


the middle east isn't a simple black and white issue of good and bad guys

Yes he did, the complexity of the situation doesn't absolve him of complicity in mass slaughters.

There being no right answer doesn't give him carte blanche to kill on a whim.

 

[RustyNails]

Saddam deserve to die also? Look what happened to Iraq and the entire middle east after he lost power and his life


the middle east isn't a simple black and white issue of good and bad guys

Saddam deserved to die. But the chaos in Iraq is the result of mismanagement and corruption of the country from the Iraqi government as well as Bush Administration. He kept peace, but did so by gassing any opposition and executing any political dissent.

 

[RiccochetJ]

One of the only few policies of Trump that I support. I don't trust any group that's backed by Saudi Arabia.

I didn't realize that the rebels were being backed by Saudi Arabia as well. Man, this has a lot of parallels to Afghanistan in the 80's.

 

[Xyrmellon]

Wasn't there a video of Syrian rebels heckling U.S. "advisors" (Specop troops) a little while ago? If they don't want us around, I'm all for leaving. Let the Russians lite em up.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

Link

I think most of us are aware of how bad Assad is.

The contention seems to be over backing rebels whose interests we don't know about. Given the USA's poor record in toppling regimes, I don't know how comfortable I feel about backing forces that could easily turn out to be terrible murderers and further destabilizing forces in the region just as much as Assad is.

 

[Frozenprince]

I didn't realize that the rebels were being backed by Saudi Arabia as well. Man, this has a lot of parallels to Afghanistan in the 80's.

There are a myriad of rebels, the largest remaining factions are Sunni army defectors.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

Yes he did, the complexity of the situation doesn't absolve him of complicity in mass slaughters.

There being no right answer doesn't give him carte blanche to kill on a whim.

Saddam deserved to die. But the chaos in Iraq is the result of mismanagement and corruption of the country from the Iraqi government as well as Bush Administration. He kept peace, but did so by gassing any opposition and executing any political dissent.

Not saying he was a good guy and didn't commit crimes against humanity, but sometimes we just have to admit the middle east is a culture we don't understand and should not interfere in

What we do know is this, that region went from being stable to complete hell before and after he died. It's foolish to think the people there would ever accept a western backed leader

 

[RustyNails]

I think most of us are aware of how bad Assad is.

The contention seems to be over backing rebels whose interests we don't know about. Given the USA's poor record in toppling regimes, I don't know how comfortable I feel about backing forces that could easily turn out to be terrible murderers and further destabilizing forces in the region just as much as Assad is.

Why do people keep saying we don't know these rebels? Did Trump's dumbass shit spilled over into neogaf as well?

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

This is what Russia wants. So why is anyone surprised this is his stance?

Well, yeah? He's backed by Russia after all.

Yeah, it's a better idea to be more aggressive towards Russia, such as implementing a "no fly zone". I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

 

[Mohonky]

I didn't realize that the rebels were being backed by Saudi Arabia as well. Man, this has a lot of parallels to Afghanistan in the 80's.

And after Afghanistan was liberated it turned into a shining beacon of....oh no wait, we all got dragged back there again for over a decade and it still shows no signs of improvement.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Good. We had no dog in the fight and just letting assad end it would be best for everyone at this point.

We've been fucking inept at interfering in the Middle East. Let's just stop.

 

[Frozenprince]

And after Afghanistan was liberated it turned into a shining beacon of....oh no wait, we all got dragged back there again for over a decade and it still shows no signs of improvement.

What? Afghanistan is an objectively better place now than under the taliban.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Just so you guys know who the real bad guys are in Syria

Link

Judging by that chart, we should hope that the Fateh Al Sham Front wins the war and seizes power.

On the other hand, they're radical Al-Qaeda Islamists that would likely slaughter, enslave, or oppress every non-Sunni they would rule over, so maybe not.

Casualty figures don't tell an accurate story. Assad is a vicious monster but ultimately would rule Syria much like he did before the war. If an ISIS-like group took over, by contrast, things would be so, so much worse.

 

[CHC]

Bashar Al Assad deserves to die, but Russia will never allow it. So, unfortunately, we can't do much more, especially since the rebels continue to fracture.

God its disgusting letting him win though.

Well the theme of 2016 seems to be letting disgusting people win (Trump, Duterte, Brexit supporters, etc), so why the fuck not I guess.

But, yeah, I wouldn't shed a tear watching Assad & Co go the way of Ceausescu.

 

[Kickz]

The whole situation seems like such a clusterfuck I can't fault Trump for this.

Yup, use the money here on Obamacare

 

[Valhelm]

This is the right idea, but a major exception needs to be made for the YPG/SDF. I worry that's a distinction Trump isn't going to make.