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[PataHikari]

Your logic is so basic. "They are Republician. They will vote anything Republican". Let me ask you this brain buster. Why wasn't Obamacare appealed?

Because it was wildly unpopular?

That's one of the reasons the GOP can't get anything done. Because what they want to get done is hated by the vast majority of Americans and they know it. So they keep having to bribe, cajole, and trick people. Because individual members of Congress are feeling the heat from their constituents about these awful bills.

Not because passing bills is "hard." If what they wanted to do was popular you'd be seeing tons of bills passed.

 

[rokkerkory]

We certainly can. The big businesses are far more influential than our government, and they pay our government to do their bidding. Government is completely useless so long as weak people are running it...

Yeah okay zero government. I am out on this chat. What's zero here is the possibility of this happening.

 

[bomb]

Because it was wildly unpopular?

That's one of the reasons the GOP can't get anything done. Because what they want to get done is hated by the vast majority of Americans and they know it. So they keep having to bribe, cajole, and trick people. Because individual members of Congress are feeling the heat from their constituents about these awful bills.

Not because passing bills is "hard." If what they wanted to do was popular you'd be seeing tons of bills passed.

Historically 4% of bills are passed into law. Trump is suppose to be making bills rain over here.

What's popular?

 

[BANGS]

Yeah okay zero government. I am out on this chat. What's zero here is the possibility of this happening.

I never said it could happen, just that it could. We don't need two leaders, one is enough...

 

[PataHikari]

Historically 4% of bills are passed into law. Trump is suppose to be making bills rain over here.

What's popular?

Trump's supposed to get any bills passed at all.

The GOP ran on repealing Obamacare for the entirety of its existence. The fact that they then failed at that miserably because it turns out they never had any idea of what to replace it with shows what incompetent boobs are currently in charge of that party. They barely, barely managed to get a massive deficit increasing tax cut for trillionares passed.

The first year of the Trump Administration is filled with miserable failures as despite holding all the levers of power they completely fail to get things done.

 

[bomb]

Trump's supposed to get any bills passed at all.

The GOP ran on repealing Obamacare for the entirety of its existence. The fact that they then failed at that miserably because it turns out they never had any idea of what to replace it with shows what incompetent boobs are currently in charge of that party. They barely, barely managed to get a massive deficit increasing tax cut for trillionares passed.

The first year of the Trump Administration is filled with miserable failures as despite holding all the levers of power they completely fail to get things done.

You know that Obamacare got barely barely passed as well. As I said, it's hard to get legislation through Congress. Though you think its easy, history has time and time again proven you wrong.

 

[PataHikari]

You know that Obamacare got barely barely passed as well. As I said, it's hard to get legislation through Congress. Though you think its easy, history has time and time again proven you wrong.

Oh please. The ACA's difficulties in passing came from Obama being naive and trying to work with Republicans despite the fact that they stopped acting in good faith in the 90s.

Also, the Democratic Party only held the Senate for like, a couple months in Obama's first term due to Kennedy passing away.

 

[bomb]

Oh please. The ACA's difficulties in passing came from Obama being naive and trying to work with Republicans despite the fact that they stopped acting in good faith in the 90s.

Also, the Democratic Party only held the Senate for like, a couple months in Obama's first term due to Kennedy passing away.

So it's easy to get legislation to go through Congress and only trillioniares save money on the tax cut. Got it.

 

[Rich TAYLOR]

I think hes doing pretty great. Also this is my first post here hi ^_^ longtime lurker and finally decided to join now that ... ppl have left l.o.l.

 

[PataHikari]

So it's easy to get legislation to go through Congress and only trillioniares save money on the tax cut. Got it.

Are you being deliberately dense?

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTROLS THE HOUSE, THE SENATE, AND THE PRESIDENCY.

YET DESPITE THIS THEY HAVE FAILED TO PASS ANY SUBSTANTIAL LEGISLATION BAR A TAX CUT FOR THE HYPER RICH, BARELY, AT THE END OF THE YEAR

THIS DEMONSTRATES THE GROSS INCOMPETENCE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. BECAUSE IF THEY WERE A POLITICAL PARTY WITH COHERENT IDEAS THAT PEOPLE LIKED, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PASS BILLS TO ENACT AN AGENDA.

THEY HAVE NOT. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA.

 

[bomb]

Are you being deliberately dense?

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTROLS THE HOUSE, THE SENATE, AND THE PRESIDENCY.

YET DESPITE THIS THEY HAVE FAILED TO PASS ANY SUBSTANTIAL LEGISLATION BAR A TAX CUT FOR THE HYPER RICH, BARELY, AT THE END OF THE YEAR

THIS DEMONSTRATES THE GROSS INCOMPETENCE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. BECAUSE IF THEY WERE A POLITICAL PARTY WITH COHERENT IDEAS THAT PEOPLE LIKED, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PASS BILLS TO ENACT AN AGENDA.

THEY HAVE NOT. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE AN AGENDA.

What legislation is widely popular that has not passed as law? 34 Democrats voted against Obamacare.

As I said. Bernie Sanders thinks differently than Doug Jones who has different agendas than Chuck Schumer. You think these people are robots that vote without their own thoughts or opinions. It's comical.

I love the "Do something that's widely popular! It will pass." Lol. Give me an idea. I'd love to hear all these widely popular ideas that noone has thought of before.

 

[PataHikari]

What legislation is widely popular that has not passed as law?

Just off the top of my head.

• DREAM Act.
• Public Option.
• Gun Control.
• Minimum Wage increases.
• Legalizing Marijuana.

Tons of popular ideas fail to get through Congress, mostly due to Republican insanity.

I don't think you get it. Since the Tea Party Congress has become wildly dysfunctional. This is not supposed to be the normal state of affairs.

The Republicans are in charge despite the majority of Americans not wanting them being so. Republicans don't win the popular vote, they win vote distribution game, where votes are ordered that give them an advantage.

 

[bomb]

Just off the top of my head.

• DREAM Act.
• Public Option.
• Gun Control.
• Minimum Wage increases.
• Legalizing Marijuana.

Tons of popular ideas fail to get through Congress, mostly due to Republican insanity.

I don't think you get it. Since the Tea Party Congress has become wildly dysfunctional. This is not supposed to be the normal state of affairs.

Gun control? There are 400million guns in the US. You think Ted Nugent owns them all? That wouldn't pass if Democrats owned every seat in the house and senate. There are millions and millions of democrat gun owners. 0.0% of ever happening.

There cannot be a worse example of widely popular opinion than Gun Control.

 

[PataHikari]

Gun control? There are 400million guns in the US. You think Ted Nugent owns them all? That wouldn't pass if Democrats owned every seat in the house and senate. There are millions and millions of democrat gun owners. 0.0% of ever happening.

3% of Gun owners own half the guns in the nation.

A majority of Americans want stricter gun laws.

Americans want gun control, but it's not going to pass Congress any time soon.

 

[bomb]

3% of Gun owners own half the guns in the nation.

A majority of Americans want stricter gun laws.

Americans want gun control, but it's not going to pass Congress any time soon.

Wow over 3 million people have 17+ guns each. So what? What does that have to do with gun control?

Then here comes the gallup polls. Seen these before. Never accurate. In most of those polls less strict + no difference is higher than more strict. But once they get a more strict winning poll, it's now concrete evidence.

Can you define more strict or gun control? Legislation isn't written on a napkin.

 

[PataHikari]

Can you define more strict or gun control? Legislation isn't written on a napkin.

No because it's just an example of something people want that Congress hasn't passed but it's clear that you aren't actually interested in interacting with reality since actual number and facts just make you double down.

So I'm done talking to you about this.

 

[bomb]

No because it's just an example but it's clear that you aren't actually interested in interacting with reality since actual number and facts just make you double down.

So I'm done talking to you about this.

Actual facts. Lol. A gallup poll isn't a fact. It's only a fact they they did a poll. Remember when Nate Silver had Hillary at a 94% chance of winning due to his polls.

We all want it! Pass it!

Pass what?

Gun Control!

Um. What about Guns?

You know. Control. Pass it!

 

[Rival]

Big business is built on greed and the idea of making as much money as is possible. At best you can only hope for them to operate within whatever set of rules the government sets forth.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Big business is built on greed and the idea of making as much money as is possible. At best you can only hope for them to operate within whatever set of rules the government sets forth.

This pretty much. But you have to have rules, these things aid businesses in driving further and faster.

 

[krazen]

Actual facts. Lol. A gallup poll isn't a fact. It's only a fact they they did a poll. Remember when Nate Silver had Hillary at a 94% chance of winning due to his polls.

We all want it! Pass it!

Pass what?

Gun Control!

Um. What about Guns?

You know. Control. Pass it!

So polls are useless?
I can understand they have built in bias (and a wide variety of verifiable sources need to be well...sourced), but polls useless to find popular opinion we might as well break out the tarot cards whenever we have a discussion to prove our points, or other ways.

*Taps Serra Angel* Boom, take 4 damage thus Charter schools are the solution to our education crisis in the US

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

For a congress that is supposed to be so hard on passing laws that abhorrent monster of a tax reform sure was approved and sanctioned very fast in a horribly amateurish, unprofessional and incompetent way.

Actual facts. Lol. A gallup poll isn't a fact. It's only a fact they they did a poll. Remember when Nate Silver had Hillary at a 94% chance of winning due to his polls.

We all want it! Pass it!

Pass what?

Gun Control!

Um. What about Guns?

You know. Control. Pass it!

Yeah, you get one thing out of every post and move the goals towards that without ever addressing the topic at hand. GTFO with this bulshit or address the subject.
Oh wait, you can't do it.

 

[pottymouth]

Gun control? There are 400million guns in the US. You think Ted Nugent owns them all? That wouldn't pass if Democrats owned every seat in the house and senate. There are millions and millions of democrat gun owners. 0.0% of ever happening.

There cannot be a worse example of widely popular opinion than Gun Control.

I have guns. I want better gun laws and gun control. Pretty much everybody I know that has a gun understands the problem with guns in America and would support reasonable legislation that aims to fix it. The few I know that would never back a gun control reform believed Obama was going to take all their guns away and have apocalypse shelters in their basements. Fox News and the right media do a great job planting fear in their minds so they think "gun control" means taking all guns away, which has never once been a proposal by democratic leaders.

 

[rokkerkory]

Id like to get a hand gun someday for home protection and id expect them to be rigorous with me before i can get one.

 

[pramod]

It's amazing that I see people argue that the only reason Trump won is that Hillary was a horrible candidate. But does anyone seriously believe that a Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, or even John Kasich had any chance of beating Hillary? Let's be real here.

People need to stop the denial and face facts. Trump had an even lower popularity than Hillary, why did he still win? It's obvious people don't like him, but they voted for him anyway.

They voted for him because they liked his stance on immigration. They liked his America-first policies. They liked how he told them (whether it was a lie or not) that he was going to bring coal jobs back to the Midwest. And most of all they loved his no-holds-barred death match with the mainstream media.

 

[bomb]

For a congress that is supposed to be so hard on passing laws that abhorrent monster of a tax reform sure was approved and sanctioned very fast in a horribly amateurish, unprofessional and incompetent way.



Yeah, you get one thing out of every post and move the goals towards that without ever addressing the topic at hand. GTFO with this bulshit or address the subject.
Oh wait, you can't do it.

Trump has done okay. I'm sure he got a wake up call on how the system works real quick.

I'm not a big fan of him but I am financially conservative. The tax reform only helping the rich is such malarkey. "80% goes to the rich." Well maybe because the rich pay 80% of the taxes. Just a thought. It's all relative.

He's done very well against ISIS.

I want companies to stay. I want companies to come back. I want more higher paying jobs. I like that he went to Detroit and told car manufacturers not to move their plants to Mexico or he would tax them more to bring those cars to the US.

Next year, I hope he goes right into infrastructure and stays out of the social issues.

lately, I loved that he kicked slimy Bannon out and buried him with that statement.

 

[shpankey]

It's amazing that I see people argue that the only reason Trump won is that Hillary was a horrible candidate. But does anyone seriously believe that a Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, or even John Kasich had any chance of beating Hillary? Let's be real here.

Yes, that may or may not be true, but do you think he would of won if Obama could have ran again? Setting aside the incumbent factor, Obama would of wiped the floor with him.

I know it's anecdotal and therefore means nothing, but I heard a great many people say they didn't like Trump but was voting for him because they hated her. She has a very large group of people that dislike her, especially in rural areas. (imo of course)

 

[Pomerlaw]

 

[shpankey]

Trickle down economics is so ludicrous. Billionaires save and invest money. You want to stimulate the economy, get more money in the hands of poor people, they can't spend it fast enough. Trickle up economics would definitely work. To be somewhat fair, Trump has at least tried to strike a balance there w/ the tax changes, though lopsided the wrong way round, imo.

 

[PataHikari]

People need to stop the denial and face facts. Trump had an even lower popularity than Hillary, why did he still win?

Because the Electoral Collage is a broken system that lets people lose the popular vote but win the Presidency.

Someone could, technically, become President while getting only 23% of the Popular Vote.

 

[BANGS]

Trickle down economics is so ludicrous. Billionaires save and invest money. You want to stimulate the economy, get more money in the hands of poor people, they can't spend it fast enough. Trickle up economics would definitely work. To be somewhat fair, Trump has at least tried to strike a balance there w/ the tax changes, though lopsided the wrong way round, imo.

Both trickle up AND trickle down are legitimate ways to boost the economy. You can't just make sweeping generalizations to brush off one and not the other. Someone could just as easily say "poor people will just spend the money on illegal drugs" or something... it's all bullshit...

 

[BANGS]

Because the Electoral Collage is a broken system that lets people lose the popular vote but win the Presidency.

Someone could, technically, become President while getting only 23% of the Popular Vote.

That's not broken, it's designed that way for a reason. Every state has it's own culture, it would be ridiculous to just let New York and California decide who is president every time...

 

[PataHikari]

Both trickle up AND trickle down are legitimate ways to boost the economy.

No Trickle Down Economics has been scientifically shown to not be true. It's only pushed by people who want to put more money in the wealthy's pockets.

That's not broken, it's designed that way for a reason. Every state has it's own culture, it would be ridiculous to just let New York and California decide who is president every time...

Yeah it's so much better to how the EC works leading to the middle of nowhere states which have less than a fraction of the population of where people actually live being the ones to decide.

Guess what more Americans live in New York and California. If we "just let New York and California decide who is president every time" that's because, guess what, that's what Americans want.

The fact that someone in Wyoming casting a vote has their vote counted as 53 times more important than someone in California is stupid and undemocratic.

 

[Pomerlaw]

No Trickle Down Economics has been scientifically shown to not be true. It's only pushed by people who want to put more money in the wealthy's pockets.

More than 140 characters. SAD

 

[BANGS]

We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic. Democracy is tyranny of the minority...

 

[David___]

The EC failed the one job it was created for when they made a demagogue like Trump President.

 

[TheSloth]

We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic.

those things are not mutually exclusive.

Democracy is tyranny of the minority...

... wat.

anyhoo, "hooray that we aren't a democracy" is one of the saddest things to come out of this last election cycle.

 

[Atenhaus]

Jesus fuck this thread is a dumpster fire. Sad to see what became of this place.

 

[pramod]

Jesus fuck this thread is a dumpster fire. Sad to see what became of this place.

You're talking about the guy typing in ALL BOLDED CAPS and is allowed to spew his insulting vitriol right?

So polls are useless?
I can understand they have built in bias (and a wide variety of verifiable sources need to be well...sourced), but polls useless to find popular opinion we might as well break out the tarot cards whenever we have a discussion to prove our points, or other ways.

Polls can be useful to gauge the public's sentiment at a moment in time. I don't think they're that accurate though in guiding long term policy.
If Obamacare is so popular, then why did people elect Republicans who said that they all want to get rid of Obamacare? It doesn't make sense.

 

[PataHikari]

You're talking about the guy typing in ALL BOLDED CAPS and is allowed to spew his insulting vitriol right?.

I only did that after half a dozen posts trying to enagage with someone who refused to work in reality and constantly goalpost shifted.

That's a little frustrating

.
If Obamacare is so popular, then why did people elect Republicans who said that they all want to get rid of Obamacare? It doesn't make sense.

Because 2010 had a rather low turn out, which always favors Republicans. And once they had power they immediately put in extreme gerrymandering to ensure that they'd hold on to power.

It's one of the reasons so many Republican congresspeople are so crazy. They've basically been guarenteed to win the general election. So the only risk of them getting unelected is through losing the primary. And Republican Primaries have gone absolutely insane. So they need to keep the throttle down on maximum overnuts or some other lunatic is going to beat them in the Primary.

Of course, the way Gerrymandering is set up makes those seats super vunerable to wave elections. Which makes 2018 very bad for them.

 

[Pomerlaw]

We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic. Democracy is tyranny of the minority...

huh what!?

There are lots of great place you can visit to verify if your statement is true. Chechnya, Syria & NK come to mind...

 

[TheLaughingStock]

The fact that she ran the most successful pediatric AIDS charity in history and that her budget proposal was the only one that was economically feasible put her over the top for most people I know. Remember, she won the popular vote by a very large margin.

For starters, let the 2016 election go. Tens of millions voted for Clinton's opponent, 3rd party or didn't vote at all. Her favorability is in the tank to this day. A reminder for people who (mistakenly) think that's the key to winning. In any event, some Dems keep spinning the 2016 election results as if they showed a majority mandate in their favor. Clearly, a lot of Americans don't agree with you and do not support you. Should be self-evident.

What do you mean by economically feasible? Clinton proposals during the campaign weren't very good. Moreover, they suggested she was being fed bad information by her econ team.

For example, in response to a media question for both presidential hopefuls:

The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget says Secretary Clinton, under your plan, debt would rise to 86 percent of GDP over the next 10 years," Wallace said Oct. 19, 2016. "Mr. Trump, under your plan, they say it would rise to 105 percent of GDP over the next 10 years. Question is -- why are both of you ignoring this problem?

Mentally unstable idiot replied:

...the basis of the question was wrong because he will "create tremendous jobs."

Policy wonk replied:

...she pays for everything she proposes, primarily by increasing taxes for the wealthiest Americans.
"What I have put forward does not add a penny to the debt," Clinton said.

Even if you were skeptical in 2016, you couldn't possibly be unsure in 2018 that Wallace didn't have a clue of what he was talking about with respect to there being a debt problem. Edit: We know this based off how debt has risen since Trump has taken office, the interest rate burden, and overall performance of the economy, market demand for debt, etc.

Yet we can see the mentally ill President correctly dismissing the question notwithstanding his boasts about jobs. Correspondingly, Clinton wastes the public's time answering the question. If Clinton can't handle someone who isn't all there upstairs, then why should she have won the Democratic nomination let alone be President? Horrible candidate.

 

[Kimawolf]

Gun control? There are 400million guns in the US. You think Ted Nugent owns them all? That wouldn't pass if Democrats owned every seat in the house and senate. There are millions and millions of democrat gun owners. 0.0% of ever happening.

There cannot be a worse example of widely popular opinion than Gun Control.

Gun control/debate perhaps is not the hill to die on.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/09/22/study-guns-owners-violence/90858752/

3% of Americans own 50 percent of the guns in the country. so most Americans do NOT own guns and most do want gun control. the issue comes in describing what that gun control is because some people seem to think Gun control = "evil liberals kicking down your door and taking your guns!" which is nonsense. I think everyone, most everyone, would think you need at the LEAST a background check before having a gun, you shouldn't be convicted of a violent crime, you shouldn't be a convicted or accused stalker/abuser. But even those don't pass because of false narratives of "slippery slopes. There should be gun control, there should be gun regulation, the 2nd amendment only says you can own one. no reason we shouldn't require ID at the LEAST like most "guns rights" folks with voting. but many states you don't even have to get permits anymore. You can just buy a gun. (Oh and before you call me a gun hater, check my post history. I own several guns, a shotgun, even a flame thrower.)


But Trump he did what many scare tactic types do. He played on people's over-exaggerated fears (and being anti-Obama) and it got him elected. I admit his first year he's done what he said in some instances; basically reversing ANYTHING Obama did,. But that's really about it. He spent his first year consumed in scandal and investigation, and seems to be on track to top it his second year.

 

[Super Mario]

Trickle down economics is so ludicrous. Billionaires save and invest money. You want to stimulate the economy, get more money in the hands of poor people, they can't spend it fast enough. Trickle up economics would definitely work. To be somewhat fair, Trump has at least tried to strike a balance there w/ the tax changes, though lopsided the wrong way round, imo.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/apple-tech-companies-to-bring-back-400-billion.html

Apple, tech companies to bring back $400 billion in overseas cash to the US: Estimate

I know the narrative is that these tax breaks are for the millionays and billionays to laugh on their new yachts as they guzzle caviar, and maybe a few do that.

Beyond the partisan politics, there is more to this issue that very well can contribute positive impact to this economy. If you give a millionaire an extra million, ate they going to invest it all in jobs? Probably not. Don't use that to fall for Democratic speaking points to ignore the fact that lower tax rates DO contribute to favorable business conditions in the US. There's a reason why these companies put their profits overseas. There's a reason why we outsource so many jobs.

 

[shpankey]

Oh I like the corporate tax cut all the way. We needed to be competitive there. And I like the personal cuts also, but would have just preferred a little more on the lower-middle class and a little less on the billionaire class, is all I was meaning.

I'm worried about the 100k range, married w/ 3 children, if I'm understanding it correctly, they will pay more, not less. Which doesn't seem right to me. Though I don't have a great understanding of it all yet. But a sole income in that scenario, could claim 2 exemptions per dependent before, plus some more for being under 160k (I think that was the number). So losing the personal exemptions is going to hurt sole income middle class families. But I'm hoping I read it all wrong.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Trump doesn't even start his official work day until 11am.

 

[GAFDooMsDaY]

Trump doesn't even start his official work day until 11am.

that depends on if he plans on playing golf that day

 

[BANGS]

huh what!?

There are lots of great place you can visit to verify if your statement is true. Chechnya, Syria & NK come to mind...

Logic dictates there is no reason to "verify" my factual statement. Democracy is majority vote wins, therefor tyranny of the minority. If such simple logic is such a mind blowing concept to some of you, perhaps you should reevaluate your world views...