DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
is PS5 Pro going to be more than 600 dollars / £550 pounds?
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Current Xbox and PS5 Not getting a price cut would appear to be the bigger thing in my mind. I believe consoles have sold the most in the mid-late stages when price drops are introduced.
At this rate, there won't be a price cut before new systems launch.
RE:
DenchDeckard
's question - how can the PS5 Pro not be more than $600/£550 when the PS5 is £480?
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Current Xbox and PS5 Not getting a price cut would appear to be the bigger thing in my mind. I believe consoles have sold the most in the mid-late stages when price drops are introduced.
At this rate, there won't be a price cut before new systems launch.
RE:
I can't see how it will sell well at £650 / $700 dollars or above but who knows.
TheRedRiders
Member
I can't cite any specific videos at the moment, but you can search for "ASML" on Youtube or Google. They're the company who design and manufacture the machines which are used to create the processors at TSMC and it's where the real magic happens.
The machines use light to etch in the transistors on a fab, this process is called "lithography" and ASML have been pioneers in this. As the nodes start to get smaller and smaller, these machines need to be more and more precise, and in their latest machines, they use a technology called "EUV" which stands for extreme ultra-violet lithography, this results in a beam of light which is I think around 30 times thinner than the visible light we can see around us.
What TSMC are doing is great but the truth is they're heavily dependent on ASML's machines and engineering and physics breakthroughs. Their latest machine retails for around 350 million and I'm pretty sure Intel have purchased a few of them. To manufacture each machine ASML relies on a 100+ suppliers, all of whom bring their bleeding edge technology into ASML's machine.
Here's a great article :
ASML: A Monopoly on Magic
The $300 billion Dutch firm is the most important company you’ve never heard of.
thegeneralist.substack.com
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I guess it remains to be seen how Sony justify it to consumers, but I would have thought that if people are prepared to pay £650, they'd pay £700.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I google mapped ASML's headquarters wondering what sort of mega structure state of the art HQ i'd find for such a globally important company and found this lol https://maps.app.goo.gl/jaMq575vXREY3dsP7 (go sat view and zoom in) thought some of you would get a kick out of it, otherwise its looks pretty nondescript and average looking
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TheRedRiders
Member
Haha - I'm thinking they're being discrete on purpose. The company is the Netherlands biggest asset, and one of the biggest assets in the whole technological world for that matter.
The USA keeps very close eye on them. They've imposed restrictions on ASML which means the company cannot sell its machines to China, and every person who the company hires has to go through an intense screening process and if you're of Chinese, North Korean (or any other country which might be deemed an enemy or a threat to the USA) then you're not getting hired.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
jesus at this part of the process in creating the machines to make processors...
"Let us start with light. You cannot simply buy an EUV bulb and switch it on. Indeed, EUV does not naturally occur on our planet, meaning you have to create it, convince it to emerge. One way to get it is to turn tin into hot plasma. When in this state, the plasma emits EUV light.
This is far from simple. It is difficult to turn tin into plasma, requiring raising its temperature to 500,000 degrees – hotter than the sun. Even in that state, harvesting enough EUV for photolithography is difficult. ASML uses a precision laser developed with a specialty provider, Trumpf, to create the extraordinary heat required.
It took a decade and considerable investment for Trumpf to create a suitable laser at ASML’s behest. Not only must the laser be extremely powerful, it must be fast and accurate, capable of hitting a minuscule ball of tin traveling 200 miles per hour through a vacuum. The laser must, in fact, hit each speck of tin twice to successfully turn it into plasma. To get enough EUV, this process occurs 50,000 times per second. A system of fans turning 1,000 times per second keeps the contraption from overheating as it anoints three million microscopic suns a minute"
"Let us start with light. You cannot simply buy an EUV bulb and switch it on. Indeed, EUV does not naturally occur on our planet, meaning you have to create it, convince it to emerge. One way to get it is to turn tin into hot plasma. When in this state, the plasma emits EUV light.
This is far from simple. It is difficult to turn tin into plasma, requiring raising its temperature to 500,000 degrees – hotter than the sun. Even in that state, harvesting enough EUV for photolithography is difficult. ASML uses a precision laser developed with a specialty provider, Trumpf, to create the extraordinary heat required.
It took a decade and considerable investment for Trumpf to create a suitable laser at ASML’s behest. Not only must the laser be extremely powerful, it must be fast and accurate, capable of hitting a minuscule ball of tin traveling 200 miles per hour through a vacuum. The laser must, in fact, hit each speck of tin twice to successfully turn it into plasma. To get enough EUV, this process occurs 50,000 times per second. A system of fans turning 1,000 times per second keeps the contraption from overheating as it anoints three million microscopic suns a minute"
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Completely agree with the US's stance on this tbf, authoritarian countries with no respect for humanity should not be getting access to any technology from the West
PeteBull
Gold Member
Super unlikely knowning whats inside from the leaks (basically downclocked rx 7800xt and overclocked same cpu thats in base ps5).
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Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Lead to the chip shortage. Took like 2 years for the early adopters to get their consoles instead of a few months. It also extended cross gen titles which is why GT7 changed to cross gen. It’ll be a long gen.
willothedog
Member
TSMC has plans in place to nuke their hardware if this ever happens.
In case China invades Taiwan, ASML and TSMC have a plan
ASML and TSMC have a plan to remotely disable the former's extreme ultraviolet lithography machines in case China invades Taiwan.
www.phonearena.com
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
It's mad how within a lifetime things have changed. My Dad could reasonably expect to repair anything that broke with a soldering iron if you could source the parts.
Now, it's impossible for the average person to even comprehend how things are assembled.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
ASML is the real bottleneck, much more so than finding the logistics of the manufacturing. Ultimately ASML has the real secrets to lithography and has the foundries’ balls in their hands, including TSMC. Without their machine you’re fucked.
Intel acquired all of ASML’s production of high NA EUV this year so that’s at least coming to USA or their German foundry.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
I wonder what will happen when the US gets their factories up (if ever). If china would then try and invade taiwan they would blow up the factories meaning the US has a monopoly on that shit now. Everyone will have to bow down to them as they tell Russia and China to fuck off.
Haint
Member
I can't cite any specific videos at the moment, but you can search for "ASML" on Youtube or Google. They're the company who design and manufacture the machines which are used to create the processors at TSMC and it's where the real magic happens.
The machines use light to etch in the transistors on a fab, this process is called "lithography" and ASML have been pioneers in this. As the nodes start to get smaller and smaller, these machines need to be more and more precise, and in their latest machines, they use a technology called "EUV" which stands for extreme ultra-violet lithography, this results in a beam of light which is I think around 30 times thinner than the visible light we can see around us.
What TSMC are doing is great but the truth is they're heavily dependent on ASML's machines and engineering and physics breakthroughs. Their latest machine retails for around 350 million and I'm pretty sure Intel have purchased a few of them. To manufacture each machine ASML relies on a 100+ suppliers, all of whom bring their bleeding edge technology into ASML's machine.
Here's a great article :
ASML: A Monopoly on Magic
The $300 billion Dutch firm is the most important company you’ve never heard of.
If it were as simple as buying ASML machines, Intel, Glofo, and Samsung would have never been lapped by TSMC and effectively rendered obsolete.
The US will 1000% glass TSMC's Taiwan facilities before China even stepped off their ships, they will never rely on a remote software kill switch. It's literally the most valuable installment on the face of the earth, quadrupely so with the looming potential of AI.
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Trogdor1123
Member
And the consoles will cost more at the end, not less
both PS5 and Xbox were having some of their best console sales ever in the first couple years. I’m not really sure how many additional unites they would have been able to sell.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
People were still scrambling for consoles for years.
Wooxsvan
Member
that and the generations will be longer. that part could be good or bad depending on your opinion
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
If we’re lucky!
Maybe by 10 years in devs will start actually making games designed to use them properly.
I know that was the narrative. But I feel like everyone that really wanted one in the first year got one. And we are 4 years in and sales are down substantially this year.People were still scrambling for consoles for years.
Kind of think the initial draw for them selling out for so long was because the whole game industry was getting boosted from covid.
Obviously this is just my thoughts and don’t we will never really know.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
People wouldn’t be all over the hot stock app for ps5 and series x if it was just a narrative.
The series s was largely available the whole time and didn’t sell out cause of the covid lockdowns.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
wishful thinking, there are and have been Winnie the poo agents working there...TSMC has plans in place to nuke their hardware if this ever happens.
In case China invades Taiwan, ASML and TSMC have a plan
ASML and TSMC have a plan to remotely disable the former's extreme ultraviolet lithography machines in case China invades Taiwan.
