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[gutter_trash]

Tulsi was ready to jump in the Trump cabinet without blinking, it was her opportunity to jump with the Republicans. However she seems to get a pass from the same people that are rightfully criticizing Roby Moore for working with Corey Lewinsky.

you mean Mook

Mook is a moron

 

[Back-In-Black]

I'm not a fan of Tulsi but what is the problem here? He is the political leader within Syria if we wish to negotiate an end to the Civil War you kind of have to talk to him.

 

[cDNA]

you mean Mook

Mook is a moron

Sorry Autocorrect

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I'm not a fan of Tulsi but what is the problem here? He is the political leader within Syria if we wish to negotiate an end to the Civil War you kind of have to talk to him.

Instead of overthrowing Saddam, we should have promoted propaganda for Saddam.

 

[metalslimer]

you mean Mook

Mook is a moron

That turned out to not be true

 

[Rentahamster]

Let's take a trip back in time and compare yourself to Republicans in 2002 to see if you are making similar arguments, and your feelings on congresspersons who may want to do investigations on their own accord.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/27/democrats.iraq.trip/

Reps. David Bonior, D-Michigan, Jim McDermott, D-Washington, and Michael Thompson, D-California, landed in Baghdad with a delegation of humanitarian workers and others.

"I don't want us to use war as the first option ever. I think it should always be the last option, and we should go the extra mile, if we can reach a peaceful resolve," Thompson on CNN's "Wolf Blitzer Reports."

"We continue to rattle sabers and pound war drums, and yet we have very little idea of challenges we could face afterwards," Bonior said in a statement. "What happens to our standing on the world stage if we act alone?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/30/w...s-congressman-says-bush-would-mislead-us.html

One of the congressmen, Representative Jim McDermott of Washington State, said today that he thought President Bush was willing ''to mislead the American people'' about whether the war was needed and that the administration had gone back and forth between citing supposed links between Iraq and the terrorist network Al Qaeda and Iraq's supposed attempts to obtain weapons of mass destruction.

Senator Don Nickles, Republican of Oklahoma, who is the party's assistant leader in the Senate, said Mr. McDermott and Mr. Bonior ''both sound somewhat like spokespersons for the Iraqi government.'' He said it was ''counterproductive'' to undermine Mr. Bush when he was seeking support from allies.

Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, was gentler. ''As long as they're careful what they say and what they do, then I think it's fine,'' he said. ''But all of us should keep in mind that foreign affairs, national security issues, etc., are generally handled by the executive branch, with the advice and consent of the Congress.''

Speaking of the administration, Mr. McDermott said, ''I believe that sometimes they give out misinformation.'' Then he added: ''It would not surprise me if they came up with some information that is not provable, and they've shifted. First they said it was Al Qaeda, then they said it was weapons of mass destruction. Now they're going back and saying it's Al Qaeda again.''

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ry-behind-mcdermotts-controversial-iraq-trip/

This story to give context about the complexities of paying for trips and who may or may not be involved

The alleged Saddam Hussein spy money that paid for Rep. Jim McDermott’s trip to Iraq in 2002 came after a stranger called a Seattle anti-war activist and offered to finance the prewar visit.

The Seattle activist, Bert Sacks, said he was making arrangements for the trip at McDermott’s request when he got the call out of the blue from a man who identified himself as a concerned Iraqi-American.

Federal prosecutors believe the money was illegally funneled from Saddam’s intelligence officials, through an unnamed intermediary, and to a Dearborn Heights, Mich., activist named Muthanna Al-Hanooti.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-baghdad-democrats/article/3017
(How a right wing magazine viewed the trip)


http://hotair.com/archives/2015/03/11/a-brief-modern-history-on-congressional-treason/

(How a conservative website interprets the history of congressional "treason".

 

[Dopus]

Should Al Gore have praised Saddam as everyone in Iraq wanting him to be dictator and how every rebel against Saddam was a rapist.

Should we have done that.

Where is she praising him?

Which group or militias are moderate ones? Do tell, because as far as I know they are all fighting side by side for the moment.

Do you really want this to turn into another Libya?

 

[jmood88]

She is a "progressive icon" though so she is safe.

Even though she only switched to democrat because republicans can't win shit in Hawaii.

 

[SolarPowered]

I'm not a fan of Tulsi but what is the problem here? He is the political leader within Syria if we wish to negotiate an end to the Civil War you kind of have to talk to him.

something something bernie something something far left something something hindu nationalism

Most of that region is a clusterfuck and being led around by Saudi Arabia of all countries doesn't sound preferable if you ask me. I dislike Assad, but I'd rather talk to him than invade or try setting up no-fly zones when the 2nd or 3rd most powerful military in the world is already flying over Syria's skies.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Assad is often popular among Muslim haters because he's "secular." Hindu nationalists hate Muslims and Gabbard is probably a Hindu nationalist based on her love for Modi and her bizarre other behavior.

That's a painful stretch, but whatever.

What does your user name mean?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Where is she praising him?

Which group or militias are moderate ones? Do tell, because as far as I know they are all fighting side by side for the moment.

Do you really want this to turn into another Libya?

I mean, that would actually be a lot better than what Syria became!

Praising him as "all the Syrians I met support Assad" is praise.

And propaganda.

 

[Meowster]

Hopefully one of those Justice Dems primary her first if they go through with it.

 

[Dopus]

I mean, that would actually be a lot better than what Syria became!

Praising him as "all the Syrians I met support Assad" is praise.

And propaganda.

Libya is a failed state run by multiple factions and militias. Human trafficking galore with refugees trying to pass from the East and Southern nations to make their way into Europe. Western Syria at the very least has a semblance of stability.

As much of a terrible human being Bashar al-Assad is, in order for peace to succeed it cannot come out of a total failed state that is run by multiple factions and multiple militias all fighting for control.

"Whatever you think about President Assad, the fact is that he is the president of Syria, In order for any possibility of a viable peace agreement to occur, there has to be a conversation with him."

And it's also hilarious how you mention Saddam Hussein. The guy the CIA helped to seize power in 1963 and later invaded and occupied based on forged and falsified evidence.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Libya is a failed state run by multiple factions and militias. Human trafficking galore with refugees trying to pass from the East and Southern nations to make their way into Europe. Western Syria at the very least has a semblance of stability.

As much of a terrible human being Bashar al-Assad is, in order for peace to succeed it cannot come out of a total failed state that is run by multiple factions and multiple militias all fighting for control.

Then maybe she should say that instead of whitewashing his atrocities.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Then maybe she should say that instead of whitewashing his atrocities.

Exactly. There are many ways to go about making this argument.

She chose literally the dumbest way possible

 

[jtb]

Hopefully one of those Justice Dems primary her first if they go through with it.

lol

good one!

Let's take a trip back in time and compare yourself to Republicans in 2002 to see if you are making similar arguments, and your feelings on congresspersons who may want to do investigations on their own accord.

what's the point of this comparison? are you suggesting that, to continue the Iraq comparison, Assad doesn't have WMDs and hasn't used them against his people? or that he hasn't committed countless human rights abuses?

 

[Pizza con salsiccia]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Oh yeah, baby, Hindu Nationalism is here in the United States government and it wants to let you know that it's just as bad as Christian and Islamic extremism.

Assad has killed 500k people or so and is responsible for a refugee crisis that has brought fascism back to Europe. But Assad is more creative than just mass murder.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...n-syria-and-then-rejec-ted-by-washington.html



https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/824371557141200897

(Assad's forces are made up largely of the terror group Hezbollah)



https://twitter.com/joshrogin/status/824369900017827845



http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/tulsi-gabbard-secret-syria-trip-233762

Nice.

Someone primary this dumb motherfucker.

To be a war criminal, you have to be accused of being one by the proper authorities.

According to International Law, President Bachar al-Assad is not a criminal of war.

Thread title is false and thus misleading.

 

[Coriolanus]

Being an Assad propagandist on TV is not about purity, it's common sense.

You think being alarmed at someone making hysterical claims on behalf of Bashar Al Assad is playing into a "purity test"?

And yet she's not entirely wrong: he will play some part in the solution, whether we like it or not. Consorting with monsters is part of the cost of being and staying a superpower.

Push comes to shove, you should gladly accept another one of hers over a republican any day of the week. Stop this purity nonsense.

 

[Back-In-Black]

Instead of overthrowing Saddam, we should have promoted propaganda for Saddam.

You realize one of the worst things the Bush Administration did post-invasion was the entire dissolution of the Baathist Party? I guess they were right to stick to their guns and not negotiate with anyone ever associated with Saddam.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

To be a war criminal, you have to be accused of being one by the proper authorities.

According to International Law, President Bachar al-Assad is not a criminal of war.

Thread title is false and thus misleading.

You are not earning your rubles today, duder.

You realize one of the worst things the Bush Administration did post-invasion was the entire dissolution of the Baathist Party? I guess they were right to stick to their guns and not negotiate with anyone ever associated with Saddam.

Should we have said "everyone in Iraq supports Saddam" on national TV?

Your post is confusing and doesn't appear to be a response to anything I've said actually.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I'm not a fan of Tulsi but what is the problem here? He is the political leader within Syria if we wish to negotiate an end to the Civil War you kind of have to talk to him.

She won't tell her constituents who arranged or paid for the trip. It's a problem.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

And yet she's not entirely wrong: he will play some part in the solution, whether we like it or not. Consorting with monsters is part of the cost of being and staying a superpower.

Push comes to shove, you should gladly accept another one of hers over a republican any day of the week. Stop this purity nonsense.

She's in a D+21 district in Hawaii. She's not a red state senator. Key difference.

 

[Coriolanus]

She's in a D+21 district in Hawaii. She's not a red state senator. Key difference.

Are you saying you wanna primary her over her consorting with monsters just because she's in a safe position?

 

[jfkgoblue]

Even though she only switched to democrat because republicans can't win shit in Hawaii.

But she supported Bernie!

/s

Are you saying you wanna primary her just because she's in a safe position?

The argument is that she is one of the most conservative Democrats while being in one of the safest seats. Someone with her seat should theoretically be one of the most liberal congressman there is.

 

[cDNA]

To be a war criminal, you have to be accused of being one by the proper authorities.

According to International Law, President Bachar al-Assad is not a criminal of war.

Thread title is false and thus misleading.

He just agreed to give chemicals weapons he denied to have, just after a chemical attack was done against civilians in Syria. Clearly it was just a coincidence.

 

[Pizza con salsiccia]

You are not earning your rubles today, duder.

Part of my job involves criminals of war. That part of my job makes me look more than I'd like to at international law.

According to international law, al-Assad is not a war criminal.

Sorry.

Not saying he's not responsible for the mess that his wonderful country has become.

Just reminding you of a simple technicality.

Otherwise, well... you'd have a nice list composed of Sarkozy, Hollande, Bush Jr, Obama, Blair, Brown, Putin...

 

[Cyclical]

Why is it bad to talk to people, or engage an opposing viewpoint?

 

[ShironRedshift]

Tulsi was ready to jump in the Trump cabinet without blinking, it was her opportunity to jump with the Republicans. However she seems to get a pass from the same people that are rightfully criticizing Roby Mook for working with Corey Lewinsky.

Indeed. Wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

Giving some stupid speech: OMG, what a monster! Get 'im!
Cozzying up to Assad: Eh, whatever. And just ignore the propoganda talking points and refusal to criticize Assad in any way. I'm sure those are all just complet coincidences! Nothing to see here!

Le sigh...

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

And yet she's not entirely wrong: he will play some part in the solution, whether we like it or not. Consorting with monsters is part of the cost of being and staying a superpower.

Push comes to shove, you should gladly accept another one of hers over a republican any day of the week. Stop this purity nonsense.

Then be honest instead of whitewashing Assad. Also, if she's the best they can do in a D+20 district, then this country must be a lot more conservative than liberals think.

 

[cDNA]

Why is it bad to talk to people, or engage an opposing viewpoint?

Do you favor to talk with ISIS too?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Are you saying you wanna primary her just because she's in a safe position?

Uh, yes, if she's not representing her district adequately.

Do you not understand the difference between primarying a centrist Democrat in a safe seat vs a red seat?

 

[faisal233]

Tulsi is garbage. Probably discussed this with Trump in their meeting.

 

[Coriolanus]

Then be honest instead of whitewashing Assad. Also, if she's the best they can do in a D+20 district, then this country must be a lot more conservative than liberals think.

Most of the country has a favorable view on torture. Of goddamn course it is a fuckload more conservative than liberals think.

Uh, yes, if she's not representing her district adequately.

Do you not understand the difference between primarying a centrist Democrat in a safe seat vs a red seat?

Do you have evidence that her district is unhappy with her?

 

[Nikodemos]

Libya is a failed state run by multiple factions and militias. Human trafficking galore with refugees trying to pass from the East and Southern nations to make their way into Europe. Western Syria at the very least has a semblance of stability.

Funny how Lybians are very few in number among boat people to Europe, despite their country being described in Western media as a second Somalia. Whereas 'stable' Syria keeps dumping immigrants into European states (with the tacit approval of Erdogoon, whose security forces 'occasionally' 'overlook' some people).

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Most of the country has a favorable view on torture. Of goddamn course it is a fuckload more conservative than liberals think.

Then Justice Dems is a stupid idea.

 

[Rentahamster]

what's the point of this comparison? are you suggesting that, to continue the Iraq comparison, Assad doesn't have WMDs and hasn't used them against his people? or that he hasn't committed countless human rights abuses?

I'm suggesting that things aren't always so black and white, and that one needs to keep open the possibility that things aren't always what they appear, and could possibly look very different depending on what side you are on.


Am I suggesting that Assad hasn't committed human rights abuses? What? lol don't be ridiculous. Am I defending Saddam Hussein? Jeez.

 

[Gnome Scat]

I support her stance to not arm rebels in the region but I think she's going much too far here, you're a congress woman in Hawaii, not a diplomat. I know the Trump Administration is gonna do jack but you can't just do this stuff on your own accord.

 

[Dopus]

Funny how Lybians are very few in number among boat people to Europe, despite their country being described in Western media as a second Somalia. Whereas 'stable' Syria keeps dumping immigrants into European states (with the tacit approval of Erdogoon, whose security forces 'occasionally' 'overlook' some people).

You'll note I said Western Syria.

And the trafficking is of mostly Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalis and the Sudanese.

Libya isn't a functioning state anymore, moreover the unrest hasn't gone on for nearly as long as it did in Syria where there was a full blown civil war which continues to this day and the rise of ISIS. ISIS didn't have an active role in Libya, they had small numbers there and were ousted relatively quickly.

 

[Coriolanus]

Then Justice Dems is a stupid idea.

Not for them. For them it is absolutely the ideal time to make that kinda move.

For the old guard? Yarp. No doubt about that.

 

[Pizza con salsiccia]

He just agreed to give chemicals weapons he denied to have, just after a chemical attack was done against civilians in Syria. Clearly it was just a coincidence.

No, they always denied their use. Does my country having chemical weapons (France, yes we do maintain a nice stock) make our president(s) war criminals?

If I'm not mistaken, the only entity in Syria that has been officially accused of having used chemical weapons is called the Islamic State in Syria and the Levant.
Reports by UN investigators in other cases said they could not pinpoint exactly who was responsible for the documented cases (hint: highly likely to be Government-allied sides, but al-Assad's name stayed clear in this case as well).

edit: and I'll stop derailing the thread with this, as I doubt the error in the title will be fixed.

 

[faisal233]

I support her stance to not arm rebels in the region but I think she's going much too far here, you're a congress woman in Hawaii, not a diplomat. I know the Trump Administration is gonna do jack but you can't just do this stuff on your own accord.

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ard-says-we-cant-let-divisiveness-destroy-our

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) vowed to work with Donald Trump on the issues that matter to the American people, following a meeting between the two Monday at Trump Tower.

 

[ShironRedshift]

Are you saying you wanna primary her over her consorting with monsters just because she's in a safe position?

No, because she's a wolf in sheep's clothing and the only reason she's a D to begin with is because she has no chance as an R in Hawaii and because on top of cozying up to people like Assad, she's a complete Islamophobic among other things. You know, the type of stuff Cenk apparently wants us to primary fellow D's over to make sure we actually get the best people representing us possible and not become complacent with mediocre representatives. Or does that only count for his arbitrarily chosen purity tests of dark money and everything else is just fine as long as you have a D by your name or suck up to the right people? Does this type of idea truly have merit or not?

 

[Gnome Scat]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ard-says-we-cant-let-divisiveness-destroy-our

Oh.

 

[metalslimer]

lol so what's the point of the justice dems if not to go after despicable pieces of shit. It's even better that she's in a safe district.

 

[Cyclical]

Do you favor to talk with ISIS too?

I mean, hell, if it could result in some reconciliation and avoid future war and strife - sure. That's one harsh example, though, haha.

Unless you're talking about furthering the opposing viewpoints goals - which wouldn't make sense - I don't see how change happens or perspectives broaden without some healthy discourse.

 

[Coriolanus]

No, because she's a wolf in sheep's clothing and the only reason she's a D to begin with is because she has no chance as an R in Hawaii and because on top of cozying up to people like Assad, she's a complete Islamophobic among other things. You know, the type of stuff Cenk apparently wants us to primary fellow D's over to make sure we actually get the best people representing us possible and not become complacent with mediocre representatives. Or does that only count for his arbitrarily chosen purity tests of dark money and everything else is just fine as long as you have a D by your name or suck up to the right people? Does this type of idea truly have merit or not?

None whatsoever. I don't give a fuck whoever wins and what methods they use so long as they got a D besides their name and win.

 

[jtb]

I'm suggesting that things aren't always so black and white, and that one needs to keep open the possibility that things aren't always what they appear, and could possibly look very different depending on what side you are on.


Am I suggesting that Assad hasn't committed human rights abuses? What? lol don't be ridiculous. Am I defending Saddam Hussein? Jeez.

No, but Tulsi Gabbard is.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Do you have evidence that her district is unhappy with her?

Did I say that they were? I said if for a reason. There is reason enough to primary her and I suspect she will be (though more for her ostensible support of Trump than anything).

You're being purposefully obtuse in an attempt to turn "purity tests" back on people who have spoken out against them without actually understanding anything about why they think some purity tests for centrist Democrats in red states are a bad idea.

 

[Rentahamster]

No, but Tulsi Gabbard is.

Can you direct me to a quote by her that suggests this please?

 

[Coriolanus]

Did I say that they were? I said if for a reason. There is reason enough to primary her and I suspect she will be (though more for her ostensible support of Trump than anything).

You're being purposefully obtuse.

Any evidence that she isn't representing her district adequately would be reflected in her electorate's opinion of her. If it remains solidly positive, there is no reason. Until your suspicion is confirmed by data, you're just trying to promote your silly purity test for no clear gain.

I am being pragmatic. You, however, are on a crusade.