CrocMother
Banned
I really wish that coup had been successful.
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Turkey arrests/kidnaps Enes Kanter's father.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
CrocMother
Banned
Iran seems pretty liberal in comparison to most southwest asian countries. I'd rather the US be allies with Iran than Turkey.
VendettaRed07
Member
I don't think I believe at this point there was ever even a real coup that aimed to be successful.
Just an excuse to help Erdogan to grab more power and play the victim.
Who the hell stages a coup when the guy you are trying to overthrow is outside of the country at the time.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
It was never even proven that he incited a coup. The defectors were Gulenists but John Kerry told Erdogan to come back with actual evidence of conspiracy from abroad if he wanted extradition and he never did.
Fake coups shouldn't end up with people dead. The goal was to A) intercept the airplane and destroy it or B) assassinate him on the tarmac.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It was a legit coup but it appears to have been one haphazardly committed out of desperation. It was incompetent and the worst possible outcome, giving Erdogan the narrative he needed to consolidate power.
michaelius
Banned
Isn't Gulen hardcore Islamist just like Erdogan who worked together with him before they become enemies? I'm kinda confused how did he inspire human rights movement ?
CrocMother
Banned
Spoiled Milk
Banned
In dictatorships, you usually cull people that become threats to your power because of their own popularity. Gulen as a symbol of human rights is really Gulen as an outlet for Erdogan detractors.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You don't have to know anything about Guelen, innocent people are getting arrested and held w/o due process. Making it about Guelen is just deflection.
ShironRedshift
Member
This is insanity. Turkey's going down a very dark path, and if Erdogan is making plays like this I'm not sure what exactly would be off-limits for him at this point. Something definitely needs to be done about Erdogan's regime and he needs to be stop being enabled and be de-legitimized, and the message be sent loud and clear that the path he's leading Turkey down is in no way alright.
...But of course, I fully expect Trump to say absolutely nothing about this. Instead, if anything, he'll ignore it and find some unrelated way to heap praise onto Erdogan.
...But of course, I fully expect Trump to say absolutely nothing about this. Instead, if anything, he'll ignore it and find some unrelated way to heap praise onto Erdogan.
Well, the Turks had their chance (if the counting was legit).
There are like 20 million Kurds living on Turkey alone that isn't a minority.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
What coup? It was all a play by Erdogan, otherwise it would've been the most stupidly planned coup in history.
yeah I suppose, I have no intention of derailing the thread from the actual issue
Sort of. Gülen is hardly an innocent old man and the Gülen movement has been criticized a lot in the past, see e.g. this German Zeit article about it. Gülen is not a great poster child.
That said, it is irrelevant in this context because Erdogan is clearly taking these actions not because of legitimate concerns, but to silence critics and further solidify his power base.
No. You wish that Turkey had a reasonable and stable government. That is very different from hoping that the coup would be successful. The way people paint the military rule in a good light is very problematic given Turkey's history.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Punishing family members for someone escaping the regime's grasp is very North Korea.
The Greek Freak
Member
It was fake as fuck considering most of the people arrested for it thought it was a military exercise (including the soldiers).
Was a purge wrapped in a fake coup attempt.
Gülen is much older, much stronger threat for Turkey (at least he was). I don't know how he is seen in western countries so i wanted to express my opinions.
Gülen and Erdogan are the same threat. They have been allies for decades. They had a falling out some years ago (probably because of power and/or money distrubution.)
Erdoğan worked for years to help place Gülen's people in military, justice and goverment places.
Erdoğan says he's been deceived (his own words)
If coup would have been successful i really believe we would be in worse situation.
(it is clear now it was not going to be)
There are lots of things going wrong in Turkey at the moment and sadly Erdoğan is not the only thing. (most important is there is not a competent and qualified opposition party)
As a turkish citizen i don't have much hope for my countries future. Hope i'm wrong
Gülen and Erdogan are the same threat. They have been allies for decades. They had a falling out some years ago (probably because of power and/or money distrubution.)
Erdoğan worked for years to help place Gülen's people in military, justice and goverment places.
Erdoğan says he's been deceived (his own words)
If coup would have been successful i really believe we would be in worse situation.
(it is clear now it was not going to be)
There are lots of things going wrong in Turkey at the moment and sadly Erdoğan is not the only thing. (most important is there is not a competent and qualified opposition party)
As a turkish citizen i don't have much hope for my countries future. Hope i'm wrong
FullMetalx117
Member
This is crazy...isn't he distant from his family anyways? What a terrible situation to be in
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
The poster you replied to talked about hardcore Islamists, not Muslims. It should be blatantly clear to everyone that no, you can't be an Islamist and pro-human rights.
shawnbuddy
Member
Trump is kissing Erdogan's ass, does that help?
Also, unless everyone in the region suddenly stops hating and killing Kurds, an independent Kurdistan might be the only solution.
Also very American, Burmese, Chinese, Indian, Israeli, Pakistani, Russian, Venezuelan, and I'm sure a host of others. Unfortunately business as usual for much of the world.
Why is gulen despicable?
Stereogatari
Banned
Hahahah. Is this a joke? Can heterosexual couples freely hold hands and kiss in Iran? Is alcohol legal in Iran? Mixed sex clubs dancing? Haha.
The number that care about establishing a Kurdistan is a minority. Bulk of that 20 million are comfortable in their Turkish national identity. The city with the largest Kurdish population in the World is Istanbul. Plenty of mixed marriages as well so how many of that 20 million is true when you consider all that?
Because he runs a cult that brainwashes followers to nigh on worship him and do exactly what he says without question. For decades the cult has clandestinely infiltrated the state apparatus of Turkey with the aim of taking control and placing Gülen as an ayatollah equivelant. They are Sharia nutters in suits, worse than Erdogan and the AKP.
They have such a sophisticated PR in America to make it look like they are this progressive type thing. But they aren't. They ruined lives of students in the Turkish Army by having their officers bully and negate the progress of students on merit and instead favoured their own.
Gülen is much older, much stronger threat for Turkey (at least he was). I don't know how he is seen in western countries so i wanted to express my opinions.
Gülen and Erdogan are the same threat. They have been allies for decades. They had a falling out some years ago (probably because of power and/or money distrubution.)
Erdoğan worked for years to help place Gülen's people in military, justice and goverment places.
Erdoğan says he's been deceived (his own words)
If coup would have been successful i really believe we would be in worse situation.
(it is clear now it was not going to be)
There are lots of things going wrong in Turkey at the moment and sadly Erdoğan is not the only thing. (most important is there is not a competent and qualified opposition party)
As a turkish citizen i don't have much hope for my countries future. Hope i'm wrong
Thanks for posting. Yabancilar anlamiyor ya
metalslimer
Member
Do you have any evidence of this nefarious plot to destroy Turkey besides Turkish propoganda?
Stereogatari
Banned
There isn't enough information in non-Turkish sources on the subject. That's the genuine truth. Gülen people control the image of Turkey in America. AKP people and Secular Turks are crap at PR compared to Gülenists.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Gulen's people control... a few charter schools in America.
Velcro Fly
Member
I'm pretty sure the lasting image of what Turkey is all about these days are the suited goons beating up protesters outside the embassy a few weeks ago. Something like that is hard to get out in front of from a PR perspective.
Are you seriously suggesting Gulenists are somehow controlling the image of Turkey displayed in the American media?
You're out of your goddamned mind. Gulen's PR was so effective that literally nobody had heard of him till Erdogan threw him out as a Turkish boogeyman. Just hot creamy nonsense.
I've no idea how his "sophisticated PR apparatus" works in Turkey, but it's fucking non existent here.
Funny how you claim to be displeased with Erdogan cementing himself as an islamist dictator, but 99% of your posts are effectively defending him. Or maybe my mind has been warped by powerfully nuanced Gulenist PR.
Stereogatari
Banned
Well yes those mugs don't help. (Though can't say I sympathise with PKK/YPG supporters that they fought).
But look at the media image of Erdogan and Turkey before the split with Gülen (2013) and after. It's like night and day.
I work for one of those "Gulenist" charter schools in Southern California.
From what I seen, there was a ton of anti-gulenist websites and Twitter accounts and a paid law firm by the Turkish government to try to undermine charter schools with accused links to Gulen.
Didn't see much pro Gulen stuff though. Not through work or any of the Turkish teachers at school.
Those websites are gone now for some reason and I don't hear about the law firm anymore. I'm guessing that the Turkish government decided that the propaganda they were running in the U.S. weren't worth it anymore. At least on this front.
Are you genuinely suggesting we think Erdogan is a shitbucket BECAUSE OF GULENIST PR?
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
The Only reason Europe and the US don't tell Erdogan and Turkey to fuck off and need them on their side is, because of their strategic geographical location to the Mid_East and Asia. After his cronies attacking US citizens in Washington DC in broad daylight in front of Erdogan, It's getting pathetic how no one is calling out this barbaric dictator for who he is.
Those might be because of Erdogan's increasing autocratic tendencies and crackdowns on dissidents rather than any Gulen-controlled media. The reality on the ground in Turkey was very different five years ago from what it is today.
Stereogatari
Banned
No. But Erdogan's image was far better before the Gülenists went on overrdrive. Turkey was called a model for the Muslim World in major Western geopolitical publications. While Secular/Opposition Turks facepalmed at it all.
Secular Turks have been warning of Erdogan since 2002. Erdogan's name was barley known until a decade later and now it seems like the average joe in the West has heard of him.
Gülen and Erdogan's tag team cucked the Turkish military in 2007. And it was the replacements that bundled their coup attempt which Erdogan has used to his advantage.
It was like a divorce and the sane Turks were the children looking on helpless at the joke this country is.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I mean... Erodgan's image was a lot better before he started kidnapping and torturing the parents of his political enemies.
Maybe don't try to kidnap US public figures or assault US citizens and his image will improve?
Hopefully Erdogan dies of a cocaine overdose while he's on the toilet.
Maybe don't try to kidnap US public figures or assault US citizens and his image will improve?
Hopefully Erdogan dies of a cocaine overdose while he's on the toilet.
Stereogatari
Banned
On that golden toilet he supposedly has.