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[Poody]

What tv should i get? I'm living in a fairly small room just enough for a 20-29" tv.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Damn.

Everytime I plan on buying a set, there's never a clear winner. Always something. What really irks me the more I think about it, is that I will more than likley have to go b&m, as I know the best sets are never available at retail, unless you go to high-end stores like Myer-Emco which have insane mark ups.

Shipping costs make an online TV purchase rather prohibitive.

 

[ChumsGum]

Sucks for what reason?

I've heard they suck for 720p gaming.

 

[ImNotLikeThem]

Accurate in spirit, though:

-Your explanation sort of runs on and says 1080i is interlaced, then isn't. Casualty of quick writing?

-no guarantee that 1080i will eventually become the new standard. Bandwidth limits with HDTV have split the market between 1080i and 720p, and since 1080i has a framerate limit too, 720p is probably going to be the real darling for future consoles in the future.

-Most DVD movies are actually still in 480i. Unfortunately the DVD spec has to be messed with a bit to support progressive encodes, so even what is thought to be a fully progressive disc (say, a Pixar feature maybe) generally still has interlaced frames at various parts of the disc. Higher resolution outputs also aren't really supported in the spec, hence the new disc formats on the way.

oops, wow yeah. tired. i meant that 1080p would eventually become a new "standard format" for hdtv, and being both highres and non-interlaced. and yeah i generalized a lot, especially with DVDs, but just trying to get the main point across, that with current DVD tech, you wont get anyting above 480p at the most.

 

[Izzy]

By the time Xenon and PS3 launch, Sony's 34" XBR line should drop to ~$1000 level - surely that's a sensible offer.

 

[Izzy]

Or ....

Samsung SDI Co, Ltd of Korea has developed a 32-inch cathode ray tube (CRT) only 35cm deep. The new CRT makes it possible to build a CRT TV only 38cm deep (see Fig). The 32-inch CRT TVs available on the market today are normally 50 to 60cm deep. While this new CRT would still be significantly thicker than the 10cm or so of plasma display panel (PDP) and LCD TVs, it would be on a par with the 40cm depth of most rear-projection units using digital micromirror devices (DMD) or similar technologies.

Samsung SDI plans to begin small-scale manufacturing at the end of 2004, shifting to volume production the following year. The technology used in the 32-inch design will also be adopted in other CRT sizes, and the firm's entire CRT line-up is expected to be updated by 2006.

Next Target: 20cm Depth

Samsung SDI is not merely hoping to outdistance the competition in the 20- to 30-inch CRT market: the real goal is to make a CRT TV that can go head-to-head with LCD TVs in the global market. A source at the firm explained, "We developed this thin CRT with the objective of halting the erosion of the CRT TV market by LCD TVs."

In pursuit of this goal, the company has already started development of an even thinner CRT, with a depth of only 20cm. Sources at the firm believe it will be able to enter volume production around the end of 2006 through early 2007, and commented, "We are approaching it from two angles: extending the technology used in the 35cm CRT, and developing entirely new technologies."

One CRT engineer at a Japanese TV manufacturer pointed out, "A key issue for the 35cm CRT will be how it is utilized to improve product attractiveness versus thin-screen and conventional CRT TVs. It may be thinner than conventional TVs, but it's still deeper and heavier than the thin-screen models." Still, this is only the first release in Samsung SDI's project, which is working to achieve both thinner and lighter designs.

Market Still Enormous

Samsung SDI is refining the CRT and attacking the TV market because it is confident that there is still more than enough reason to bet on the CRT TV.

While electronics manufacturers have largely shifted their attention to PDP and LCD TVs, CRT models still account for a very large chunk of the world TV market. On a shipment volume base, about 77% of 30-inch TVs in 2005 are expected be to CRT designs. And while PDP and LCD TV prices continue to drop, there is still a major price gap.

The Samsung Group is already making big strides in the world marketplace via Samsung Electronics Co, Ltd of Korea, which markets panels for LCD TVs and pixel-type rear-projection systems. Samsung SDI itself manufactures PDP products, and now is releasing a strategic product that will carve a new niche for CRTs.

125°Deflection Angle

Samsung SDI selected 35cm as the first depth target for its CRTs in order to reduce the depth of the finished TV to within 40cm, and explained that the furniture commonly used in the home to hold TVs is 40 to 45cm deep, and a set-top box about 35cm deep. Simulations indicated that a 40cm TV depth would require that the CRT be no more than 35cm deep.

The design was thinned by increasing the deflection angle - the amount that the electron beam can be deflected by the yoke - from 105 to 125°. Other similar attempts to achieve thinner designs by increasing the deflection angle include a 36-inch CRT TV developed in 2001 by Matsushita Electronics Corp of Japan and two partners, with a depth of about 45cm and a CRT depth of 42.7cm. The deflection angle was 120°.

It is not a trivial task to expand the deflection angle, as one CRT engineer at a Japanese TV manufacturer explained: "Increasing the deflection angle results in a sharp rise in deflection power consumption. The shallower electron beam angle at the screen periphery causes blurring. It is quite difficult to get above about 120° while maintaining quality."

Samsung SDI resolved these problems accompanying a wider deflection angle through proprietary technology. The firm solved three key issues, namely (1) the increase in power consumption for deflection, (2) loss of electron beam focus, and (3) funnel glass cracking.

 

[Jumpman]

True.

Plus the Philips is ugly. Leaning toward this one...

Toshiba 30HF83

$199 for shipping is too much to swallow tho.

I'm not sure what the best tv is for you, but I may be able to help you with that online purchase. Here is a link to a site that usually has low prices on items. They may not have every tv that you are considering, but they do have a fair selection. The great thing about this site is that if they do have what you want, it will likely be for the lowest price available anywhere. The low price, and lack of the need to pay sales tax will likely pay for any shipping fees incurred (sometimes their shipping is free!). I hope this helps you out a little. Even if you don't make a purchase there, they have a lot of good info on the stuff they sell. You can even download a pdf of the tv's owners manual to look over and help make your decicion.

 

[RazzleDazzleRB]

By the time Xenon and PS3 launch, Sony's 34" XBR line should drop to ~$1000 level - surely that's a sensible offer.

Is it safe to say that the Sony XBR is the best CRT at 34" ? Also, is there a webpage that compares all these CRT TV's at the different sizes?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I'm not sure what the best tv is for you, but I may be able to help you with that online purchase. Here is a link to a site that usually has low prices on items. They may not have every tv that you are considering, but they do have a fair selection. The great thing about this site is that if they do have what you want, it will likely be for the lowest price available anywhere. The low price, and lack of the need to pay sales tax will likely pay for any shipping fees incurred (sometimes their shipping is free!). I hope this helps you out a little. Even if you don't make a purchase there, they have a lot of good info on the stuff they sell. You can even download a pdf of the tv's owners manual to look over and help make your decicion.

You rock!

Woah! Am I dreaming?!

 

[seanoff]

The 34" XBR has this said about it from CNET.

The bottom line: This is the reference standard for picture quality among direct-view HDTVs and also happens to be a great value.

 

[aerofx]

Insane, those thin cRT's are gorgeous and I bet the picture quality will be unmatched.

 

[seismologist]

The 34" Sony's are massive though. If you need one now, I'd get something smaller/cheaper and plan to replace it with the latest and greatest maybe 2-3 years from now.

 

[Inumaru]

^^

Can I get a model # on that?

The pic of the Panny on the previous page is CT-34WX53, which is the model I have. Essentially last year's model. Looks like the CT-34WX54 just adds HDMI and an incredibly ugly outer shell.

Someone mentioned the curvature of the picture at the top (left side?); I had the same thing when I got mine. Bugged the shit out of me. I called Panasonic and they approved someone to come out to my house and do the necessary adjustment, which can't be done from the service menu. Work was free under warranty, and it looks great now.

Regarding that 32" Samsung CRT, though it's impossible to tell from the picture, I'm only aware of 32" being a 4:3 aspect ratio, at least in NTSC sets. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though; it seems weird that Samsung would develop a new tube tech and release it in 4:3 as the first in a model line update...

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I want that Samsung SDI deal... When can something like that be purchased?

 

[mashoutposse]

I've amassed about $1300 in Best Buy Rewards Zone gift certificates -- what's the best 16:9 30-34" for the money? Is the new XS955 line comparable to the XBR as far as image quality is concerned (don't care too much about other features like MS slot or iLink)?

 

[seanoff]

Mash,

only the panasonic and toshiba are near it as far as i know.

but the Sony is out on its own. The damn thing has 1440 lines of vertical res.

Have a peek at CNETs HDTV section, its a pretty good resource if u want to know something and they're honest about things

 

[mashoutposse]

Thanks; I'm gonna check out CNET right now...

 

[The Faceless Master]

how good is the Sony KV-32HS20?

a friend of mine just got the KDF-42WE655 and is selling the KV-32HS20 for $500, it's pretty much near mint...

 

[RazzleDazzleRB]

Fuck, this is so confusing. I am never sure to go buy or wait. I am leaning towards getting the Sony 34" XBR or the Panny 34". I am not sure I want something that heavy. I would go DLP but I do not think it is a good choice for gaming. Maybe when new DLP chips come out.

One thing I do not understand: If CRT's do not do 720p natively and some games are 720p and some HD TV broadcasts are in 720p, will the CRT's look as good or close to as good showing these as other TV's that support native 720p? What if 720p did become the standard, would people with these TVs be screwed?

One other thing, how long do you think it will be until we get Projection TV's that do gaming as well as CRT's?

 

[Nerevar]

Fuck, this is so confusing. I am never sure to go buy or wait. I am leaning towards getting the Sony 34" XBR or the Panny 34". I am not sure I want something that heavy. I would go DLP but I do not think it is a good choice for gaming. Maybe when new DLP chips come out.

single-chip DLP has a host of other problems too (rainbows / headaches). I'm inclined to believe single-chip DLP will be dead in 10 years or so, surpassed by other technologies without the same inherent flaws (and hopefully, by that time, we'll have three-chip DLP). Plus, it's resolution doesn't scale well at all, so 1080p, when it does become a reality, might not happen on it.

One thing I do not understand: If CRT's do not do 720p natively and some games are 720p and some HD TV broadcasts are in 720p, will the CRT's look as good or close to as good showing these as other TV's that support native 720p? What if 720p did become the standard, would people with these TVs be screwed?

Keep in mind, though, that direct-view CRT makes up for this flaw by being the only technology that can really accurately display vivid colors and true blacks without burn-in worries. Most videophiles swear by direct-view CRT, and with good reason.

One other thing, how long do you think it will be until we get Projection TV's that do gaming as well as CRT's?

Until we get a rear-projection TV that can really do black levels well (which, frankly, doesn't exist, and I can't see it anytime in the near future), the direct-view CRT will always be the best option for gaming. However, the size restrictions and weight issues will most likely push consumers to RP digital TVs anyway.

 

[RazzleDazzleRB]

Keep in mind, though, that direct-view CRT makes up for this flaw by being the only technology that can really accurately display vivid colors and true blacks without burn-in worries. Most videophiles swear by direct-view CRT, and with good reason.

So how much of a difference in the picture (not counting color) is there from a TV that does 720p natively compared to one of these CRTs that does not do 720p? Is it noticeable for gaming & TV? I also want this to be a good TV for ESPN HD football and etc..

Is there a good website to go to that discusses all of this so I can learn and stop asking stupid questions?

 

[Nerevar]

So how much of a difference in the picture (not counting color) is there from a TV that does 720p natively compared to one of these CRTs that does not do 720p? Is it noticeable for gaming & TV? I also want this to be a good TV for ESPN HD football and etc..

From what I've seen of a direct-view CRT, the HD picture is actually better, despite the supposed inability to do 720p natively. Like I said, the shadows don't look washed out on a CRT. However, I'm not exactly a videophile or an expert, so I'm probably not the best to ask. Someone like DeCacoBravo is probably a more reliable source than me.

The best forum for this stuff is www.avsforum.com - check there. It's a really nice site for high-end stuff. I might be wrong there too, but at least you can check it out.

 

[tmdorsey]

Keep in mind, though, that direct-view CRT makes up for this flaw by being the only technology that can really accurately display vivid colors and true blacks without burn-in worries. Most videophiles swear by direct-view CRT, and with good reason.



Until we get a rear-projection TV that can really do black levels well (which, frankly, doesn't exist, and I can't see it anytime in the near future), the direct-view CRT will always be the best option for gaming. However, the size restrictions and weight issues will most likely push consumers to RP digital TVs anyway.

Rear-projection CRTs do true black just as well as direct-view CRTs. Where RPTVs fail in comparison to direct-view CRT is brightness and viewing angles(typical vertical). Of course rear-projection tvs have the size and resolvable detail advantage over direct-view CRTs.


I also stand by the fact that quality rear-projection CRT, properly ISF calibrated can look as good as a direct-view CRT when it comes to displaying high definition or even 480p content.

 

[shantyman]

So how much of a difference in the picture (not counting color) is there from a TV that does 720p natively compared to one of these CRTs that does not do 720p? Is it noticeable for gaming & TV? I also want this to be a good TV for ESPN HD football and etc..

Is there a good website to go to that discusses all of this so I can learn and stop asking stupid questions?

In the GT4 1080i thread, there is a lot of talk of TVs and what resolutions they support. I have the Sony 30HS420 (I think that is the model, direct view CRT 30' WS hi def monitor). It upconverts 720p to 1080i, but you can still tell a huge difference between it and, say, 480p. So, while it may not support it natively it still looks awesome. I was playing Freedom Fighters on X Box, BTW. Don't let the naysayers detract you from a CRT, if that is what you want.

PS: ESPN HD looks great, but to me native 1080i on CBS football looks better. It is not nerly as aliased.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

There's hardly any 720p content out there in regards to gaming. Soul Calibur 2 is the only really good piece to judge w/, and even that sucks because it's 4:3 only.
You can't even force 16:9 with that game.


There's also XBMC is you have a chipped XBOX... 720p is what I have mine set to. Until last night. It's on 1080i now, but I think it's blinding me because the fonts are way too small.

There's no point in even worrying about 720p direct view sets at this point because there are none.

 

[Nerevar]

Rear-projection CRTs do true black just as well as direct-view CRTs. Where RPTVs fail in comparison to direct-view CRT is brightness and viewing angles(typical vertical). Of course rear-projection tvs have the size and resolvable detail advantage over direct-view CRTs.

Yeah, I was really only talking about rear-project LCD / DLP / LCoS technologies. Yes, RP CRT tubes can do true blacks just as well, but they suffer from some major flaws as well. They are seriously prone to burn-in (moreso than any other technology AFAIK), and thus aren't good for gaming at all. They're huge and incredibly heavy (oftentimes nearly twice as much as an equivalent DLP or LCD set). And their viewing angles are usually pretty poor, forcing you to sit relatively at the center to get a "true" picture.

 

[shantyman]

how good is the Sony KV-32HS20?

a friend of mine just got the KDF-42WE655 and is selling the KV-32HS20 for $500, it's pretty much near mint...

I would jump on that. I have the 30' widescreen version and am extremely happy with it.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

lol!

This thread is a year old. Not much has changed.

 

[Lord Error]

lol!

This thread is a year old. Not much has changed.

Well, what did you expect to change, it's not like someone's going to magically make the new best-evar CRT nowadays