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[tuxfool]

Those Dems are all in red, red-leaning, or purple states. You guys need to understand that a full on liberal cannot be run in every situation. Center left Dems will need to be a thing where appropriate.

Otherwise you can guarantee losing 3-4 seats just from those people alone.

TBH, those red state democrats can barely be considered centrists, let alone center left. It is only by some freak accident that they're democrats.

The vast majority of the electorate isn't going to remember if their senator voted yes or no on a cabinet pick in 2 years. I find this excuse really flimsy.

See above. That lot could easily change their allegiances to R and nobody from those states would bat an eye. I think Manchin even publicly discussed doing that very thing.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Dems never been about that consensus life.

I mean, look how we tear each other apart here lol.

Basically, if progressivism is always inching toward new stages to conquer. Conservatism is the opposite. That's where the tension will always be with progressives. The fight then becomes who is progressive enough, while conservative display a unified front.

Tell me how a full on progressive will fare in the next election in West Virginia, Maine, or the Dakotas?

 

[watershed]

So the democrats' plan to delay confirmation votes in protest of Trump's ban has failed already, less than 24 hours after being announced. Thanks for being part of the resistance senate dems.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I don't understand why any dem is going along with this. What the fuck.

Trump won North Dakota and West Virginia by huge margins. Voters there probably love that he's kicking Muslims out of the country. Manchin and Hetkamp have to vote with the GOP a lot to keep their seats.

So the democrats' plan to delay confirmation votes in protest of Trump's ban has failed already, less than 24 hours after being announced. Thanks for being part of the resistance senate dems.

Every Dem senator could vote against Tillerson and we'd have the same result. This is what people voted for when they gave the GOP Congress and the Presidency.

 

[Boke1879]

The vast majority of the country is right leaning or center-right. These states are all either red or tossups. They have to pick their battles a bit more and cannot be ultra liberals. Otherwise, those seats go guaranteed red more than likely. Which is a worst proposition.

Yup. As much as I hate it. For these dems, they gotta pick their battles.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

The vast majority of the electorate isn't going to remember if their senator voted yes or no on a cabinet pick in 2 years. I find this excuse really flimsy.

Past voting records are always brought up during campaign season. The more important thing is that the numbers to block this don't exist. So there is little point in wasting political capital here in WV or other related states.

 

[darkwing]

Yup. As much as I hate it. For these dems, they gotta pick their battles.

this is true, the nomination was going to be pushed through anyway

 

[Boke1879]

So the democrats' plan to delay confirmation votes in protest of Trump's ban has failed already, less than 24 hours after being announced. Thanks for being part of the resistance senate dems.

He was going to get confirmed anyway. GOP straight up have the votes.

 

[Hindl]

Manchin is essentially a Republican, no shock there

 

[BowieZ]

Thanks, voiced my displeasure on their twitter accounts, not like they read those, but did my part.

Can you please post their Twitter accounts?

 

[RPGCrazied]

Can you please post their Twitter accounts?

@SenatorHeitkamp
@Sen_JoeManchin
@MarkWarner
@SenAngusKing

 

[BowieZ]

So the democrats' plan to delay confirmation votes in protest of Trump's ban has failed already, less than 24 hours after being announced. Thanks for being part of the resistance senate dems.

They didn't really have the votes, but the news is that three Dems and an Independent voted against it anyway...

... because of their 2018 re-elections.

 

[Balphon]

So the democrats' plan to delay confirmation votes in protest of Trump's ban has failed already, less than 24 hours after being announced. Thanks for being part of the resistance senate dems.

There was no real way to delay Tillerson's appointment any further. His confirmation was more or less assured when he made it out of committee.

The most Dems can really do to delay any of these nominees is draw out the timeline in committee, which they've largely been doing. They don't have the votes to defeat a cloture motion on the Senate floor.

Manchin is essentially a Republican, no shock there

No, he's a Democrat from West Virginia in an election year. He is going to be to the right of the rest of the caucus the majority of the time regardless, and is from a state Trump carried by 40 points.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Tell me how a full on progressive will fare in the next election in West Virginia, Maine, or the Dakotas?

Maine has voted Democratic in every election since Reagan won 49 states in 1984. Virginia went blue by five points in a Republican victory. New Hampshire, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio were all much Republican than Virginia in the past election but all of their Democratic senators voted against Tillerson.

King and Warner have no excuses.

 

[Kusagari]

Past voting records are always brought up during campaign season. The more important thing is that the numbers to block this don't exist. So there is little point in wasting political capital here in WV or other related states.

I just don't think a political ad saying "JOE MANCHIN VOTED AGAINST BETSY DEVOS(a name most people probably won't even recognize)" is an effective ad at all. Manchin joining Republicans on issues like the coal industry make sense and would actually be effective in attack ads against him.

 

[watershed]

They didn't really have the votes, but the news is that three Dems and an Independent voted against it anyway...

... because of their 2018 re-elections.

There was no real way to delay Tillerson's appointment any further. His confirmation was more or less assured when he made it out of committee.

The most Dems can really do to delay any of these nominees is draw out the timeline in committee, which they've largely been doing. They don't have the votes to defeat a cloture motion on the Senate floor.

I know, which is why their plan was so flawed in the first place. I hope senate dem leadership has a better plan going forward. Are anonymous holds possible for supreme court nominees? I know they're still a thing for lower court openings. If I were dems, I would put a hold on everything, including legislation and judicial appointments.

 

[BowieZ]

@SenatorHeitkamp
@Sen_JoeManchin
@MarkWarner
@SenAngusKing

Just gave them hell...

Please join in, retweet, and comment!

D - Mark Warner
D - Heidi Heitkamp
I - Angus King
D - Joe ("Secret Republican") Manchin

 

[Balphon]

I know, which is why their plan was so flawed in the first place. I hope senate dem leadership has a better plan going forward. Are anonymous holds possible for supreme court nominees? I know they're still a thing for lower court openings. If I were dems, I would put a hold on everything, including legislation and judicial appointments.

Sure, but holds are similarly overcome by a cloture motion.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Maine has voted Democratic in every election since Reagan won 49 states in 1984. Virginia went blue by five points in a Republican victory. New Hampshire, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio were all much Republican than Virginia in the past election but all of their Democratic senators voted against Tillerson.

King and Warner have no excuses.

Fair enough on Maine. But VA was closer I think. Yeah it was a GOP victory, but Kaine was on the ticket - so probably should have been larger.

But I guess it was no Gore losing Tennessee.

 

[watershed]

Sure, but holds are similarly overcome by a cloture motion.

60 votes required no? I am not an expert on this stuff but I thought that was the case.

 

[Blader]

Heitkamp and Manchin are the only Dems you'll be getting out of North Dakota and West Virginia for a long time.

Warner, though, that's bizarre.

60 votes required no? I am not an expert on this stuff but I thought that was the case.

Not anymore. Dems eliminated that rule back in 2013 to get around GOP obstruction. It's still in place for SCOTUS though; otherwise, all other executive appointments can go through with 51 votes.

 

[trembli0s]

Now I'm reading the Dems are going to cave on the SCOTUS pick too?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/democrats-supreme-court-battle

Senate Democrats are weighing whether to avoid an all-out war to block President Donald Trump's upcoming Supreme Court pick, instead considering delaying that battle for a future nomination that could shift the ideological balance of the court, sources say.

Democrats privately discussed their tactics during a closed-door retreat in West Virginia last week. And a number of Democrats are trying to persuade liberal firebrands to essentially let Republicans confirm Trump's pick after a vigorous confirmation process -- since Trump is likely to name a conservative to replace the late conservative Justice Antonin Scalia.

Good Lord, just get down and kiss the ring right now.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Now I'm reading the Dems are going to cave on the SCOTUS pick too?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/democrats-supreme-court-battle



Good Lord, just get down and kiss the ring right now.

Democrats always fuck everything up even with a majority in Senate and Congress.

 

[UberTag]

Good luck replacing those Democrats with other Democrats...

Are those Democrats or Republicans in sheep's clothing?
'Cause it may as well be the latter. Especially Manchin.

 

[Black Republican]

Whoever confirms Sessions needs to die in a fire

 

[LegendofJoe]

Good luck replacing those Democrats with other Democrats...

If there is a formidable opponent in Virginia they should go after Warner's seat. I'm not upset by Manchin and Heitkamp voting the way they did. They've got a tough fight in front of them for reelection.

 

[SolarPowered]

Democrats can't even fall in line during this disastrous administration.

What a spineless buncha cowards those four are.

After seeing their states I can't blame them.We're going to need them eventually, so we should let them slide.

Now I'm reading the Dems are going to cave on the SCOTUS pick too?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/democrats-supreme-court-battle



Good Lord, just get down and kiss the ring right now.

It sucks, but I can't blame them. It is one thing for Republicans to nuke the filibuster entirely come 2018, 2019 or 2020 if one of the SCOTUS judges dies and another for Democrats to rush that process a week from now just to stop a Scalia replacement. Let's not play Trump's game of Russian roulette on every single issue or it WILL come back to bite us in the ass.

 

[Blader]

Democrats always fuck everything up even with a majority in Senate and Congress.

Responsible governance is a lot harder than burning down government.

 

[Davide]

Did Rubio vote?

 

[Balphon]

60 votes required no? I am not an expert on this stuff but I thought that was the case.

For legislation, but for non-SCOTUS nominees a simple majority suffices.

That was the upshot of the "nuclear option" Democrats instituted a few years back in response to sustained GOP obstruction of Obama appointments, particularly to the federal courts.

 

[hodayathink]

Now I'm reading the Dems are going to cave on the SCOTUS pick too?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/democrats-supreme-court-battle



Good Lord, just get down and kiss the ring right now.

One, there's no way they're going to be able to delay Scalia's replacement for 4 years. At best, in theory they'd be able to get the administration to nominate someone more moderate, but with the Republican party the way it is right now, that's not happening either.

Two, they're replacing the most conservative judge on the bench with someone who's probably still going to be the most conservative (or at best, the second most conservative) judge on the bench. The Supreme Court will basically be the same politically as it was before Scalia died.

Three, they're right in that the real battle is for if/when one of the liberal judges moves on, because that's the one that will tilt the balance of power heavily towards conservatives.

All that being said, no one's going to remember that they held up this nominee when it comes time to appoint the next nominee, so I don't see any reason to be particularly nice about this one.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Fair enough on Maine. But VA was closer I think. Yeah it was a GOP victory, but Kaine was on the ticket - so probably should have been larger.

But I guess it was no Gore losing Tennessee.

A five point victory when their sister to the south was 8.6 points more Republican is a big deal. That puts it at D+3 when in 2008 it and NC were both R+6.8-ish. That's almost a ten point swing over the past eight years and it includes the fact that the state has a Democratic governor and two Democratic senators. Warner's reelection was close but he won in a Republican wave election. His reelection bid (if he runs again) will be in 2020, guaranteeing that he won't be subject to a midterm backlash during a Democratic president's term. He has no excuse other than that he's a fossil from a time when Democrats could win in reddish-purple states by running right-tilting centrists and doesn't really have a place in the party going forward.

He should definitely be primaried in 2020 if he refuses to move left.

 

[Drensch]

Just to understand some of the dipshittery in this thread, It'd be better to lose those 4 seats in the Senate, but keep some sort of ideological purity?

 

[Blastoise]

gonna be buddy buddy with Russia

 

[hodayathink]

Just to understand some of the dipshittery in this thread, It'd be better to lose those 4 seats in the Senate, but keep some sort of ideological purity?

If you want to get real, to point out WV specifically, Manchin is, a lot of the time, going to vote like a typical Republican. The scary part is how far to the right a Republican that beats him is going to be.

 

[Deadbeat]

Just to understand some of the dipshittery in this thread, It'd be better to lose those 4 seats in the Senate, but keep some sort of ideological purity?

Argument being that they are going to lose the seats anyway, might as well go out swinging. But those swings are just whiffs anyways.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Just to understand some of the dipshittery in this thread, It'd be better to lose those 4 seats in the Senate, but keep some sort of ideological purity?

At what point does it cease to matter if we keep Republicans out if we just become them? Heitkamp and Manchin I get. King and Warner have no excuse.

 

[ExVicis]

If there is a formidable opponent in Virginia they should go after Warner's seat. I'm not upset by Manchin and Heitkamp voting the way they did. They've got a tough fight in front of them for reelection.

I'm with you on Warner, as a Virginia resident I'm livid to see this crap.

 

[televator]

Her name is Heidi... Hate Camp?

 

[Polari]

I don't get the beef with Tillerson. Trump has horrendous picks like Carson and DeVos. Considering his employment history Tillerson is probably at least pretty competent when it comes to running a large organisation, and doesn't appear to be a crazy ideologist. Politico was saying the other day that the general mood in the State Department was favourable towards the appointment (no sources though so who knows).

 

[Blizzard]

I don't get the beef with Tillerson. Trump has horrendous picks like Carson and DeVos. Considering his employment history Tillerson is probably at least pretty competent when it comes to running a large organisation, and doesn't appear to be a crazy ideologist. Politico was saying the other day that the general mood in the State Department was favourable towards the appointment (no sources though so who knows).

He had this very oddly appropriate question a few years ago. Hopefully it comes up tomorrow: https://twitter.com/yottapoint/status/826289013891821568

 

[leroidys]

I don't get the beef with Tillerson. Trump has horrendous picks like Carson and DeVos. Considering his employment history Tillerson is probably at least pretty competent when it comes to running a large organisation, and doesn't appear to be a crazy ideologist. Politico was saying the other day that the general mood in the State Department was favourable towards the appointment (no sources though so who knows).

Did you watch the hearing? Serious question.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Sens. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Mark R. Warner of Virginia, all of whom face re-election next year. Democratic-leaning independent Sen. Angus S. King Jr. of Maine also voted to advance Mr. Tillerson’s nomination.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/30/rex-tillerson-cleared-for-confirmation-vote-in-sen/

This is wrong, by the way. Warner was just re-elected in 2014, and doesn't face re-election until 2020. It's Kaine who is up next year in Virginia.

 

[nintendoman58]

Did you watch the hearing? Serious question.

I didn't watch the hearing, but apparently the guy is for the Paris Climate Agreement from what I read on an article on Bloomberg.

In that he likes the fact that it's a massive global effort sort of thing, IIRC.

EDIT: Re-reading the article, he specifically says that the US should stay "at the table" regarding it. Whatever that means.

 

[Maxim726X]

Yup. As much as I hate it. For these dems, they gotta pick their battles.

But this wasn't a 'battle'- He was going to make it anyway.

Republicans stood together to obstruct Obama at every turn- It's far past time for the Democrats to do the same.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Every single horrible nominee will be nominated.

 

[Wag]

Goosestepping down Pennsylvania Ave in no time...

 

[Blader]

I don't get the beef with Tillerson. Trump has horrendous picks like Carson and DeVos. Considering his employment history Tillerson is probably at least pretty competent when it comes to running a large organisation, and doesn't appear to be a crazy ideologist. Politico was saying the other day that the general mood in the State Department was favourable towards the appointment (no sources though so who knows).

I was keeping an open mind about Tillerson until his horrible showing at his confirmation hearing. Now I'm less worried about Tillerson being corrupt and more worried about him just being flat out incompetent.

 

[C.Mongler]

Sad I moved out of Virginia and into DC a couple months ago so I can't primary this clown in 2018. I even called him last night and requested a nay on a rambling list of appointees, since I still have a 703 area code at the very least.

Dems need to get their shit together.

EDIT: Man, I always get bamboozled on this shit; Kaine's up for reelection in 2018, not Warner.

 

[BradC00]

Booker redeemed?