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UFC Hit With Massive Antitrust Lawsuit By Former Fighters

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broz0rs

Member
The lawsuit, the culmination of months of rumors about pending legal action, was filed against Zuffa LLC, the parent company of the UFC, in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California. It has three named plaintiffs: current UFC middleweight Cung Le and former UFC fighters Jon Fitch and Nathan Quarry.

wait a second. where's the class action part where there's supposed to be a hundred fighters attached to this thing? there's only three names.

i'm all about fighter rights, but isn't it fucking douchey as shit that Cung Le has the galls to sue when he just recently fought and headlined a card only to get busted for steroid use?
 
Because they are the entertainment. Just like with any other "sport" they should be compensated accordingly to what the company generates. But the issue here is the lack fo competition which is keeping the compensation so low.

This is true but the profits of MMA are much lower than other sports and just like other sports the stars make much more than the average athlete.

Nothing that I've seen proves that these guys would actually make more money under other organizations. Of the 3 named fighters, Fitch is the only guy who could've possibly made a decent amount of money. The other guys just don't put butts in the seats. Compare them to a guy like Chael Sonnen, who was talented but not good enough to win a title in any division he fought in but he drew crowds/buys. Sonnen was compensated for that.

Now the bottom tier pay for the sport is definitely pretty bad from the outside looking in but I haven't seen any evidence that bottom tier guys in any other combat sport are making much more. All the examples provided are guys who are at the top of the sport and while the top athletes in other sports make much more than the top athletes in the UFC, their sports generate much more income.

The stuff that really is the most concerning are the things like signing likeness and name rights away in perpetuity and the banning of outside sponsorships. However banning outside sponsorships may just weaken the UFC on it's own as a lot of the middle tier talent can fight out their contracts and head to other organizations, become big fish in smaller ponds and keep that sponsorship income.
 
wait a second. where's the class action part where there's supposed to be a hundred fighters attached to this thing? there's only three names.

i'm all about fighter rights, but isn't it fucking douchey as shit that Cung Le has the galls to sue when he just recently fought and headlined a card only to get busted for steroid use?
The test that busted him was apparently the wrong one to use. Further, his sample was destroyed/lost by the lab, so they couldn't re-tetst it using the proper protocol. In other words, the UFC dragged his name through the mud over nothing. That you think he got busted for steroids (it was HGH and he wasn't busted) shows the damage the UFC has done to his image. He's wanted out of his contract ever since.
 

Heel

Member
Nothing that I've seen proves that these guys would actually make more money under other organizations. Of the 3 named fighters, Fitch is the only guy who could've possibly made a decent amount of money. The other guys just don't put butts in the seats.

Cung was bigger than the other two combined, easily.
 

Carnby

Member
Nope, they're making $500 per match instead. And that's not even taking into account that they have to pay for their own travel and medical expenses. Obviously the better of two evils, m i rite?

This situation portrays the UFC as a pretty scummy company and I really hope it works out for the fighters (and other promotions) but come the fuck on. Trying to defend WWE's even scummier shit is embarrassing and insulting.


There's no need to act like an asshole about it. m i rite?

Regardless, I still disagree. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
Floyd-Mayweather-paychecks.jpg
 
Cung was bigger than the other two combined, easily.

I never got that vibe. He's huge in Asia I'm sure but his earning potential in MMA at his age outside of that market would've been much more limited that Fitch's. Fitch was boring but his record within the UFC was impressive. Only 1 loss or draw to a fighter who wasn't a champ in that weight class at one point.
 

Heel

Member
I never got that vibe. He's huge in Asia I'm sure but his earning potential in MMA at his age outside of that market would've been much more limited that Fitch's. Fitch was boring but his record within the UFC was impressive. Only 1 loss or draw to a fighter who wasn't a champ in that weight class at one point.

Cung was instrumental in the success of an entire promotion and MMA scene, sat down 16k asses with Shamrock. Fitch is the definition of an anti-draw, if anything.
 

Guru-Guru

Banned
I never got that vibe. He's huge in Asia I'm sure but his earning potential in MMA at his age outside of that market would've been much more limited that Fitch's. Fitch was boring but his record within the UFC was impressive. Only 1 loss or draw to a fighter who wasn't a champ in that weight class at one point.
It doesn't matter if you have an excellent record and are clearly a top-tier fighter; if nobody wants to watch you fight, you won't be making a ton of money. This is the case of Fitch...He has pretty much no fans, and I have a hard time believing that anybody would buy tickets to an event for Fitch. Sonnen had a boring fight style, but unlike Fitch, had a ridiculous amount of charisma/mic skills, hence why he was able to leverage himself for huge paydays.
 
I don't think "Get a second job" is really the best way to approach fucked up financial systems that screw low level employees.

Imagine if they want to buy a PS3. Third job!

This doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. The main argument is that the UFC is a monopoly and that there is no other promotional option. The problem is Bellator just did 1.8 million viewers on Spike T.V. (peaking at 2 million, making it the most-watched and highest–rated MMA fight on cable in 2014).

You don't understand how these anti-trust things work, obviously. The existence of a competitor doesn't mean that someone isn't engaging in anti-competitive behavior. If you have market power (which UFC does) and you are actively shutting down competition or engaging in some other anti-competitive behavior (which the complaint alleges), then you can be held liable under the anti-trust laws.

http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices
 
Dana always came off to me as an incredibly slimey guy, but DAMN @ those fighter payouts.

Mayweather makes more in one fight than all of them combined.

EDIT: That's an overstatement, he makes WAY more.

I'd like to see the numbers for Jon Jones, Anderson Silva and Chris Weidman.

Even the numbers for the bigger stars isnt what youd expect. Maybe half a mil tops per fight? Which is pretty good, but yeah, compared to someone like Mayweather, who would probably take far less damage per fight than your average MMA bout, its insane.

Youve got to wonder how anyone bothers fighting their way to Star status like JBJ, when youre being paid 8K in the beginning. You could make more as a waitress.

It also makes the resentment alot of them are showing for CM Punk more understandable. You think hes gonna go out there for 8K? Yet he hasnt had a single amateur fight in his life.
 
Nope, they're making $500 per match instead. And that's not even taking into account that they have to pay for their own travel and medical expenses. Obviously the better of two evils, m i rite?

This situation portrays the UFC as a pretty scummy company and I really hope it works out for the fighters (and other promotions) but come the fuck on. Trying to defend WWE's even scummier shit is embarrassing and insulting.

Anyway, I love how many of Dana's quotes/tweets are being referenced. If anyone deserves their dickhead comments coming back to bite them in the ass, it's that guy.

WWE pays a guaranteed contract, nobody who is more than an occasional jobber gets paid by the match and haven't since the mid nineties (and yes, that changed because of competition from WCW). They also pay medical expenses, including often for wrestlers who haven't been employed there for years.

Wrestlers don't and never have paid travel expenses. They do pay car rental, which I believe is a legal thing that has to do with the independent contractor status (which, agreed, is absolute bullshit both for WWE and UFC).

UFC doesn't pay for using fighters in video games, while for WWE I'm told what they get paid makes a huge difference for the lower card guys yearly salary.
 

pr0cs

Member
hopefully something will go down that will kick Dana white out of UFC. Asshole!
::eyeroll

It's pretty clear that the ufc has been applying dirty tactics to the fighters for a long time. The 'likeness' clause was beyond ridiculous.
I just hope both sides can come to some sort of agreement
 

Faddy

Banned
That fight pay is a little misleading. AFAIK UFC tiers the fights on a card so if you are in a class A fight you get $50k down to as little as $8k on PPV but you also get win bonuses. There is also money from the central contract you negotiate which is on top of the prize money. This works well for the guys at the top since they can negotiate the up front contract with more leverage and rake in millions from their fights and the lower rung guys get screwed. Welcome to every sport ever.

I don't think the issue is a monopoly but that there is much more risk in joining other promotions and there aren't the rewards available if you do become a star, although that is changing with Bellator.

The problem for the fighters is going to be this. If UFC is only paying ~20% of the income to fighters and that is well below market value why haven't more promotions been able to compete. Now if the crux of the case is the venue deal driving other guys out of the best locations that seems rather weak. They also cut their own throat by talking about Elite MMA bouts which means that the fighters are already discriminating against smaller promotions and do not consider them competitors simply on the basis of pay but then it is a chicken and egg thing since if the better fighters are unwilling to work at the smaller promotions they have little hope of becoming bigger.

Comparisons with top boxers are silly since it has much larger global reach especially for name fighters. The big names once again have much more power in boxing since they will be presented with deals from different promoters and have options with several TV companies. In the USA Showtime and HBO being the big ones and many more worldwide.

For people asking why wrestlers don't do this with WWE it would be impossible to define the market to determine a monopoly. WWE basically says its employees are actors and stuntmen and can actually back up that assertion with those WWE productions movies.
 

liger05

Member
UFC doesn't pay for using fighters in video games, while for WWE I'm told what they get paid makes a huge difference for the lower card guys yearly salary.

Why is that and cant the fighters challenge that?
 
Nobody is making 8k and told they'll be wiped from history if they look at other options.

I'm not saying wwe is run by saints, but it's the better of two evils.
As mentioned by someone else, not only do they make a lot less than the 8K but they also normally have to pay travel, accommodation, medical expenses etc.

And as for the ‘wiped from history’ comment, I seriously hope you are joking. WWE is the main place known for screwing people over if you complain or for anything really if your face doesn’t fit backstage. Look at how some people get treated just because they weren’t originally from WWE, you get jobbed out and left for the rubbish collection.
 

Takuan

Member
Is it realistic to expect to get bigger paydays from the likes of WSOF and Bellatch with the UFC out of the picture?
 

Ronin Ray

Member
How does Alistair Overeem make more then those other guys?

I use to be into in MMA but Dana White comes off like a scummy boxing or wrestling promoter and started to turn me off. I think he holds the UFC and MMA back. Compare the way he talks and acts to the Commissioner of the NBA, NFL MLB, etc. Yeah those commissioner make mistakes but they come off like professional business men.
 
I was wondering about this. I couldn't believe how many fighters they have contracts with. It didn't occur to me that they did it to take out competition. I knew UFC guys got paid poorly relative to boxing but damn that's low. I bet John Jones is banking with his nike sponsorship but it ain't boxing money.
 

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
It's funny to me that boxing and mma have the same problems but on the opposite sides. On one side, there are too many people in power and, on the other, too few.

Dana White runs his organization like Vince McMahon. The ufc fighters shouldn't be contracted, it makes no sense for them, but they don't really have a choice. If they could get together and stage a mass boycott, this would be solved in a hurry.
 
The problem for the fighters is going to be this. If UFC is only paying ~20% of the income to fighters and that is well below market value why haven't more promotions been able to compete.

This is actually a difficult question to answer in terms of the legality they are challenging, but the short and simple answer is that Zuffa has done a remarkable job of marketing. The average person or casual fan knows the sport itself as UFC or "ultimate fighting", not MMA, which it is.

That alone makes getting past branding difficult for other organizations.

And I have a feeling guys like Rampage and Tito that are now fighting for Bellator will speak on behalf of the fighters and might be willing to publish what they are actually taking home fighting over there versus the UFC.
 

VoxPop

Member
Eh, its a weird situation.

You can't really compare pay from other sports organizations to that of the UFC.

The UFC has done a tremendous job on creating its brand. No casual fan really sees it as MMA but instead as the UFC / Ultimate Fighting.

While the fighters do put some butts in the seats, its more of the fact that these people are going to a UFC event and not to see some garbage like Machida vs Dolloway.

Having a mega star like LeBron leaving the NBA to go elsewhere would leave a MUCH bigger dent than if someone like Weidman or Cain Velasquez left the UFC and went to Bellator. At the very best, it'll only give Bellator maybe a few hundred thousand more viewers and really not impact the UFC all that much.

The UFC puts most of the effort into promotion, marketing, advertising, merchandise, and keeping the brand what it is. Its only when they go the freakshow route with guys like Brock, Kimbo or CM Punk when these guys can totally eclipse the UFC as a brand and do good for themselves. 99% of the fighters in the UFC are not capable of doing that.

The casual fan gives zero fucks about boxing itself and pays to see Mayweather/Pacquiao. They do not care about the next contender fighting on the undercard. Hell, they probably wont even watch it. They are solely paying to see one of those two fight.

How many people actually gave a shit that Junior Dos Santos was fighting Miocic this past Saturday? If anything, the casual fan tuned in to watch the UFC due to all their promotion during FOX broadcasts and what not.. Not to see those two specific fighters.

All those promotions that were supposedly killed off by UFC's monopoly is a bit absurd. They failed cause they were terrible promotions. They overpaid for guys who couldnt even draw like Fedor and lost TV deals on their own. Aside from Strikeforce which had a great formula and put on great shows that didn't rely on a single person. Which is why they eventually got bought out for their great stable of fighters and fight library.

That being said, the pay is still shit. The UFC doesn't have to pay the top guys in the amount that Mayweather gets paid (who does all the promoting and stuff himself) but they really need to raise the bar. They're never going to attract elite talent with the garbage pay theyre giving out now.

While the low tier fighters DO deserve what theyre getting paid now considering they barely even move the needle on their own, the UFC should show some sentiment and at least raise their salaries to a decent standard for them to live on and not look like total unprofessionals working at a Starbucks as a second job. I'm thinking more in the 15K/15K - 20K/20K range for newbies unless it was some highly touted fighter coming in.

Its already fucked up enough that the UFC is taking away their sponsors and giving them shitty tiered payout via their bullshit ranking system (which takes fighters out just cause they had a spat with Dana himself). Just give them enough money to be able to be a fighter full time. Basically raising the bar from 8K/8K to 20K/20K for the 572 fighters on the roster ( wouldnt even be for all of them! ) it would only be 13 million extra out of their 500 million revenue they made this year. Which I'm sure is nothing to them.

Also the top guys who actually bring in PPV buys themselves (GSP, Silva, Rousey, Jones) should be compensated a bit better. These are the only guys who could actually make casuals watch and should be rewarded for that. Hell its fucking 4 fighters out of 500+. I'm not even talking about the other champions who no one cares about.

Good luck getting 70%+ of the income the UFC generates though. That's just absurd when UFC does pretty much all the work.
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I don't think "Get a second job" is really the best way to approach fucked up financial systems that screw low level employees.

I agree completely. MMA organizations should have a lot more profit sharing with their fighters.

But you can't really blame the UFC and other MMA organizations if a low-level or beginner fighter isn't making a lot of money. After all, soccer players in the MLS make nowhere near as much as they do in England or Spain.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Fighters do stuff on the side as well.

If they're popular and/or technically proficient they can do seminars and training events overseas with every paid for by another gym or organisation.
They may also be called in as sparring partners for another fighter's training camp and get paid for that.
They can do some extra sponsorship on the side (shill some stuff on twitter/facebook or attend trade shows for supplement companies, etc),
They may even be able to be used as extras/stuntmen in b-movies.
And being a security guard is always an option. I think the current Bellator Light-heavyweight Champion was doing this a few months ago as they didn't let him fight (due to their scheduling and tournament system). James Thompson also works security in boxing events.
The bolded it seems to me would interfere with their training. Even two or three days a week with a large block of hours eating up training or rest time, or even just interrupting their focus, could make a fighter worse off for their next fight. So if these guys are looking at fighting as their career the current pay scale doesn't support it.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
wait a second. where's the class action part where there's supposed to be a hundred fighters attached to this thing? there's only three names.

i'm all about fighter rights, but isn't it fucking douchey as shit that Cung Le has the galls to sue when he just recently fought and headlined a card only to get busted for steroid use?

People who are happy don't sue each other.


What's the deal with the anti-doping amount? (seems like a cut from his check?)
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
It's really not. Most of these guys make like 70-80k a year in WWE wrestling 300 nights a year. They also have to pay for alot of their own travel as well. They also don't get to have sponsorships outside of WWE.
They also can't do interviews with anybody but Vince's magazines and can't be in movies that he doesn't produce. And if they take any time off at all for any reason he fires them.

I still haven't heard a good argument for why these "athletes" should be better compensated for human cockfighting.
Oohhhhh...

Is it realistic to expect to get bigger paydays from the likes of WSOF and Bellatch with the UFC out of the picture?
No, but the idea isn't to put UFC out of business, it's to stop them from stifling competition.
 

DiscoJer

Member
WWE is not a sport. The people in it are basically actors, working for a studio (WWE). Probably the best comparison for professional wrestlers would be soap opera actors who shoot 5 days a week, all year round.

Yes, there is some physicality involved, but they don't actually physically fight each other like in UFC
 

Sean

Banned
Dana White runs his organization like Vince McMahon. The ufc fighters shouldn't be contracted, it makes no sense for them, but they don't really have a choice. If they could get together and stage a mass boycott, this would be solved in a hurry.

Mass boycott is never gonna happen imo.

UFC has 621 fighters in their roster but audiences only care about the top 5-10 fighters in each weight class (even that's stretching it, nobody gives a shit about the midget flyweight division for example.) And those top ranked people are the champs and elite fighters that are well taken care of by the UFC - they'd have little reason to boycott.
 
WWE is not a sport. The people in it are basically actors, working for a studio (WWE). Probably the best comparison for professional wrestlers would be soap opera actors who shoot 5 days a week, all year round.

Yes, there is some physicality involved, but they don't actually physically fight each other like in UFC

No, but I would say WWE is more dangerous than UFC. 300 days a year taking bumps sounds much worse than gettin KOd once or twice a year and that's worse case scanerio
 
WWE pays a guaranteed contract, nobody who is more than an occasional jobber gets paid by the match and haven't since the mid nineties (and yes, that changed because of competition from WCW). They also pay medical expenses, including often for wrestlers who haven't been employed there for years.

Wrestlers don't and never have paid travel expenses. They do pay car rental, which I believe is a legal thing that has to do with the independent contractor status (which, agreed, is absolute bullshit both for WWE and UFC).

UFC doesn't pay for using fighters in video games, while for WWE I'm told what they get paid makes a huge difference for the lower card guys yearly salary.

Uh, guaranteed contracts aren't salaries, they're a figure the wrestlers are guaranteed to receive in a year (between pay for matches, merch and PPV points). So if they're under their figure by the end of the fiscal year, the remainder is paid out in a lump sum.

You realise there's been a lot of talk about WWE pay recently, right? I didn't just make what I said up, the $500 a match bit was directly from a Del Rio interview, referring to either one of the Uso's or Bray Wyatt (he mentioned they had a brother in the company). Hell, just today we got this from former WWE wrestler, Tyler Reks:
"Here's a perfect example: I hate to spill my salary on the internet, but when I left I got a bump to $100,000 a year. But a third of it goes to road expenses. The only thing they pay for is your flight. You pay for your own hotel, and car, and food. Could you imagine trying to eat out five times a day? As a body guy, you have to maintain your physique and that means eating five times a day. Spending all your money trying to maintain that? Good luck. Then Uncle Sam takes 20%-30%. You guys do the math and see how much I walked away with, which was next to nothing. I was making more money fresh out of college as an engineer fresh out of college in an entry level position than being on TV. That's gotten worse from what I hear. They do a ton of tours, and some guys would be making $30,000-$40,000 in the day. I went to Europe and I think I brought home $5,000. Then there was one tour I flew overseas and did a ten day tour and made less than $2,000. I made less than $500 a show. The video games are getting worse - guys used to get paid up to $100,000 for being in the video game and now it's much, much less. The reading audience will think that's a lot of money, but when you're on the road it's not. We don't all have busses like John and Punk and Show. You're breaking your body to barely pay the bills."

As for medical expenses, as far as I'm aware, it depends. If it's a major injury, they'll cover the costs. If it isn't then they don't give a shit. And even for major stuff, they'll sometimes go into denial mode and make the wrestlers work anyway. Why do you think they don't offer medical insurance? For fun?

I'll agree on the videogame royalty thing though. The way UFC has handled that is pretty disgusting.
 
Uh, guaranteed contracts aren't salaries, they're a figure the wrestlers are guaranteed to receive in a year (between pay for matches, merch and PPV points). So if they're under their figure by the end of the fiscal year, the remainder is paid out in a lump sum.

You realise there's been a lot of talk about WWE pay recently, right? I didn't just make what I said up, the $500 a match bit was directly from a Del Rio interview, referring to either one of the Uso's or Bray Wyatt (he mentioned they had a brother in the company). Hell, just today we got this from former WWE wrestler, Tyler Reks:


As for medical expenses, as far as I'm aware, it depends. If it's a major injury, they'll cover the costs. If it isn't then they don't give a shit. And even for major stuff, they'll sometimes go into denial mode and make the wrestlers work anyway. Why do you think they don't offer medical insurance? For fun?

I'll agree on the videogame royalty thing though. The way UFC has handled that is pretty disgusting.

Yes, I am well aware that WWE isn't paradise, I was simply contrasting with the UFC, which is the subject of this thread, and pointing out that the UFC is in fact worse in many ways than the notoriously scummy WWE.

I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make about guaranteed contracts. My point was that in WWE wrestlers are guaranteed a certain amount a year, while in UFC you don't make a dime if you don't fight. If you're injured, tough luck.

They don't offer complete medical insurance because that would threaten the independent contractor status, same reason they don't pay for hotels and rental cars.

I have not heard anything about not paying medical expenses for at least 10-15 years.
 
Interesting that Dana White is an asshole swindler. Kind of like...a boxing promoter? Ive heard for years from UFC fans about how "pure" their sport is compared to the corruption in boxing.
 
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