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[mckmas8808]

Funnily enough MS during the FTC trial where telling the judge that streaming was only being used for trying out games, and most where still playing locally.

Yep! So it makes you wonder why certain "people" keep telling us streaming games is Xbox's main future and that console sales don't matter.

 

[Mr Moose]

PS5 in beast mode, Switch doing really well with only 8.5% drop YTD.

Literally nobody is streaming gamepass games. So, you still need hardware.

 

[DeepEnigma]

PS5 in beast mode, Switch doing really well with only 8.5% drop YTD.

CMA be like,

 

[Rockman33]

• XBS being down more in its third year than Switch in its 7th year is blowing my mind
• Its good to see both physical and digital sales increasing
• Data shows the importance of deep discounts on pushing digital sales
• This was Pikmin's chance to break out, bit it hadn't done it in the UK.

Nintendo released TOTK and Xbox released Redfall. Makes sense to me

 

[mckmas8808]

Down 22% in your strongest territory outside the US with your, self proclaimed, biggest game launching in less than a month?

Well...........to be fair these sales are for July. Not August.

Not good in one of its more favourable markets.

I'd expect more with Starfield and gamepass but it does feel like a PC game more than console. Perhaps reviews and word of mouth can help the new ip.

Really? Why do you say that? Doesn't look that PC-only like to me.

Xbox console sales should be trending up with Starfield right around the corner. This isn't a good look

But then again, majority of people know by now that you can just spend a dollar and play Starfield. A hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new console

Doesn't sound good for Xbox revenue if true.

 

[Nothing1234]

I wouldnt sound the alarm until starfield comes out and xbox underperforms.

That said, this is not a good look considering they had a fairly decent showing at e3.

Irrelevant tbh.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well...........to be fair these sales are for July. Not August.

That's true. Console sales narrative will matter again if the Xbox improves big time.

 

[AJUMP23]

I am sure a 22% drop in sales is concerning to MS, I wonder what the next quarter for them will bring with a major tentpole release. Sony really seems to be killing it with their advertising and market capture.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That said, this is not a good look considering they had a fairly decent showing at e3.

Shows don't sell systems but games do. That's the issue with saying that a showcase will help sell systems.

 

[jm89]

PS5 in beast mode, Switch doing really well with only 8.5% drop YTD.

This is probaly why MS probably will be relucatant to do a cloud divestment in the UK. Gonna be a hard pill to swallow with where they are pushing into gaming.

 

[leo-j]

Really hope ps4 gets to 120 million! I doubt it but Sony is apparently making more units which is leading to much better sales in Europe and Japan than a year ago!

 

[mckmas8808]

I am sure a 22% drop in sales is concerning to MS, I wonder what the next quarter for them will bring with a major tentpole release. Sony really seems to be killing it with their advertising and market capture.

It shocks me that there are so many video game media people that seem to think hardware sales mean nothing to MS nowadays. It's like they all drank the Kool-Aid.

 

[balls of snow]

erm....isnt starfield one of the biggest game coming out soon? Series performance doesnt look good for Microsoft, unless people starts to buy series consoles this month?

Not even a series x starfield limited edition or bundle announce. I mean, just go pc only at this point ms.

 

[Woopah]

erm....isnt starfield one of the biggest game coming out soon? Series performance doesnt look good for Microsoft, unless people starts to buy series consoles this month?

Ganes rarely push sales before they come out. We'll see the Starfield eeffect in September.

My fellow UK'ers have extremly bad/boring taste in games.

The fact that old call of dutys are charting will make the queen roll over in her grave.

Pikmin is doing better in Spain and France, so hopefully they are more indicative of its European performance.

Nintendo released TOTK and Xbox released Redfall. Makes sense to me

Nintendo has had a stronger year for exclusives, but I was expecting Switch's age to have more of an impact on hardware

 

[Unknown?]

I am sure a 22% drop in sales is concerning to MS, I wonder what the next quarter for them will bring with a major tentpole release. Sony really seems to be killing it with their advertising and market capture.

I think they'll create an add-on that boosts its power ala Sega 32X to gain more mindshare.

 

[Horseganador]

UK July 2023:
-PS5 58k
-NSW 29k
-X|S 23k

 

[Klosshufvud]

My nephews still play on the PS4. I can hear the jet engine going off all the way from the living room. Feeling pretty bad for the poor kids. Cheapest ass console construction ever.

 

[onQ123]

PS4 waking up from under a tree to run a few more laps after seeing how slow Series S/X was moving lol

 

[DeepEnigma]

PS4 waking up from under a tree to run a few more laps after seeing how slow Series S/X was moving lol

You do know how that story ends, tho, right?

Wayment, explains the "thought experiment."

 

[onQ123]

You do know how that story ends, tho, right?

Wayment, explains the "thought experiment."

The thing is PS4 finished it's race & was sleeping on the other side of the finish line woke up & could still see Series S\X hadn't made it far in the next gen race & jumped up to run with them again lol

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Xbox just keep falling. Will be interesting to see if StarField has any major effect (assuming it’s good).

If new software doesn’t boost it I guess they’re just screwed.

I don't know about the UK and Europe, but here in the US there is virtually no marketing for Starfield outside of the Samsung x Game Pass adverts. Which IIRC are just online, because I haven't seen them pop up on TV yet.

That advert literally says "No console required". Whoever is Xbox's marketing "genius", should be summarily fired. Way to kill your own console hardware sales.

And like you said, if hardware sales don't see a jump with Starfield then Xbox is in really deep trouble because so far none of their 2024 1P games (that we know of so far) have selling power like Starfield. Hellblade 2 will not move systems, same with Avowed. MS doesn't have a lot of big 3P AAA marketing deals, the closest seems to be Persona 3 Remake and (maybe) Metaphor. But those are incredibly niche compared to, say, Hogwarts Legacy, SF6, or RE4 Remake.

I have increasing doubts & concerns regarding Sony/PS5 going forward (mainly in terms of volume and release schedule of traditional AAA & AA games, and being slow to do substantive gaming acquisitions, share purchases & investments of bigger 3P devs/pubs), but that doesn't mean MS & Xbox are looking too good. In fact, it's looking kind of dire for Xbox at least until they can get any other heavyweights out of Zenimax (and per the leaked emails, make them exclusive even if they told regulators otherwise) and ABK, which are at least 2-3 years off.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Even if Starfield is a 10/10 game, it won't be enough to shift momentum long enough for the Series X.

You need sustained delivery of major titles.

That's why even games like Baldur's Gate won't shift the needle for Sony. It's never just one game anymore. OG Xbox was able to shift 30 million units largely on the back of Halo, but even 360 needed Forza and Gears of War to help take it to the next level. That combined with being the foqal point of FPS and WRPG in western countries really helped.

All comes down to mindshare and Starfield alone isn't going to change that. We've already discussed at length that many people are going to play this on PC rather than buying a console. So as well as it might do with existing consumers, it's not going to drive hardware sales and as a result will largely be forgotten by the end of the year.

It's also going to be compared immediately to both Baldur's Gate and Spider-Man 2. That's a hard sandwich to be in the middle of. They've got to hope Spider-Man 2 is a complete flop.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hogwarts Legacy is probably the biggest game of the year and no one is talking about it today.

September and October are HUGE months for Microsoft/Xbox.

 

[yazenov]

My nephews still play on the PS4. I can hear the jet engine going off all the way from the living room. Feeling pretty bad for the poor kids. Cheapest ass console construction ever.

Do them a solid and get them a PS5 . They will remember your kindness for life when they grow up.

 

[MasterCornholio]

They've got to hope Spider-Man 2 is a complete flop.

I'm pretty sure they know that's not going to happen.

 

[Spitfire098]

Series consoles selling this bad this close to starfields launch?!?

 

[X-Wing]

What baffles me is that despite the absolute miserable sales Microsoft increased the price of the series consoles.

 

[Heisenberg007]

What baffles me is that despite the absolute miserable sales Microsoft increased the price of the series consoles.

I have a theory that Microsoft has tightened the noose around Xbox and is now demanding better financial returns.

There are multiple evidence of it and even hints by Phil Spencer that point to that. Increasing Xbox console price is a result of that, in my opinion.

 

[Klosshufvud]

Do them a solid and get them a PS5 . They will remember your kindness for life when they grow up.

I actually told the oldest of them I'd get him a PS5 if his grades were good. Gotta liberate the little bastards from the eternal torment of cheap ass fans that give you tinnitus.

 

[frahko]

What? No totk in the top10????

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Series consoles selling this bad this close to starfields launch?!?

seems console sales have reached the saturation point, since the once that have GP have the console. This doesnt look too good if Starfield cant spark sales of the console.

 

[Spitfire098]

seems console sales have reached the saturation point, since the once that have GP have the console. This doesnt look too good if Starfield cant spark sales of the console.

Probably, but I would assume a new Bethesda game launching would drum up more sales of xboxes. These games come out every once in a blue moon.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Probably, but I would assume a new Bethesda game launching would drum up more sales of xboxes. These games come out every once in a blue moon.

Its on PC, so maybe thats the outlier.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Even if Starfield is a 10/10 game, it won't be enough to shift momentum long enough for the Series X.

You need sustained delivery of major titles.

That's why even games like Baldur's Gate won't shift the needle for Sony. It's never just one game anymore. OG Xbox was able to shift 30 million units largely on the back of Halo, but even 360 needed Forza and Gears of War to help take it to the next level. That combined with being the foqal point of FPS and WRPG in western countries really helped.

All comes down to mindshare and Starfield alone isn't going to change that. We've already discussed at length that many people are going to play this on PC rather than buying a console. So as well as it might do with existing consumers, it's not going to drive hardware sales and as a result will largely be forgotten by the end of the year.

It's also going to be compared immediately to both Baldur's Gate and Spider-Man 2. That's a hard sandwich to be in the middle of. They've got to hope Spider-Man 2 is a complete flop.

TBF, I don't think PS5 needs anything to shift the needle, if talking purely among consoles. I get the point of the analog though, and agree with it. The "killer app" days are long gone. I don't think any one single game has changed a system's fortunes or cemented it as the bona-fide success for its generation since Super Mario 64, or maybe arguably Halo 3.

And the latter is debatable because I'd say it was the combination of Gears of War/Halo 3/COD marketing rights that actually helped cement 360 that gen, not just Halo 3 on its own.

I have a theory that Microsoft has tightened the noose around Xbox and is now demanding better financial returns.

There are multiple evidence of it and even hints by Phil Spencer that point to that. Increasing Xbox console price is a result of that, in my opinion.

Next stop: Xbox NUC gaming PC Station.

I think it's gonna happen anytime between 2025-2026 if the combination of Zenimax & ABK in full effect don't appear to do much to change console sales trajectory for Xbox.

Especially after the cost of getting both publishers, Satya and Brad, and the rest of the board, want to start seeing actual profits from the division. Increasing profit margins off a shrinking volume of hardware is one way to do it, but that hardware has to provide something consoles typically don't.

But if/when the switch comes, we won't be calling Xboxes 'consoles' anymore.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Next stop: Xbox NUC gaming PC Station.

I think it's gonna happen anytime between 2025-2026 if the combination of Zenimax & ABK in full effect don't appear to do much to change console sales trajectory for Xbox.

Especially after the cost of getting both publishers, Satya and Brad, and the rest of the board, want to start seeing actual profits from the division. Increasing profit margins off a shrinking volume of hardware is one way to do it, but that hardware has to provide something consoles typically don't.

But if/when the switch comes, we won't be calling Xboxes 'consoles' anymore.

I have been thinking XBOX was gonna go this direction. Low cost XBOX gaming PCs, with publishing of games to other consoles.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I have been thinking XBOX was gonna go this direction. Low cost XBOX gaming PCs, with publishing of games to other consoles.

It makes the most sense IMHO. The whole purpose of Xbox was to bring about DirectX to game developers. DirectX is synonymous with PC and has way more presence in console due to Xbox. The "living room battle" is over; Sony & Nintendo are well entrenched in that space for consoles. Tablets, smartphones and streaming apps took over for non-gaming. But, at least now way more devs/pubs bring their games to PC (including many Japanese 3P over the past 5-6 years), in a lot of cases Day 1.

When looking at it from that context continuing Xbox as a traditional console is redundant for Microsoft. They could try to "spend Sony out of business" but is that really worth it versus trying to get a real footprint in mobile? Is it really worth it knowing in doing so you'd kill off a platform that constitutes most of your gaming revenue for what games aren't console exclusive to Xbox? Is it really worth it through sinking tens of billions of more dollars into the division in the hopes of maybe accomplishing that task, when it's already got a tab of almost $80 billion to pay back?

There isn't much point for Xbox as a traditional console anymore. But that doesn't mean they can't keep making Xbox gaming hardware (NUC-style gaming PCs, laptops, controllers, mini fridges etc.).

 

[mckmas8808]

I have been thinking XBOX was gonna go this direction. Low cost XBOX gaming PCs, with publishing of games to other consoles.

This will be the ONLY way to get GamePass on Playstation. MS would have to abandon all hardware sales in order to make this a possiblity.

 

[alphachino]

This Cerny guy is a beast.

The most exciting part of the forthcoming PS5 Pro or PS6 for me is listening to Cerny talk while taking a bath.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

You do know how that story ends, tho, right?

Wayment, explains the "thought experiment."

The turtle buys out the rabbit? Man that story has really changed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The turtle buys out the rabbit? Man that story has really changed.

Library of Congress Aesop Fables

The Tortoise meanwhile kept going slowly but steadily, and, after a time, passed the place where the Hare was sleeping. But the Hare slept on very peacefully; and when at last he did wake up, the Tortoise was near the goal. The Hare now ran his swiftest, but he could not overtake the Tortoise in time.

 

[alphachino]

What baffles me is that despite the absolute miserable sales Microsoft increased the price of the series consoles.

I think Sony faked them the fuck out here and played a master-stroke. There was no reason for Jimbo to increase the price of PS5 by a little only to drop it sharply shortly after. Jimbo really f-ed MS in the A for their lecherous, copying, tasteless ways.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Library of Congress Aesop Fables

I guess my joke didn't land. I know how it goes lol. I was saying the turtle is Ms and ms's current strategy is to buy the market.

 

[Vox Machina]

CMA be like,

Why? Wouldn't this just increase access to the game?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This will be the ONLY way to get GamePass on Playstation. MS would have to abandon all hardware sales in order to make this a possiblity.

Not hardware, per se. If MS transitioned Xbox to PC gaming devices (meaning no more console exclusives for Xbox, able to run Steam/GOG/EGS etc. on Xbox the same as on PC, pricing Xbox more like a SFF NUC-style OEM PC etc.), Sony would not bat an eye and immediately allow Game Pass on PlayStation.

Same with Nintendo with it on their systems. At that point it's just extra money for them.

I guess my joke didn't land. I know how it goes lol. I was saying the turtle is Ms and ms's current strategy is to buy the market.

But MS can't keep buying up the market. At some point even the most corrupt regulators will have to ask "You've bought Zenimax. You've bought ABK. You've bought Sega/Atlus (potentially, at this rate). What the hell do you mean you still can't compete!? Get out of my courtroom!!".

If someone keeps buying stuff while seeing little to negative results, maybe the problem is they've got more money than common sense, and it's an upper management issue. No amount of buying the market could fix that, so why enable them to keep buying the market?

 

[Vox Machina]

This will be the ONLY way to get GamePass on Playstation. MS would have to abandon all hardware sales in order to make this a possiblity.

Nah, we could see DMA/DMCC-style regulation force open the console store markets. There's a lot of regulatory interest in the gaming market now. Was only a matter of time.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

TBF, I don't think PS5 needs anything to shift the needle, if talking purely among consoles. I get the point of the analog though, and agree with it. The "killer app" days are long gone. I don't think any one single game has changed a system's fortunes or cemented it as the bona-fide success for its generation since Super Mario 64, or maybe arguably Halo 3.

And the latter is debatable because I'd say it was the combination of Gears of War/Halo 3/COD marketing rights that actually helped cement 360 that gen, not just Halo 3 on its own.

The N64 has far greater exclusives relative to the PS1 than the XSeries. Mario 64, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda 64, Animal Crossing, GoldenEye, and Westling titles.

That being said, I do think the PS5 is missing titles that would take it outside of its established demographics. The PS2 had the DVD and the PS3 even had the bluray. The Wii and Switch have things to compel casual gamers to buy. Sony is really missing the boat on that, but they have the Xbox Series' number competing for the same space.

I think that is why Sony is coming out with Project Q. So they can sell to families who don't want to tie up the TV or play in the living room. I think it'll fail though, but look at the Dual Sense Edge...

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm pretty sure they know that's not going to happen.

Both companies seem pretty confident, but all things being equal Spider-Man is going to win.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Both companies seem pretty confident, but all things being equal Spider-Man is going to win.

I can see it not doing as well as the first game but nowhere near a flop. That's just my opinion.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I can see it not doing as well as the first game but nowhere near a flop. That's just my opinion.

I mean after the success of Miles Morales, I can't imagine this game not doing well.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The N64 has far greater exclusives relative to the PS1 than the XSeries. Mario 64, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda 64, Animal Crossing, GoldenEye, and Westling titles.

That being said, I do think the PS5 is missing titles that would take it outside of its established demographics. The PS2 had the DVD and the PS3 even had the bluray. The Wii and Switch have things to compel casual gamers to buy. Sony is really missing the boat on that, but they have the Xbox Series' number competing for the same space.

I think that is why Sony is coming out with Project Q. So they can sell to families who don't want to tie up the TV or play in the living room. I think it'll fail though, but look at the Dual Sense Edge...

Do you mean the N64 had stronger exclusives relative PS1, than Series X/S have relative to PS5? If that's the case, I'd agree wholeheartedly.

For me I think Sony's problem is not enough mid-tier/AA 1P titles, and not leveraging legacy IP enough. I also think their PC strategy is somewhat flawed, and they're jumping in too headstrong on GaaS titles (instead of say, 12 GaaS to 13 traditional, it should've been balanced as 18 traditional to 7 GaaS). I also get the increasing feeling they're taking some of their Japanese support for granted, in terms of getting exclusive games & content from that side, or even being the leading platform in some cases. Things that help give PS points of distinguishing in the market place, basically.

Project Q should've been a PS4-level portable. Basically what the Nomad was for the Genesis/Megadrive but with much better battery life and slimmer form factor, obviously. Something to play all PS4 games on the go natively, and maybe even some PS5 games assuming they aren't high-performance types (otherwise those would have to be streamed via cloud and Remote Play).

A device like that, they could've sold for $349 or $399 sold at a profit. Doesn't need high volumes of production like a PS5, but would guarantee a larger volume than the PSVR2 easily. Could probably do 25-30 million lifetime for that type of device, conservative estimate. Maybe 40-45 million in a best-case, but we're talking about something with a 6-7 year lifespan. Yes those are nowhere near Switch numbers but they wouldn't need to be; the only new games would be low-performance PS5 games that can scale easily to it, and cross-gen games (likely annual sports releases, or new indie titles, etc.). Just give it a really good screen and buttons, great wifi features and make it pair nicely with PS4 & PS5 systems and it's good.

Even better is, they could also repurpose the hardware for a high-end smartphone variant distributed with mobile carriers on subscription plans, and models sold directly with large profit margins. With that mixed in they could absolutely hit 40 or so million over a 6-7 year period between that and a more gaming-centric model. I just hope Project Q is a warm-up to an eventual, actual PS4-type handheld, but I have large doubts it'll ever happen now.