RustyNails
Member
New thread for the major development in Libya. Lets shift the discussion here. On 3/17/2011, The United Nations Security Council adopted Resolution 1973, authorizing the establishment of No-Fly-Zone over Libya, and enforcement of the resolution with military action of the Allied force. The UNSC resolution 1973 passed with 10 votes in favor, 5 abstentions and 0 not in favor. The complete tally is listed below:
In Favor:
United States (PM)
Britain (PM)
France (PM)
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Colombia
Gabon
Lebanon
Nigeria
Portugal
South Africa
Abstentions:
Russia (PM)
China (PM)
Germany
Brazil
India
Not in Favor:
(none)
PM stands for Permanent Members of the UNSC. Full text of the resolution can be found here, thanks to NullPointer. If you want more information on Libyan No-Fly-Zone adopted by the UNSC, here's a wiki to it. Country by country operations are listed below (thanks to DrForester):
France - Operation Harmattan
United Kingdom - Operation Ellamy
United States Of America - Operation Odyssey Dawn
Canada - Operation MOBILE
Onwards.
Operation Odyssey Dawn commences to end Gaddafi onslaught on Benghazi
Allied Forces
UK: Providing Typhoon and Tornado jet fighters; surveillance planes; HMS Westminster and HMS Cumberland; submarines
France: Carried out mission with at least 12 warplanes including Mirage fighters and Rafale jets; deploying aircraft carrier, warships
US: Firing guided missiles from USS Barry and USS Stout; providing amphibious warships, and command-and-control ship USS Mount Whitney
Italy: Nato base at Naples understood to be central hub; other Mediterranean bases made available
Canada: Providing six F-18 fighter jets and 140 personnel
(thanks danwarb, if I may steal your post)
++FAQ++
What is the context behind UN's actions? Why did it came to this?
Tunisian style peaceful pro-democracy movement started in Libya right around when protests were erupting all over middle east. It lasted for couple of weeks where it grew bigger and bigger each passing day. One fine day, in the city of Benghazi (where the first demonstrations took place), Col. Gaddafi used his military to bomb the peaceful demonstrators. Not police, not thugs, but military (and para-military which was made up of paid foreign mercenaries...the rate was $2000/day). Col. Gaddafi declared war against his own people and started shelling and bombing them left and right. Couple of airforce pilots defected early on, refusing to bomb their fellow citizens. Few other soldiers, infantry and support also defected. The demonstrators now became armed civilians engaging in warfare against their military. This rebel movement had rapid early success and captured almost all of the towns and cities in Libya, but then Gaddafi launched a merciless, scorched earth counter-assault against the rebels, retaking many of the rebel held towns. Gaddafi's army now surrounded Benghazi (second most populous city) and gave 48 hour ultimatum to rebels holed up in there, promising that if they dont surrender, people will be hunted down like rats, door by door, cleansed out, etc. This made international flags going on red alert, as everyone was looking at a planned massacre, or maybe another Rwanda. This provided the impetus for the UNSC to institute No Fly Zone over Libya in order to immediately halt Gaddafi.
Why did US get involved?
US as a permanent member of UNSC voted in favor of the No Fly Zone, but said to be in a "supporting role". It has been France that is leading the airstrike campaign. President Obama was criticized early on for not being forceful enough against Gaddafi, and Sen. John McCain said that No Fly Zone should have been instituted weeks ago. USA was instrumental in consensus building at UNSC in order to reach a unilateral agreement with other international powers.
Is this another Iraq/Afghanistan war? Will it turn into one?
No, it isn't. Operation Odyssey dawn is a response to Gaddafi's actions, not an unprovoked aggression. This operation has the backing of UN, NATO, African Union, European Union, Arab League and Organization of Islamic Conference. This is a truly international, legitimate action under most of the international governing bodies. Few countries see it illegal, such as Venezuela. This is also not a ground campaign. It's only an aerial campaign. There will be no US/EU NATO boots on the ground.
Will it worsen our image as meddling in middle-east again?
Possibly. There's always that risk involved. But the rebel movement has the full support of Muslim and Arab countries. One of the top Sheikhs in Egypt said it's OK to take out Gaddafi in a fatwa. NATO involvement is seen as coming to the aid of pinned down rebels and citizens of Libya.
But isn't this action seen hypocritical and selective, since in Bahrain and Yemen, the protesters are being shot and killed everyday? Why hasn't UN/NATO attacked those countries? Why Libya? Aha! It must be the oil.
It is not the oil. USA and Europe already had cozy relationship with Gaddafi and his oil fields. Taking such a destabilizing course of action against Gaddafi is bound to send Oil prices skyrocketing into stratosphere. If all the west cared about was Oil, it wouldn't have taken such a destabilizing course of action and instead continued having the good relations with Gaddafi and his oilfields, and also kept oil prices in check. If all it cared about was oil, it wouldn't have shot itself in the foot. The situations in Bahrain and Yemen (and Syria) are different than Libya. In those countries, the leaders have not used military against the protesters. President Saleh of Yemen hasn't sent in airforce to bomb demonstrators in Sana. Those leaders are using paid thugs, police and security apparatus to clamp down the protests. As long as the military isn't involved, the problems in those countries are seen as internal issues, which is why the reason for stakes in Egypt were so high. Because the tanks rolled into Tahrir Square and everyone sat up and considered a possible massacre. Had the military opened fire on protesters, UN would have been asked to take action. Secondly, as answered in the first question, Col. Gaddafi was looking at a campaign of "cleansing" in Bengazi.
Where can I watch documentaries/videos on Libya's revolution?
BBC Panorama - Fighting Gaddafi - Part 1
BBC Panorama - Fighting Gaddafi - Part 2 Thanks to poster DECK'ARD for bringing this to our attention.
Anything else I should know?
Yes. This isn't Iraq War 2003. Read Juan Cole's ten reasons why it isn't. Also read this post by a GAF member from Beirut, Lebanon.
.
On-going wiki, subject to change
President Obama's address on Libya.
In Favor:
United States (PM)
Britain (PM)
France (PM)
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Colombia
Gabon
Lebanon
Nigeria
Portugal
South Africa
Abstentions:
Russia (PM)
China (PM)
Germany
Brazil
India
Not in Favor:
(none)
PM stands for Permanent Members of the UNSC. Full text of the resolution can be found here, thanks to NullPointer. If you want more information on Libyan No-Fly-Zone adopted by the UNSC, here's a wiki to it. Country by country operations are listed below (thanks to DrForester):
France - Operation Harmattan
United Kingdom - Operation Ellamy
United States Of America - Operation Odyssey Dawn
Canada - Operation MOBILE
Onwards.
Operation Odyssey Dawn commences to end Gaddafi onslaught on Benghazi
Allied Forces
UK: Providing Typhoon and Tornado jet fighters; surveillance planes; HMS Westminster and HMS Cumberland; submarines
France: Carried out mission with at least 12 warplanes including Mirage fighters and Rafale jets; deploying aircraft carrier, warships
US: Firing guided missiles from USS Barry and USS Stout; providing amphibious warships, and command-and-control ship USS Mount Whitney
Italy: Nato base at Naples understood to be central hub; other Mediterranean bases made available
Canada: Providing six F-18 fighter jets and 140 personnel
(thanks danwarb, if I may steal your post)
++FAQ++
What is the context behind UN's actions? Why did it came to this?
Tunisian style peaceful pro-democracy movement started in Libya right around when protests were erupting all over middle east. It lasted for couple of weeks where it grew bigger and bigger each passing day. One fine day, in the city of Benghazi (where the first demonstrations took place), Col. Gaddafi used his military to bomb the peaceful demonstrators. Not police, not thugs, but military (and para-military which was made up of paid foreign mercenaries...the rate was $2000/day). Col. Gaddafi declared war against his own people and started shelling and bombing them left and right. Couple of airforce pilots defected early on, refusing to bomb their fellow citizens. Few other soldiers, infantry and support also defected. The demonstrators now became armed civilians engaging in warfare against their military. This rebel movement had rapid early success and captured almost all of the towns and cities in Libya, but then Gaddafi launched a merciless, scorched earth counter-assault against the rebels, retaking many of the rebel held towns. Gaddafi's army now surrounded Benghazi (second most populous city) and gave 48 hour ultimatum to rebels holed up in there, promising that if they dont surrender, people will be hunted down like rats, door by door, cleansed out, etc. This made international flags going on red alert, as everyone was looking at a planned massacre, or maybe another Rwanda. This provided the impetus for the UNSC to institute No Fly Zone over Libya in order to immediately halt Gaddafi.
Why did US get involved?
US as a permanent member of UNSC voted in favor of the No Fly Zone, but said to be in a "supporting role". It has been France that is leading the airstrike campaign. President Obama was criticized early on for not being forceful enough against Gaddafi, and Sen. John McCain said that No Fly Zone should have been instituted weeks ago. USA was instrumental in consensus building at UNSC in order to reach a unilateral agreement with other international powers.
Is this another Iraq/Afghanistan war? Will it turn into one?
No, it isn't. Operation Odyssey dawn is a response to Gaddafi's actions, not an unprovoked aggression. This operation has the backing of UN, NATO, African Union, European Union, Arab League and Organization of Islamic Conference. This is a truly international, legitimate action under most of the international governing bodies. Few countries see it illegal, such as Venezuela. This is also not a ground campaign. It's only an aerial campaign. There will be no US/EU NATO boots on the ground.
Will it worsen our image as meddling in middle-east again?
Possibly. There's always that risk involved. But the rebel movement has the full support of Muslim and Arab countries. One of the top Sheikhs in Egypt said it's OK to take out Gaddafi in a fatwa. NATO involvement is seen as coming to the aid of pinned down rebels and citizens of Libya.
But isn't this action seen hypocritical and selective, since in Bahrain and Yemen, the protesters are being shot and killed everyday? Why hasn't UN/NATO attacked those countries? Why Libya? Aha! It must be the oil.
It is not the oil. USA and Europe already had cozy relationship with Gaddafi and his oil fields. Taking such a destabilizing course of action against Gaddafi is bound to send Oil prices skyrocketing into stratosphere. If all the west cared about was Oil, it wouldn't have taken such a destabilizing course of action and instead continued having the good relations with Gaddafi and his oilfields, and also kept oil prices in check. If all it cared about was oil, it wouldn't have shot itself in the foot. The situations in Bahrain and Yemen (and Syria) are different than Libya. In those countries, the leaders have not used military against the protesters. President Saleh of Yemen hasn't sent in airforce to bomb demonstrators in Sana. Those leaders are using paid thugs, police and security apparatus to clamp down the protests. As long as the military isn't involved, the problems in those countries are seen as internal issues, which is why the reason for stakes in Egypt were so high. Because the tanks rolled into Tahrir Square and everyone sat up and considered a possible massacre. Had the military opened fire on protesters, UN would have been asked to take action. Secondly, as answered in the first question, Col. Gaddafi was looking at a campaign of "cleansing" in Bengazi.
Where can I watch documentaries/videos on Libya's revolution?
BBC Panorama - Fighting Gaddafi - Part 1
BBC Panorama - Fighting Gaddafi - Part 2 Thanks to poster DECK'ARD for bringing this to our attention.
Anything else I should know?
Yes. This isn't Iraq War 2003. Read Juan Cole's ten reasons why it isn't. Also read this post by a GAF member from Beirut, Lebanon.
Paradoxal_Utopia said:
On-going wiki, subject to change
President Obama's address on Libya.
