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[entremet]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...recedented-academic-fraud-case-will-test-ncaa

Drake Group president Gerald Gurney and two colleagues researched every NCAA academic fraud case since the Division I infractions committee began in 1953. Gurney has little doubt where North Carolina's academic scandal stands in NCAA history.

"I can assure you the depth and breadth and sheer numbers of affected athletes is in fact the largest and the most egregious case of academic fraud by far in NCAA history," said Gurney, who has been an athletic department compliance director and run academic support programs for athletes

North Carolina's bogus African-American Studies classes for approximately 1,500 athletes over 18 years will test the effectiveness and credibility of NCAA enforcement at a time when some major conference commissioners have discussed outsourcing the discipline.

"This is going to be the first really big test for the penalty matrix and the new structure that was designed to tackle the most serious cases," said attorney Michael Buckner, who runs a sports law firm that has worked on NCAA cases. "I think the NCAA, because of the scrutiny the enforcement staff has gone under, will take a very cautious and thorough approach to it. We all know in this business that academic fraud is one of, if not the most, serious allegation you can make."

The NCAA, which announced in June it had reopened the North Carolina case once key witnesses began cooperating, will use Kenneth Wainstein's report into the scandal.

In recent months, the NCAA has said it wants to enforce violations that most seriously threaten the college model, including academic fraud. The enforcement staff added an academic integrity unit led by assistant director of enforcement Kathy Sulentic, who previously worked in athletic academic advising at Nebraska and Colorado.

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I'm sure UNC isn't the only university doing this. They just got caught.

But this beyond professor's giving easy grades and students taking easy classes. These were fake classes. You just needed to turn in one paper at the end of the semester.

Additionally, not only student athletes benefitted, but rank and file students, for 18 years!

 

[ito007]

Reminds me of that Rosa Parks essay. It's both hilarious and disappointing that it got an A-

Essay is linked here in case anyone wants a laugh

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...ot_a_unc_jock_an_a_here_s_the_real_story.html

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Drake Group?

 

[Future PhaZe]

5 year basketball post season ban would sting

 

[MattPeters]

Death penalty incoming?

 

[terrisus]

"Will test the NCAA?"

It won't be anything significant.

 

[entremet]

Reminds me of that Rosa Parks essay. It's both hilarious and disappointing that it got an A-

It's an academic integrity firm that conducts investigations on universities.

Death penalty incoming?

Youngs boys were molested for years in Penn State and they didn't get the DP.

I can't imagine UNC getting it. Probably post season ban and possible title vacancies.

 

[timetokill]

probably won't get punished more than USC did

 

[SliceSabre]

NCAA is corrupt as all hell and they won't do a damn thing that has any lasting impact. Hell they had someone literally raping young boys at Penn State and basically gave that school's program a slap on the wrist.

 

[Chumly]

Death penalty incoming?

For all North Carolina sports? Would be interesting but I doubt it will happen.

 

[ito007]

Youngs boys were molested for years in Penn State and they didn't get the DP.

Not only that, they got there penalties reduced.

 

[DopeToast]

The death penalty or a few-year post-season ban on a program like UNC would send a message, that's for sure. The sad thing is that I'm sure this happens at a lot of schools, especially one's with huge athletic programs like UNC. I'm a huge Ohio State fan, but I'm not too stupid to think that this kind of thing doesn't happen within the football program, on some level anyway.

 

[Somnid]

There's so much you can read into it being an African American studies class.

 

[Meier]

You definitely have to vacate all of the wins, titles, etc. from players who were involved. They did it to Bobby -- you can't really selectively enforce something like that.

 

[spookyfish]

If I were UNC, I would point to the football team as evidence this allegation isn't true.

Seriously, if you're going to endanger your entire athletics program, at least get some good athletes out of it.

 

[MattPeters]

Youngs boys were molested for years in Penn State and they didn't get the DP.

I can't imagine UNC getting it. Probably post season ban and possible title vacancies.

I thought Penn State got the death penalty. Jesus, the NCAA fucked that up.

 

[entremet]

I thought Penn State got the death penalty. Jesus, the NCAA fucked that up.

They're not going to give the DP to one of their biggest money makers.

The last time they gave the DP was to SMU, which was a much smaller program, although very heralded. The program never recovered since.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

If I were UNC, I would point to the football team as evidence this allegation isn't true.

Seriously, if you're going to endanger your entire athletics program, at least get some good athletes out of it.

And just like every other time the NCAA has been 'tested' on their commitment to academics they will fail this test. And then nothing will come of it because they make the rules and the colleges/broadcasters continue to rake in the millions. UNC will lose scholarships, students will cry foul, coaches will get reshuffled. But the machine will keep operating.

 

[Grexeno]

Just pay the damn athletes and stop bothering with this lie that you're giving them an education for free. As we can see, the practice demands for Division 1A sports, especially big moneymakers like football and basketball, pretty much only leave time for practice and nothing else.

 

[Affeinvasion]

They're not going to give the DP to one of their biggest money makers.

The last time they gave the DP was to SMU, which was a much smaller program, although very heralded. The program never recovered since.

You're thinking of smu. TCU is doing just fine.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Sad, as Black studies had some of my legitimately favorite classes in undergrad. Let it all burn.

 

[entremet]

You're thinking of smu. TCU is doing just fine.

Yep. I edited. I confused the two.

 

[AoM]

Just pay the damn athletes and stop bothering with this lie that you're giving them an education for free. As we can see, the practice demands for Division 1A sports, especially big moneymakers like football and basketball, pretty much only leave time for practice and nothing else.

Yet other student athletes within those two do just fine taking legitimate classes.

 

[entremet]

There's so much you can read into it being an African American studies class.

Apparently the professor behind this racket felt bad for the students. She knew their academic skills weren't up to par and wanted them to have prospect for the pros.

She knew remediation wasn't enough. The students basically ''passed'' HS due to their talents as well. It goes deep.

 

[Burt]

I hope this prompts some sort of chain reaction and every school that does this (read: every school) gets caught and the NCAA ends up fucking itself.

 

[Hexa]

Wait, so only Athlete's got As in the class automatically?
At my college we also have an African-American studies class where no one has to put in any work but everyone still gets As. Loads of people take it to knock out a gen ed requirement.

 

[xbhaskarx]

This has been known for years and the NCAA hasn't done anything about it.

Death penalty incoming?

No, because UNC is too important in college basketball. If it was a smaller school, sure.

 

[Jarrod38]

I could see the death penalty coming down on some of their sports.

 

[Owensboro]

It's an academic integrity firm that conducts investigations on universities.



Youngs boys were molested for years in Penn State and they didn't get the DP.

I can't imagine UNC getting it. Probably post season ban and possible title vacancies.

To be fair: Molesting boys has absolutely nothing with making your sports team better. The Penn State sanctions were probably lessened because of that, and all of the real legal penalties that were imposed on the school (multiple firings, lawsuits, $$$ paid, reputations tarnished, etc..).

If the NCAA doesn't punish UNC for blatantly cheating to make their sports programs better then something is completely fucked up. That's like, the whole damn point of the NCAA in the first place. If they don't punish it, then they better completely give up on the whole "student athlete" charade.

 

[entremet]

Wait, so only Athlete's got As in the class automatically?
At my college we also have an African-American studies class where no one has to put in any work but everyone still gets As. Loads of people take it to knock out a gen ed requirement.

Athletes and the rank and file students.

 

[Cagey]

To be fair: Molesting boys has absolutely nothing with making your sports team better. The Penn State sanctions were probably lessened because of that, and all of the real legal penalties that were imposed on the school (multiple firings, lawsuits, $$$ paid, reputations tarnished, etc..).

If the NCAA doesn't punish UNC for blatantly cheating to make their sports programs better then something is completely fucked up. That's like, the whole damn point of the NCAA in the first place. If they don't punish it, then they better completely give up on the whole "student athlete" charade.

Penn State deserved everything that happened to them and far worse, but your point in the end is ultimately correct: the NCAA is garbage, but the only reason it exists is for the organization and governance of college sports. If they can't even get this right, it's a farce.

Also, does this finally kill the "student-athlete" myth as it pertains to the NCAA's legal justification for not paying its workers a fair/any wage?

 

[commish]

In one of my classes at college, the professor would give the basketball players calculators for the exam. He'd just walk over and said "here you go, this will make it easier". It wasn't giving them the answers, but it was akin to saving them 30 minutes from a 60 minute exam. I thought that was just how it worked for student athletes.

 

[Owensboro]

Penn State deserved everything that happened to them and far worse, but your point in the end is ultimately correct: the NCAA is garbage, but the only reason it exists is for the organization and governance of college sports. If they can't even get this right, it's a farce.

Also, does this finally kill the "student-athlete" myth as it pertains to the NCAA's legal justification for not paying its workers a fair/any wage?

Oh I agree on the Penn State thing, I just can see an argument for why they were lessened. The molestations were covered up in order to protect the football program, that alone means something should have been done.

And holy crap I hope so. The "student-athlete" stuff is such BS.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Quick, get Darren Rovell on the case.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I could see the death penalty coming down on some of their sports.

The NCAA would no more death penalty UNC basketball than they would Penn State football.

 

[Wilsongt]

I guess a particular sport a student athlete is coming from really dictates how this go down. I've taught several student athletes from soccer, tennis, track, swimming, and a few others who were all fine students who did pretty decent work. I've also taught students from those same sports who did shit work. It's never uncommon that you hear about cheerleaders cheating, though. I guess not many football players are going through Biology programs.

 

[Lexad]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...recedented-academic-fraud-case-will-test-ncaa



I'm sure UNC isn't the only university doing this. They just got caught.

But this beyond professor's giving easy grades and students taking easy classes. These were fake classes. You just needed to turn in one paper at the end of the semester.

Additionally, not only student athletes benefitted, but rank and file students, for 18 years!

I know the ncaa has said they won't use the death penalty again but do if there was ever a situation. . .

 

[Crisco]

I see a lot of "this goes on everywhere" type posts, but that's not really true. Do athletes get preferential treatment everywhere? Sure. Deadline leniency, special tutoring, and definitely lots of cheating on individual assignments. This is pretty far beyond that though.

Exhibit A:

This was brazen, premeditated, and widespread cheating spanning nearly 2 decades.

 

[Seth C]

You definitely have to vacate all of the wins, titles, etc. from players who were involved. They did it to Bobby -- you can't really selectively enforce something like that.

It absolutely will not happen. Would erase half of their titles and a quarter of their wins. The NCAA will punish the football program and the minor sports, give a slap on the wrist to the basketball program, and it will be their downfall as other schools leave the NCAA in protest of the favoritism. I believe something like half of the NCAA's infraction board are UNC grads. They will do everything int heir power to make sure nothing drastic happens to their baby.

 

[ahoyle77]

I have family pretty high up with UNC, but don't have any inside knowledge or anything. I find it odd that very few people are talking about John Swofford. He was UNC's AD during much of this, and is now ACC commissioner.

 

[Chizzanger]

In one of my classes at college, the professor would give the basketball players calculators for the exam. He'd just walk over and said "here you go, this will make it easier". It wasn't giving them the answers, but it was akin to saving them 30 minutes from a 60 minute exam. I thought that was just how it worked for student athletes.

Wait what? They got calculators and everyone else didn't?

 

[HeisenbergLannister]

They'll lose a scholarship per year for the next five years.

Roy Williams will use the crocodile tears.

Mark Emmert will continue to be a jackass.

 

[JJDinomite]

It's really no secret that student athletes are just athletes

 

[iamblades]

I know the ncaa has said they won't use the death penalty again but do if there was ever a situation. . .

I think the death penalty is kind of a worthless punishment, as it mostly punishes student athletes after the fact, it also punishes the teams that would have played them by getting less tv viewership or ticket sales.

I think they should be allowed to play, but they should be required to forfeit all their revenue for a substantial period of time. Where this money goes, I dunno, could go to charity or distributed among the rest of the teams that were impacted by UNC's cheating.


Also the wins must be vacated according to precedent. UNC played ineligible athletes, so according to the strict liability standard, none of those games count.

These are the things that made me finally believe that the NCAA will actually be forced into punishing UNC:

The NCAA's initial reasoning for not investigating UNC's academics was because other students were in those classes(which was obvious bullshit even at the time), but the evidence is clear that other students were allowed into those classes EXPLICITLY to conceal the level of academic fraud that was happening in the athletic department.

 

[DietRob]

Ideally they should lose their NCAA status and have to join the Middle Tennessee Raiders, South Alabama Jaguars and the like.

Realistically they will be vacated of some wins, lose a few scholarships and it will be back to business as usual. I do mean business too.

 

[JSizzle]

The NCAA won't touch a golden child like UNC. They knew basketball was involved and completely ignored it. I don't get how they're going to get away with this from an athletics side or how their accrediting body doesn't give a flying fuck.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Not surprising, my friend graduated from there with a minor African american studies which padded the shit out of her GPA. Those classes were a joke from what she used to tell me.

 

[jakncoke]

I know the ncaa has said they won't use the death penalty again but do if there was ever a situation. . .

Im a Penn St fan and know we got lucky(twice), If there was ever a time to give a death penalty it was the Penn St scandal and they didnt. So I believe the NCAA in that they will never use it again.

 

[Seth C]

The NCAA won't touch a golden child like UNC. They knew basketball was involved and completely ignored it. I don't get how they're going to get away with this from an athletics side or how their accrediting body doesn't give a flying fuck.

After seeing some more e-mails, it looks like they were intentionally steering people to these courses to keep them eligible for federal grants as well. If people wanted to bother with it, UNC as an academic institution could probably be pretty much shut down over this. No more accreditation, no more NCAA affiliation, no more federal finding. If they still have a functioning athletic department after this is over, well, it's a shame.

Imagine how much more would be in the report had it been performed by an actual impartial third-party rather than a North Carolina grad.

Of course, ESPN is trying their best to not talk about any of it. Their president? Also a UNC grad. Hmm.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Still will get a more lenient punishment than what USC got.

I mean look at Penn state...