PeakPointMatrix
Member
Hope every news org runs with this. Full PR disaster go go go!
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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat
- Thread starter Korey
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Skellig Gra
Member
That's highly doubtful. People will always want cheap flights.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the fault's on United. You can't just be booting customers from the flights that they paid for because you fucked up.
Unless it's a major safety reason or something, like if the plane's on fire.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
I can't wait to see this...seriously it would be fascinating.
realistically United will settle out of court due to bad publicity if it ever came to that
Well from the standpoint of German law, you are incorrect. Airlines in Germany overbook at well, and they absolutely can prevent you from taking your flight if that's how the situation works out. EU law even has stipulations for how someone is to be compensated in such a case.
Hydranockz
Member
Can you please explain to me why the use of force was necessary in this scenario? Can you justify how the company were not able to determine that this passenger WOULD ACTUALLY RETURN TO THE PLANE without having to physically remove him first? The passengers motivations for travel would not have changed in that time.
You claim he made the situation worse but don't seem to care that the situation he was put in at all was ENTIRELY unnecessary.
They let him on the plane in the end, so why then was there ever a need to call security to forcefully take anyone off?
Okay, but what does that have to do with United fucking everything up and assaulting one of their passengers?
I understand that businesses do have and should have rights over the services they offer. However in exercising those rights, they can completely cock everything up. This isn't a scenario where because United was within their rights to have the passenger removed they're suddenly morally right.
navii
My fantasy is that my girlfriend was actually a young high school girl.
Yeah after flying Japanese airlines you realise how low the bar is on other airlines.
I got a cheap plane ticket from Osaka to Tokyo on ANA so that later that night I can catch my JAL flight to Sydney. The ANA staff at Osaka airport asked for my passport, which I thought was weird since this was a domestic flight, after some fumbling around they informed me they couldn't make it so my luggage would go straight to Sydney. I wasn't even expecting such awesome crazyness since its a completely different airline that I will be going to Sydney on, so I said "thats fine" and went to wait for my plane. Half an hour later when I was waiting at the gate the check in lady came to me and gave me a luggage ticket and said she managed to get my luggage transferred to Sydney so I don't have to worry about it in Tokyo.
Thats some great customer service right there. I have more awesome stories (JAL check in lady walked me to where the bus transfer counter was at Narita airport cos I did not know where it was).
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
yes they can they do it all the time. this is only an issue due to him refusing to leave till it required force to eject him.
If they change the regulations to not allow overbooking great! then it won't happen anymore but till then its the way it is.
Chairmanchuck
Member
You book a room in my home, you gave me the money and i tell you "well. Not on this day. You can live here tomorrow. Now get out."
You refuse to leave and i or a security team drags you out of the room you book for this day.
Would be your fault then, right?
Skellig Gra
Member
They technically can. The ethics of the situation is another story.
ClosingADoor
Member
You are wrong. The EU has the exact same laws. If the flight is overbooked, the airline can refuse you, but has to give some compensation. The terms of your ticket includes all this info.
Hari Seldon
Member
Hopefully his lawyer gets this in front of a jury because there is no jury in the US that will not willingly put the fucking screws to the god damn airlines.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I am aware of that. The thing is that you can sue them for every financial gain you lose thanks to losing your flight if you desire so. Thats how the whole compensation system stems from, it is directly related to the civil law of those countries.
ErasureAcer
Banned
The only way they'll learn. Dude should get at least a million dollars. Bad publicity will cost them 10s of millions more. They whole contact authorities PR stunt is hilariously bad PR.
Audioboxer
Member
Damn, that is bullshit. It's their fault they overbooked. The only acceptable answer should be raising rewards till someone accepts. Doesn't really matter if mandatory ejection is legal, airlines should use methods of (increasing) reward for voluntary leaving.
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
LOL that dude has zero dignity to be dragged out like an animal. Stand up and be a man with a feeling of self worth.
I don't understand how people are defending this shit. You don't throw paying customers, especially violently, off the plane because you fucked up and overbooked and your employees need the seats. Even if the guy wasn't a doctor, it doesn't matter, you don't do that to paying customers. United should have found another solution to get the employees there instead of forcing that upon the customer.
$800 is a pretty shitty reward honestly. Let's say the guy did take it, now he has his trip delayed, and since this was business, he's missing patients and missing out on work, which is already more than $800. Then you also have to count airfare for a new flight, which I would guestimate around $400.
Even with higher rewards...I can't blame people for telling the airline to fuck off when trying to get someone to voluntarily miss their trip unless they have another flight ready to go in the next 30 minutes or something. People make plans, they want to stick to them.
$800 is a pretty shitty reward honestly. Let's say the guy did take it, now he has his trip delayed, and since this was business, he's missing patients and missing out on work, which is already more than $800. Then you also have to count airfare for a new flight, which I would guestimate around $400.
Even with higher rewards...I can't blame people for telling the airline to fuck off when trying to get someone to voluntarily miss their trip unless they have another flight ready to go in the next 30 minutes or something. People make plans, they want to stick to them.
The fuck
:lol
Jury selection would be interesting, they'd be like:
Lawyer: "How tall are you?"
Jurist: "6'7"
Lawyer: "You're in, next!"
Chairmanchuck
Member
The compensation is tied to the civil law of most european countries though. If I miss a day of work, you get compensated for that too e.g.
What exactly are you trying to say?
I am curious what his thought-process here was...
"Maybe if I resist enough they'll let me stay?"
And also, did the computer really pick someone at random, or did they gun directly for the non-white passenger?
Triggerhappytel
Member
Get the fuck outta here with that shit. He'd paid for his seat. He had to travel due to work commitments. I would fucking refuse and throw a tantrum as well if that was me.
Wow. Can we stop with the victim blaming please?!
Actually similar experience with ANA here.
I booked a flight through them and the first leg was, surprise, United. The flight was delayed so i missed my connecting flight from Atlanta to Tokyo. Called ANA, booked me on the next available flight (which was only an hour or so later) from Chicago to Tokyo, changed my connecting flight and my international one was bumped up first class.
I shudder to think how another airline would have handled that...
That's terrible.
What really surprised me, though, is how low their offer was to get volunteers - no wonder no one volunteered for that crappy amount of money when the next flight wasn't until 3pm the next day. You gotta do better than that before you start fucking assaulting people.
I live in the Caribbean and there's two flights down - one in the late evening and one in the early morning. Often the evening flight will be overbooked, and tourists will not give up their seats and miss the start of their holiday. So I just wait for the offer of $600 + a free flight or $1,000 (the two typical offers) and then volunteer, and get the morning flight. End up at work an hour or two late (having told work I missed my flight it's okay) and with an extra grand in my pocket. Love it.
EDIT: I've never travelled United.
What really surprised me, though, is how low their offer was to get volunteers - no wonder no one volunteered for that crappy amount of money when the next flight wasn't until 3pm the next day. You gotta do better than that before you start fucking assaulting people.
I live in the Caribbean and there's two flights down - one in the late evening and one in the early morning. Often the evening flight will be overbooked, and tourists will not give up their seats and miss the start of their holiday. So I just wait for the offer of $600 + a free flight or $1,000 (the two typical offers) and then volunteer, and get the morning flight. End up at work an hour or two late (having told work I missed my flight it's okay) and with an extra grand in my pocket. Love it.
EDIT: I've never travelled United.
They shouldn't have even boarded the flight in the first place. Insane they would board people then remove them. They should have made the offer at the gate and refuse to board until they had enough people to give up seats or up the ante. Also most fucking people don't have the luxury to miss a day of work etc on the weekend for them to pull that bullshit. Especially its for employees they could have put them on a diff carrier etc. this is pure insanity.
Btw United sucks. I'll never fly them against after the experience I had. They lost my suit jacket, and I had multiple delays due to maintenance. A 5 hour trip turned to nearly 13 hours because of them.
Btw United sucks. I'll never fly them against after the experience I had. They lost my suit jacket, and I had multiple delays due to maintenance. A 5 hour trip turned to nearly 13 hours because of them.
Yes, a day off is a day off and if no one volunteers to cover the shift the shift isn't covered.
I'm a nurse by the way, so you'd think it would be easy to force people to come in because patient care and whatever but it's not that easy.
Theoretically people can be forced but for that to happen every nurse in the entire hospital has to refuse to cover the shift, then they have to pick the person who would be affected the least (and they have to be able to defend that choice), then the bosses have to contact the council of personnel representatives and get their okay and then they have to inform the person chosen in writing at least 24 hours before the shift starts.
It's nearly impossible to meet the requirements so it never happens.
I would be interested to see any case law or statutes you can cite for this? Because if EU law specifically allows for this behavior on the airlines' part, it would be strange to me if they weren't indemnified against such suits.
If I were a patient of his, I'd be damn proud he fought like hell to get back to me.
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
What am I trying to say? I'm saying as a doctor he should probably have realized that once multiple security guards come onto the aircraft and tell him if he didn't leave the plane that he would be forcefully removed. Instead of taking the shitty situation like an adult, he decided to go kicking and screaming like a 10 year old in a toy store.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
OMG An Airplane is not a HOME! what a false equivalency.
Your business is a ski-lift..its the last lift of the night but its exceeding the weight capacity due to staff needing to get added to lift at the last minute.(they work at the top of the lift night shift something something bla bla bla so they have to get on the lift.
You use company random policy to have enough people leave to meet safety requirements.
Someone refuse to leave and say fuck you I paid ..you call security and they end up being removed by force.
The company created the scenerio and its shitty for not finding a better alternative.
The people who ended up being removed by force are at fault for the force being needed by refusing to exit the lift when asked.
SIMPLE
Why even let the person on the plane in the first place? You need four seats then stop four people from boarding don't wait until people are already seated. This is pretty fucked up, there must be more to the story. If not United is fucked from a PR aspect and probably in court as well.
ClosingADoor
Member
Over here in Holland you get a set amount and I think those are EU wide rules. Maybe it's different when you make it an actual lawsuit, but in most cases you'd just get the compensation and new tickets. I have never heard of compensation for lost time on work. If that is the case, then I have missed out on some money multiple times. And people I know that travel a lot and got cancelled also never told me about this.
Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah I have seen that in the Caribbean as well, my wife and I were kicking ourselves for not biting on that offer lol. United was being pathetic here.
QuantumDerp
Member
Also, you probably would blames the people that were executed by that Nazis using that logic. "They should've not screamed, cried and followed the nazis soldier so they would not have been forcefully dragged out or executed."
He was probably knocked out after hitting the armrest dangerously.
AlexFlame116
Member
EDIT: I'm gonna read this over again.
Calamari41
41 > 38
The employees stay behind, not the customers.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Only in german and im on mobile now otherwise i could look for cases from my commentary:
http://www.reiserecht-portal.de/luftbefoerderungsvertrag/urteileflugreise.php
Besides that you have the normal civil law compensation according to 280ff. BGB.
More people in here implying that corporate security equates moral highground. Like, if you got enough money to pay for thugs, then you're in the right and anything other than complying with the thugs makes you in the wrong.
Skellig Gra
Member
Thats a very good point. Typically when they overbook flights in my experience they don't assign you a seat until check in. That means they assigned 2 people the same seat on their boarding passes (most likely). That should be a red flag to any competent system.
In theory that works, but if the employees are needed to operate another flight then you are making the choice to prioritize 4 customers over hundreds. The solution obviously is don't overbook flights but you can see the prioritization.
Is this what 4D sarcasm looks like?
B
bomb
Unconfirmed Member
What you are describing here is called employee benefits. You and your family can fly for a discount or free if seats are available. Has nothing to do with this.
No one ever chooses the easier logical choice
"As a doctor"... lol... sometimes I love GAF.
Anyway, airline screwed up. I honestly can't believe they pulled him physically out of the plane like this over a simple overbook. It's one thing to remove someone for an actual reason, but removed just so another airline employee can fly? Ridiculous.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I hope he sues and wins. That's egregious.
Hydranockz
Member
This is inaccurate. For it to be relevant, the people forced off would have actually been allowed to use the lift. The use of force would need to have been redundant.
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