cj_iwakura
Member
I take some solace in knowing we'll get Winds in some form or another.
A Dream of Spring/Time for Wolves, that's the wild card.
A Dream of Spring/Time for Wolves, that's the wild card.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Dude it's never happening
Let it go
Ok!! Always wanted to try this
IggyChooChoo
Member
Yes! And Winds is pretty much guaranteed to have a bunch of sweet battles: The Battle of Ice, the Battle of Meereen, maybe a Battle of the Bastards, and maybe the sack of Oldtown. Maybe we'll see an actually interesting capture of Casterly Rock as well.
cj_iwakura
Member
Winds will definitely happen, even if it's a (god forbid) a Robert Jordan nightmare scenario where someone else has to piece it together.
The Artisan
Member
those guys get a lot of stuff right, but they get a lot of stuff wrong too.
Some told me it's coming out this year but this person has been known to bullshit a lot.
that is a near complete departure of the character from the books, apart from meeting Jorah & slavery. He meets another Targaryen, that Targaryen is dead on the show now? If he's alive in the books then there's 3 candidates for the throne yeah?
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm a total pessimist when it comes to this book
elrechazado
Banned
It's purported to be rhaegar's son aegon. Danys nephew. If he is who they say he is, he's certainly a contender for the throne. In the show he is dead. In the books he was dead, until he popped up. Ymmv on whether you believe he's really aegon, a total fake, or perhaps a blackfyre.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Show tyrion after book 3 is a vast improvement over book 5 tyrion
They trimmed the fat in the best way possible by having him reach Dany in one season
They trimmed the fat in the best way possible by having him reach Dany in one season
The entire Blackfyre thread read to me like it was self indulgent - like GRRM really enjoyed that portion of the fictional history he wrote, and wanted to see it come to a conclusion, but it was never going anywhere. I mean he really went deep into all of that with AWoIaF.
I expect them to finally be squished with finality early into Winds, and in the aftermath Tyrion spirals into service for Dany for good - at least until his story is done.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I'm currently re-reading them only from Dany's perspective. I might do something similar with the others.
There are some helpful guides that can help make the transition from chapter to chapter easier.
You should read the books, Books 4/5 are 50% on the show and 50% off or changed in various ways. The new Targaryen is Rhegar and Ellia's long lost son "Aegon" or so he and his advisor is told. He is raised to be the perfect King. There is a theory that he is not a true Targaryen, but from the bastard line known as the Blackfyres. Illyrio and Varys supposedly also have connections to the Blackfyres, which is to say that Varys wanted Aegon all along for the Iron Throne. This clears up some of the problems Varys story has in the show.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I liked that he reached Dany in one season and actually got to meet her, however I feel as he as a character has suffered ever since.
I'm expecting Aegon to stick around for a while and possibly sit the Iron Throne for a short period of time. The faith will love him, and I think Littlefinger will try to plan for Sansa to marry him...however that involves a lot of complicated plot issues (like what happens to Cersei and the foreshadowing of her blowing up King's Landing).
There's actually an online PDF titled "A Ball of Beasts" which is basically PDF of both books with the chapters interwoven chronologically from both ADWD and AFFC.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I disagree. His character got better because he was finally acknowledged for his tactical skill and was given a position of power not because of his name, but because of his merits.
No because it had no momentum. I don't even think it fully fired. He shot it and it basically stabbed through the wagon wall or whatever before it even left the scorpion.
cj_iwakura
Member
There's no reason to be. Lots and lots of it exists, it might even be done. He's probably just constantly adding and editing stuff.
I'm guessing either
A. It was poison (low hanging fruit)
B. They'll have MORE, LOTS MORE (most likely)
C. It was a herring, and actually useless (I'd be impressed.)
It wouldn't be a bad narrative decision to have Dany annihilate the Golden Company. A true Targ (unless you believe the far out theories) finally ending the Blackfyres as she lands in Westeros.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Um it shot him out of the sky how exactly is it useless?
cj_iwakura
Member
It didn't kill. She knows they have it. Their only hope was element of surprise and killing one. Though Bronn even hitting it was a miracle, Dany was an idiot to stay up there after one missed.
Sounds like what GRRM tells himself each morning.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Aegon will also raise the uncomfortable question of why we are rooting for Dany, if he is a better ruler than she is. I bet Aegon will take over from Cersei after Jaime kills her, and will be perceived as wise and beloved by the common man. Contrast that with Dany, who will probably leave Meereen in utter chaos, and arrive in Westeros and scare the shit out of everyone. No faction will want anything to do with her, unlike the show. Plus Aegon will have a better claim than her. But Dany'll have the dragons, the dothraki, and the unsullied, and she'll have the advantage of invading right at the moment when Euron brings down the Wall, sacks Oldtown, and summons some kind of supernatural horrors. So it'll be total chaos, and we'll feel kind of bad when she roasts him and takes back Blackfyre.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Bet you anything it's gonna kill a dragon
There's no way they'd make a big deal about it if it didn't do anything important.....
...wait that's like the MO for this show nevermind
cj_iwakura
Member
It's called the Scorpion and the biggest poison geek in Westeros made it.
Safe bet.
I still think that big crossbow is a red herring and won't amount to jack shit. Hell, we may never even see one again.
A dragon will probably die this season - hell maybe all of them. But what kills it or them won't be some dumb Bond Villain type weapon. Even if glorious, shining Bronn is the one wielding it.
A dragon will probably die this season - hell maybe all of them. But what kills it or them won't be some dumb Bond Villain type weapon. Even if glorious, shining Bronn is the one wielding it.
Qyburn is indeed a poison-happy character and I could completely see him trying to poison a dragon.
But he knows nothing about dragon physiology, really. The chances of making a poison that could fatally affect a species that you have literally zero chance to study as living creatures is almost zero. They have no existing analogue. That's why I think dragon poison would be dumb at this point.
Now, if he somehow got to study the greatspear that hit Drogon, I could see him cooking something up.
And yeah, yeah, it's fantasy. But there is a difference between realism and verisimilitude. I am fine with the former being mangled, but not so much the latter.
But he knows nothing about dragon physiology, really. The chances of making a poison that could fatally affect a species that you have literally zero chance to study as living creatures is almost zero. They have no existing analogue. That's why I think dragon poison would be dumb at this point.
Now, if he somehow got to study the greatspear that hit Drogon, I could see him cooking something up.
And yeah, yeah, it's fantasy. But there is a difference between realism and verisimilitude. I am fine with the former being mangled, but not so much the latter.
cj_iwakura
Member
I watched the documentary on episode 4, and it looks like some of the shots are from episode 5, since it shows
Don't recall any of that during episode 4's chaos.
characters sitting around the ash in mourning.
Don't recall any of that during episode 4's chaos.
The Artisan
Member
word yeah I heard about this. is Blackfyre a bastard surname?
I started reading the books but I'm very early on A game of thrones. Damn, this Aegon thing must be really important then making another departure from the show. GRRM said though that he revealed 3 big shocks to the books, and one of them is the ending, so..
Blackfyre was the name that a Targaryan Bastard took on after he was given the sword of the same name by his father. (Blackfyre is House Targaryan's VS ancestral blade)
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Blackfyre is the bastard name for Targaryens. (Like Snow, Sand, etc.)
The books starts very similar to the show, but as they go on it differs more and more.
Not exactly. Snow, Sand, Rivers, Stone, etc refer to location that the bastard was born. Blackfyre is an actual house that simply started with a Targ bastard.
The Artisan
Member
so there was a Targaryen who had an ancestral blade, and calls himself Blackfyre and also happens to be a bastard
word, as much as it diverges though I wonder if the ending will still be kinda the same. also I thought bastard surnames only depended upon which province you were from. North, the Reach, Dorne, etc.
Ocarina_117
Banned
The first blackfyre rebellion and the preceding events would make a fantastic show.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Just for some additional background: that bastard was not a normal bastard like Robert's. He was the child of a Targaryen king and one of the king's Targaryen princess cousins, one that he wasn't married to. So he was a full Targaryen in terms of blood, *and* he was legitimized on his father's deathbed, *and* he was given the ancestral sword, *and* he was an incredible warrior who looked like a king; whereas the legitimate heir was a bookish nerd who *might* have been his brother's son, not his. The whole Blackfyre story is pretty awesome, actually.
The targs had 2 VS blades, and like said above, House Blackfyre was started by a Targ bastard, but became a legitimate house with legitimate lands. After Daemon Waters was legitimized and given Blackfyre he took on the family name Blackfyre.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Damn Blackfyres messing everything up
Yeah if you want to read both A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons together at the same time, use the Boiled Leather Reading Order.
Yeah I also have to agree on having the spinoff be the blackfyre rebellion would be cool to see, but I in general despise prequels because you already know how they end.
Would much rather have a sequel, but it looks like that isn't the way it is going to happen, so of the ideas I have seen on the internet, the Blackfyre rebellion is the best.
Pretty sure that the Golden Company and/or Aegon has it.
Would much rather have a sequel, but it looks like that isn't the way it is going to happen, so of the ideas I have seen on the internet, the Blackfyre rebellion is the best.
Pretty sure that the Golden Company and/or Aegon has it.
The Artisan
Member
I see...you know I feel like the books are so much richer with lore than the adaptation, despite the fact that the adaptation is a show instead of a movie
This isn't really described in ASOIAF series proper, but in various companion books.
To be fair, I think a lot of this lore isn't really laid out in the books in as interesting a way as they are here. Some of it is bits and pieces of casual dialogue across all the books pieced together by fans, and the bulk is from the linear history of Westeros as written in The World of Ice and Fire. If you're mainly interested in the backstory and lore stuff, you might want to grab that book instead. It's really nice.
IggyChooChoo
Member
In earlier drafts of the chapter when Tyrion hooks up with the group escorting Aegon around, they speak some Volantene to each other, and he can pick out the words "queen," "dragon," and "sword." In the published version, GRRM took that out. So a lot of people are confident that in WOW Aegon will reveal he has Blackfyre.
The Artisan
Member
word, instead of saying the "books" then i guess I should refer to it as the ASOIAF franchise/universe, even though technically game of thrones is a part of that
The Artisan
Member
i'm a pretty hardcore fan of the show, so i'll probably read the World too. when you say "here" do you mean here on GAF or here in the World book?
edit: sorry for double post
IggyChooChoo
Member
The Dunk and Egg stories all touch on Blackfyre stuff -- they're collected in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, and I think they're great.