Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Meh, not entirely true. 102.1 The Edge plays everything these days that's not Super-Pop. I don't even consider it Rock radio anymore, haven't considered it since 2010. And I bet they've played 99 Problems.
Uproxx: Vince Staples Eminem And Redman Comparison Spark Debate On Race And Aging
- Thread starter Mr. X
- Start date
Meh, not entirely true. 102.1 The Edge plays everything these days that's not Super-Pop. I don't even consider it Rock radio anymore, haven't considered it since 2010. And I bet they've played 99 Problems.
Dreams-Visions
Member
excellent post.
Re: the bolded - I too find it strange that I know so many people that only seem to like rap when it comes to Eminem and largely refuse to listen otherwise. You wonder how they got to that point.
Fried Food
Banned
A couple things, apparently I've been sleeping on Redman, and I need to get around to watching 8 mile some day
Bounceounce
Member
Would totally get trashed, but Eminem's career is based on him getting praised for underwhelming content or at least getting praised too highly compared to his black counterparts.
Case in point, the comments to the No Love video trashing Wayne and saying only Eminem murdered it while Em raps about sticking his dick in shit and other lazy puns with a forceful flow.
Picking the singularly wrong target to try and make your point on a white performer overrated on skin color when there's plenty of other right ones?
You'd think people are smart enough to not pull a Dennis Rodman in 2017, but he's only 24, so I guess youthfulness can excuse the stupidity on display.
Wat
Shake Appeal
Member
I didn't know about Vince's Twitter until this week. It's so good.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Eminem's presence has made it tough for other white rappers to stay relevant in the industry. Most are almost always one hit wonders. I remember when people thought Mac Miller was the future of hip hop.
Use your words. What's so confusing to you.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Remember Bubba Sparxx?
The topic is visibility. His skin color has made him more visible. So his talent was easier to see and gain a broader appeal.
Not talking about you here but I'm always uncomfortable when Black people are lambasted for giving an opinion on an ally and framed like we're setting back civil rights.
We can have two conversations. One about a message and another about visibility.
Just_myles
Member
2. Redman should be in higher regard. Muddy waters was amazing and an anthem back in the day.
3. Yup. Sorry state we're in now.
4. ... Yeah. You need a better argument if it just that he is white, imo.
5. Agreed. He's dope but, not my top 5 right now. It always changes.
I'm in agreement. Life is good (and hip hop is dead.. better than illmatic if you ask me)was amazing and does illustrate your point in regards to artist growth.
Em will always have a special place in my heart. 7.) I was there in the way beginning and saw his style evolve (Yes, his style is not the same as it was back in 99, sorry guys). Although there were guys doing that eccentric style before him (Kool Keith I have said this many times before)I will give him credit for actually making it work.
Hope I did not veer off topic with that view.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
There are so many good white rappers out there that get zero mention on GAF. It's always jokes about Eminem and Macklemore and shit.
R.A. The Rugged Man
Apathy
Slaine
and a million others in the "underground" or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. But GAF only likes mumble rap and trap because everything else is corny or outdated unless it can be played in a club or your car.
RA especially has had some great interviews and opinions on subjects like this very thread, especially when it comes to white guys in black music, visibility, success, and cultural appropriation.
R.A. The Rugged Man
Apathy
Slaine
and a million others in the "underground" or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. But GAF only likes mumble rap and trap because everything else is corny or outdated unless it can be played in a club or your car.
RA especially has had some great interviews and opinions on subjects like this very thread, especially when it comes to white guys in black music, visibility, success, and cultural appropriation.
Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself
If they were brown, Shady'd lose, Shady sits on the shelf
But Shady's cute, Shady knew Shady's dimples would help
Make ladies swoon, baby (ooh, baby!) — look at my sales!
Let's do the math: if I was black, I woulda sold half
I ain't have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that
But I could rap, so fuck school, I'm too cool to go back
Give me the mic, show me where the fuckin' studio's at
Bounceounce
Member
Mac Miller is still out here.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
It's typical of many white people when it comes to any "black stuff." Black talent is usually viewed as inherent/born with, whereas a white person excelling in a black art (or sports) is viewed as a genius fighter who willed him or herself to the top with sheer hard work and acquired talent. A black girl singing amazing at church is expected. A black guy who can rap is expected. A talented white girl who can sing her ass off (Adele) is suddenly a global treasure though, white rappers are the best, white wide receivers in football are "intelligent and sneaky athletic," etc.
Eminem literally entered hip hop rapping like Nas and AZ, completely mimicking their rhyme patterns. That's not a criticism of him - a lot of people have used that rap scheme, and obviously Nas and AZ built on it from being inspired by Kool G Rap and Rakim. But in Eminem's case, he is hailed as a technical master who is better than anyone ever...as if he didn't get his style from black rappers and never surpassed them.
I also want to note that all white fans aren't like this. This is moreso about white Eminem fans, because there isn't much correlation between "white rap fans" and "white Eminem fans." Most Eminem fans are low rap IQ, corny white people who still think Adam Sandler is funny. And I say this as a white rap fan who has Kanye West in his top 10.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
Staples is going to turn into Lupe one day.
Yep.
Em's using what was given to him to his advantage as all artists should. I'm not mad at him for it, he's doing what he's supposed to do.
Had a decent solo album recently, all over the new Wu.
If I was Redman I'd be a bit offended. Dude still got bars.
perfectchaos007
Member
Eminem got his start in freestyling, and thats still what he excels at most imo. I haven't seen a better freestyle than this to this day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-U7g64p4io
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-U7g64p4io
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Remember Asher Roth?
But is he still relevant? Do people care about his new stuff?
Bounceounce
Member
Not to the same extent, but he has a steady fanbase and decent-quality output.
The fact that dude above said Lupe is an all time great is probably funnier to me than someone thinking that Eminem is an all time great.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
This is the type of bullshit we're talking about.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Em would tell anyone in here that Vince was right. He didn't say anything groundbreaking here. We all know Em is 1) a dope rapper and 2) a beneficiary of being a white man.
I don't begrudge Em for taking advantage of that when he frequently uses his platform to put others on and to speak out against the kind of privilege that's allowed him to become such a huge star while others that are just as talented as him had to settle for less.
I don't begrudge Em for taking advantage of that when he frequently uses his platform to put others on and to speak out against the kind of privilege that's allowed him to become such a huge star while others that are just as talented as him had to settle for less.
Mac Miller is more relevant today than he's ever been. He was at the Sahara tent at Coachella with a full house in the middle of the day. He had Fly Lo beats on his albums and earl sweatshirt features years after he broke as a "one hit wonder."
Bounceounce
Member
Grammy Family Freestyle:
https://youtu.be/mE7HuHB5V0M
Imagine believing that Eminem is Lupe level, as a lyricist.
Kick Push, He Say She Say, Pressure, Daydreamin' American Terrorist>Eminem
I mean the little girl who insulted her mom on Dr. Phil and is so mediocre and talentless got a bigger push from mainstream media than even someone like Nas ever got. I think Eminem is a decent lyricist especially in the past, but his rise to stardom had a lot to do with his race. White mediocrity is often lauded more than black excellence or people of colour excellence in the country.
I dont see how anyone can say Eminems stylistically has stayed the same.
His new stuff is almost nothing like his old stuff. Like his flow has changed a lot, its much less flippant, and even his voice is a good bit different.
Hes often regarded as one of the best of all times because of a mix of album sales, skill/talent, marketing, credibility because of his background as a freestyle rap battle champ, and having the luck/business acumen to be in the right place at the right time with Dre, 50, etc.
Certainly being white played a part in that, I would even say it played a big part. But many of the dudes who got on with Dre in the 90s were and remained huge for years. He was a pretty dominant producer and certified hit maker. People still know Snoop and 50 as big names too. 50 without Dre and Em is that guy that wrote the how to rob song. If Snoop has debuted with No Limit instead of on the chronic he would be sitting next to Soulja Slim in the Pantheon of rap gods. If Em didnt get on with Dre hed be something of an oddity like Remedy.
Now I would say that I probably like Muddy Waters better than any Snoop, 50, OR Eminem album. Arguably he is more talented than 50, Snoop, and Eminem. I also like Muddy waters better than any Jay-Z album if you really want to get down to it.
That said, theres a lot more to being top 10 of all time than just being a good or even great Emcee.
His new stuff is almost nothing like his old stuff. Like his flow has changed a lot, its much less flippant, and even his voice is a good bit different.
Hes often regarded as one of the best of all times because of a mix of album sales, skill/talent, marketing, credibility because of his background as a freestyle rap battle champ, and having the luck/business acumen to be in the right place at the right time with Dre, 50, etc.
Certainly being white played a part in that, I would even say it played a big part. But many of the dudes who got on with Dre in the 90s were and remained huge for years. He was a pretty dominant producer and certified hit maker. People still know Snoop and 50 as big names too. 50 without Dre and Em is that guy that wrote the how to rob song. If Snoop has debuted with No Limit instead of on the chronic he would be sitting next to Soulja Slim in the Pantheon of rap gods. If Em didnt get on with Dre hed be something of an oddity like Remedy.
Now I would say that I probably like Muddy Waters better than any Snoop, 50, OR Eminem album. Arguably he is more talented than 50, Snoop, and Eminem. I also like Muddy waters better than any Jay-Z album if you really want to get down to it.
That said, theres a lot more to being top 10 of all time than just being a good or even great Emcee.
LQX
Member
As brash as Eminem can be, maybe those that follow Eminem are more tolerant and don't correlate him aging to being washed-up, old school, or corny? Isn't it sort of the same with Jay-Z? Meanwhile some are calling him old, washed up and corny; he has a big following that thinks the opposite.
He had 4 number one albums. And After Illmatic everyone had a baby album cover for like 5 years.
(4 is counting the Firm).
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I find that hard to believe.
I have no problem with people stating the obvious. That a big part of Eminem's appeal to a wider audience was the fact that he is white. I got issues with people who weren't even old enough to remember shit like the Lyricist Lounge releases or even old enough to have bought Nas' albums talking like he or Redman had no push.
billy beane
Banned
Not ignored, just not promoted and praised on platforms Em has access to. Countless black artists have written and performed music that vocalize racial issues in America. Vince himself has a track (and it bangs).
Again, not a bad thing. Just an example of the power of whiteness.
I don't really know why he fell off. Seemed he was a darling at first, then became the enemy.
Either way, I wish Staples continued success. Love his style.
Elegant Weapon
Member
excellent post all around
Cesare Borgia
Banned
I Am was huge and sold what, 3 million records? Nas had the machine behind him, no doubt. And of course before that, It Was Written was huge.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
"Only white rappers get to rap and be old"
-What about Jay Z? Nas? Chuck D? Kanye? Killer Mike? RZA? Raekwon? Q-Tip? Killer Mike at the height of his fame.-
"Oh, they don't count for reasons."
Get the fuck out of here with that clickbait shit.
-What about Jay Z? Nas? Chuck D? Kanye? Killer Mike? RZA? Raekwon? Q-Tip? Killer Mike at the height of his fame.-
"Oh, they don't count for reasons."
Get the fuck out of here with that clickbait shit.
I mean. Dude even produced a Vince Staples mixtape. A lot of so cal rappers were hanging out at his house in the hills around that time 2012 or (thereabouts).
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
LMFAO
Rather listen to Cam just foolin around - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugkjSxnzPDM
https://youtu.be/ugkjSxnzPDM?t=2m17s
To be fair, this was before 2010 I think. I'm not sure what they're like now. Don't listen to the radio and if I did I'd probably invest in Sirius.
The article is full of shit on that quote. I haven't heard anyone referring to anything recent from eminem as reason to hold him as the greatest of all time. Hyperbole to the fucking extreme. Just about everyone everywhere considers his earlier work his best. The GOAT talk around him isn't nearly as strong today, or when he was dissing Mariah Carey for example as it was early on.
This.
Look I get it, plenty of white people love eminem and shit on the genre outside of him. That shit grates, but this has turned Eminem himself into one of those "Bitches eating crackers" where people are so upset about the fact that many of his fans are assholes, that they can't even stand him shitting on a large percentage of his fans in this Trump cypher without finding some way to hate him for it regardless.
He defintiely has changed, and the people claiming he hasnt know it. Because in other discussions about his more recent albums you can find the same people going:
"Why is he screaming every bar"
"Why is he rapping an entire album with weird nasally voices"
"He's trying to fit WAY to many words into each bar and it sounds fucked up"
etc etc etc. And all of those criticisms have been valid, he started that shit later in his career and his flow and style isn't nearly as good as it was at the start.
Yeah that's absolutely a reach, although most of those names aren't as big as Em. Respected, for sure, but not as known to the wide audiences.