Yeah, they really can. The issue I always run into with crappy cables is poor shielding and wiring. This typically translates to noise and minor artifacts in the image but can also result in a low hum in the audio lines. Its worth it just to pick up good cables from the start.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Yeah, they really can. The issue I always run into with crappy cables is poor shielding and wiring. This typically translates to noise and minor artifacts in the image but can also result in a low hum in the audio lines. Its worth it just to pick up good cables from the start.
There are many different analog signals going through a SCART cable (at least 6 for RGB, sync and stereo audio). Improper shielding and wiring can and will create crosstalk.
That's the big drawback of SCART imo. A single cable for everything sounds great on paper, but packing so many analog signals together is a recipe for trouble. It's probably the main reason why component video went for separate RCA cables, it avoids that issue.
NormalFish
Banned
Thanks for the replies! The picture quality on your fist image is terrible, isn't the cable defective? There's barely any white.
Also:
edit: Actually the description says: SNES SCART Do not use on XRGB scalers without converter. Is the converter she's talking about the Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8pin adapter? For a US cable?
edit2:
Also, which would is better?
"Super Nintendo stereo RGB SCART lead FULLY SHIELDED+GROUNDED cable cord US SNES"
or
"Super Nintendo SNES/RGB N64 sync-on-luma RGB SCART lead SHIELDED+GROUNDED cable"?
What's the real difference with the sync-on-luma? They are exactly the same price, wouldn't the second cable always be the best alternative?
Also:
There's still one thing I don't understand. The cable you advise me to buy is obviously for a NTSC console (I don't know if it matters), but then why wouldn't I use the Framemeister adapter with it? Why buying a Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8pin adapter? It's not a euro cable :S
edit: Actually the description says: SNES SCART Do not use on XRGB scalers without converter. Is the converter she's talking about the Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8pin adapter? For a US cable?
edit2:
Also, which would is better?
"Super Nintendo stereo RGB SCART lead FULLY SHIELDED+GROUNDED cable cord US SNES"
or
"Super Nintendo SNES/RGB N64 sync-on-luma RGB SCART lead SHIELDED+GROUNDED cable"?
What's the real difference with the sync-on-luma? They are exactly the same price, wouldn't the second cable always be the best alternative?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I think you're confused because this warning is primarily for older XRGB units. Old XRGBs have a 21-pin connector on the unit itself. The XRGB-mini has an 8-pin RGB port and comes with a JP21-to-XRGB-mini adapter.
On old XRGBs, you either use JP21 cables directly or you use a SCART-to-JP21 converter.
On the XRGB-mini, you either use the included adapter for JP21 cables or buy an alternative adapter for SCART cables.
The only difference between JP21 and SCART is the order of the pins on the connector. They carry the exact same information. Either of them can be used for 60hz or 50hz sources; NTSC/PAL differences don't matter here.
The SNES-specific concerns are due to regional differences inside the console itself. I believe that PAL SNESes have either extra capacitors or resistors (I forget which) on the RGB lines inside the console, so official SCART cables for PAL SNESes don't have these components inside of the cables. For NTSC SNESes, these components must be added into the SCART/JP21 cables in order for them to work with NTSC systems. That's why there are warnings on the eBay pages to make sure that you buy the correct cables for the correct region console; NTSC SNES cables have more stuff inside of them, no matter whether they're SCART or JP21 cables.
Ok, so if I understand correctly, I'm never gonna use this with a scart rbg cable?
Instead I should buy a Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8pin adapter?
Also, it would be for my super famicom. I read the difference with the pal version is that the signal is synced in some way. But what if I also want to use a RGB modded PAL N64 and/or my PAL SNES?
Should I go with a luma cable? Or is it not necessary?
edit: Or maybe I can just buy a normal cable and use instead a "European SCART to Framemeister XRGB Mini Converter adapter with built in LM1881N sync stripper"?
edit2: Thanks Sixfortyfive for the reply. So I can use cable for NTSC systems on PAL consoles as well even if it's redundant? It won't cause any issues?
Instead I should buy a Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8pin adapter?
Also, it would be for my super famicom. I read the difference with the pal version is that the signal is synced in some way. But what if I also want to use a RGB modded PAL N64 and/or my PAL SNES?
Should I go with a luma cable? Or is it not necessary?
edit: Or maybe I can just buy a normal cable and use instead a "European SCART to Framemeister XRGB Mini Converter adapter with built in LM1881N sync stripper"?
edit2: Thanks Sixfortyfive for the reply. So I can use cable for NTSC systems on PAL consoles as well even if it's redundant? It won't cause any issues?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
If you already have SCART cables, then yes, you want to replace that adapter with one that is configured for SCART cables.
If you haven't gotten any RGB cables yet, then it's up to you whether you want to start buying SCART or JP21.
Depending on what console you have, you have up to 3 choices of sync. Generally, the best to worst options are:
1) composite sync (aka "clean sync" or "CSYNC")
2) sync-on-luma (only available on consoles with S-Video or component video support)
3) sync-on-composite-video (almost always available; I think the Dreamcast is the only console where it isn't)
Most, but not all, RGB-capable NTSC SNESes have CSYNC on their AV ports. Original style SNESes removed CSYNC late in its production run, and the redesigned SNES mini doesn't have RGB or S-video output at all. I don't think CSYNC is available on any PAL SNES, but I'm not 100% certain.
I would not use a built-in sync stripper unless you know that you need one. They can complicate your setup and cause more problems than they solve if the cables aren't wired up correctly.
I can't say for sure what will or will not work on PAL equipment. Best to ask someone who uses PAL.
The PAL SNES is the odd one out cable-wise. The NTSC RGB cable for SNES/SFC will work on PAL Gamecubes and I believe PAL RGB-modded N64s. If you use it on a PAL SNES the picture just fades to black and never returns. I have one separate cable which I keep just for my PAL SNES.
Thanks for your reply guys. Ok so I'll keep my old RGB cable for my PAL SNES.
But what happens if I use a sync-on-luma cable with a SNES? Will it cause conflicts of some kind? Or should I go with a standard cable and it wouldn't make any difference in picture quality? Do the NTSC gamecube and PAL N64 also have CSYNC on their AV ports?
But what happens if I use a sync-on-luma cable with a SNES? Will it cause conflicts of some kind? Or should I go with a standard cable and it wouldn't make any difference in picture quality? Do the NTSC gamecube and PAL N64 also have CSYNC on their AV ports?
digita1alchemy
Member
So, this seemed like the best thread to post this in. After getting tired of searching for one, I am thinking of making my own SCART switch. Just something functional, not too fancy like the gscartsw. As far as basic features go:
-8 SCART inputs, 1 SCART out
-Auto-switching with manual override
-L/R audio out.
-Daisy-chainable
Assuming there is no discernable signal degradation, which is the goal, would anyone here be interested in buying such a switch? Are there other potentially important features I should include? I think I could offer something like this at a really good price, but I need to gauge interest first and finalize a feature list before I am able to nail down a price point.
I don't want to derail the thread, so just shoot me a PM if you're interested or have any input.
-8 SCART inputs, 1 SCART out
-Auto-switching with manual override
-L/R audio out.
-Daisy-chainable
Assuming there is no discernable signal degradation, which is the goal, would anyone here be interested in buying such a switch? Are there other potentially important features I should include? I think I could offer something like this at a really good price, but I need to gauge interest first and finalize a feature list before I am able to nail down a price point.
I don't want to derail the thread, so just shoot me a PM if you're interested or have any input.
Kawika
Member
I found a guy who is selling a PVM 14L5 (he also has a 20L5 too). I primarily want to use it for wii (gamecube too) and PS2 ( PS1 too). The guy has a HD-SDI card for it. I thought it might be okay to hook up my Wii U when I want to play Virtual Console with scan lines. Is this beyond the capabilities of either the Wii U or the PVM_14L5?
I just don't see myself buying scart adapters and all that mess and rebuying a lot of my old consoles or modding the ones I have left to use it.
I really would appreciate any expertise you guys can offer before I pull the trigger on this.
Thanks
I just don't see myself buying scart adapters and all that mess and rebuying a lot of my old consoles or modding the ones I have left to use it.
I really would appreciate any expertise you guys can offer before I pull the trigger on this.
Thanks
I don't think the Wii U can do 240p, you'd be better off using a Wii for that if you have one.
It may be able to do it in Wii mode. I wouldn't bank on it though.
Kawika
Member
Would you settle for that one or hold off for the M4U?
Pancakes R Us
Member
Hi all,
I'm currently looking at a 20" SONY PVM TRINITRON MONITOR L2. Anyone have any experience of / opinions on this? The specs are as follows:
Thanks.
I'm currently looking at a 20" SONY PVM TRINITRON MONITOR L2. Anyone have any experience of / opinions on this? The specs are as follows:
I plan to mainly use it with my Wii / GC+ GB Player. Perhaps also to get a SNES someday. I don't seem to see any scart sockets in the back of the picture. Do scart cables not connect to these machines?
Thanks.
You'll have to convert SCART to BNC which is the case for most of the PVMs people are using.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Thanks. Is it just an adaptor or you have to mess with the scary cable itself? I bought the RGB (I think) scary cable off a seller on eBay via a recommendation from Peagles, for my GameCube.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The Wii U can't run in 240p.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
I'm planning to pick up an m4u tomorrow. What do I need to hook up my consoles besides their respective RGB scart cables?
So I got tired of waiting for the eBay source again and just bought this Scart to JP21 cable from retro gaming cables last week: http://www.retrogamingcables.com/european-scart-to-japanese-scart-converter.html
What's the consensus on these?
What's the consensus on these?
theSlacker
Member
A scart to bnc adapter. Also a scart switch is nice if you don't want to have to unplug and plug in a different cable every time you switch systems.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
Is there one that is better than others or will any do fine? And I'll definitely get a scart switch, thanks.
theSlacker
Member
I have a couple of them. There are reports that this one sold by retro gaming cables isn't of the best quality, but back when I was buying cables it was the only place that wasn't some guy on a forum that I wasn't a member of that sold them so I have one of them. I wouldn't recommend their console cables though way since retro_console_accessories on ebay makes much better ones. Her stock comes and goes so it can be hard to get all the cables you want in one shipment/know if there is a better cable that she makes that she just is out of stock of. Another scart to bnc option is from this seller. I have one of his as well and do like the build quality more then the regrogamingcables.com one so that may be the better bet for you.
Avoid cables that are marked as jp21/rgb21 as they aren't scart even though they look the same. Some consoles are wired different depending on the region so make sure to get cables that are meant for whatever region your console is from if there are multiple options. Think that's about it. The most recommended scart selector was a non powered Bandridge unit, but I cannot find the listing for it right now, someone else may be able to help you on that. You have to cut a lead on it to make it work properly with its 5th connection I hear though. Anyway, enjoy.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
Hey guys there's another m4u in my area that says for parts, but it just has 3 rgb lines near the top which is the only issues listed. I should be able to fix this in service mode, right? Should I pick it up for $25?
Thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Eww, I just checked my $1 PVM and it has the lines too.
Speedwagon
Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel. Yabuki turned off voice chat in Mario Kart races. True artists of their time.
Bog
Junior Ace
My Framemeister still likes to give me intermittent, horizontal "static" lines, as well as simply dropping the picture occasionally when the scene changes. Sometimes the picture drops right in the middle of playing causing me to rush to hit pause. Is this some setting I can fix or is it an issue with the Framemeister itself? It happens regardless of console or input type.
Friend of Sonic
Member
It worked! Splendid! Thank you!
Hey guys there's another m4u in my area that says for parts, but it just has 3 rgb lines near the top which is the only issues listed. I should be able to fix this in service mode, right? Should I pick it up for $25?
Try the tweak before buying it, just to be sure. Mine was not as bad, but it's probably still salvageable. For $25 this is definitely worth it.
Ban Puncher
Member
Friend of Sonic
Member
I'm not the person you quoted, but the tweak worked for me. Is the lines issue a sign of age or trouble with the set, and this is just a workaround? Or this doesn't mean there's a problem?
Friend of Sonic
Member
Ahhh, I see, I see. Hopefully the problem doesn't get worse? That's a shame to hear it's a capacitor that went out.
It will probably get worse over time, yes. I can start to see the red line at the top left of mine. Probably will have to tweak the variable every once in a while as time goes on.
But all CRTs will die eventually...
Friend of Sonic
Member
:'(
sixteen-bit
Member
sad thought of the day
baphomet
Member
This is why you stock pile them.
Friend of Sonic
Member
One day I'm going to be trying to outlast the zombie apocalypse, with my PVMs stacked against the doors to get the zombies out, eating tuna packets and playing Turrican.
I think I just missed a pretty good deal. Sony PVM142MDE for roughly 30 bucks including shipping... please say that this modell wasn't a good deal...
I have also one question: Is there a way to connect a s-video cable to SCART without loosing image quality on my TV? Background: my N64 doesn't support RGB output. S-Video should be better than composite but my TV lacks a s-video input port. So my thoughts were to connect a s-video cable from my N64 to the scart adapter and to the TV to get the better IQ than with composite. Would it work?
I have also one question: Is there a way to connect a s-video cable to SCART without loosing image quality on my TV? Background: my N64 doesn't support RGB output. S-Video should be better than composite but my TV lacks a s-video input port. So my thoughts were to connect a s-video cable from my N64 to the scart adapter and to the TV to get the better IQ than with composite. Would it work?
RobFox64tm
Member
I thought about doing that, but I just don't have the space or the money to do so. The one I have is new old stock though, so it should last me a while. All I can really do is love it and treat it as best as I can until that inevitable day comes. It's sad to think about, but at the same time, I'll be happy that this monitor got to spend it's entire life playing classic games. What a way to live!
But the zombies might damage your PVMs if you use them as barricade. You should just let them take you instead, and avoid that risk.
Been doing the Xrgb Mini + DVDO Edge combo for the last month, all I can say is that the results are amazing, the Mini handles most of the processing, all the Edge handles is the upscaling from 720P to 1080P when using scanlines and sometimes some Zoom settings to fill out the screen along with splitting the audio using the HDMI Audio output to the AVR.
So far the recommended settings from the Xrgb Wiki have worked nicely.
Here's some shots.
NESRGB - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 240P sources.
Wii (Via Component at 480i) - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 480i and Component sources.
I found that the Wii 480P output is really poor and the 480i output delivers better results, the Mini in Video mode does an amazing De- Interlacing and upscaling to 1080P
Cables Used:
SNES JP-21 Cable from Retro_Console_Accessories
OEM Wii Component Cable
Regular HDMI cables from Amazon.
So far the recommended settings from the Xrgb Wiki have worked nicely.
Here's some shots.
NESRGB - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 240P sources.
Wii (Via Component at 480i) - Mini - Edge (In Game Mode) - Panasonic Plasma TC- P50U50 (In Game Mode)
Using the recommended settings from the WIki for 480i and Component sources.
I found that the Wii 480P output is really poor and the 480i output delivers better results, the Mini in Video mode does an amazing De- Interlacing and upscaling to 1080P
Cables Used:
SNES JP-21 Cable from Retro_Console_Accessories
OEM Wii Component Cable
Regular HDMI cables from Amazon.
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