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Urban America is a network of blue islands in a sea of red

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MogCakes

Member
New York, Chicago, L.A., Seattle, San Francisco, Houston, Miami, Portland, Austin, D.C., Atlanta, Boston, San Antonio, Orlando, New Orleans, Denver, DFW, and the other urban centers of the US. Most of US-GAF probably lives on one of these islands, myself included. They are 'hotbeds of multiculturalism', which I've seen used as a derogatory term but quite like the sound of, myself. Most of the nation's commerce is run through these islands. All the space between them is a rural ocean, and they make up the other half of the country's population.

Before It's News said:
When you look at the new map of the United States by Congressional District, it is clear that an interesting phenomenon, known to many for a long time, has now shown itself in stark contrast.

This sea change has created a map that is vastly red, with small blue islands distributed mostly on the coasts, but a few linger in mid-America as well. It is clear why; these are the most urban areas of the country. Some of the islands are tiny and some are large because they represent gerrymandered areas, but largely, it is because there is a large urban center in those districts.
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2010/11/a-nation-of-blue-islands-in-a-sea-of-red-249335.html

This has been known for years. I've been waiting for a thread like this to pop up or get bumped in the post-election aftermath but have not seen any, so here I am.

Here's an image of the nation's county map for the 2008 election that won Obama the POTUS.

2008_election_map-counties.jpg


Daily KOS said:
See all that red? I see that as a worrisome problem. Yes Obama won, and convincingly, but blue islands in a sea of deeply alienated red is not a recipe for the survival of the United States as a cohesive whole. We need to give the folks in that sea of red reason to vote for the "D" on the ballot, or the US will sooner or later cease to be viable as a unified, cohesive entity. Sherrod Brown was asked once why people in Southeastern Ohio stopped voting for Democrats. His answer: "Because we stopped talking to them."

I think there is great wisdom there, and a Way Forward. What are your thoughts?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/2/25/949798/-

What is the Way Forward? How do we reconcile such stark ideological differences (evidence-based science, secular moral beliefs, social and economic equality vs religious-based creationism, religion-based morality, bootstraps mentality)?

I have trouble thinking of any wholly peaceful way. It is impossible for us to reach peace through politics or social justice movements alone. We can't rely on majority because as the thread title suggests, we are blue islands (albeit heavily populated) within a sea of red. Geographic distance makes even interacting with each other a Herculean task unless one's work or family demands it. Personally, I feel if transportation technology can reduce travel time even further and reduce costs to almost negligent amounts, and give people a reason to go to currently rural zones, we could have more interaction. We also need to be willing to interact with each other - one saying I recall is to hate the idea, not the person. It's incredibly hard to follow from personal experience, but it does highlight a nuance that is lost by simply calling a spade, a spade. Hate their racism, but don't hate the person for existing. I don't think most people would be able to follow that - I probably couldn't do it longterm. The viability, or lack thereof, of manufacturing and other low-education labor jobs has also been on the downtrend and is something that no amount of communication can solve.

Does a way to bridge the urban/rural divide without compromising our ideological beliefs exist? What way, realistically, is there to not leave working-class America behind as automation increases?

Perhaps I'm trying to tackle too many things at once, but they are all inter-related. Strand me on a blue island if old.
 
Does a way to bridge the urban/rural divide without compromising our ideological beliefs exist? What way, realistically, is there to not leave working-class America behind as automation increases?

No.

There is not a way.

The free market fixed rural areas. They will die out, slowly but surely, as cities continue to swallow the void.

The factories didn't move to China or Mexico. NEW ones were built there, OLD ones shuttered, split, abused new capital and cheaper logistics to gather more profit while costing a not-significant share of it to do so.

It's decentralized because it's cheaper that way.

That's why nothing's ever changed for them, except gotten worse. Nobody in their right mind will do it because it's too expensive, even if you used slave labor, compared to doing it closer to major population centers.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
On a spectrum, it's mostly purple


But I do worry about the effects of younger people continuing to move into city centers and liberal states, leaving many red areas predominately red.
 

WedgeX

Banned
Two maps that are quite relevant for the new reality of the Democrats and GOP.

Counties dominated by whites with and without college education, and those dominated by minorities from the NY Times:
5GUPf8b.png


And the electoral map by county as it appears so far:
0LBc6Uh.png
 

Pyrokai

Member
On a spectrum, it's mostly purple



But I do worry about the effects of younger people continuing to move into city centers and liberal states, leaving many red areas predominately red.


Hopefully some of the rust belt will lose electoral votes after the Census.

As a previous staunch supporter, defender, and believer of the rust belt, and someone who has lived here all my life, I just find it hard to care anymore post-election.
 
Educate the young and wait for the old to die out. Not sure if we'd get there before it's too late.

Are you kidding me with this? Kids are chanting "build the wall" in middle school. Teachers are telling kids they're going to get deported.

Nah. Political leadership needs to start solving problems for the people. Cause when people ain't got shit or ain't got enough they turn real nasty real quick.
 

Cocaloch

Member
It's not that big of a problem in itself. The most obvious demographic divide between the first political parties was Urban vs Rural. It isn't new or anything.

The real issue is that one party in the US is hot garbage, and the other one is far far worse.
 

RuGalz

Member
Maybe you should read that thread about the German exchange student. That shit is entrenched in kids too.

Yea I read it. I've lived in Texas for a while. As second Asian kid in the school, it wasn't easy. I think it's going to have to start from college level where kids have the mental maturity to open up to different views and then maybe their kids will grow up with slightly more moderate view. It will be a slow progress.

The other way is if some how the new generation of businesses are able to move into those areas. Like high tech companies moving to various placed in Texas, which I think is the leading cause for more progressive movements in certain cities. It introduces jobs and racial diversity which may ease some anxiety about different racial groups.

Are you kidding me with this? Kids are chanting "build the wall" in middle school. Teachers are telling kids they're going to get deported.

Nah. Political leadership needs to start solving problems for the people. Cause when people ain't got shit or ain't got enough they turn real nasty real quick.

There are always going to be racist people even in racially diverse area. I think it's just a few bad apples making news.
 

shoreu

Member
Not sure that's even possible with automation destroying jobs permanently. Guaranteed income is probably the best solution.

I was just having a discussion about this. I feel like there will be this long campaign of denial about the effects of automation for years and guaranteed income will come far later because of it.
 
Personally, I feel if transportation technology can reduce travel time even further and reduce costs to almost negligent amounts, and give people a reason to go to currently rural zones, we could have more interaction.

I think better transportation could help, but not for that reason. First, it would allow people to live further away from urban areas and still be able to work in them. If living an hour away from a city transportation-wise becomes an 100 mile radius instead of a 50 mile radius, you'll have city-dwellers and other workers move into those more rural areas as property costs will initially be cheaper, and/or you have more rural people able to work city/suburban jobs because the travel time isn't too bad. Second, we improve the ability to transport things within the country cheaper, then what manufacturing we do still do in this country doesn't have to be done in urban/suburban areas, which is partially the case because those areas are the transportation hubs and it's easier to ship out of them than in the more rural areas.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Prohibiting religious indoctrination before 18 as well as creationism in schools would be a start.

Religion is a big part of the Republican platform and a cause of a lot of their awful policies and beliefs, but there's really no way to prohibit "indoctrination," especially in ways that wouldn't violate the first amendment. You can't exactly ban children from churches.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
You aren't entirely wrong OP but you should keep the spectrum in mind. Some of those districts are red but by a very slender margin.

This map shows the margins, the bigger the circle the bigger the margin of red or blue. A lot of those are just tiny, tiny dots...

circles.png


(Thanks Ekai for the map)
 

soco

Member
as others have said, the OPs map is misleading. it doesnt mean much with knowing the population.

also, the daily kos quote is funny in that its been a tried message before by Bill Clinton and others. its the more centrist approach on some issues, or fear mongering on issues like crime, which can lead to devastating effects without reasonable opposition.

the simplest answer is charisma over experience, but with limits. not really a different message, but a different delivery.
 
Yea I read it. I've lived in Texas for a while. As second Asian kid in the school, it wasn't easy. I think it's going to have to start from college level where kids have the mental maturity to open up to different views and then maybe their kids will grow up with slightly more moderate view. It will be a slow progress.

The other way is if some how the new generation of businesses are able to move into those areas. Like high tech companies moving to various placed in Texas, which I think is the leading cause for more progressive movements in certain cities. It introduces jobs and racial diversity which may ease some anxiety about different racial groups.



There are always going to be racist people even in racially diverse area. I think it's just a few bad apples making news.
giphy.gif
 
Let me clarify. The comment was specifically about the couple cases the poster brought up happened in blue states. Don't generalize it.

I'm not making generalizing anything it is the truth. The younger crowd is just as racist as the older crowd. We have students singing racist chants, sending mass emails wanting to lynch other people, telling people that they are going to get deported, etc. So how much more do we need before it is more than just "a few bad apples".
 

Biske

Member
America is effectively two countries, leftland and rightland. Neither are talking to each other much.

I have been thinking that maybe America is just too damn big a country to really function.


So many different areas and different concerns, I dunno if it really even makes sense anymore.
 

ezrarh

Member
I have been thinking that maybe America is just too damn big a country to really function.

So many different areas and different concerns, I dunno if it really even makes sense anymore.

Honestly - even before this election, I'm wondering if the Dems should get on the decentralization platform. States and cities are paving the way for marijuana legalization, increased minimum wage, transportation funding, etc. A major weakening of the federal government may speed up progress in different regions but I wouldn't want that if it comes at the expense of minorities, disadvantaged groups, and also the environment.
 

Cagey

Banned
Are you kidding me with this? Kids are chanting "build the wall" in middle school. Teachers are telling kids they're going to get deported.

Nah. Political leadership needs to start solving problems for the people. Cause when people ain't got shit or ain't got enough they turn real nasty real quick.
If older generations of white folk are 60% racist and get replaced by younger generations that are 40%, that gap would have huge ramifications for elections. The idea the old die off and the clean totally nonracist millennials replace them is overstating a very real phenomenon.

Slightly less bigoted is enough when elections are razor thin.

That aside, yes. We need political leadership yo take charge here.
 

RuGalz

Member
I'm not making generalizing anything it is the truth. The younger crowd is just as racist as the older crowd. We have students singing racist chants, sending mass emails wanting to lynch other people, telling people that they are going to get deported, etc. So how much more do we need before it is more than just "a few bad apples".

Having lived in Texas and now CA I can't say the experiences are anywhere comparable. The ones in blue states I think are bad apples; other places are more serious problems.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
You aren't entirely wrong OP but you should keep the spectrum in mind. Some of those districts are red but by a very slender margin.

This map shows the margins, the bigger the circle the bigger the margin of red or blue. A lot of those are just tiny, tiny dots...

circles.png


(Thanks Ekai for the map)

Doing our part in Dallas, that soul blue dot in North Texas
 

NimbusD

Member
Yeah, other people have mentioned that just because america looks red, doesn't mean it is, as the red is spread out with sparse population. That's the root cause of the differences. There IS a divide, and it's caused, mostly, by people in lower population places never being challenged on their views, never meeting people who aren't like them, never travelling and seeing the world.

While there's a bit of the opposit happening with urban america never having their challenges viewed, it's not quite the same, look at NYC, staten island went to trump, there's people in urban centers with all sorts of view points, but I think it skews liberal because we're looking out for each other because we realize we could all be at the bottom of the totem poll with just a few bad things happening.

America's system gives disproportionately more importance to lower population states by the way congress and the electoral college work. So we're stuck with a government that's much more representative of them than us. That creates some very hard feelings and it's not going to tstop any time soon.

In the future, minority populations are going to grow, but they'll primarily be in higher population places, which has a cap on their influence in government. So idk, the answer if you really want to change america is to move to one of those states. That honestly would be the quickest way to do it. But that's not happening at all, it's the opposite. Liberal people in those states move out and join the urban centers and the population gap grows and the government will never reflect that.
 

johnny956

Member
If the urban centers that grow are in the battleground states (Raleigh N.C for example) it can start swaying those states. Certain red states will slowly edge that way. Arizona will take some time along with Texas but those states are moving that direction.

Trump won Texas by 9 points and that was almost 16 points in 2012. While other states like Missouri move in the other direction. Trump won it by 19 vs 9 in 2012.
 

MogCakes

Member
also, the daily kos quote is funny in that its been a tried message before by Bill Clinton and others. its the more centrist approach on some issues, or fear mongering on issues like crime, which can lead to devastating effects without reasonable opposition.

the simplest answer is charisma over experience, but with limits. not really a different message, but a different delivery.

It's been nice to expand my view of the matter thanks to the replies. The bridging message has been used before in campaigns, but my question is asking what actions can be taken, rather than messaging. Perhaps it boils down to an issue of location and migration patterns as some have said - in addition to and in reaction to automation.

I'm not sure what you mean by fear mongering. EDIT: nevermind, re-read a few times and understood what you're saying.
 

RuGalz

Member
Are you saying because you never experienced racism in California it doesn't exist there?

no, racism exists every where in the world that is fact. but people grow up in racially more diverse area tend to have higher tolerance. how do you even quantify "as bad"?
 
There are always going to be racist people even in racially diverse area. I think it's just a few bad apples making news.

If you don't believe that those bad apples are being emboldened by Trump's rhetoric you're not paying attention. History in the US is pretty clear on that and because of that history this type of talk from our politicians and the trickle-down effect to people is dangerous to be honest.
 
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