Pretty much. Easy money for those involved.
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US confirms their air strike on ISIS killed 105 civilians, the target was 2 snipers
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Pretty much. Easy money for those involved.
Damerman
Member
how have they not realized that this is the most essential question when it comes to this conflict?
mugurumakensei
Member
you're more likely to get massive civilian casualties with ground forces. Stray bullets can go a lot further than bombs intended to be localized to small areas. Not to mention, nothing's stopping a bullet from hitting bombs planted by ISIS.
There's really only 3 options
1) Do nothing. Let ISIS continue to grow oppressing and killing massive amounts of innocents.
2) send in ground troops in prolonged combat scenarios causing massive civilian and military casualties.
3) Use targeted bombs killing fewer civilians in most cases with a substantially less likelihood of killing US and allied military forces.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Yep, and the headline here is intended to make it sound like the us carelessly used excessive force in taking out two small targets and foolishly killed civilians.
The truth being that it sounds like things were planned as well as they could be, but the cowards shielded themselves with civilians and stockpiled munitions and ieds.
Being that the threat they posed was descibed as "two snipers" there would be no reason to expect stockpiled explosives in such a location. They probably were positioned in some kind of vantage point overlooking the city. People don't think about how dangerous a long rifle in a fortified position can be. I am assuming they were seen as higher value targets than two foot soldiers with rifles.
Do you realize how silly the things you are saying right now? You are wondering why people remember terrorist attacks against them and their CLOSE allies over foreign casualties we cause?
You are comparing a chemical attack to mistaken identity bombing? There is a reason chemical attacks get more attention than regular bombings. Bombings can cause suffering, but can be mitigated to certain areas. Chemical attacks can not be mitigated and will always cause suffering. They are not in the same league
There is no hypocritical thinking in this, and just because people do not pay heavy attention to these incidents do not mean they are for or okay with it.
I am not sure what you are talking about, almost all instances of civilian casualties of this level are national news and there are plenty who do scrutinize it. If you expect majority of a population to go up in arms about it, then you are overestimating how politically active most are.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
So blew up 105 civilians on this one. At least two times more deaths than the manchester bombing. Will it get 2x the outrage? Nah not even half the outrage.
Snkfanatic
Banned
That's being VERY generous. Most people will never hear about this.
This is awful
ClosingADoor
Member
I guess. Just so sad there are so many pointless deaths. There will always be civilians suffering in a war zone and killed by accident, but with these bombs it is only one error and there are dozens of deaths right away.
It is not a contest you know. Plus these are different situations, and people tend to care more about things closer to home. That is nothing new or even bad.
I'm sure the Arab world cares. Not exactly great PR for western interventionism.
jts
...hate me...
US is way more far, harder to emigrate to, easier to overall control.
So don't worry, they will just keep retaliating in europe instead.
You have three options;
Do nothing - Face criticism for allowing IS atrocities.
Boots on ground - Face criticism for being occupying force.
Bomb from above - Face criticism for collateral damage.
What happened is heart breaking, but let's not pretend this is not a nuanced and difficult situation.
Do nothing - Face criticism for allowing IS atrocities.
Boots on ground - Face criticism for being occupying force.
Bomb from above - Face criticism for collateral damage.
What happened is heart breaking, but let's not pretend this is not a nuanced and difficult situation.
TheLaughingStock
Member
And what would those losers accomplish overall? They still won't feel comfortable to venture outside without worrying about getting ripped apart AND way more innocent men, women, and children on their side will die relative to innocent Americans. Someone has to let it go and look for positive ways to channel their emotions. I hope it's America that takes the high ground but as people eluded to war is a business and you can profit. So, I imagine people in the Middle East will have to.
TheContact
Member
so the iraqi forces had told US to bomb it, so it wasn't an independent action. they didn't know civilians were in there, and to add onto this ISIS had placed bombs in the building which caused the building to collapse and killing the civilians. really sucks and really sad.
MilkyJoe
Member
Is it even up for debate?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Is there a total number of mid east civilians killed from 9/11 to now?
Or do these things not get talked about.
Or do these things not get talked about.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
The whole "The explosives or chemical weapons were there and stored by IS, we didn't do it," is kind of exactly the same excuse Russia and Syria have used, which the US disagreed with. Can we trust this story?
Not even remotely.
Not even remotely.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
What? Holy shit..
KarneeKarnay
Member
Its almost as if relying on drones is a bad thing?
I mock, but even I, with a pretty dark sense of humor, think this shit just fucked.
If this had been in the US, there would be public outcry, investigations, the end of administration and President. Instead this is barley in the news.
I mock, but even I, with a pretty dark sense of humor, think this shit just fucked.
If this had been in the US, there would be public outcry, investigations, the end of administration and President. Instead this is barley in the news.
ClosingADoor
Member
I don't know what news you watch, but it seems there are plenty of reports about this. There are also studies done and websites dedicated to it.
So yes, it gets talked about. But when it happens a lot and it has no direct relation to the country you are currently in, there will be less front page headlines.
Yoda
Member
Given what happened to Chelsea Manning when he exposed these kind of atrocities in Iraq, I doubt we'll have another whistleblower willing to risk a 35+ year sentence or indefinite exile (Snowden). It's a good thing these kind of stories make it to the news, people need to know that civilians are normally the greatest causality count in military conflicts.
Hold on there cowboy, we're the good guys!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Where is their hashtag?
Yoda
Member
Had they wanted people to treat their death's with meaning on social media they should've known better than to die in a place like Syria! /s
Another wrinkle in the story.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5d894c-4226-11e7-b29f-f40ffced2ddb_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5d894c-4226-11e7-b29f-f40ffced2ddb_story.html
Yikes. Absolutely despicable.
Actually this isn't the reason it won't end. It won't end because terrorism is the best way to get at powerful governments with very powerful military, not because we blow up some civilians (as harsh as it might sound).
Until those places become developed countries and separate their religion with how government should run to at least like U.S, terrorism will always be there. That or the shift from oil as a major global resource and when I say global I mean global. U.S alone transitioning from oil won't stop the Middle-East being such a strategic area in the world.
AcademicSaucer
Member
No way the US would lie tho, they are the good guys
Sunster
Member
how does a pile of rubble develop?
...
I wish a country or coalition could sanction the US and cripple their military. It's come to the point where I'm reluctantly rooting for Russia. Both don't give a shit but the US is on another level of bloodthirsty fuckery.
Constant invasions and instigating civil wars all over the middle-east. Fucking scum. Millions of lives ruined and in ruin.
Sunster
Member
na, Russia kills way more civilians. wayyy more.
Rooting for Russia because of US bloodthirstiness? The Russia that intentionally bombs hospitals, and props up a government that deploys chemical weapons against its own citizens?
That Russia?
I don't believe anything out of the US when it comes to the middle east, neither should anyone else.
They just got caught lying about what happened here.
Who knows what the fuck their intelligence agencies are up to as well. They'll do anything to justify their foreign policy.
Isis appearing in Iraq after the new Iraqi government tells them they can't keep bases there. Randomly attacking Kurds giving a new excuse to arm a side and have presence in Iraq. Then all of a sudden Isis decides they want a piece of Syria as well when they're knee deep in Iraq - how convenient for the US, trying to topple Assad from the very beginning. Making high-production videos showing them burning and drowning people - is that for recruitment too? Seems more like a way to get public anger through the roof to justify intervention.
Something fucking stinks.
Trust in Putin, friend.
The Greek Freak
Member
It's the only force in the region that won't lead to mass genocide fueled by religion if they win.
It's like sticking your hand in a bag of infected needles and getting hepatitis instead of HIV.
Sunster
Member
then watch that White Helmets documentary. They are literally pointing out Russian planes dropping bombs on them.
Like I said, when they start thinking of themselves as a country and benefit one another rather than just one group of people in the country. It is going to take awhile, but it will eventually happen.
You do realize that one of those sources is a U.S airman right? I am not sure I can agree that a warning via twitter account can be considered a legit warning. I am not sure how far up the chain that would go if one did give information through twitter.
The Greek Freak
Member
Global warming will make living in the area so impossible that there will be no real country left by the time any reasonable people have even a semblance of power.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Everyone ready to rationalize this away too?
I had to check if this was satire.
Pretty sure what stinks is your lousy reasoning. You are being to conspiratorial, the only reason ISIS wants a "piece of Syria" (and that isn't all they want btw), is because of how successful they were in Iraq and Syria is unstable and torn by civil war. That is the only reason ISIS managed to and decided to go so far.
Also it isn't just U.S that investigated and determined who used chemical weapons and it also isn't just U.S confirming the bombing of civilian structures by Russian and Syrian armed forces.
It is not even an opinion here, Russia and Syria are factually worse when it comes to civilian casualties; they make up the top 3 reason for civilian deaths along with terrorist organizations.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
You ever get tired of defending Western imperialism with garbage logic?
"Let's kill 100 civilians for two snipers. It's just pragmatic collateral damage you stupid bleeding hearts!"
That's not what happened at all though.
The argument is about how Russia treats civilians in warzones. The answer is 'fucking horrifically'. That's not some made up CIA psyop, that's verifiable fact based on reports from governments and NGOs all over the world.
If you choose to ignore that fact so you can feel smug about rooting for a brutal kleptocratic gangster dictator like Vladimir Putin, well, go ahead. Just understand that you are dismissing reality in order to be edgy. You are so taken in by the strongman persona that you will gloss over literal war crimes.
You're minimising the effects that foreign policy has had on the region as a whole. I also object to you saying that it will continue to be that way "until those places become developed countries... when they start thinking of themselves as a country and benefit one another rather than just one group of people in the country."
It's a rather narrow-minded way of looking at it, especially when we're considering a number of nations here. If we consider Syria or even Libya just a decade ago, whilst these countries had deep issues, especially the case of Libya, the problems here weren't the same problems places that places like Afghanistan had. Iraq too had its own set of problems, a common theme no doubt but countries with larger tribal areas are a little hard to bring into a 'developed' world.
It's rather dismissive to point out that secularism is the answer for governments when we know how the US tried to shape Iran with Pahlavi. Or even before with other governments in the region. Afghanistan has been completely decimated and it's a country that has had real trouble developing since the decade-long war against the Mujahideen. Here we had the Soviet invasion of the country. Then, just 12 years later was the US invasion of Afghanistan. There are entire generations who have only known war and loss. These are countries that actually haven't had the opportunity to develop.
The fact is, all of these countries play a strategic role and have access to a lot of natural resources. Oil specifically, and you're not in the wrong for identifying that. But because of this very fact, and outside pressures and influence such as the West have truly put the region into turmoil. Afghanistan and Iraq in particular. Syria and Libya are different animals, but all of them are suffering in part due to Western Intervention. At least, the kind that tries to solve the issues with a hammer. Smashing things up and hoping you've got something working at the end isn't a good strategy. Consider Libya and the transitional phase thrown out during the protests. Consider the rejection of the Russian-led peace deal in 2012 for Syria. It's failure after failure, and what we end up with is a monster like ISIS festering and seizing the opportunity to extend its hand.
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