NickFire
Member
I can only speculate as to why he lost. But my guess is anyone claiming that is probably trying to set a narrative as to why the party should ignore her win for now.
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(US) First Democratic Socialist poised to take congressional seat.
- Thread starter Moneal
- Start date
I can only speculate as to why he lost. But my guess is anyone claiming that is probably trying to set a narrative as to why the party should ignore her win for now.
appaws
Banned
The United States does not have the demographic makeup to sustain that, and it will only get worse going forward. We are big and sprawling and lack social cohesion. Maybe some breakaway state or group of states like Washington/Oregon could pull it off, but not the US as a whole.
Whenever a party goes into the wilderness after getting thumped, it has to redefine itself. This is a part of that...but the Democratic Party also has to accept the fact that you won't win nationally with this model, at least not for another 40-50 years.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If the Democrats don't provide a coherent vision and solid platform, we will. "I'm not Trump" is not a winning strategy, but they seem to embrace it nonetheless.
I don't think it should be ignored; it is significant. But this is a big variable that can't be ignored either. She was running against a guy who had lost touch with her district.
The problem the Democratic Party has is that it's not one party. It's the left + people who the right hates. So there isn't really any overall vision.
Enosh
Member
Lee Kaun Yew, former prime minister of Singapore
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Her ideas sound socialistic but I have no idea how she's gonna implement them.
In scope of one state or city probably possible. Or city-state which is new york.
In scope of one state or city probably possible. Or city-state which is new york.
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DiscoJer
Member
I don't think that's true in the US though. Hispanics tend to be very religious (and Christian) but overwhelmingly vote Democrat because they view socialism as good for their economic interests, except for those that experienced it in Cuba.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Hispanics are actually surprisingly conservative. Immigration and religion are things the GOP speaks to.
JORMBO
Darkness no more
I don't understand this lady. None of her ideas sound slightly realistic.
"Abolish ICE". Ok, but they do lots of important work. How is this even possible? Are democrats really going to start running on this as one of their main ideas? Why not kick out some realistic ideas that help American citizens in need rather then illegal immigrants?
$15 government jobs for anyone who wants one. How do we pay for this? If the government doesn't have a project in a particular area are they just going to make something up to hire people?
Free healthcare & college for all. I actually don't mind these ideas, but again I am confused as to how we would pay for this. I think both these areas need big improvements, but I don't think her ideas are realistic with the way things are now.
"Abolish ICE". Ok, but they do lots of important work. How is this even possible? Are democrats really going to start running on this as one of their main ideas? Why not kick out some realistic ideas that help American citizens in need rather then illegal immigrants?
$15 government jobs for anyone who wants one. How do we pay for this? If the government doesn't have a project in a particular area are they just going to make something up to hire people?
Free healthcare & college for all. I actually don't mind these ideas, but again I am confused as to how we would pay for this. I think both these areas need big improvements, but I don't think her ideas are realistic with the way things are now.
Dev1lXYZ
Member
Fact Check: ‘Girl from the Bronx’ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Grew Up in One of Richest U.S. Counties
So what’s the issue? Ocasio-Cortez omits that for most of her formative years, she was actually raised in one of the United States’ wealthiest counties.
Around the age of five, Alexandria’s architect father Sergio Ocasio moved the family from the “planned community” of Parkchester in the Bronx to a home in Yorktown Heights, a wealthy suburb in Westchester County. The New York Times describes her childhood home as “a modest two-bedroom house on a quiet street.” In a 1999 profile of the area, when Ocasio-Cortez would have been ten years old, the Times lauded Yorktown Heights’ “diversity of housing in a scenic setting” – complete with two golf courses.
The paper quoted Linda Cooper, the town supervisor, describing Yorktown as ”a folksy area where people can come, kick off their shoes, wander around, sit in a cafe, listen to a concert in the park, or go to the theater.”
After high school, Ocasio-Cortez studied international relations and economics at Boston University and worked for Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA). Only after college did Ocasio-Cortez return to the Parkchester complex, where she launched Brook Avenue Press, a publishing group aimed at improving the public image of the Bronx.
Westchester County – which the Washington Post, in a glowing profile on Ocasio-Cortez, describes as only “middle class” – ranks #8 in the nation for the counties with the “highest average incomes among the wealthiest one percent of residents.” According to the Economic Policy Institute, the county’s average annual income of the top one percent is a staggering $4,326,049.
Yorktown Heights, specifically, offers a sharp contrast from Bronx living. According to USA.com, the town’s population is 81 percent white, and median household income is $96,413 – nearly double the average for both New York state and the nation, according to data from 2010-2014.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ortez-grew-up-in-one-of-richest-u-s-counties/
So what’s the issue? Ocasio-Cortez omits that for most of her formative years, she was actually raised in one of the United States’ wealthiest counties.
Around the age of five, Alexandria’s architect father Sergio Ocasio moved the family from the “planned community” of Parkchester in the Bronx to a home in Yorktown Heights, a wealthy suburb in Westchester County. The New York Times describes her childhood home as “a modest two-bedroom house on a quiet street.” In a 1999 profile of the area, when Ocasio-Cortez would have been ten years old, the Times lauded Yorktown Heights’ “diversity of housing in a scenic setting” – complete with two golf courses.
The paper quoted Linda Cooper, the town supervisor, describing Yorktown as ”a folksy area where people can come, kick off their shoes, wander around, sit in a cafe, listen to a concert in the park, or go to the theater.”
After high school, Ocasio-Cortez studied international relations and economics at Boston University and worked for Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA). Only after college did Ocasio-Cortez return to the Parkchester complex, where she launched Brook Avenue Press, a publishing group aimed at improving the public image of the Bronx.
Westchester County – which the Washington Post, in a glowing profile on Ocasio-Cortez, describes as only “middle class” – ranks #8 in the nation for the counties with the “highest average incomes among the wealthiest one percent of residents.” According to the Economic Policy Institute, the county’s average annual income of the top one percent is a staggering $4,326,049.
Yorktown Heights, specifically, offers a sharp contrast from Bronx living. According to USA.com, the town’s population is 81 percent white, and median household income is $96,413 – nearly double the average for both New York state and the nation, according to data from 2010-2014.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ortez-grew-up-in-one-of-richest-u-s-counties/
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
FIFY
Phoenix RISING
Banned
I really came to say that after doing some reading up on Ocasio-Cortez, I wonder if it is possible to think about Democrats as the center-right.
Other Democrats have responded to her win in lukewarm fashion.
They really don't want her. She makes them look bad. Complacent.
Other Democrats have responded to her win in lukewarm fashion.
They really don't want her. She makes them look bad. Complacent.
luigimario
Banned
Fact Check: ‘Girl from the Bronx’ Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Grew Up in One of Richest U.S. Counties
So what’s the issue? Ocasio-Cortez omits that for most of her formative years, she was actually raised in one of the United States’ wealthiest counties.
Around the age of five, Alexandria’s architect father Sergio Ocasio moved the family from the “planned community” of Parkchester in the Bronx to a home in Yorktown Heights, a wealthy suburb in Westchester County. The New York Times describes her childhood home as “a modest two-bedroom house on a quiet street.” In a 1999 profile of the area, when Ocasio-Cortez would have been ten years old, the Times lauded Yorktown Heights’ “diversity of housing in a scenic setting” – complete with two golf courses.
The paper quoted Linda Cooper, the town supervisor, describing Yorktown as ”a folksy area where people can come, kick off their shoes, wander around, sit in a cafe, listen to a concert in the park, or go to the theater.”
After high school, Ocasio-Cortez studied international relations and economics at Boston University and worked for Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA). Only after college did Ocasio-Cortez return to the Parkchester complex, where she launched Brook Avenue Press, a publishing group aimed at improving the public image of the Bronx.
Westchester County – which the Washington Post, in a glowing profile on Ocasio-Cortez, describes as only “middle class” – ranks #8 in the nation for the counties with the “highest average incomes among the wealthiest one percent of residents.” According to the Economic Policy Institute, the county’s average annual income of the top one percent is a staggering $4,326,049.
Yorktown Heights, specifically, offers a sharp contrast from Bronx living. According to USA.com, the town’s population is 81 percent white, and median household income is $96,413 – nearly double the average for both New York state and the nation, according to data from 2010-2014.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...ortez-grew-up-in-one-of-richest-u-s-counties/
Breitbart? Mate come on, get some better sources for news.
Dev1lXYZ
Member
Westchester County has the second highest per capita income in New York State.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_locations_by_per_capita_income
The median household income in Yorktown Heights is: $96,413.
https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/new_york/yorktown_heights
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_locations_by_per_capita_income
The median household income in Yorktown Heights is: $96,413.
https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/city/new_york/yorktown_heights
AmericanPixel
Member
One of the wildest things about President Trump is that his actions, his persona, just him in general, he draws the Left further & further left until they become radical. Bernie and Ocasio-Cortez is what you get.
But in doing that, it scares GOP voters like myself and drives us to the polls en massé.
The Dems have a little bit of a Civil War brewing within their ranks as well. I loved Pelosi's reaction right after. But that old guard, Pelosi, Schumer, Crowley they have to know that if they don't get results during the midterms...their asses will be on the line.
But in doing that, it scares GOP voters like myself and drives us to the polls en massé.
The Dems have a little bit of a Civil War brewing within their ranks as well. I loved Pelosi's reaction right after. But that old guard, Pelosi, Schumer, Crowley they have to know that if they don't get results during the midterms...their asses will be on the line.
TheLaughingStock
Member
It would be paid for just like any other federal endeavor the US does. You'd do it like the Trump tax cut (smart) by issuing treasuries or raise taxes and cut spending like the Democrats did with Obamacare (dumb).
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Love it!
Dev1lXYZ
Member
That looks like a motel room. Notice the camera doesn’t show the people they are addressing, either. My guess is at most 3 people- possibly family members!
Phoenix RISING
Banned
That looks like a motel room. Notice the camera doesn’t show the people they are addressing, either. My guess is at most 3 people- possibly family members!
Practice makes perfect.
take_it_easy
Banned
I get the impression both Dems and GOP are struggling to deal with their respective extremes gaining popularity. It will be interesting to see what works best this coming election, embrace the extremists or hold the center?
Many thought trump would sink the GOP with his "extremism" and Hillary was the perfect left-of-center candidate. Things narrowly went the other way.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Right now GOP is going full "Trumpism" because it won the presidency.
The left does not have an equivalent.
HarryKS
Member
Cubans.
Cleared_Hot
Member
On one hand I'm excited a 28 year old could topple a ten term career politician but on the other I am appalled that a socialist can get elected in the United States.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I think it is fantastic!
A good wakeup call for the Democrats. The independents behind Bernie were not theirs and aren't committed to the Democratic cause.
Also shows the crazy amount of support for political outsiders these days. I wish more outsiders would run on their merits and not tug a party line.
A good wakeup call for the Democrats. The independents behind Bernie were not theirs and aren't committed to the Democratic cause.
Also shows the crazy amount of support for political outsiders these days. I wish more outsiders would run on their merits and not tug a party line.
It's Jeff
Banned
Agreed on all points. I'd like to see what she does with the opportunity. If she does well, I hope it opens the door for different representation across the country.
Who cares if it's breitbart. Is it true or not?
You guys are championing socialists. We are seeing your "equivalents" right now.
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
Good thread.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Question for the people bringing up the affluent portions of her upbringing: is she unable to fairly represent her constituents just because she had money growing up? I'm confused here. Sounds like he got voted in by reaching out to the community.
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HaveButOneLife
Banned
Look at Europe..
It’s about having socialist viewpoint on how the taxes a distributed and used to give everyone a fighting chance and security.. with a democratic twist of not forcing those values down everyone’s throat with out a democratic vote..
So it’s the economic socialism with out the dictatorship
I thought social democrats weren't Marxists?
And the current DNC is the Queen of England. Honestly, it's not anybody else's fault but those who slandered him and were continuously virtue-signaling, so I wouldn't be surprised if he won again, as much as I would never vote for either party.
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
You mean, besides the obvious fact that she lied?
Spoken like a true chavista."Upper middle-class people speaking for the poor, and telling you what to think isn't a bug, it's a feature"
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Hmm, I'm not sure how to understand that.
Is he defending her or agreeing with the people pointing out her affluence?
In either case, I don't really ascribe to the whole "oh! Irony! She has money but claims to care for the poor? Liar!" thing. It's a stupid insult and it's stupid whenever either side uses it because I know a ton of people with money who are very kind-hearted and generous toward the poor. I also know that we should give people the chance to experience life and change direction. Sounds like she moved back to the old neighborhood, presumably to get closer to the political issues she was going to be eventually representing? What if she grew up rich, had a change of heart or something, and then wanted to help the poor? Maybe she wanted to help the poor all along? Are people not allowed to change their minds anymore.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
"Upper middle-class people speaking for the poor, and telling you what to think isn't a bug, it's a feature"
I mean, Malcolm X was from the streets, but after going to prison and spending his time reading, he shed the persona of "city red" to become a revolutionary. He didn't go to college, but he was educated.
Gramsci, a neo-Marxist calls such individuals "organic intellectuals."
Another school of thought from Spivak asking if the "sub-altern" can even speak for themselves, is still subject to academic debate in post-colonial studies even to this day.
You kinda have to know and have things to figure out how to get yourself or others out of a bad situation. This is where empathy for your fellow human comes, or as Jesus says, "To whom much is given, much is expected" (Luke 12:48) or put another way, "If you care for the least of these, you have cared for me." (Matt 25:40)
5secondrulesucks
Banned
if fenix likes her that means that i cant
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I'm curious, have you read Tolstoy's 'The Kingdom of God Is Within You'?
Phoenix RISING
Banned
cryptoadam
Banned
comes across as someone who goes by slogans and what people have feed her.
her response to "occupation" on PBS shows her willingness to speak on an issue but not have any actual knowledge outside of slogans
https://nypost.com/2018/07/17/ocasio-cortez-ignites-controversy-with-comments-on-israeli-occupation/
I don't want to delve into an Israel debate, but her answer didn't exactly inspire confidence that she actually knows what she is talking about.
her response to "occupation" on PBS shows her willingness to speak on an issue but not have any actual knowledge outside of slogans
https://nypost.com/2018/07/17/ocasio-cortez-ignites-controversy-with-comments-on-israeli-occupation/
I don't want to delve into an Israel debate, but her answer didn't exactly inspire confidence that she actually knows what she is talking about.
Hotel Security
Member
For one, when people mention the "Scandanavian nations" they really just mean Sweden who gets high marks in everything. The others are not quite so pristine.
For two, the idea that the US could somehow run a system like Sweden is laughable and classic utopian idealism.
Sweden has 10-million people (the population of Michigan) and the US has close to 340 million. You can not run a wellfare state like Sweden with 340 million fucking people. You simply can't do this here. People need to stop pretending you can. Go ahead and look at the countries that have LOTS of people and see how well socialism works for them. The Soviet Union's a lovely example.
Sweden also has basically zero diversity. It's really easy to have great race relations when you have basically one race. Again, look at any country with a lot of racial diversity and you'll see a lot of the same problems the US has...and ours are far more reasonable than many other places where violence over race is a way of life.
Sweden is nice and they're one of the few places where corruption hasn't completely ruined what they had going. But them getting it to work was a 1 in a 100 chance and it's not at all compatible with the United States. Of course, if you're cool with having 60% of your paycheck taken from you (compared to 15-20% here) then feel free to move there.
And yet was still quite stupid because he should have realized his militant method was never going to work and only made race relations worse. Heck, his own people had him killed which should tell you everything about his entire movement. Regardless of the good pub he got, him and his movement were a total failure that arguably made things worse.
For two, the idea that the US could somehow run a system like Sweden is laughable and classic utopian idealism.
Sweden has 10-million people (the population of Michigan) and the US has close to 340 million. You can not run a wellfare state like Sweden with 340 million fucking people. You simply can't do this here. People need to stop pretending you can. Go ahead and look at the countries that have LOTS of people and see how well socialism works for them. The Soviet Union's a lovely example.
Sweden also has basically zero diversity. It's really easy to have great race relations when you have basically one race. Again, look at any country with a lot of racial diversity and you'll see a lot of the same problems the US has...and ours are far more reasonable than many other places where violence over race is a way of life.
Sweden is nice and they're one of the few places where corruption hasn't completely ruined what they had going. But them getting it to work was a 1 in a 100 chance and it's not at all compatible with the United States. Of course, if you're cool with having 60% of your paycheck taken from you (compared to 15-20% here) then feel free to move there.
And yet was still quite stupid because he should have realized his militant method was never going to work and only made race relations worse. Heck, his own people had him killed which should tell you everything about his entire movement. Regardless of the good pub he got, him and his movement were a total failure that arguably made things worse.
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NickFire
Member
Per her website she "graduated from Boston University, majoring in economics and international relations." Honestly, her answer on the Middle East question you mentioned, is a rather dark stain on BU's international relations program in my humble opinion.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
His "militant method," alongside other Civil Rights activists such as the Deacons of Defense and Justice served as a foil for MLK's, which made MLK more appealing even though that, too, was met with fierce resistance. After all, there are no "Bloody Sundays" associated with Malcolm X.
Malcolm X, like MLK, was targeted by COINTELPRO. His assassination had to do with in-fighting between Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad, as the latter discovered that the former was no saint and saw him as a threat to his own power. His "methods" were an asset, not a reason why he was assassinated.
Do you remember the Million Man March? Unlike MLK's organizations like SNCC, SCLC, or COFO, the Nation of Islam is still around....
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Oh Joe, what are you doing man...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/vote-joe-crowley-for-working-families-1531868231
What's up with Joes?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/vote-joe-crowley-for-working-families-1531868231
What's up with Joes?
Vicetrailia
Member
She's actually perfect because she has drive and energy. Obviously she's very smart, so now it's time to become a politician, and fast because things change fast.
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Phoenix RISING
Banned
I mean, if we can get even one of those things, it would be an improvement.
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