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US Incarceration Rates Exceed those of Jim Crow Era

I’ve been working in federal corrections for about a year now and it really has been an eye opening experience. It’s one thing just to look at statistics, but once you are there and putting faces to these statistics and interacting with these people on a daily basis. You’re entire view starts to warp and you become more jaded about the whole thing.
 

kirblar

Member
Just end private prisons. The government WILL want to cut costs, and one of the easiest ways is to not be jailing harmless criminals for fucking ever. Save that for people who are a genuine menace to society.
Private Prisons absolutely should be done away w/, agreed.
 
Yet another way the united states is broken beyond repair. We are a joke of a country that needs a new contistution and sweeping over hauls of the entire government on the state and local level. All three branches need to completely redesigned.
no, actually, this is wrong
 

sphagnum

Banned
Very interesting article, lots to chew on. I wish he went into a bit more depth about it stemming from a cultural change though; he even admits people won't like to hear that because it's not concrete enough. He does a good job detailing how x and y factors all had a part to play but I feel like the argument could be a bit more cohesive. Maybe thats just me being tired after work and wanting simple answers.

The part about the prisoner having his skin scrubbed off was horrifying.
 
At prevailing rates of incarceration, one in every fifteen Americans will serve time in a prison. For men the rate is more than one in nine. For African American men, the expected lifetime rate runs even higher: roughly one in three.

One in three. One. In. Three.
 

Lime

Member
Dan Berger and Mariame Kaba and David Stein did a counter-piece on prison abolition and the work that they do.

Critics often dismiss prison abolition without a clear understanding of what it even is. Some on the Left, most recently Roger Lancaster in Jacobin, describe the goal of abolishing prisons as a fever-dream demand to destroy all prisons tomorrow. But Lancaster's disregard for abolition appears based on a reading of a highly idiosyncratic and unrepresentative group of abolitionist thinkers and evinces little knowledge of decades of abolitionist organizing and its powerful impacts.

To us, people with a combined several decades of experience in the prison abolition movement, abolition is both a lodestar and a practical necessity. Central to abolitionist work are the many fights for non-reformist reforms — those measures that reduce the power of an oppressive system while illuminating the system's inability to solve the crises it creates.

The late Rose Braz, a longtime staffer and member of Critical Resistance emphasized this point in a 2008 interview. ”A prerequisite to seeking any social change is the naming of it," she said. ”In other words, even though the goal we seek may be far away, unless we name it and fight for it today, it will never come." This is the starting point of abolition, connecting a radical critique of prisons and other forms of state violence with a broader transformative vision.

Abolitionists have worked to end solitary confinement and the death penalty, stop the construction of new prisons, eradicate cash bail, organized to free people from prison, opposed the expansion of punishment through hate crime laws and surveillance, pushed for universal health care, and developed alternative modes of conflict resolution that do not rely on the criminal punishment system.

Abolitionists refuse to abide the paradigm where ”prisons [serve] as catchall solutions to social problems," as Ruth Wilson Gilmore has put it. As a result, abolitionists have been among the most consistent advocates for creating conditions that improve people's health, safety, and security.

None of that was evident in Lancaster's article, however. He engages neither the breadth of theorizing of abolition (works by Ruth Wilson Gilmore, Beth Richie, Erica Meiners, Dean Spade, Liat Ben Moshe, Eric Stanley, among many others) nor, more importantly, the work of abolitionist organizations (BYP 100, Critical Resistance, Incite!, Survived and Punished, among many others). Lancaster describes abolitionists as divorced from reality. Yet even a cursory review of actually existing abolitionism reveals how wrong this view is.

His suggestion that abolition is not an advisable goal since it ”shows little sign of winning over the wider public" misunderstands how social change occurs. Such an argument could easily have been mobilized (and was mobilized) to undermine the abolitionist movement in 1835; the women's suffrage movement in 1912; the fights for industrial unionism in 1929; the civil rights movement in 1953; and the presidential prospects for Bernie Sanders in 2014, to name but a few examples.

History provides too many instances where our hubristic expectations of what is possible in a given temporal horizon are chastened. Most abolitionists, in our experience, would subscribe to Nelson Mandela's adage that ”it only seems impossible until it is done."

If anything, prospects for developing mass consciousness about prison abolition are growing. In 1998, when the prison industrial complex — the linked relations of surveillance, policing, and imprisonment — showed little sign of abating, a collective of organizers and scholars called for a one-time conference to discuss the problem of prisons. Expecting a few hundred people, they were surprised to find several thousand attend a conference framed around abolishing the prison industrial complex. Since then, Critical Resistance has become a national chapter-based organization connected to a number of grassroots campaigns. Two years later, thousands gathered at Incite! Women of Color Against Violence's convening in Santa Cruz to build on some of what had been discussed in 1998 and to insert the dimension of racialized gender violence into the conversation.

There are many critical questions to ask about abolitionist horizons, the traps of carceral reform, and the barriers we face to substantive change. There is an urgent need for robust debate on the Left about how to dismantle the carceral state and what will replace it. But debate must engage what exists in on-the-ground organizing rather than what exists on bumper stickers or social media

More at the link: https://jacobinmag.com/2017/08/prison-abolition-reform-mass-incarceration
 

whitehawk

Banned
Most ridiculous thing about the US, is that if you are in Jail you lose the right to vote. And in many cases even when you're released, you're voting rights remain stolen from you. In Canada and many other developed nations, you're still allowed to vote, in while you are currently in jail.

Adam Ruins Everything has a good piece on it:

https://youtu.be/EAwUKSFgjWQ

(Go to 12:15)
 
Money and our unhinged version of capitalism rear their ugly face again in our justice system:

Police departments make money

Courts make money

AGs look good for donors

Prisons make money

Rapacious bail bonds shops make billions

Global insurance companies that bankroll bail bonds make money

Corporations enjoy state-enforced slaves in 2017 to build their shit for free

America has become an experiment in avarice and racism gone wrong. Our present course as a society is not sustainable.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I think the bit about liberals' bad messaging is a pretty common complaint you can take with a lot of progressive causes. You're fighting against a far simpler and tempting "law and order" message. Even people on this forum bay for blood when it's a crime that they find horrendous. It's far simpler and tidier to "punish the bad guys" than try to rehab anyone.
 
You could read the abolitionist response above you

I mean, you clearly didn't read the article when you posted, considering you didn't even try to discuss any of its points, so why should anyone give your articles anything but the same courtesy?
 

Somnid

Member
Well back then you just killed people and got off scott free.

Wait a minute...

I think at some level we have to accept that letting some heinous crimes go un/underpunished is a fair tradeoff versus the mess we've created. The system needs to bias for progress and reconstruction, not vengeance.
 

entremet

Member
Criminal justice reform is a hard sell. Even the slightest perception of being "soft on crime" fucks up your chances of re-election.

Well the article said we were never this bloodthirsty. Tough on crime talk didn't start until the end of the Civil Rights Era. I wonder what's the connection there? Hmm?
 

Guevara

Member
...Indeed, as a result of the legal reforms of the 1960s, the American prison population was shrinking, and the state was developing alternatives to incarceration: kinder, gentler institutions that focused on supervision, reeducation, and rehabilitation. To many observers, the prison system actually seemed to be reforming itself out of existence. Leo Bersani's review of Foucault's Discipline and Punish began with the (now astonishing) sentence ”The era of prisons may be nearly over."

Nothing in Foucault's analysis — or anyone else's, as David Garland has remarked — could have predicted what followed: a sudden punitive turn designed to incapacitate prisoners rather than rehabilitate them. The practice of locking people up for long periods of time became the criminal justice system's organizing principle, and prisons turned into a ”reservation system, a quarantine zone" where ”purportedly dangerous individuals are segregated in the name of public safety." ...

Gee, I wonder what happened at the end of the 60s.
 

Foffy

Banned
Why, or rather, how do people like America when it is so clearly a failed state when stuff like this happens as frequently as the shining of the sun?
 
Criminal justice reform is a hard sell. Even the slightest perception of being "soft on crime" fucks up your chances of re-election.

Pushing for full-stop criminal justice reform is a moral and human imperative. There is no room for bullshit political calculations when it comes to forcefully pushing for this as a platform, because millions of Americans and their families/communities are deeply suffering, and there is no "reformation" of individuals going on. Our criminal justice system is a perverse mill of human slaves that have no hope for a life once they enter the system.

It is time to get BOLD about pushing for this. There is no "slow progress" to be found when all we do is pander to the money players within the criminal justice system.
 
Pushing for full-stop criminal justice reform is a moral and human imperative. There is no room for bullshit political calculations when it comes to forcefully pushing for this as a platform, because millions of Americans and their families/communities are deeply suffering, and there is no "reformation" of individuals going on. Our criminal justice system is a perverse mill of human slaves that have no hope for a life once they enter the system.

It is time to get BOLD about pushing for this. There is no "slow progress" to be found when all we do is pander to the money players within the criminal justice system.

I get you're passionate, but slow progress or fast, "bullshit" political calculations will always be a factor. If you can't sell your policy you fucked up.And you'll be making zero progress with no power. It's impossible to change things from the outside, those who claim to did so by pressuring the inside.
 
Well the article said we were never this bloodthirsty. Tough on crime talk didn't start until the end of the Civil Rights Era. I wonder what's the connection there? Hmm?

During that time period the post-war population boom were becoming adults.

I get you're passionate, but slow progress or fast, "bullshit" political calculations will always be a factor. If you can't sell your policy you fucked up.And you'll be making zero progress with no power. It's impossible to change things from the outside, those who claim to did so by pressuring the inside.

If democrats can't sell marijuana legalization and restrictions on generous opioid prescriptions then they need new blood.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Well the article said we were never this bloodthirsty. Tough on crime talk didn't start until the end of the Civil Rights Era. I wonder what's the connection there? Hmm?
I don't think it's as easy an answer as simply racism, though. Society went through a massive amount of changes in the midcentury and IMO lost and has lost a lot of its cohesiveness. Some of that was for the better (what good is that surface unity if it's underpinned by inequality?) but it's made it far harder for the country to come together. Stuff like the news media playing up violence, rapes, and child abuse have led to a more violent perception of the world, reinforcing reflexive actions on crime. A lot of black leaders of the time wanted tougher crime laws, and that was basically weaponized by people like the Nixon administration to push policies that disproportionately hurt minority groups.

Even now it's part of the problem why it's so hard to come together on issues the vast majority of Americans actually agree on. Social trust is gone.

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/trust-me/
 

Rockandrollclown

lookwhatyou'vedone
Pushing for full-stop criminal justice reform is a moral and human imperative. There is no room for bullshit political calculations when it comes to forcefully pushing for this as a platform, because millions of Americans and their families/communities are deeply suffering, and there is no "reformation" of individuals going on. Our criminal justice system is a perverse mill of human slaves that have no hope for a life once they enter the system.

It is time to get BOLD about pushing for this. There is no "slow progress" to be found when all we do is pander to the money players within the criminal justice system.

I mean it absolutely is, but if you want to stay in office to make changes you need to sell your message to the voters. Its a hard sell. Anecdotally, I argue constantly with liberal friends about how a focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment is needed. They just think I'm an insane lefty. If its a hard sell to people who consistently vote Democrat, its going to be damn near impossible to get moderates on board. I agree bold actions are needed, just not sure how you get them into place.

Fuck, we as a society think poor treatment of prisoners is hilarious. How many jokes do you hear about guys getting raped in prison? When people think fucking rape is acceptable punishment, not sure how you get these people to see treating prisoners like human beings is beneficial to society.
 

Morat

Banned
I can't wait for the American version of Gulag Archipelago to be published.

Seriously though, how can this be justified? - "Our great nation,best there has ever been, is largely composed of criminal elements"
 
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