Yes.
US Supreme Court temporarily halts law requiring voters to present present photo IDs.
- Thread starter CrazyDude
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Yes.
shinobi602
Member
Oh, I didn't know that. How would anyone know who you are? Or you are who you say you are?
Or if someone commits a crime and is captured by police for example...no way of identifying an individual?
FalsettoVibe
Member
Glad that this was blocked.
There isn't any in person voter fraud in the US. Its a nonexistent problem, the Bush administration looked for years and couldn't find any. Why put something in place to prevent a problem that doesn't exist? Especially when all it would do is make it harder for people to vote.
I don't think I've shown my ID to anyone in years.
Save for the last election because of the voter id law.
You might need ID to do some things, like drive, but you are perfectly free to go through life as a US citizen without ever needing photo ID.
This seems like a "We'll wait for it to become a problem before we worry about it." I don't like the idea of unchecked voting.
It's been a couple years since we started voting.
shinobi602
Member
I understand that, I'm just trying to understand how a person would then be identified if the need arises in some legal manner...
We can barely get people to vote once, let alone multiple times.
Serious answer: Without the photo ID stuff, Wisconsin law still requires voters to register, which involves bringing in something like an electricity bill addressed to you with an address in the jurisdiction you are voting in.
When you go to vote at the polls, your name and address are recorded and checked against the registry. If you try to vote under a fake name or vote more than once in different districts, this can be detected by auditing the logs.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I am still hesitant to the idea of unchecked because i personally think it is not a question of if it has or hasn't happened but when people find ways to make it happen more with a more polarized political environment.
Birth Certificate. If you were born in a US Hospital, there is a record. You are also issued a Social Security Number.
A republican group tried to commit voter fraud to prove it can happen and justify voter id laws.
They were caught
Finger prints I suppose.
Backlogger
Member
Shouldn't be. Banks require it to open an account and most people have to have a bank account these days to get by. I worked in banking for 9 years and everyone, even poor people, had IDs.
I think state IDs should be free and fairly easy to obtain and renew (IE not waiting 3-4 hours at the DMV). I think having some type of check to prove who you are at a voting booth makes sense. On one hand you don't want to make it too hard to vote (which its become super easy in the last 10 years with early voting, voting by mail, etc.) but you also don't want to make it too easy as to attempt to prevent voter fraud.
On the renewal point. After living in NV for 4 years I had to show up in person to renew my DL which I thought was silly considering how long the wait times are in Las Vegas. Seemed totally unnecessary and if I had an inflexible work schedule and/or had transportation issues it would be extremely difficult to renew.
We do this all the time in society. Here are a few methods:
-Knowledge-based: SSN, usernames & passwords, cryptographic private keys, tax information, security questions
-Bioinformatics: Dental records, DNA, fingerprints, handwriting, vocal patterns
-Trusted third parties
No.
http://www.politicspa.com/turzai-voter-id-law-means-romney-can-win-pa/37153/
PA House Majority Leader Mike Turzai @ Republican State Committee meeting in the last election:
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/n...s/early-voting-curbs-called-power-play/nTFDy/
Ex-Chairman of Republican Party of Florida Jim Greer (indicted for stealing money through phony campaign operations):
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/north-carolina-embraces-honest-elections/
Conservative pundit Phyllis Schafly on early voting:
When election vote fraud occurs, it tends to be in the form of ballot box stuffing and other measures taken by the people who manage the elections, not the general voting population. Having one person get their vote counted twice is a pretty minor risk compared to an election official causing an entire shipment of votes to disappear.
No matter which way you look at it, voter ID laws will disenfranchise far more legitimate voters than prevent any wrong-doing. If you want to actually prevent voter fraud, you enforce strict third-party monitoring of election officials.
djplaeskool
Member
Shocking News.
Republican lawmakers know exactly what they're doing. They know that voter ID laws surpress demographics that tend to vote democratic. They push a narrative of stopping fraud onto their base, which laps it up.
To be clear, voter fraud happens. What doesn't happen is in-person voter impersonation fraud, the type of voter fraud that voter ID laws would theoretically curtail.
It's not a ruling. It's a step to preserve the status quo so the Supreme Court can hear the case. They may end up upholding the law.
theprodigy
Member
It's funny how bad they are at being subtle about it.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Actually, people do commit voter fraud, but it's almost never the type that would be deterred by requiring picture ID, it's almost always absentee ballot fraud. In person, at the voting booth, fraud is terribly ineffiecent, but when you've got tens of millions of voters, some dolt is bound to think it's worth it.
Edit to add: Just to make clear, just because I'm saying there is some non-zero level of in person voting fraud does not mean I support voter ID laws. We're talking ~1 in a million levels of fraud here, I'll accept such a miniscule level of fraud if it means people aren't hindered from voting just because they don't drive or can't afford to get an ID.
The Faceless Master
Member
it's ever so slightly harder for the democratic leaning voters, hence the laws being passed by republicans. they aren't doing this shit to stop fraud, they're dong it to gain a political advantage in voter turnout.
The Faceless Master
Member
i've been living in SW GA for a few years and it's DAMN SCARY how many people here just do not have a bank account and cash their checks at Walmart or Publix and just use cash everywhere.
Nope.
You ever wonder why all those check cashing places exist? Why grocery stores have check cashing?
A lot of people use cash and don't have bank accounts.
As has been said, voter fraud of that nature is a nonexistent problem.
IrishNinja
Member
awesome news, and of course the treacherous 3 were against it
The Faceless Master
Member
it's a bigger issue than not doing it. the only good reason to do it is to stack the deck. that's why one side is pushing so hard for it. they ran the numbers, you can count on that.
titiklabingapat
Member
Legally, you have to give your actual name if asked. The police then tries to identify you, either via fingerprint or other evidence to clear you. You do not have to have an ID with you.
acheron_xl
Member
Requiring voter ID is only one prong of the attack. Reducing access to places to actually get ID's is another. I grew up in small-town Wisconsin. The local DMV was only staffed one day every two weeks. Considering state budget cuts, I wouldn't be surprised if it was fewer than that now. If you needed something on any other day, it was a 20 mile drive at least, which isn't something everyone can do.
And it costs money, making it a defacto poll tax, which is unconstitutional (or should be, anyway.)
CadetMahoney
Member
http://www.knowmyrights.org/knowledgebase/faq/police-encounters/when-do-i-have-to-show-id
In reality a cop comes up to you and asks for I.D. if you don't have any than it doesn't work out for you (imo).
ConfusingJazz
Member
In person voter fraud isn't how you fix an election. You don't do it at the voter booth.
You do it at the county office.
People weren't acting like dead people to vote for Kennedy in Illinois... allegedly. They were added in there after they got the boxes to Cook County offices.
You do it at the county office.
People weren't acting like dead people to vote for Kennedy in Illinois... allegedly. They were added in there after they got the boxes to Cook County offices.
ConfusingJazz
Member
IDs aren't free, and you have to get them in person. This is a problem for old people, poor people, and for rural dwellers.
frankie_baby
Member
Funny how the republicans don't have a problem with counting fraud, you know what "won" George Bush his election
It's hard for a lot of people to find the time for a lot of things. This doesn't seem like a valid excuse.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You guys are going to be really upset when the Supremes rule on this one. Really upset.
yes
You have to register to vote. This has worked perfectly fine, we do not have rampant voter fraud.
The entire purpose of ID requirements for voting in the United States is to target and block voters that the people in charge do not want voting.
You mean everyone that had the requirements for a bank account have a bank account. Lots of people do not have a bank account.
"Voter fraud" is a dog whistle anyway. GOP voters aren't dumb, they know what the real strategy is. The quotes in the topic prove it.
TheContact
Member
Because typically people without some kind of photo ID aren't going to vote for republicans, so repubs want to deny the democratic vote.
No. They know that black, poor, disenfranchised and democratic voters are less likely to have photo id. And please, "conservative" GAF, do come in and refute this.
I'd LOVE to hear it.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
I'm getting a morning massage. I'll be back in about 40 minutes.
Alx
Member
How does it work though ? What prevents me from getting early at the voting booth and use your name to take your vote ? And how do you register without an ID, can't you just pretend to be anybody then, or even register multiple times ?
As a European having an official ID document for all important/official tasks seems natural, I think the issue in the US is that it isn't easy enough to have one provided, but you should be working on that.
You'd have to gamble that I don't show up later and find out my name has been used. Once again, we do not have rampant voter fraud. Recent investigations have revealed elections only having a single fraudulent voter.
There are other methods to prove your residency
You should read up on Jim Crow laws and why we as Americas give a strong side-eye to attempts at poll taxes and voter blocking like these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
Since voting laws have been used to surpress voters before, and it's the same damn people trying to do it now. Literally. Don't buy into it.
Make sure to relax and think of ways to make it sound like it's not racist or undemocratic. And don't forget we have stats on the actual prevalence of individual voter fraud.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
ha ha. Hey man. I'm back, relaxed and.... damn... that's why I joined a country club. Wow. No tipping allowed either.
If 1 voter in the entire country votes illegally, it's still illegal. If 2 voters vote illegally, it's still illegal. If 3 voters vote illegally, it's still illegal and jeopardizes the validity of an election. 3 is my line in the sand.
Anyway, can I start by asking you a few questions first?
Why is the US exceptional in that it shouldn't require voter identification? For example, why does Canada? Why does Mexico? Why do most democracies require verification of identity?
If it's because of lack of ID, then isn't the solution to provide some sort of ID to low income people for free or extremely low cost? Would you support that?
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