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Utah governor signs church-backed anti-discrimination bill
- Thread starter CrazyDude
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Escape Goat
Member
And were still not happy apparently.
Speaking as an active Latter-Day Saint, I'm happy that this happened, even if I'm still kinda wondering if the Church's motivation wasn't just "we don't want discriminated against, so we'd better cover some bases."
That said, I'm still somewhat troubled by the close relationship between the Church and Utah state politics. Not just because the Church has so much influence on Utah state politics, but because that door swings both ways and it can be really weird to sit in a congregation in Brazil, Germany or China and hear about this or that issue that's really only a big deal in Utah.
But anyway, I'm still glad this happened. I hope it's a part of a larger shift for the Church away from where it was in the days of Prop 8, but having just spent the last 4 years at BYU-Idaho I think it'll take a good long while for that shift to happen on every level.
That said, I'm still somewhat troubled by the close relationship between the Church and Utah state politics. Not just because the Church has so much influence on Utah state politics, but because that door swings both ways and it can be really weird to sit in a congregation in Brazil, Germany or China and hear about this or that issue that's really only a big deal in Utah.
But anyway, I'm still glad this happened. I hope it's a part of a larger shift for the Church away from where it was in the days of Prop 8, but having just spent the last 4 years at BYU-Idaho I think it'll take a good long while for that shift to happen on every level.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Disgusting. "Compromise"...the church didn't compromise shit. The discrimination will continue, but now it's state endorsed.
Of course not. Religious exemptions in schools? Hospitals?
Of course not. Religious exemptions in schools? Hospitals?
Fenderputty
Banned
They look slightly better than Alabama before their respective state laws are found unconstitutional on a federal level this summer.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
So, if I start a religion that has enough followers that it gets tax exempt status, that says black people are an abomination, I can refuse them access to my establishment?
Perhaps I should not be giving Rudy Giuliani ideas...
Edit: For that mater, what if someone is following the old testament and views black people as slaves, and won't serve them for that reason?
Edit 2: The point of this post, if you can discriminate based on religion against immutable characteristics, what limit is there? If the limit is LGBT, why is that limit acceptable?
Perhaps I should not be giving Rudy Giuliani ideas...
Edit: For that mater, what if someone is following the old testament and views black people as slaves, and won't serve them for that reason?
Edit 2: The point of this post, if you can discriminate based on religion against immutable characteristics, what limit is there? If the limit is LGBT, why is that limit acceptable?
Fenderputty
Banned
You are?
Escape Goat
Member
Youre not going to get anything better, especially in Utah. Exemptions for religious-based schools and hospitals i can live with. I wouldnt want to work in a hostile work environment anyways. ill take this over no protections for now.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
Well I mean it sounds like the alternative (pre- "compromise") was that it was legal to discriminate in regards to housing and employment and now it's not. It's a clear win, just not a total one.
This is a good argument for why states rights is bullshit.
Happy with what? Pretend anti discrimination that still enshrines discrimination as law?
Religious exceptions are ridiculous.
Discrimination is wrong. Period. Full stop. The end. Case Closed. The closer. Cold case.
Escape Goat
Member
Youre ignoring the reality of the situation. Youre never going to get full equality in red states. So now there are more LGBT protections than there were before. The only way we move forward is to wait for public views to evolve or hope for a liberal majority in the Supreme court.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Certainly one way of looking at it, we need a federal level bill but that won't happen till 2017 at the earliest.
Even a federal bill is going to offer religious exemptions.
Bornstellar
Member
The exemption is to allow the Church to continue requiring it's employees to adhere to its standards I assume. It considers its employees as ambassadors.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I don't know what makes you so sure of that, if we don't offer religious exceptions for other types of discrimination, why start now?
How does that explain the hospitals? America doesn't actually have religious hospitals, does it?
Bornstellar
Member
I got news for you bud.
Something like 15% of all Hospitals are run by the Catholic Church in the US. There really is no difference in them. Most people would not even know they were in one.
They're taking about religion owned schools and hospitals
PaulExcellent
Member
I hate saying it, but in this state, it's better than nothing.
I fucking hate Utah and its church-based mentality.
I fucking hate Utah and its church-based mentality.
The Faceless Master
Member
so.
close.
Because the version of ENDA that has been introduced every session has had pretty broad religious carve outs.
This is a good step in the right direction that will be a huge help to the everyday LGBT person in Utah. This actually makes Utah's non-discrimination policies towards LGBT persons more progressive than in states such as New York (where only public employment is covered) and New Hampshire (where gender identity isn't covered). See:
Key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_employment_discrimination_in_the_United_States
Or Housing Laws (same key):
This is huge.
I'd have to read it, but I assume it means religious schools and hospitals. The Church's largest university is in Utah, and I assume they would've had that in mind during discussions of schools. BYU and all other BYU branches (Idaho and Hawaii) have an "Honor Code" or code of conduct students are expected to abide by. I would assume that the protection is for the sake of protecting that.
Umm... No, we definitely aren't. Theres a hand waving of discrimination RIGHT THERE in a law.
It's all sort of minor stuff -- Catholic Schools already have pretty broad authority over who they and cannot fire, even in the most progressive states, for instance. I know less about religious-based hospitals, but I would assume it's similar to Catholic schools. Not much has changed here regarding the law.
And since SB322 didn't pass, there is no public accommodations component to this compromise that would extend to persons in private companies, ie. wedding vendors or florists.
The gay groups came out way out on top of this "compromise". All that really was won for religious liberties was that clerks can refuse to perform marriages for gay couples but they still have to find someone who will sign/perform their marriages. So, like, almost nothing chances. Except for gay people who now have unprecedented protections in the state of Utah.
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