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[ge-man]

God I hated being in those "gifted" classes. Sure the level of learning was turned up a few notches but they forget these kids also need to develop valuable social skills, something they can't do very well when thrown into classes with geeks and dorks.

I loved my class, but I think that had a lot to do with my teacher. He had a huge interest in history and media, so the class curriculum was leaned towards those areas.

As for Jessica, I seriously doubt the IQ. However, I do think that some of her ditzy behavior is exaggerated at times.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I wonder if her mom is dumbing it up for the MTV show also, because whenever she's on she doesn't seem to be that much better than Jessica.

 

[Loki]

I think some of you put too much weight in IQ tests

People do change however.

If you're referring to me, then let me say that I actually don't put too much stock in them in terms of always predicting who the "smarter" person is, but I do know that they are valuable analytical tools simply because they are correlated strongly with a number of other desirable traits and situations. So, whatever the IQ test may be measuring, it behooves one to score better on it if one can; I know of not one person-- even those who tend to discredit IQ tests-- who would prefer to score lower on one themselves.


And btw, there is a ~8-10 point fluctuation either way in IQ scores over the course of one's lifetime after age 5-6 or so. So if you score 140 when you're 7, it's not likely that you'll score above a 150 when you're 19...but neither will you ever dip below 130, except in extreme cases.


As for myself, well, despite my feeling that it is valuable in some way, I'm not sure what to make of IQ-- some of the brightest and most capable people I've ever met have received a 120 on the IQ test (one standard deviation above the average, but still not terribly uncommon), whereas some of those who've received a 140+ (including some of the people we tested) baffled me with their lack of critical thinking/interpersonal skills, so I dunno. It also doesn't hold in individual cases; there are people out there with 140+ IQ driving taxis (like my father), and there are those with <130 IQ running Fortune 500 companies, I can almost guarantee you. So although these things are correlated, they reflect only group trends.

Questions as to its validity notwithstanding, IQ tests are the single best diagnostic tool in a psychologist's arsenal when measuring intelligence. So, for now at least, we'll have to live with them.

 

[bionic77]

As I understand this, this proves once and for all that Jessica Simpson has a higher IQ then Jordan and thus:

Simpson > Jordan.

 

[Chrono]

I'm still a genius, though, so it's all good.

And no, you can't raise your IQ. It measures your natural ability to gain knowledge in relation to your age. So you ability will always increase, but it will always stay in the same proportion with your age. I know I got the same score at age 7 that I got at age 20.

Sorry, "genius" ( ), you can raise your IQ a lot.

My cousin has a PhD from the biggest French university (suborn or something..) and has worked with DOZENS of specialized people in this filed. She also published many articles. I know this women and she knows nothing but her work. She can't sit idle in a living room without solving a mathematical puzzle or thinking about something to "improve" herself.

Now what she tells me is that yes, not anybody can become Einstein. However, there's tremendous potential for each brain. The brain is a muscle and it can be improved. Play chess every day for a year and take a test-- see how much better you got. After that year your brain's mathematical ability OVERALL improved because while you practiced chess you practiced solving complex algorithms while calculating move possibilities. She says the latest research shows that even men of 40 years of age can improve too (which was thought to be not true).

Also, she says there's also the factor of interest. You know when you play a game and you’re so into it that a family member has to call your name several times before you recognize him/her? You are so focused on what you are doing that you're loosing the sense of things around you more and more. If you can "trigger" that mental state when doing other things, that in itself will improve your abilities greatly since you’re using more out of your brain.

I can't remember all the stuff she told me since it was a long time ago (high school) but it really does seem like common sense and that women knows what she's talking about. At least judging by her 100 k + cars and the massive amount of money she gave to her brothers and sisters all made from her work (she works several jobs, professor, research, etc...).

 

[Loki]

Not to be too blunt about it, but in most (i.e., 99%) of cases, one cannot improve one's IQ by, say, 30 points from age 12 to 20. What your cousin means by a "lot" may be the 8-10 points I mentioned (which is half a standard deviation, so it's not like it's insignificant or anything), but I dunno. I do know, however, that I've read several journal articles which say roughly the same thing, and both my cognitive psych professor and the head of the psych department at my university said as much themselves. But perhaps she's doing some cutting-edge research into what factors would improve IQ and she's gotten some great results...I wouldn't know. There have been studies which examined some of the sorts of activities you've mentioned and their effect on IQ, and, yes, they have been shown to be beneficial-- but usually within the 8-10 point (maybe it was 8-12, now that I think about it) range. Also, performance on IQ tests can be improved through practice (either explicit practice or simply by taking many IQ tests and familiarizing oneself with the format); one can view chess, or perhaps playing logic games such as analogies, as a sort of implicit practice in a sense (chess less so, as it seems to be improving global mathematical functioning rather than performance on a specific mathematical/spatial task). Who knows.


All I know is that it doesn't change the fact that MetatronM is a <wait for it>....genius. MWAHAHAHAHAAAA!

 

[Chrono]

Not to be too blunt about it, but in most (i.e., 99%) of cases, one cannot improve one's IQ by, say, 30 points from age 12 to 20. What your cousin means by a "lot" may be the 8-10 points I mentioned (which is half a standard deviation, so it's not like it's insignificant or anything), but I dunno. I do know, however, that I've read several journal articles which say roughly the same thing, and both my cognitive psych professor and the head of the psych department at my university said as much themselves. But perhaps she's doing some cutting-edge research into what factors would improve IQ and she's gotten some great results...I wouldn't know. There have been studies which examined some of the sorts of activities you've mentioned and their effect on IQ, and, yes, they have been shown to be beneficial-- but usually within the 8-10 point (maybe it was 8-12, now that I think about it) range. Also, performance on IQ tests can be improved through practice (either explicit practice or simply by taking many IQ tests and familiarizing oneself with the format); one can view chess, or perhaps playing logic games such as analogies, as a sort of implicit practice in a sense (chess less so, as it seems to be improving global mathematical functioning rather than performance on a specific mathematical/spatial task). Who knows.

OK. Everybody here is talking about IQ as some kind of indication of "intelligence." Let's forget about IQ a little. Let's say you're a college student that wants to improve his logical/mathematical abilities (left side of brain is it?). How much do you think they can improve themselves? While I'm not studying this at college like you are, I think it's been established that "smarter" people have more neurological connections between their brain cells right? Also, in studies that studied smart and talented people, scans of their brains showed they have more activity in their brains then people not as smart. Another thing is that 50-70% (not sure about that) of those connections are made when you're 2-5/8 years old.


What this means is that:

1) if the majority of your brains "wiring" is made during your childhood, then an upbringing that emphasizes education will establish more "connections" then one that doesn't. So people are not "born" with IQ 120 or 130. Yes some kids already have more connections then others and score higher, that's common sense but the point is that at that stage the potential is enormous.

2) You can still make more "connections" when older. It gets harder and harder until it stops and you can't improve but in the window which you can you have that ability to improve. Studies of musicians showed they are more developed in the brain part that is concerned with music and that they have more sensitive nerves at their fingertips for example. They were not born like that-- in those studies it showed that with practice many can improve their connections and nerves and that even the musicians themselves will LOSE a part of their abilities of they don't practice regularly.

All I know is that it doesn't change the fact that MetatronM is a <wait for it>....genius. MWAHAHAHAHAAAA!

He's a One Piece fan, so he's a genius be default.

 

[Loki]

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've stated, but I should make a few corrections:

First, I've heard/read that the amount of neural connections made by age 5-8 is more on the order of 70-90% of our eventual total. Whether that's true or not, who knows.

Also, yes, "smart" people show more activity in general in certain brain regions (and do have a greater number of neural connections), but expertise and experience actually causes a decrease in activity in regions associated with specific cognitive tasks (say, playing Tetris or reading philosophy), which is the result of better focus.

Lastly, I never meant to suggest that anybody was "born" with a certain IQ; by age 8, however, it's pretty much set within 8-12 points or so. The other effects you mention, such as for music, may be true, but those are for tasks, not general intelligence. Keep in mind that IQ is related to age (mental age/actual age X 100), and so nobody is saying that a nine year-old with a 150 IQ will be able to discuss philosophy or mathematical theory with an educated 21 year-old who also has a 150 IQ. It's all relative to others who are your own age (and thus are, presumably, at a similar educational level).


Oh yeah-- and it's the right side of the brain which controls mathematical/spatial ability, by and large.

 

[Chrono]

I'm a bit sensitive right now about this whole IQ thing because I don't want to belive I'll spend the next 3 years studing engineering just to end up doing a low job that has nothing to do with designing or creating anything worthy. >__<

I have a plan that starts after I finish this summer course. I'll go ahead and finish off calculus 2 and 3 before the fall and then learn as much mathematics as possible on my own. I'm talking about everything from schaum's outlines to linear algebra to books on introductions to probem solving and proofs. After a good 12-15 books and A LOT of probem solving I want to pick up any book that has probems from the mathematical olympics and try to solve them. I don't care if I don't finish them in 4 hourse like the contenstants-- I just want to know that I can "see" the answers and actually solve anything on that level. Anybody can get an A in a college math course if you just study hard enough for it.. I want to see if I can "learn" to solve things "out of the box" on a high level. I waisted all that time I had in high school but there's nothing I can do then to move forward as much as I can...

Oh yeah-- and it's the right side of the brain which controls mathematical/spatial ability, by and large.

Doh! I should've wrote that as "left or right brain?" or just never mentioned it.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Ted has the forum's best avatar. I have spoken.

 

[Chittagong]

Wow, I don't think I've ever created a topic that has resulted in as high a word count as this! Nearly essays. And the topic - Jessica Simpson, which kinda proves the point of her mom - Jessica = Intelligence.

 

[Loki]

I'm a bit sensitive right now about this whole IQ thing because I don't want to belive I'll spend the next 3 years studing engineering just to end up doing a low job that has nothing to do with designing or creating anything worthy. >__<

I have a plan that starts after I finish this summer course. I'll go ahead and finish off calculus 2 and 3 before the fall and then learn as much mathematics as possible on my own. I'm talking about everything from schaum's outlines to linear algebra to books on introductions to probem solving and proofs. After a good 12-15 books and A LOT of probem solving I want to pick up any book that has probems from the mathematical olympics and try to solve them. I don't care if I don't finish them in 4 hourse like the contenstants-- I just want to know that I can "see" the answers and actually solve anything on that level. Anybody can get an A in a college math course if you just study hard enough for it.. I want to see if I can "learn" to solve things "out of the box" on a high level. I waisted all that time I had in high school but there's nothing I can do then to move forward as much as I can...

Well, best of luck to you with that. You shouldn't be discouraged no matter what your IQ score is, because from my experience and observation, a person with, say, a 120 IQ who consistently applies and pushes themselves will go a HECK of a lot farther in life than a slacker with a 150. A person with a 120 IQ (one entire SD above the average) can gain competence in just about any field; sure, they'll seldom be the ones advancing the field, or postulating new theorems, but then again, look at how incredibly rare that is in itself. In my view, intelligence is not something which should be used a basis for comparison between people, as a lot of it is either innate (in terms of capacity), or has to do with factors often beyond one's control (upbringing, educational opportunities etc.).

Don't sweat it, dude-- you'll be fine. I'm sure everything will come back to you if you were competent at it at one point.

 

[MrAngryFace]

IQ tests are for idiots.

I wanted to say something really cool and quotable, but thats what it boils down to.

 

[Loki]

A few things:

Connections in your brain don't stop forming until you die. When you're quite old, they form more slowly, but they never stop completely.

When you're a small child, most of what's happening in your brain is pruning of connections, rather than the formation of new ones. You start out with jillions of connections.

Good point.

Chrono, don't worry about your IQ score. It's not going to have any bearing on your future job or happiness. If you want to improve your skills in specific areas, great! Go for it! That can definitely help you out in getting a good job. But raising your IQ score? Who cares? An employer is not going to ask you for your IQ score, and then not hire you if its too low. That just doesn't happen.

Exactly.

Deep down inside, I know that I'm probably the smartest person ever to exist.

See, now you've got it-- COCKY & FUNNY. Well, at least the "cocky" part. J/k btw-- you're clearly very intelligent, though obviously you don't need validation.

 

[Dreamfixx]

God I hated being in those "gifted" classes. Sure the level of learning was turned up a few notches but they forget these kids also need to develop valuable social skills, something they can't do very well when thrown into classes with geeks and dorks.

So true.

 

[ballhog]

Some of those nerdy chicks were hot, I was just too wrapped up in the bullshit highschool popularity contest, which I was losing anyway, to do anything about it.

 

[The Bookerman]

I bet her mom's talkin about Jessica's SAT's score, not her IQ score.

 

[Pimpwerx]

God I hated being in those "gifted" classes. Sure the level of learning was turned up a few notches but they forget these kids also need to develop valuable social skills, something they can't do very well when thrown into classes with geeks and dorks.

No kidding. But you can get the best of both worlds. I was in all Honors classes, but I also hung out a lot with the remedials kids. Part of it is wanting to be the smartest person in a given group, so I tend to shy away from the smartasses. But also, it's just that some of the Honors kids were super-dorks. But I will admit, some of the best times I had was sitting in the back of class with my best friend trying to outdo each other with our "creations". I mean, like "designing" a sub made of metallic hydrogen, or designing flying body spacecraft. My best friend was the smartest person I think I ever met, and we dorked it up good in some classes. But if it wasn't for him and his obsession with all things science, I don't think I would know half of what I do now. Those Honors and Gifted programs keep smart kids from stagnating. My HS has since dropped all such programs, and it pisses me off. There are some really smart kids there just spinning their wheels, and it's gonna cost them later on. Every kid should have a chemistry and/or electronics set when growing up, and legos...my God, the importance of legos cannot be overlooked. It's like the first design course you ever take. PEACE.

 

[Loki]

...my God, the importance of legos cannot be overlooked. It's like the first design course you ever take. PEACE.

Amen, brother...amen. Legos >>> *