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Venezuela plans to introduce supermarket fingerprinting to prevent buying too much

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benjipwns

Banned
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-28891292
President Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela has announced a mandatory fingerprinting system in supermarkets to combat food shortages and smuggling.

He said the system would stop people from buying too much of a single item.

But the opposition in Venezuela rejected the plan, saying the policy treated all Venezuelans as thieves.

Critics said fingerprinting consumers of staple products was tantamount to rationing and constituted a breach of privacy.

Up to 40% of the goods which Venezuela subsidises for its domestic market are smuggled to Colombia, where they are sold at much higher prices, the authorities say.

"The amount of staples smuggled to Colombia would be enough to load the shelves of our supermarkets," Gen Efrain Velasco Lugo, a military spokesman, told El Universal newspaper earlier this week.

The opposition blames what it says are the failed left-wing policies of the past 15 years - initiated by late President Hugo Chavez - for the country's economic crisis.

Dissatisfaction with the shortage of many staples, as well as rampant crime and high inflation, led thousands of people in the western Venezuelan states of Tachira and Merida to take to the streets in January.

Earlier they introduced an ID card to try and prevent more than once a week shopping:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/04/venezuela-queues-food-ration-cards
Venezuelans queued on Friday to register for an electronic card system designed to end food shortages that have plagued the country – but which some fear may be the thin end of the rationing wedge.

The ID card, introduced this week, will limit Venezuelans to once-a-week shopping and will set off an alarm to halt any transaction if a purchaser breaks the rules. The government wants to prevent individual shoppers from "over-buying" in a country hit by acute shortages of basic items including milk, sugar and toilet paper. Critics say it is an admission of failure of economic policy in one of the world's big oil-producing nations.

"The government needs to control the hoarders. They have made this worse. But if there weren't shortages there wouldn't be hoarders. We are trapped," says Jose Diaz, a 65-year-old construction worker.

By keeping a record of what is purchased and limiting shopping trips, the electronic card is supposed to curb hoarding and prevent speculative shoppers from buying to resell at a profit. But the larger aim is to halt the huge outflow of food to neighbouring Colombia, where it sells for up to 10 times as much. It is estimated that almost 40% of Venezuela's food is transported illegally across the border.

According to the food minister, Félix Osorio, registering for the card will not be mandatory and regular users may still shop at the network of subsidised food chains. But as with many customer loyalty programmes, cardholders will benefit from even lower prices, extra offers and even enter a raffle to win one of 500 houses in Venezuela's largest public housing programme.

Outside the Bicentenario megastore in Plaza Venezuela, a middle-class neighbourhood in the capital, Caracas, the line stretches for several blocks. Some of the people here have come to register for the new system; others simply want to buy food. Most of them have already been waiting for several hours. They are desperate over what they say is a lifetime spent standing in queues. The card, they hope, will put an end to a perverse cycle they say they cannot bear for much longer.

...

After queuing for almost three hours, Pascual Sandoval is just three blue plastic chairs away from registering for the "card for secure supply" as it is being called. Inside, government employees will ask him for his name, home address, job and salary, and if he owns a home or vehicle. They will even scan his thumbprint. "It is a needed step to stop food contraband and speculators who have bled us dry of food," says Sandoval, a retired stonemason.

Like Sandoval, Romero blames the shortage of basic shopping items on speculative shoppers who buy milk, sugar and toilet paper at the subsidised store to resell in their street stalls at three times the price.

His fellow queuers share his enthusiasm for the shopping card, but are not as confident that it alone will solve the shortages or the ensuing long lines. For many the root causes run deeper. Critics say the new system will do little to galvanise the productive parts of an economy in which people see no point in producing goods that are then subject to price controls and end up being loss-making.

Asdrúbal Oliveros, an economist, argues that the government should use the new system to slowly lift the price controls while maintaining subsidies for the poorest sectors of society by way of direct cash handouts through debit cards that cover only food purchases.

"The mistake of these price controls is that the subsidy doesn't go directly to the families and instead it subsidises the product. This breeds scarcity, contraband and the long queues. This appears to be the government's resistance," said Oliveros, who is director of Caracas-based consultancy Ecoanalitica.

Fiercer critics say the card is the most blatant sign that Venezuela's economy has spiralled out of control. For some, the recent move is nothing short of a Cuban-style rationing card that will sooner or later hamper citizens' economic freedoms.

"I don't want to be told what I can buy and when I can buy it. That's what I work for. I am a revolutionary but I didn't go into this wanting it to become Cuba," says Mercedes Azuaje as she exits a corner shop with an almost empty bag of groceries.
 

HUELEN10

Member
I do not wanna judge another country based on what goes on in my country and its own policies, but dammit, if this happened in the states, there would be RIOTS. I think this is bogus, even with the smuggling/hoarding concerns, there has to be a better way!
 

JDSN

Banned
The trade is a fucked up situation between two countries and Ive known people in my region being personally affected by it, La Guajira, where the main trade is done is practically a frontier town that is actually ruled by criminals of both sides of the border.

So basically, this wont do shit besides making me laugh when someone comes and tries to defend this.
 
This is basically like a more more complex version of ration cards?

I wager 2 days before someone in politics tries to abuse the system.
 

ramuh

Member
Hmm. I've followed Venezuela closely since 2008 and this is expected. Surprised it didn't happen sooner TBH. It's crazy how they have the Army on the border to prevent their own people from smuggling into Columbia to get some extra cash. I just think of the subsidy cost.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Hmm. I've followed Venezuela closely since 2008 and this is expected. Surprised it didn't happen sooner TBH. It's crazy how they have the Army on the border to prevent their own people from smuggling into Columbia to get some extra cash. I just think of the subsidy cost.
But if they lift price controls then the price will rise!!!
 

Zolf

Member
Nope, it's not our stupid economic policies that are the problem, it's those damn people with their human nature. People acting in their own best interests? That's just a fairy tale created by the capitalists to subjugate the proletariat.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Nope, it's not our stupid economic policies that are the problem, it's those damn people with their human nature. People acting in their own best interests? That's just a fairy tale created by the capitalists to subjugate the proletariat.
They only aren't working because of hoarders, wreckers and American saboteurs. Once those are gotten rid of, then things will work out.
 

DSKMan

Banned
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.
 

JDSN

Banned
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.

That last statement kind made me doubt this was sarcasm, you are being sarcastic, right?
 
so they are trying to solve a problem that comes from issues outside of the country by fingerprinting citizens?

if you can think that you get cheaper stuff at home and sell it in Colombia at a higher price for profit, sound like someone just has good business sense to me
 
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.
Lol, no.
 

benjipwns

Banned
so they are trying to solve a problem that comes from issues outside of the country by fingerprinting citizens?

if you can think that you get cheaper stuff at home and sell it in Colombia at a higher price for profit, sound like someone just has good business sense to me
It's that they have price controls. So using made up numbers, when there actually is say potatoes you can buy them for $1 and then resell them for $5. When the "actual price" of potatoes might be $3.
 
Blanket subsidies of food and other items has always been problematic due to issues like this. If they scrapped the subsidies and replaced them with a comprehensive welfare system for those on low incomes, this wouldn't happen.
 

Ikael

Member
I have yet to see a price control scheme that it is even remotely sustainable or enforceable, so I am not surprised to see Maduro resorting to these type of stupid measures. Chavismo is not an evil regime, but just a plain retarded system. I can't envision Venezuela surviving to it more than a couple of years.
 

pje122

Member
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.
kKYEbi9.gif
 

TomServo

Junior Member
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.

LMAO
 
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.
Real Venezuelans™
 

pulga

Banned
Real Venezuelans

icanticanticanticanticant

this reminds me of the "real hondurans" back in 2009
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
In the end do the people have what they need? Yes they do. In the end does the work for the people and not the rich capitalist? Yes it does. Do the real Venezuelans love the government? Yes they do.

Chavez led a revolution of change, and change takes time to finish. In the end this will lead to greater prosperity for the real Venezuelans.
I'd clean this post with toilet paper, but sadly there's a shortage in Venezuela :/
 

mantidor

Member
Whats going on in Colombia that makes this such an issue?

It's Maduro's scapegoat to the absolute failure of their system.

Let's say that smuggling is really that terrible, it doesn't explain why freaking Caracas, several miles from the border, is also understocked.

You have to line up to buy toilet paper, that alone should tell you how things are over there.

Truth is price control of the kind implemented in Venezuela is divorced from reality. Forcing ridiculously low prices drives companies to produce less, with less production everyone hoards because you never know when markets will be restocked, then bam, you have to line up to buy toilet paper.
 

benjipwns

Banned
everyone hoards because you never know when markets will be restocked, then bam, you have to line up to buy toilet paper.
You left out the part where the government raids some of the "hoarders" and "price gougers" and then leaves all the food to spoil and rot in a guarded warehouse. (After taking a cut, of course.)
 

mantidor

Member
You left out the part where the government raids some of the "hoarders" and "price gougers" and then leaves all the food to spoil and rot in a guarded warehouse. (After taking a cut, of course.)

Seriously.

Retarded economic policies + corruption = madness and chaos.
 

FuuRe

Member
Do fake venezuelans even exist?

Or you have to pass some sort of ritual in order to be a real one?

On topic i don't think you can get surprised with Venezuela anymore, if anything shold be done and if the real problem is the "migration" of food, measures should be taken against the smugglers and not to the "real venezuelans" (hahahah did you all just saw what i did?)
 

DSKMan

Banned
You left out the part where the government raids some of the "hoarders" and "price gougers" and then leaves all the food to spoil and rot in a guarded warehouse. (After taking a cut, of course.)

Those who hoard what belongs to the people, and remember all wealth belongs to all of the people, are among the worst criminals. They are essentially enemies of the people. Food is also a resource of the people, owned by all of people, so the hoarding of food is no less a crime.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Those who hoard what belongs to the people, and remember all wealth belongs to all of the people, are among the worst criminals. They are essentially enemies of the people. Food is also a resource of the people, owned by all of people, so the hoarding of food is no less a crime.
But what happens when "the people" hoard food in a guarded warehouse until it rots?
 

mantidor

Member
The roting sounds like propaganda. Do you have legit source by the people?

With this loophole you are going to ignore all evidence, aren't you? Like I won't even bother linking anything, because you will say it's not "from the people".
 

BadHand

Member
That last statement kind made me doubt this was sarcasm, you are being sarcastic, right?


Chavez lifted millions of poor out of poverty and was adored by the majority of Venezuelans, it was a slim minority of the very vocal rich that disliked him.

Venezuela isn't a "socialist paradise" as some people have sarcastically pointed out in a pathetic way to discredit what Chavez achieved, but it is much better than the hell it was.
 

mantidor

Member
Chavez lifted millions of poor out of poverty and was adored by the majority of Venezuelans, it was a slim minority of the very vocal rich that disliked him.

Venezuela isn't a "socialist paradise" as some people have sarcastically pointed out in a pathetic way to discredit what Chavez achieved, but it is much better than the hell it was.

Actually crime and the economy are in its worst shape in years, including far before Chavez. It's not much better than "the hell it was", because the hell is right now.
 

benjipwns

Banned
The roting sounds like propaganda. Do you have legit source by the people?
Is this enough of a source by the people for you?
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5422
One such citizen named Heartfriend Peña told the Venezuelan alternative news agency Aporrea on Thursday that he was fired from his job at the state-owned Vexima company after he reported the existence of 414 containers of unaccounted food in PDVAL storage facilities.

Vexima provides export, import, storage, and distribution services to PDVAL and other state-owned food companies. The company told Peña he was fired for abandoning his post, but Peña said he was on leave and protected by the Social Security law.

According to Peña, his firing was an act of “political retaliation” by corrupt company officials who represent the right wing, profit-seeking mafia within the state-owned food sector. Aporrea channeled his message to President Hugo Chavez, who has repeatedly declared himself in favor of workers in struggles against the management of both privately and publicly owned companies:

“Mr. President, I continue being Chavista [a Chavez supporter], but this situation that occurred here should be investigated in depth. Even though I won’t be working here I would like the company to be investigated. The management took this initiative against me for having made an accusation, and that means that they have their hands immersed in the case,” Peña pleaded.

Throughout the past week, thousands of workers from PDVAL and Venezuela’s state oil company, PDVSA, which administers PDVAL, held marches in various cities to express their support for government programs that guarantee access to affordable food.

“PDVSA workers are with the revolution and with Chavez and we will continue moving forward. Things must be put in context. The issue at hand is joining with the people to combat the oligarchy that is in the large industrial sectors of the country,” said Energy and Petroleum Minister Rafael Ramirez during a march with 8,000 oil industry workers.

Henrique Salas Romer, the governor of Carabobo state and a leader of the anti-Chavez opposition, said the PDVAL scandal is a sign of the incompetence of the Chavez government.

“While food rots in a PDVAL storage facility, the national government directs its actions toward looking for a guilty party, when it is the guilty party,” said Salas Romer in public comments. “It is unacceptable that so many tons of essential products are lost when housewives cannot find them in the markets and the prices soar,” he said.

National Assembly Deputy Lisandro Cabello said such critiques coming from the right-wing opposition are hypocritical, because the opposition in team with the nation’s largest private business chamber, Fedecamaras, led a coup d’état in 2002 and a general strike in 2003 that shut down the country’s oil industry and caused massive unemployment, economic contraction, and extreme scarcity of foods and other products.
It even properly blames the right-wing oligarch saboteurs running the state-owned companies, likely American supported, for the rotting! If only Chavez knew he could have rooted them out!

Chavez lifted millions of poor out of poverty and was adored by the majority of Venezuelans, it was a slim minority of the very vocal rich that disliked him.

Venezuela isn't a "socialist paradise" as some people have sarcastically pointed out in a pathetic way to discredit what Chavez achieved, but it is much better than the hell it was.
Venezuela was ahead of almost every other South American country in most every macroeconomic metric and has since fallen behind in nearly all of them. The entire region improved except Venezuela which stagnated. Despite the oil. And despite the democratic revolution by the people.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Chavez lifted millions of poor out of poverty and was adored by the majority of Venezuelans, it was a slim minority of the very vocal rich that disliked him.

Venezuela isn't a "socialist paradise" as some people have sarcastically pointed out in a pathetic way to discredit what Chavez achieved, but it is much better than the hell it was.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.


Oh my god.

This is amazing.

And I thought Skullface was the craziest defense force on GAF.
 
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